Does this mean I'm facially unnattractive?

[Just a Shot Away]

Oh dear. There's no coming back from that.

And yet, here I am...ready to carry you towards the truth once again albeit kicking and screaming like I always do, and in the end you will thank me.

This is an opinion. "Maybe I don't see it because I don't want to open my eyes to the truth?" WTF are you talking about dude? You sound like some kind of delusional prophet. What could I possibly have to gain from ignoring the "truth?" I'm a 7-8 on the looks scale and a fun guy to be around. Either way works for me.

Yes, it's my opinion that you don't want to see the truth. I have no idea why. If you're as good-looking as you claim to be, I see no reason to lie to yourself about looks not mattering. Oh wait wait wait...no, I get it now. Yes, I used to be in this same situation. You've been told you were good-looking throughout your whole life and gained confidence from this. You are able to get girls, and now prefer to think it's because of your looks (a trait that not everybody has) rather than confidence (a trait nearly everybody can gain) so you can feel more exclusive. Sort of a "members only" type deal.

The fact remains: women are famous for not knowing what they want. --- Basically "I have nothing to refute what you said, so I will restate my opinion."

No, I meant that you're trying to muck up the argument with irrelevant details. What it boils down to is that women don't know what they want and you think they do. That's the bottom line.

Wow. That's cynical. And I'm a cynical guy. But that's cynical to the point of willful and bitter ignorance.

Umm, it's pretty much accepted as a universal truth on the beltway that Hillary wouldn't have gotten anywhere in politics if it wasn't her husband. This isn't exactly an inflammatory earth-shattering statement. What, you think Ashlee Simpson would've made it in the music industry if it wasn't for Jessica? You can't afford to be this naive.

So you think that. Interesting opinion

You say this as if I believe everything that comes out of my mouth is gospel and the unvarnished truth. I have no problem admitting that a lot of what I say is my own personal opinion. However, the fact that looks not mattering to women isn't a subjective, debatable issue. That's just science. Pretty basic science, at that.

Lol let's get this straight... I'm not a "looks matter" guy. I'm not an anything guy

So you have no belief system, huh man? That's uh...interesting. You claim not to stand on any side of the line in the sand, and yet you relentlessly try to go upstream on this issue. It seems to me that you have DEFINITELY taken a stand on this issue and that stand is that looks matter to women. I could be wrong, though!

Its 1. A different species operating on a survival-only basis. No recreational sex. 2. Women aren't choosing to mate when they're at a party. They're choosing to fvck. 3. The whole thing about an in-sustainable mate pairings doesn't apply to humans. Attractive men won't often sleep with ugly azs women. Usually fat ugly disgusting women can't GET attractive men. This is off the table.

1. Human beings are animals still operating on the most basic carnal instincts. Don't believe me? Take away electricity and gasoline from America for 1 week. Watch how "orderly and civil" our society is after that. 2. Why do women want to "fvck"? Because it feels good. Why? Because nature made it that way to encourage making more humans. Instincts. 3. We're talking about women choosing mates, not men. There. Now it's back on the table.

Obviously. Behavior is important. But the idea of behavior being important doesn't mean looks don't matter. They are not mutually exclusive.

Some guy (Tesl I think) questioned whether or not dominance was important to females. I just recopied the links because I don't feel like doing your Google-work for you.

hahaha, read that last excerpt carefully. Its saying what one woman finds good looking varies from the next woman. Guess what's being inherently acknowledged as mattering in there? Looks.

What? The quote said what "looks good genetically", not facially.

 

[Tesl]

Nope, I never questioned that. The sad thing about these threads is I actually sit on the "Looks aren't everything" side of the fence, but unfortunately JASA you take it to a mega extreme saying it doesn't matter at all. Its just not true.

Oh, and I've been driving around very drunk sluts for 2 1/2 years in a taxi...I haven't banged ONE. A good amount of these girls wouldn't shut up about how hot I am, either. So there must be something else needed even in this case.

I love this logic, it makes no sense. So a number of hot girls talk about how hot you are and basically make themselves available to you. You don't do anything about it for whatever reason - and then start saying "see!!! I turned down girls who thought I was hot, I just proved looks aren't important!". Did you only not bang them because you were worried it would prove your own theory wrong? Bizarre.

Good looks get your foot in the door (as it was in the above story) and make a woman immediately open to you. That is all, the rest has to be taken care of by confidence/game etc. An ugly taxi driver 20kg overweight with broken teeth wouldn't have had a chance from the beginning.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Nope, I never questioned that. The sad thing about these threads is I actually sit on the "Looks aren't everything" side of the fence, but unfortunately JASA you take it to a mega extreme saying it doesn't matter at all. Its just not true.

It matters a little bit. But then again, so does whether or not you prefer cinnamon gum or spearmint. I just don't understand why people feel the need to single out "looks" to start thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread after thread about this one topic, desperately trying to convince other people of this.

I love this logic, it makes no sense. So a number of hot girls talk about how hot you are and basically make themselves available to you. You don't do anything about it for whatever reason - and then start saying "see!!! I turned down girls who thought I was hot, I just proved looks aren't important!"

They DIDN'T make themselves available to me, that's the point. I didn't turn down any of these girls, because none of them offered anything to me. In my entire career of taxi driving, I've gotten one beej from a passenger, 2 phone numbers (one was from a chick that was so drunk that she gave it to me again the next time I picker her up), and one lay. There's cab drivers out there that take home a different chick every night. A chick telling you that you're "hot" is like a guy telling a girl that she's "funny" or has a "nice personality." Are you making yourself available to/hitting on a chick after you tell her this? Exactly.

An ugly taxi driver 20kg overweight with broken teeth wouldn't have had a chance from the beginning.

Maybe, maybe not. I've heard some pretty crazy stories from the old, fat, bald cabbies out here. Sure, they could be lying. But then again, so could Obama about being born in the United States.

 

[Tesl]

Okay, I think its about time this thread moves on from "looks matter" and get to "Lets teach JASA about social dynamics"

It matters a little bit. But then again, so does whether or not you prefer cinnamon gum or spearmint. I just don't understand why people feel the need to single out "looks"

I will tell you why they single out looks. Before you meet a girl for the first time, the ONLY thing she knows about you is what you look like. She doesn't know if you like spearmint gum, or about how confident you are, all she knows is what you look like.

This is really important, please try to understand.

Now, her feelings towards you this time are 100% driven from your appearance. There is nothing else to go on. If you look terrible, her initial interest level will be lower, and she won't make it easy for you to approach/talk to her. If she thinks you look terrific, she will smile at you and make it much easier, and you wont need to work as hard.

Now, is that everything? Of course its not, but it makes life a whole lot easier. Even if you look bad, if you demonstrate extremely high value to a girl she will get over that and consider you. Likewise, if you are socially hopeless like yourself, she will lose all interest despite your good looks.

So its as you say, its more about game and being a higher value alpha male. However, it is MUCH easier if you have a good appearance as that gets you in the door.

Do you understand or is this too complicated for you?

They DIDN'T make themselves available to me, that's the point. I didn't turn down any of these girls, because none of them offered anything to me.

If a girl tells me I'm "sooo hot" then I'm escalating immediately if I like her. Girls don't ask for phone numbers, that's the mans job. You just aren't taking the opportunities, because you are too stupid. Sorry.

In my entire career of taxi driving, I've gotten one beej from a passenger, 2 phone numbers (one was from a chick that was so drunk that she gave it to me again the next time I picker her up), and one lay. There's cab drivers out there that take home a different chick every night. A chick telling you that you're "hot" is like a guy telling a girl that she's "funny" or has a "nice personality." Are you making yourself available to/hitting on a chick after you tell her this? Exactly.

"Hot" is sexual, "nice personality" is not. Different things that you miss due to your social ineptitude.

Maybe, maybe not. I've heard some pretty crazy stories from the old, fat, bald cabbies out here. Sure, they could be lying. But then again, so could Obama about being born in the United States.

So what? outliers happen, are you not familiar with statistics? Lets assume everything is normally distributed to keep things simple, and that a 5/10 girl will most likely date a 5/10 guy. So what if you tell me that you see 10/10 girls with 5/10 guys all the time? That's fine, outliers happen, but it doesn't prove that our distribution is not valid. Most 10s are with other 10s. If you could somehow prove that a 5/10 guy is equally likely to date a 1, a 2, or a 10, then we would be onto something. That of course isn't the case though, which can be demonstrated by simply looking out the window.

 

[Ice882]

Oh man is this not worth my time. You're absurd, just know that.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

I will tell you why they single out looks. Before you meet a girl for the first time, the ONLY thing she knows about you is what you look like. She doesn't know if you like spearmint gum, or about how confident you are, all she knows is what you look like.

Ok, bad example. Why do people insist on singling out looks versus the color of your shirt? Both matter (to some extent, but not really), but people aren't starting endless threads about "Does wearing a red shirt matter??? If so, how much?!"

Do you understand or is this too complicated for you?

I understand why you think that me and 72 Nobel Prize winners think we're wrong, but we maintain our stance. Female animals look for qualities that indicate that the male can protect the nest. A female cannot gauge this by looking at a male's face.

You just aren't taking the opportunities, because you are too stupid. Sorry.

I'm "stupid" because I don't consider a girl remarking on a guy's looks an opportunity, huh? An interesting perspective. I mean, in theory merely SEEING a woman is an opportunity. You just think that a positive remark about something as inconsequential as a guy's looks somehow...makes it easier, or something...

"Hot" is sexual, "nice personality" is not. Different things that you miss due to your social ineptitude.

My point is that a girl telling a guy he's hot is NOT sexual due to the fact that chicks don't get wet by facial symmetry and muscles alone. Just like we don't get a hard-on from a chick that's really nice. That's why I say a guy that's "hot" is equivalent to a girl being "nice."

So what? outliers happen, are you not familiar with statistics?

Yes. These guys aren't outliers, though. The cabbies I mentioned were confident, alpha male type guys. It makes perfect sense that they're banging all sorts of broads in their taxis. The reason we see couples that most likely resemble their degree of physical attractiveness is a psychological issue. Confidence levels are usually proportional to one's physical attractiveness, at least among those who don't understand how sexual selection works. Ever notice how many dumbass frat guys have no problem pulling chicks? How about career criminals? Gangbangers? Exactly. Now, how about the guys in the chess club in high school? Computer programmers? Really smart guys. Terrible with chicks. Why is this? These guys are intelligent, understand how sexual selection works, and usually aren't all that attractive. All the puzzle pieces fall right into place when you look at the big picture. Being self-aware is a curse. It really is. I would kill to have your point of view. I really would give anything to believe that looks matter despite the last 150 years of research. I would trade this knowledge for a steady dose of poon any day of the week.

 

[Tesl]

Ok, bad example. Why do people insist on singling out looks versus the color of your shirt? Both matter (to some extent, but not really), but people aren't starting endless threads about "Does wearing a red shirt matter??? If so, how much?!"

Although red or blue may not matter, wearing styling clothes does matter. Infact, I include the colour of your shirt as "appearance" - hence its important as it completes the overall package.

I understand why you think that me and 72 Nobel Prize winners think we're wrong, but we maintain our stance.

Okay, I don't know how I can make this more clear. THE NOBEL PRICE WINNERS NEVER SAID THIS. YOU HAVE NOT CITED ANY EVIDENCE BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED. YOU CAN NOT QUOTE THIS AS FACT, BECAUSE ITS LYING.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU, AS I CANNOT PROVE A NEGATIVE.

Do you get it, yet????

I'm "stupid" because I don't consider a girl remarking on a guy's looks an opportunity, huh? An interesting perspective. I mean, in theory merely SEEING a woman is an opportunity. You just think that a positive remark about something as inconsequential as a guy's looks somehow...makes it easier, or something...

Yes absolutely I do. This is why I get laid frequently and you don't - because I actually understand social dynamics and the way women play this game. You are purposefully not playing the game properly because you are scared of proving your own position wrong. Which is hilarious, actually.

My point is that a girl telling a guy he's hot is NOT sexual due to the fact that chicks don't get wet by facial symmetry and muscles alone. Just like we don't get a hard-on from a chick that's really nice. That's why I say a guy that's "hot" is equivalent to a girl being "nice."

Exactly, you are ****blocking yourself so as not to lose face. Not much different than a christian refusing to believe their god may actually not exist.

I really would give anything to believe that looks matter despite the last 150 years of research. I would trade this knowledge for a steady dose of poon any day of the week.

Brilliant. Let me get this straight - you have decided yourself that looks don't matter - okay fine. You therefore think its all about game and improving yourself, and showing the confidence you 100% know is all that is required. And you don't do this why? Because you enjoy failing at life?

 

[IRKMAN]

You know whats the best. Feeling when A girl is with her bf and she stares at you.. awesome. I have been workin out for 2 years now so girls always check me out. love catching them in the act hehe