Does this mean I'm facially unnattractive?

[Just a Shot Away]

This is super in a vacuum and all, but every time I talk to a girl about this subject they tell me they'd rather hook up with the dude with the handsome face.

Oh, girls know what they want now? I've been out of the news loop for awhile, but it seems like such a complete turnaround in what we know about women today would still be huge, huge news. I mean, my last girlfriend dumped me for a convicted felon that beats her...yet, she never said that she looks for a "lengthy violent past" as criteria in a mate. Odd.

That's a true story, by the way. I'm not the only one, either. The most beautiful women in the world can be regularly seen with old, fat, bald men who either just got out of prison or only look like they did. I wonder if those chicks would say that they look for "fat guys" when asked.

 

[Ice882]

I mean, my last girlfriend dumped me for a convicted felon that beats her...yet, she never said that she looks for a "lengthy violent past" as criteria in a mate. Odd.

That's a true story, by the way. I'm not the only one, either. The most beautiful women in the world can be regularly seen with old, fat, bald men who either just got out of prison or only look like they did. I wonder if those chicks would say that they look for "fat guys" when asked.

You just compared liking a handsome face to enjoying domestic abuse. Solid. P.S. don't pick this line apart its not important or relevant.

and P.P.S maybe that ex-con dude was hotter than you.

Pretty women with less attractive guys does not equal women not caring about looks. I also don't see hundreds of ex-cons walking around with models in my town, either. I'm pretty sure your over-stating how often this happens by about a billion percent.

Here's the important part: your argument against what I just said is "women don't have any clue what they want, and are incapable of logic."

That's weak. My girlfriends all see cute guys at parties, flirt with them because they are good looking, fvck them and move on or get in a relationship with them. The slightly pudgy, dumpy kid in the corner gets no action. That kid was my friend Charlie until he started working out religiously, lost the fat off his face, and got a tan. Now he has girls approaching him and fvcking him. And yet, he hasn't changed at all on the inside. He's just "hot" now. Its not because he "has more confidence now" or anything like that. Many girls I know have developed a superficial attraction to him based only off his looks, gone over to him without knowing him, and flirted heavily with and then fvcked him.

Bottom line: my girlfriends tell all tell me they want hot guys. Then they go out and follow through on that by getting with hot guys. That pretty much proves they know what they want. Its not like girls are these fawning, delusional doe-eyed creatures who float along listlessly. That's a complete exaggeration of their behavior. Either your living in a lonely, hypothetical vaccuum, or the women you're around really suck @ss. I know only one girl who fits that awful, awful description.

 

[Tesl]

The reason I DO however call for a ban on these pitiful threads is because they're absolutely worthless and serve no purpose.

If that happened you would never have anything to talk about. It was you who wanted the thread to move in this direction and you that made it happen.

You are the most boring poster on this boards because you can't stop talking about the same boring subject. No wonder you never get laid.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

Here's the important part: your argument against what I just said is "women don't have any clue what they want, and are incapable of logic."

That's weak.

Weak or not, it's the truth. Men are rational, women are emotional. This is the way it's been since the dawn of the human race...like it or not. You know how if there's a celebrity at a club legions of girls fight over who gets to bang him? Now, how many chicks say "fame" when asked what they want? None. Exactly. How many girls say they want a dude to jam their johnsons down their throats to the point of drawing tears and smearing their makeup? Not very many, but plenty of girls subconsciously (or not) desire that. You give girls too much credit. They don't know what makes themselves tick. Pook would back me up on this.

My girlfriends all see cute guys at parties, flirt with them because they are good looking, fvck them and move on or get in a relationship with them.

So you assume, anyway.

The slightly pudgy, dumpy kid in the corner gets no action.

Neither does the Brad Pitt lookalike in the corner not talking to anybody. Those are Brad Pitt's words by the way, not mine. He got no play before he was famous. Let me ask you something. Did Charlie's sense of self-worth and confidence levels change at all after "becoming hot"? You say it's not because he has more confidence, but does he? Be honest. Because I'll tell you something. The idea of a girl approaching a dude and throwing herself at him just because he's tan and lean is ludicrous, especially if the dude still has no confidence. How big is your city, by the way? I'm just curious about your sample size that you're basing your dismissal of Darwin's theories on.

Its not like girls are these fawning, delusional doe-eyed creatures who float along listlessly. That's a complete exaggeration of their behavior. Either your living in a lonely, hypothetical vaccuum, or the women you're around really suck @ss. I know only one girl who fits that awful, awful description.

Well, the fact is that girls just simply aren't as sharp (in general) as men. I think that is actually a pretty good description of most. Their methods of attraction are much more profound, but that's about it.

If that happened you would never have anything to talk about. It was you who wanted the thread to move in this direction and you that made it happen.

You know, that's probably true. About never having anything to talk about, that is. People are so obsessed with trying to convince other people that their limited to the kind of girls they are able to obtain by their facial symmetry, that I'm constantly preoccupied with having to set the record straight and let impressionable AFC's know that they don't have to listen to that self-limiting filth. I don't like it when people deliberately try to say that the teachings of the DJ Bible are wrong, since it's helped so many. I didn't move the thread any way. Look at the thread's TITLE, ffs. It was a looks-matter thread from the very beginning.

You are the most boring poster on this boards because you can't stop talking about the same boring subject. No wonder you never get laid.

I'm not trying to entertain anybody. Nobody said learning is always fun and games. I do get laid occasionally, though. Refer back to the thread I started about the married girl that some people had BIG problems with me having sex with.

 

[zekko]

Sure, they're a factor. But the effect is negligible

It's good to see you admit they are a factor. How much of a factor is up to debate, although I wouldn't say their effect is negligible. I think there are a lot of factors at play that are more important than looks, but I'd say it's in the top ten somewhere.

There's also a question of what exactly "looks" means. I notice you seem to define it as something that you can't do anything about, like height and facial symmetry. If it's something like someone going from fat to slim, muscular, and toned, then you call that "appearance" instead. That may be so, maybe not. But the toned guy is going to have a "better looking" body than the fat guy, so I'm not so sure.

I agree with you that guys should not use their looks as an excuse not to get women. As long as a dude is average looking (and most guys are average looking), he should be able to increase his other attraction factors to get results.

Happy belated birthday, by the way.

Thanks.

 

[AAAgent]

Oh, girls know what they want now? I've been out of the news loop for awhile, but it seems like such a complete turnaround in what we know about women today would still be huge, huge news. I mean, my last girlfriend dumped me for a convicted felon that beats her...yet, she never said that she looks for a "lengthy violent past" as criteria in a mate. Odd.

That's a true story, by the way. I'm not the only one, either. The most beautiful women in the world can be regularly seen with old, fat, bald men who either just got out of prison or only look like they did. I wonder if those chicks would say that they look for "fat guys" when asked.

don't take this guy seriously. He criticizes everyone's comments and ask's the poster to defend themselves. When you do, he decides to ignore the defense because he refuses to admit he's wrong and then continues on asking you to defend your statements again or coming up with an answer completely irrelevant to the argument he made in the first place. Then when you own him, he says you are acting childish.

Just as bad as luke skywalker, can't help this guy. A guy who comes to not only bash other peoples advice but doesn't give any either.

 

[Ice882]

Wow. You're a slippery fella. When it comes down to it though you're argument is basically all girls are retarded and utterly out of touch with what they want and who they are. If you can believe that, I have some real women to show you.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

don't take this guy seriously. He criticizes everyone's comments and ask's the poster to defend themselves. When you do, he decides to ignore the defense because he refuses to admit he's wrong and then continues on asking you to defend your statements again or coming up with an answer completely irrelevant to the argument he made in the first place.

I never asked anybody to defend themselves. When I hear statements that are contradictory to the facts however, I welcome explanations and people's reasoning behind these statements. If I heard that someone thinks the moon is made of cheese, I would hear their reasoning out on that one, too. I also don't ignore any defense. If you have an example of where I have done this to show me, you may post it here.

Then when you own him, he says you are acting childish.

Wait, you "owned" me?

You posted this on September 13th:

Just A Come Shot Away---...chill there homie, i mean homo...If you're gay, that's cool man. Just go be gay with you're other gay friends...now fvck off or some other a$$hole that is actually willing to let you in.

So you "owned" me, and I was wrong for dismissing your remarks as "childish", huh? Interesting. Well, I guess you have your own definition of maturity.

A guy who comes to not only bash other peoples advice but doesn't give any either.

I'm not bashing anybody's advice. However, if someone happens to say something that is an outright lie and is of detriment to the person asking for help (such as suggesting that a poster can't get certain girls unless he gets plastic surgery or begins to deal drugs), I'll go ahead and step in. I won't apologize for that. In addition, I only give advice on what I know. I don't know very much about women so I don't give out advice on this topic unless I have extensive knowledge of the particular topic, such as whether or not you need to be good-looking to get girls.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

When it comes down to it though you're argument is basically all girls are retarded and utterly out of touch with what they want and who they are. If you can believe that, I have some real women to show you.

That's a side issue. Looks not being important to women is a fact, and is not up for debate. As far as all girls being retarded and out of touch with what they want, I suppose you could argue that. I personally believe that no girl will tell you that she wants an ex-con as a boyfriend, and yet we continually see gorgeous women on the arms of ex-cons. But yet somehow...they know what they want. It seems paradoxical to me, but I'm no physicist. Maybe you can help me with that one.

Look man, women are indecisive by nature. Ever heard the expression "It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind."? That saying didn't just pop out of thin air. The reason that men are given the societal roles to lead and make decisions is because WE are the decisive ones. Women need and CRAVE leadership. This stuff is all right there in the Bible. Even some of the looks-matter guys will back me up on this one. For you to sit there and say that women are rational creatures that feel attraction by choice, when it is healthy and logical to do so is to ignore profound differences in our genders and completely ignores the advances we've made in evolutionary psychology. The reality is that attraction is not a choice, and women are attracted to a wide variety of factors designed to override rational thought in favor of one universal, timeless goal: make more humans.

 

[AAAgent]

I never asked anybody to defend themselves. When I hear statements that are contradictory to the facts however, I welcome explanations and people's reasoning behind these statements. If I heard that someone thinks the moon is made of cheese, I would hear their reasoning out on that one, too. I also don't ignore any defense. If you have an example of where I have done this to show me, you may post it here.



Wait, you "owned" me?

You posted this on September 13th:



So you "owned" me, and I was wrong for dismissing your remarks as "childish", huh? Interesting. Well, I guess you have your own definition of maturity.



I'm not bashing anybody's advice. However, if someone happens to say something that is an outright lie and is of detriment to the person asking for help (such as suggesting that a poster can't get certain girls unless he gets plastic surgery or begins to deal drugs), I'll go ahead and step in. I won't apologize for that. In addition, I only give advice on what I know. I don't know very much about women so I don't give out advice on this topic unless I have extensive knowledge of the particular topic, such as whether or not you need to be good-looking to get girls.

don't even get me started cheese steak man.

 

[synergy1]

That's a side issue. Looks not being important to women is a fact, and is not up for debate. As far as all girls being retarded and out of touch with what they want, I suppose you could argue that. I personally believe that no girl will tell you that she wants an ex-con as a boyfriend, and yet we continually see gorgeous women on the arms of ex-cons. But yet somehow...they know what they want. It seems paradoxical to me, but I'm no physicist. Maybe you can help me with that one.

Look man, women are indecisive by nature. Ever heard the expression "It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind."? That saying didn't just pop out of thin air. The reason that men are given the societal roles to lead and make decisions is because WE are the decisive ones. Women need and CRAVE leadership. This stuff is all right there in the Bible. Even some of the looks-matter guys will back me up on this one. For you to sit there and say that women are rational creatures that feel attraction by choice, when it is healthy and logical to do so is to ignore profound differences in our genders and completely ignores the advances we've made in evolutionary psychology. The reality is that attraction is not a choice, and women are attracted to a wide variety of factors designed to override rational thought in favor of one universal, timeless goal: make more humans.

You have been going back and forth with these posters but I have yet to see any practical experience on your end. One poster goes on to describe how his female friends hook up with better looking dudes and you fall back to the logic that women don't know what they want. So if a women hooks up with a guy, you can still argue against them pursuing their desires since , 'they dont know what they want'. This is horrible logic by someone bereft of real life experience and trying to win an argument.

That said, allow me to retort with my own experiences in the not so distant past. I might overestimate my looks, and I am no model, but I stay in shape and have all my hair so I look respectable. A number of thursdays ago, I end up hooking up w/ a chick and getting her #. The next weekend, I end up getting a different chicks #. The week after that, I meet up with #2 and have some fun. A few days later, I pull another chick and go home w/ her. The common thread? they all tell me how hot I am. A chick who is into your body will feel you up and make you have to work so much less - less than when I wasn't in shape ( for a reference point).

I hate to say it but my style is pulling mad game right now. Helps my personality is okay too, but getting them interested is easy when you look/feel good. Sorry bro, but being in shape isn't a minor factor. If a chick sees a good looking dude, they will go for it. who the fvck am I to complain? I have chicks 9 years younger than I am asking for me.

Lesson here? Get in shape, smile, and go out and CRUSH EM!!!!! stop arguing stupid semantics like a desperate nerd and GET WORK DONE! Justashotaway , prove me wrong. Post your stories about how you were the ugly duckling but pulled MAD game and wheeled a few broads away from better dudes. Heck, post a story about you getting anything, than you might get some credibility from other folks here.

That's weak. My girlfriends all see cute guys at parties, flirt with them because they are good looking, fvck them and move on or get in a relationship with them. The slightly pudgy, dumpy kid in the corner gets no action. That kid was my friend Charlie until he started working out religiously, lost the fat off his face, and got a tan. Now he has girls approaching him and fvcking him. And yet, he hasn't changed at all on the inside. He's just "hot" now. Its not because he "has more confidence now" or anything like that. Many girls I know have developed a superficial attraction to him based only off his looks, gone over to him without knowing him, and flirted heavily with and then fvcked him.

^^experience my brothers. need more of this on SS!

 

[Just a Shot Away]

don't even get me started cheese steak man.

Or what, you'll own me again by telling me that I'm gay and to "fvck off"? You're more than welcome to start, but only if you feel you are able to engage in this discussion in a civilized manner and behave like an adult. Otherwise, perhaps it is best that you just stay out of this one.

You have been going back and forth with these posters but I have yet to see any practical experience on your end. One poster goes on to describe how his female friends hook up with better looking dudes and you fall back to the logic that women don't know what they want. So if a women hooks up with a guy, you can still argue against them pursuing their desires since , 'they dont know what they want'. This is horrible logic by someone bereft of real life experience and trying to win an argument.

I have plenty of practical experience. There just happens to be very little success. All of the girls I slept with sort of "fell into my lap", if you will and I did not pursue them. All of the girls I have pursued rejected me. A few of these were confirmed by third parties to have a positive opinion of my looks. The poster that described girls hooking up with good-looking guys made a serious reasoning error. He derived from this incident that the REASON they hooked up with these dudes were because of their looks, and ignored their personalities, game, and confidence levels. That's like saying I bought a Lamborghini because it has leather seats, not because it's fast. Also, I'm not trying to win an argument because there's no argument to be had. I'm communicating the facts, and a few select posters contest them which isn't my issue. They're more than welcome to come forth with new research that goes against everything evolutionary biologists know about sexual selection today, but something tells me that these posters have zero data, zero experiments, and zero evidence to back any of their statements up besides "Oh, well I saw this one drunkass chick at a party bang a dude that had muscles..."

That said, allow me to retort with my own experiences in the not so distant past. I might overestimate my looks, and I am no model, but I stay in shape and have all my hair so I look respectable. A number of thursdays ago, I end up hooking up w/ a chick and getting her #. The next weekend, I end up getting a different chicks #. The week after that, I meet up with #2 and have some fun. A few days later, I pull another chick and go home w/ her. The common thread? they all tell me how hot I am.

That's awesome. I also get told this all the time. Girls screaming out of their cars at me, customers that literally won't shut up about my looks and how I should quit my job and be a stripper or model, staring...hell, a week ago a couple girls tried to take a picture of me in traffic after hearing them say "Oooh, nice." Guess how many of them I banged? You guessed it. ZERO. So obviously there's something else going on, here. If I was to bet, I'd say you're a reasonably confident guy. That would explain the severe discrepancy in our experiences with women.

If a chick sees a good looking dude, they will go for it. who the fvck am I to complain?

Sure, but if they see an ugly dude, they go for it as well. I see it all the time.

Justashotaway , prove me wrong. Post your stories about how you were the ugly duckling but pulled MAD game and wheeled a few broads away from better dudes. Heck, post a story about you getting anything, than you might get some credibility from other folks here.

Okay, number one...I don't need credibility. This isn't my research. This is the research of esteemed scientists who have devoted their lives to this. If you want to question the credibility of guys who have gotten Nobel Prizes for this stuff, then by all means. Do so. But if you want to hear my most recent LR, search for a thread about "Banging a girl at the same time as another dude" where a bunch of guys got all huffy about having sex with a married girl. Also, I have no stories about me being an ugly duckling but pulling girls away from better-looking dudes because that doesn't happen...it's the REVERSE that I see constantly. Ugly guys are constantly swooping up on girls that I only dream about, despite the fact that I am far better looking. Sometimes this is by their own admission! Confidence trumps all...ESPECIALLY facial symmetry.

 

[AAAgent]

But on the west coast, you had best believe that when a gay guy wants another dude's "cheesesteak" inside of him, it's pretty obvious and nice.

Sure, but if they see an ugly dude, they go for it as well. I see it all the time.

Apparently you seem to see many things the majority of us on this forum don't. Just like your first hand experiences with cheese steaks. don't start salivating now.

Ok attention *****.no more food for you today.

 

[goodfoot]

If you think attracting women is all about looks, why are you even on this site? Shouldn't you be at a fashion website or a men's health forum?

P.S. I'm kinda out of the loop on the whole "cheesesteak" reference and it's driving me mad.

 

[Trader]

There's something I've noticed as I walk around campus, and that's the fact that most girls don't keep or maintain eye contact with me, or even really look at me, unless I'm wearing a fitted top (I've been working out for almost 5 years and fairly muscular). So I've come to the conclusion that even though a few girls in the past have said I'm 'cute' I must be nothing special facially, or only good looking to a few chicks and not the majority. Good looking guys always get eye contact/looks don't they?

You don't need to have an attractive face, unless you are a girl

 

[zekko]

All of the girls I have pursued rejected me. A few of these were confirmed by third parties to have a positive opinion of my looks.

Sounds like your looks are getting your foot in the door, but you're not sealing the deal somehow. So the looks are a factor, but you're not taking advantage of them. A guy needs more than looks to seal the deal with a woman, unless she is very drunk or a slvt.

 

[Ice882]

That's a side issue. Looks not being important to women is a fact, and is not up for debate. As far as all girls being retarded and out of touch with what they want, I suppose you could argue that. I'm not arguing that, you are. I personally believe that no girl will tell you that she wants an ex-con as a boyfriend, and yet we continually see gorgeous women on the arms of ex-cons. No, we don't. As I said before, you're over-estimating how often that kind of thing happens by about a billion percent. But yet somehow...they know what they want. Attractive men with entertaining personalities. It seems paradoxical to me, but I'm no physicist. Maybe you can help me with that one.

Look man, women are indecisive by nature. More indecisive than men, yes. Utterly incapable of making a decision? No. Ever heard the expression "It's a woman's prerogative to change her mind."? That saying didn't just pop out of thin air. The reason that men are given the societal roles to lead and make decisions is because WE are the decisive ones. Its 2010, and our secretary of state is a woman. The majority of leadership positions are controlled by men but that doesn't make women incapable of rational thought or leadership. One is not indicative of the other. Women need and CRAVE leadership. You said yourself you have no success with women...for someone who can't figure it out in his own life, you sure have a lot of theories. A statement like this is usually referred to as "talking out of your @ss." This stuff is all right there in the Bible. The most definitive source of all time, naturally. Even some of the looks-matter guys will back me up on this one. For you to sit there and say that women are rational creatures that feel attraction by choice whoa whoa whoa whattttt ding ding ding word twist alert, didn't say that at all., when it is healthy and logical to do so is to ignore profound differences in our genders and completely ignores the advances we've made in evolutionary psychology. The reality is that attraction is not a choice, and women are attracted to a wide variety of factors designed to override rational thought in favor of one universal, timeless goal: make more humans.

Wow, its interesting how you just turned what I said into something completely different. Dumb people who read this may actually be fooled.

To be clear: I never said anything about women feeling attraction "by choice"... that would be retarded. No one feels attraction by choice, male or female.

Lemme boil down the thousands of posts you've made on this subject:

1. Your opinion that looks don't matter is a fact. "Something something darwin something something 150 years of scientific research that I refuse to cite, especially not from a reputable source, something something where are YOUR sources?? Something something deflect and selectively respond to pieces of posts something something arguing style that only works over the internet and would get you dominated in real life."

Although, you are very good at baiting people into responding. Points for that.

 

[Just a Shot Away]

So the looks are a factor, but you're not taking advantage of them. A guy needs more than looks to seal the deal with a woman, unless she is very drunk or a slvt.

Sure, obviously everything is a factor. Whether or not you have carpet or a hardwood floor is a factor. I just don't understand the point of starting these threads trying to convince other guys that they are a factor. The PUA's say not to worry about it. The DJ Bible says not to worry about it. Nobel Prize-winning scientists over the last 150 YEARS say not to worry about it. And yet...there's still some individuals who find it necessary to try to convince other guys that these people are all wrong.

Oh, and I've been driving around very drunk sluts for 2 1/2 years in a taxi...I haven't banged ONE. A good amount of these girls wouldn't shut up about how hot I am, either. So there must be something else needed even in this case.

No, we don't. As I said before, you're over-estimating how often that kind of thing happens by about a billion percent.

Well maybe you don't, because you don't want to open your eyes to the truth. Personally, I see it all the time because I'm interested in this kind of thing and notice it immediately. I also live in a much bigger city than you do and have a larger sample size.

More indecisive than men, yes. Utterly incapable of making a decision? No

The fact remains: women are famous for not knowing what they want.

Its 2010, and our secretary of state is a woman. The majority of leadership positions are controlled by men but that doesn't make women incapable of rational thought or leadership. One is not indicative of the other.

Dude, Hillary didn't get to where she is because she's a good leader and she's good at making tough decisions. You don't really think that, do you? She got to where she is because she was the WIFE of a male President, and adding her to Obama's ticket helped him get elected. And yes, I think it's fair to say that since men are in most leadership positions, that means that they are more qualified to lead. Similarly, I think that since most secretaries are females, this indicates that women are better at answering phones and keeping track of appointments than men are. Everybody has their roles in society.

You said yourself you have no success with women...for someone who can't figure it out in his own life, you sure have a lot of theories. A statement like this is usually referred to as "talking out of your @ss."

I have no theories. I've stated this numerous times. All I have are the facts, which people like you choose to ignore.

To be clear: I never said anything about women feeling attraction "by choice"... that would be retarded. No one feels attraction by choice, male or female.

Well, you kinda did. You think women are rational, right? Right. So when hot chicks are trotting around with violent criminals, you believe it's a logical thing for a girl that can have a guy that is not an ex-con to do this. That's two completely contradicting statements. Obviously, it's not rational for a woman to do this (meaning attraction isn't a choice) so you feel that since women ARE rational, this also means that attraction is in fact, a choice.

1. Your opinion that looks don't matter is a fact. "Something something darwin something something 150 years of scientific research that I refuse to cite, especially not from a reputable source, something something where are YOUR sources?? Something something deflect and selectively respond to pieces of posts something something arguing style that only works over the internet and would get you dominated in real life."

I cite this stuff, constantly. I can't do it on every thread because I'm not going to baby you looks-matter guys and hold your hand while guiding you to the truth. I'll post a couple links for you here that I posted on another thread (which you claim I never do), but after that you're on your own, buddy. I can only show you the door. YOU are the one that has to walk through it.


http://www.thegreatdebate.org.uk/sexualselection.html
Cool thoughts about why looks don't even matter to peacocks:

"The paradox arises because, if all of the females choose to mate with the same few males – those with the ‘best’ genes, then there will be much less genetic variety in the population in the next generation, and over a number of generations we might expect this to lead to no variety, making it impossible to sustain any choice."


http://www-personal.umich.edu/~kruger/ep8.html
Fun excerpt:

"In a series of four studies, Sadalla, Kenrick & Vershure (1987) found that dominant behavior in males increased female's sexual attraction to them. Dominant behavior in females was not related to sexual attraction in males."


http://www.evoyage.com/Evolutionary%...enwomensex.htm
University of Georgia faculty member on why good looks can actually HURT guys:

"For example, she says, ''the good genes' model leads to oversimplified notions that there is a 'best male' out there, a top-of-the-line hunk whom all females would prefer to mate with if they had the wherewithal. But in the viability model, a female brings her own genetic complement to the equation, with the result that what looks good genetically to one woman might be a clash of colors for another.''

 

[Exhumed]

That last link doesn't work. And by that description, good looks can actually HURT...the "less attractive" guys. If you're less attractive and think that the 'good genes' model is accurate, then you'll be less confident, whereas the guy who is told his whole life that he is attractive will be confident even if the 'viability' model is accurate.

 

[Ice882]

Sure, obviously everything is a factor. Whether or not you have carpet or a hardwood floor is a factor. I just don't understand the point of starting these threads trying to convince other guys that they are a factor. The PUA's say not to worry about it. The DJ Bible says not to worry about it. Nobel Prize-winning scientists over the last 150 YEARS say not to worry about it. And yet...there's still some individuals who find it necessary to try to convince other guys that these people are all wrong.

Oh, and I've been driving around very drunk sluts for 2 1/2 years in a taxi...I haven't banged ONE. A good amount of these girls wouldn't shut up about how hot I am, either. So there must be something else needed even in this case.



Well maybe you don't, because you don't want to open your eyes to the truth. Personally, I see it all the time because I'm interested in this kind of thing and notice it immediately. I also live in a much bigger city than you do and have a larger sample size. This is an opinion. "Maybe I don't see it because I don't want to open my eyes to the truth?" WTF are you talking about dude? You sound like some kind of delusional prophet. What could I possibly have to gain from ignoring the "truth?" I'm a 7-8 on the looks scale and a fun guy to be around. Either way works for me.



The fact remains: women are famous for not knowing what they want. Basically "I have nothing to refute what you said, so I will restate my opinion."



Dude, Hillary didn't get to where she is because she's a good leader and she's good at making tough decisions. You don't really think that, do you? Wow. Gonna try and shame me into it? She got to where she is because she was the WIFE of a male President, and adding her to Obama's ticket helped him get elected. Wow. That's cynical. And I'm a cynical guy. But that's cynical to the point of willful and bitter ignorance. And yes, I think it's fair to say that since men are in most leadership positions, that means that they are more qualified to lead. So you think that. Interesting opinion. Similarly, I think that since most secretaries are females, this indicates that women are better at answering phones and keeping track of appointments than men are. Everybody has their roles in society.



I have no theories. I've stated this numerous times. All I have are the facts, which people like you choose to ignore.



Well, you kinda did. You think women are rational, right? Right. So when hot chicks are trotting around with violent criminals, you believe it's a logical thing for a girl that can have a guy that is not an ex-con to do this. That's two completely contradicting statements. Obviously, it's not rational for a woman to do this (meaning attraction isn't a choice) so you feel that since women ARE rational, this also means that attraction is in fact, a choice.




I cite this stuff, constantly. I can't do it on every thread because I'm not going to baby you looks-matter guys Lol let's get this straight... I'm not a "looks matter" guy. I'm not an anything guy. and hold your hand while guiding you to the truth. All you'v ever said to me has been opinion. You presenting it as fact does not make it so. I'll post a couple links for you here that I posted on another thread (which you claim I never do), but after that you're on your own, buddy. I can only show you the door. YOU are the one that has to walk through it.


http://www.thegreatdebate.org.uk/sexualselection.html
Cool thoughts about why looks don't even matter to peacocks:

"The paradox arises because, if all of the females choose to mate with the same few males – those with the ‘best’ genes, then there will be much less genetic variety in the population in the next generation, and over a number of generations we might expect this to lead to no variety, making it impossible to sustain any choice." This isn't applicable. Its 1. A different species operating on a survival-only basis. No recreational sex. 2. Women aren't choosing to mate when they're at a party. They're choosing to fvck. 3. The whole thing about an in-sustainable mate pairings doesn't apply to humans. Attractive men won't often sleep with ugly azs women. Usually fat ugly disgusting women can't GET attractive men. This is off the table.


http://www-personal.umich.edu/~kruger/ep8.html
Fun excerpt:

"In a series of four studies, Sadalla, Kenrick & Vershure (1987) found that dominant behavior in males increased female's sexual attraction to them. Dominant behavior in females was not related to sexual attraction in males." Obviously. Behavior is important. But the idea of behavior being important doesn't mean looks don't matter. They are not mutually exclusive. This does more to prove the rational, level-headed position than the "ONE THING IS IMPORTANT AND THE OTHER IS NOT111" stance.


http://www.evoyage.com/Evolutionary%...enwomensex.htm
University of Georgia faculty member on why good looks can actually HURT guys:

"For example, she says, ''the good genes' model leads to oversimplified notions that there is a 'best male' out there, a top-of-the-line hunk whom all females would prefer to mate with if they had the wherewithal. But in the viability model, a female brings her own genetic complement to the equation, with the result that what looks good genetically to one woman might be a clash of colors for another.'' hahaha, read that last excerpt carefully. Its saying what one woman finds good looking varies from the next woman. Guess what's being inherently acknowledged as mattering in there? Looks.

Oh dear. There's no coming back from that.