Does it get better after 30?

[st_99]

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

BUT

you can be on the wrong road, i've seen guys go down hill, let themselves go, do stupid things.

You HAVE to always be learning, bettering yourself, striving to look good, expand your mind, have some interests (whatever they may be).

Unequivocally yes, for us guys life really doesn't start until you're 30 BUT you have to have some internal brain structure that leads you in the right direction. I've seen some guys that just do stupid sh*t, go backwards, and just f*ck their lives up at this age.

Don't do drugs, don't be an alcoholic, and don't let ANYONE bring you down.

 

[squirrels]

You're saying women leave you because they feel you're out of their league?

Not quite, but they do act increasingly neurotic. For example, going beyond the limits of reason trying to impress you.

Think about how an AFC acts around a gorgeous young woman. He does stuff like spill his heart to her, go overboard to impress her to the point of looking foolish, or try to over-sell the "I'm the prize" mentality, putting on airs trying to make her (and himself) believe that he's better than her and she should be desperate to hook up with him. And sometimes he just "punches out" and stops trying because he feels that the girl is so much better than him that he's "making a fool of himself" trying to get with her and the only way he can save face is admit defeat and bail.

Insecurity causes all kinds of neurotic "beta" behavior in men. But men generally have at least SOME control of their feelings. When a woman gets insecure, you will see behaviors that make NO goddam sense.

 

[typical]

I'm only 27 and it has already happened for me, I've still got a rock solid body and am still single with no previous relationship baggage all my mates are either married with kids or divorced with kids and all equally unhappy.

Yet they still want me to "settle down" and be unhappy like them. They try and undermine me when I pick up the hot young 21 yo bar tender and give me crap for being too old for her and other garbage.

I still havn't even graduated uni yet so still have a lot og things to achieve but the mindset is already in me. Funny thing is most girls between 20-28 pick up on a "certain" vibe that I have my sh!t sorted and won't settle for something below my standards and the attention is mind blowing.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Typical,
The crabs in the barrel pulling the other crab back that's trying to escape....that doesn't end at 30. Heck I'm 40 and all the people I know/work with all pull the same BS. Most women I know try and shame me for still being single. Guys at work do it too. While plenty of them bemoan their relationships, they'll turn right around and tell me that I need to "man up" and get married. I'm sure there's some of them that enjoy fatherhood, family, etc. However shaming a single guy that's living according to what he wants will continue your whole single career.
KC

 

[squirrels]

Typical,
The crabs in the barrel pulling the other crab back that's trying to escape....that doesn't end at 30. Heck I'm 40 and all the people I know/work with all pull the same BS. Most women I know try and shame me for still being single. Guys at work do it too. While plenty of them bemoan their relationships, they'll turn right around and tell me that I need to "man up" and get married. I'm sure there's some of them that enjoy fatherhood, family, etc. However shaming a single guy that's living according to what he wants will continue your whole single career.
KC

The thing about them is that they don't have a clue what they WANT out of life. All of their desires have been scripted for them. Go to college, get a job, get married, buy a house, have kids...I guess a combination of human nature and societal pressure.

The thing is, they are always wondering whether they SHOULD have made different choices, or whether they COULD have. So they see someone like you who is enjoying the single life, and it messes with their heads and calls into doubt whether THEY are doing what they "should be doing".

To them, nature and nurture have demanded since day one that this is the path they follow. They view it as a "responsibility", something that they have to do to "win" at life, and the way they justify it when they see someone who is doing something different is they consider that person to be irresponsible/immature.

I'm not even completely against the "marriage-and-kids" routine myself. MY problem is finding a decent partner.

It's funny...I never had "bad dates" before. I mean in my 20s I ran into plenty of women who were a little weird, but at least they were fun to hang out with. These days, the women in their 30s are, as I said previously in the post, all semi-neurotic, since they know their looks are failing and mine are obviously not, nor am I "losing value" as a mate.

It could also be because I'm "Internet dating" right now. I dunno where else to meet 'em any more though. The truth is I just don't meet a lot of attractive, SANE women my age any more.

Which is my point...does it get easier to bag women after 30? YES. Does it get any easier to find DECENT women after 30? HELLZ NO.

 

[Nutz]

Thoughts? Has this been the case for folks here?

Definitely true. I have so many women in their 30s on the hook it's retarded. I still have trouble getting women in their 20s interested as much and as quickly as women 30+ though. Low hanging fruit and all that is probably why my lineup is full of 30+ at the moment. Ironically, the under 20 crowd hasn't been a problem either. It's 21-late 20s that's been a problem for me. And it's not that they're trouble or a problem, it's just that they require more game than the older chicks. Again, low hanging fruit.

I think what he means is that there's a real danger of "overgaming." If you are a well put together man in his 30's running routines, it's REAL difficult not to come off as a player. And, while younger women might chase players, women that are looking to settle down will NOT.

I don't think it's coming off as a player that's the problem, it's that your percieved value is up and theirs is down and that trend continues throughout your 30s, so that value differential manifests in weird ways, like low self-esteem in the women with respect to the relationship. They get needy, clingy, and worried you'll trade them in for a newer model. Overgaming is actually more forgiving at this stage. In fact all the old faux pas you made when you were younger that would have gotten you blown out, at 30+ women let more and more things slide.

Ignore the "women would rather share a successful man..." business, because it doesn't exactly work that way. After a certain age, women begin to value stability and a man's ability to provide more than raw sexual chemistry. This is really the reason PUA game is geared toward the 18-25 demographic; you don't need "game" with women in their thirties. In fact, it might even be counterproductive.

If you're a successful man in his thirties with "game," realize that you're EXPECTED to aim higher, so to speak.

There's a lot of truth in that. The 30+ women I've been dating, particularly the ones with kids, hate hate hate! that I have options and can't stand not being exclusive. I've lost a few because of this very reason.

 

[Jitterbug]

At my current consistent rate of improvement in everything, I'll be much better in my 30s.

The trick then will be creating opportunities to be around the younger girls. It's not usually convenient for different age groups to hang out with each other, but I think I've got that sorted.

This is really the reason PUA game is geared toward the 18-25 demographic; you don't need "game" with women in their thirties.

Pretty sure the real reason is that the 18-25 girls are hot and the 30+ ones are not.

 

[bugsquish]

I definitely make better decisions in the last few years, and I understand the behavior of the girls I meet in ways I could only have dreamed of 10 years ago.

 

[Rogue]

Roissy on the "Difficulty of Gaming Women By Age Bracket."

 

[Fuglydude]

This is a very cool thread with tons of interesting info...

I'll be turning 30 later this year, and am on the whole looking forward to it. I'm getting married in a couple of weeks, so I don't really have any vested interest in gaming younger girls. However, its fascinating to understand the changing sociosexual dynamics between men and women as we age.

One thing I can add to this discussion is the impact of physical development into the 30s. For guys like me who have spent over a decade in the trenches the 30's is where you can really get into peak shape physically. Most guys are done physically maturing in their mid to late 20s, however, with continued training you get that really hard muscular maturity look in your 30s. Most top bodybuilders are in their 30s, and even early 40s. Many pro athletes, whether it be in MMA, soccer, baseball/basketball are all peaking in their 30s. NFL is a bit different because of the physical impact that players sustain in their 20s, but for the "lower impact" positions like wide receivers, many of them peak in their 30s.

Personally for me I'll be competing in my first BB show when I'm 30, and can't wait to be in that kind of shape. Game, PUA techniques all that other crap that guys on here obsess about don't mean shiit if you're a good looking guy with an elite physique who's socially/sexually aware. I've seen tons of my buddies in their 30s load out hot young girls like its nothing, all based purely on looks, sexuality and status.

 

[Nutz]

Roissy on the "Difficulty of Gaming Women By Age Bracket."

I cannot overstate how important it is you all read this if you're looking for more information on the subject. I would quibble with the age range cutoffs based on personal experience, but as a whole this is a grand slam of an article.

 

[typical]

The thing about them is that they don't have a clue what they WANT out of life. All of their desires have been scripted for them. Go to college, get a job, get married, buy a house, have kids...I guess a combination of human nature and societal pressure.

The thing is, they are always wondering whether they SHOULD have made different choices, or whether they COULD have. So they see someone like you who is enjoying the single life, and it messes with their heads and calls into doubt whether THEY are doing what they "should be doing".

To them, nature and nurture have demanded since day one that this is the path they follow. They view it as a "responsibility", something that they have to do to "win" at life, and the way they justify it when they see someone who is doing something different is they consider that person to be irresponsible/immature.

I'm not even completely against the "marriage-and-kids" routine myself. MY problem is finding a decent partner.

It's funny...I never had "bad dates" before. I mean in my 20s I ran into plenty of women who were a little weird, but at least they were fun to hang out with. These days, the women in their 30s are, as I said previously in the post, all semi-neurotic, since they know their looks are failing and mine are obviously not, nor am I "losing value" as a mate.

It could also be because I'm "Internet dating" right now. I dunno where else to meet 'em any more though. The truth is I just don't meet a lot of attractive, SANE women my age any more.

Which is my point...does it get easier to bag women after 30? YES. Does it get any easier to find DECENT women after 30? HELLZ NO.

See I don't believe in the DECENT woman idea at all, I don't know when it happened but being able to instinctively "know" that I can have that woman with ease no matter if she's single has a boyfriend engaged or married killed the idea for me. Being able to pull girls that seem to have it all would be another nail in coffin.

I sat back and though long and hard about these reasons why is society trying to portray woman as special honourable trustable beings when I have proven time and time again that I can break them and get them to do whatever I want.

It's got to the point where I see honour trust only in MEN not in WOMEN. I can trust my mates to keep their words and vice versa I can trust them with anything but WOMEN .............. well they bore me after a while they are just empty voids with great bodies and faces nothing more.

I know to further my genes I will have to procreate with a women sooner or later but fu(k me most women only have the aesthetics not the mental ability that I want my children to have, even the smart ones are blatently stupid at things outside their comfort zone.

I'm leaning more and more at becoming a monk in the next 10 years if I don't find a suitable women, fu(k settling down with a woman I have little or no respect for let alone if she can stimulate me sexually and mentally.

Till I find a lady like that I will continue on if not meh who cares

ALSO I would like to mention that it's easy to "get women" but DECENT women are another ball game altogether and no matter what age your at getting a decent lady (provided your a decent man) is always going to be hard ................. for some reason I like this challenge I like the power that I am in control and that I decide if she is worth it or not and not the other way around. For this reason alone I'm regarded as a heartless bastard that deserves to be single (exact words from this 22 year old girl who I told face to face that I don't see a future together as she has too many issues that I can't be bothered to deal with, not my fault that I don't want to be your "daddy").

Being an Indian my parents are being bombarded with "marriage proposals" from other Indian families, the girls are gorgeous smart educated but why can't they find a guy for themselves ? why depend on mummy and daddy to find a guy. I even told a girl and her parents once that I am not a normal Indian guy I have a very different view of life and I asked some simple questions to which they all looked at me as if I was insane, almost to the point where her good looks should be enough for me to want to marry her. They wouldn't even let me date her so I could get to know her better (not everyday do you get good looking girls delivered to you on a golden plate LOL) ............... wtf man I bailed hard on them lol.

I even told them that in this day and age if your girl can't find a good guy for herself then there is something wrong with her. I'll stop now I'm rambling

 

[Zarky]

Guys, I don't mean to make your heads spin, but from what I've seen, as long as you keep yourself in good shape, it gets better and better and better until you're friggin dead. I've met unmarried dudes when I worked in Hollywood who were in their 60s and were banging (hot) chicks in their 40s. But these guys didn't have any kids, one had never been married, the other had been married once for 4 years, and they kept in shape, they were fashionable but not trying too hard, and they were kind of eternal hipsters who were very open minded, smoked pot, and had lots of youngish friends and kept plugged into the culture. They weren't sipping Sanka and watching reruns of Green Acres.

I've seen my dad, who is 72 years old but still handsome and outgoing (doesn't hurt that he's 6'2 and in good shape), get hit on by chicks in their 30s.

Great to see and very inspiring. As long as you keep up with fashion, your local culture, and if you don't get fat, I think you guys will be very surprised at how popular old guys are with younger women.

 

[L B]

Great thread and great responses guys.

I'm delaying my marriage and working on saving up money for retirement. Who knows if my ltr will last when I'm ready. It's good to know that if I keep up what I'm doing (gym, career, happiness), my 30s and beyond will be just as good now, possibly better.

 

[Maxtro]

However, guys that still "don't get it" in their 30's are going to have it rough.

That is what I'm afraid of.

I'll be 30 in September and I still don't "get it."

I highly doubt things are going to magically change and I'm going to start getting laid. That's bullshit.

From what I gather, the only way I'll get a break is by dating some single mom. And the last thing I want to do is have a single mom for my first girlfriend. I actually had a talk with my Mom and Grandmother about my dating troubles. My Grandmother got upset with me when I said that I didn't want to date a single mom. She said I'm getting too old and should just take what I can get.

Sigh.

 

[squirrels]

See I don't believe in the DECENT woman idea at all, I don't know when it happened but being able to instinctively "know" that I can have that woman with ease no matter if she's single has a boyfriend engaged or married killed the idea for me. Being able to pull girls that seem to have it all would be another nail in coffin.

I sat back and though long and hard about these reasons why is society trying to portray woman as special honourable trustable beings when I have proven time and time again that I can break them and get them to do whatever I want.

I dunno...I don't consider a girl who refuses to give it up as the definition of "decent". I consider a "decent" girl to be a girl I want to hang out with even when I'm NOT horny.

It's kind of sad...on the first date, a lot of girls seem like they COULD fit the bill. By the second or third, once I've already hit it, I start REALLY considering whether she's "the one" material, and I just don't find many who I can say, "YES, I would like hanging out with her!"

It's not that we don't have common interests, it's just that it seems like there's always that adversarial system. Maybe I just need to give it more time, but it seems like even once you're "in", there's that knowledge in the back of your head that women are WAITING for you to chump out. They're so used to being disappointed by men that they're looking for an excuse...ANY excuse...to dump you at all times. So even though I'm candid and honest with them usually, I always feel very "guarded" with them.

It's got to the point where I see honour trust only in MEN not in WOMEN. I can trust my mates to keep their words and vice versa I can trust them with anything but WOMEN .............. well they bore me after a while they are just empty voids with great bodies and faces nothing more.

"Honor" is a male concept. A sense of equity and fairness requires extensive use of logic when dealing with social and moral situations. Women, on the other hand, will use emotion as their guiding energy. They do what "feels right" deep down.

That's kind of what I meant above, and I definitely see where you're coming from. I can leverage a woman's emotions to get her to do what I want. But I know I can't have influence over her 24/7 and that she's gonna go out into the world on her own at some point. (It's no small wonder that our grandparents kept their wives in the kitchen )

My male friends...I know that I don't have to impress them every time we hang out. We have an understanding of our own strengths and weaknesses. Women, on the other hand...you have to frame everything in a favorable emotional light. That's a lot of damned work all the time. Guys just respect you for who you are. Women respect you for how you make them feel.

I swear...sometimes it's easier to keep women coming back if you just let them go out and date. I'm hooking up with a couple of 30somethings right now on and off...it's almost easier for me to tell them to go hang out with other guys (and leave me alone for a while) than to try to "hold them down".

I know to further my genes I will have to procreate with a women sooner or later but fu(k me most women only have the aesthetics not the mental ability that I want my children to have, even the smart ones are blatently stupid at things outside their comfort zone.

I'm leaning more and more at becoming a monk in the next 10 years if I don't find a suitable women, fu(k settling down with a woman I have little or no respect for let alone if she can stimulate me sexually and mentally.

Till I find a lady like that I will continue on if not meh who cares

I am already trying to get my head around the idea that I may NOT procreate.

I dunno if that's where I want to be. But I've always said I'd rather NOT have a kid than have a kid with the wrong woman. Now I'm forced to honor those words, and I don't find it pleasant.

Dude, the truth hurts. This website...all the things you learn can't be un-learned. It's so much easier when you're some dumb schmuck who just finds a halfway-decent looking girl, figures he "got lucky", and marries and breeds because of some invisible moral imperative to "pass himself on". Many of them don't even have the brains to CARE about the girl's personality or intelligence...to them, she's a means to an end.

ALSO I would like to mention that it's easy to "get women" but DECENT women are another ball game altogether and no matter what age your at getting a decent lady (provided your a decent man) is always going to be hard ................. for some reason I like this challenge I like the power that I am in control and that I decide if she is worth it or not and not the other way around. For this reason alone I'm regarded as a heartless bastard that deserves to be single (exact words from this 22 year old girl who I told face to face that I don't see a future together as she has too many issues that I can't be bothered to deal with, not my fault that I don't want to be your "daddy").

Being an Indian my parents are being bombarded with "marriage proposals" from other Indian families, the girls are gorgeous smart educated but why can't they find a guy for themselves ? why depend on mummy and daddy to find a guy. I even told a girl and her parents once that I am not a normal Indian guy I have a very different view of life and I asked some simple questions to which they all looked at me as if I was insane, almost to the point where her good looks should be enough for me to want to marry her. They wouldn't even let me date her so I could get to know her better (not everyday do you get good looking girls delivered to you on a golden plate LOL) ............... wtf man I bailed hard on them lol.

I even told them that in this day and age if your girl can't find a good guy for herself then there is something wrong with her. I'll stop now I'm rambling

The Indian "arranged marriage" culture sees things like I was talking about above. The woman is just a means to an end...creating children. It's a simpler lifestyle...not so much about human pair-bonding as it is about finding someone to have your kids. Family is central to EVERYTHING. If you think about what YOU want out of life at the expense of the expected breeding schedule, it's looked upon as greedy/selfish behavior.

That is what I'm afraid of.

I'll be 30 in September and I still don't "get it."

I highly doubt things are going to magically change and I'm going to start getting laid. That's bullshit.

From what I gather, the only way I'll get a break is by dating some single mom. And the last thing I want to do is have a single mom for my first girlfriend. I actually had a talk with my Mom and Grandmother about my dating troubles. My Grandmother got upset with me when I said that I didn't want to date a single mom. She said I'm getting too old and should just take what I can get.

Sigh.

Grandma has the same mentality...it's not about YOU, it's about the breeding imperative. In her mind, you have a DUTY to it. The elder women in your family will ALWAYS think that way. They don't want to see you happy, they want to see you happily married. That's their definition of "success" for you, and it's impossible to grasp how anyone's life can be complete without "little heads" running around bumping into things.

I think all men have a "crisis moment" at some point in their lives when they stare out into the void and wonder if everything they've gone through in their lives is "worth it", whether they've made the right decisions in life. Most only have that moment after having kids...they start to wonder whether it was worth it to reproduce and take on the responsibility of parenting. Most take solace in the approval and affection of their families in that regard...someone to give them a hug and tell them, "You raised a decent family, you're a decent man". But all men, at some point, wonder if they're measuring themselves by the right standard.

God, this post is becoming depressing. I dunno if I want to continue with it...sometimes this forum reminds me of just HOW alone I am in this world. What I WOULDN'T give for ONE woman...just ONE among a billion...who really "gets it". Who doesn't just SAY she "gets it", but really, REALLY gets it.

...and who has a nice body.

 

[Nutz]

and had lots of youngish friends and kept plugged into the culture.

That's the key, to have the women you want to be with somewhere in your vicinity during your day to day. It creates opportunity. It kinda tracks to the saying you're the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with. Dating often works the same way, even with cold approach.

 

[Lexington]

The Indian "arranged marriage" culture sees things like I was talking about above. The woman is just a means to an end...creating children. It's a simpler lifestyle...not so much about human pair-bonding as it is about finding someone to have your kids. Family is central to EVERYTHING. If you think about what YOU want out of life at the expense of the expected breeding schedule, it's looked upon as greedy/selfish behavior.

Interestingly, this arranged marriage thing was the norm in all cultures (including Western cultures) until relatively recently. Many parts of the world still practice this custom. This idea of romantic love is actually a fairly novel concept.

 

[Zarky]

I think all men have a "crisis moment" at some point in their lives when they stare out into the void and wonder if everything they've gone through in their lives is "worth it", whether they've made the right decisions in life.

Heh, I have one of those every single day :yes:

And then I say to myself, "Dude, you're a walking corpse. In 100 years you will be gone and nobody will remember a thing you've done. None of this matters, so you better enjoy the ride."

 

[zekko]

And then I say to myself, "Dude, you're a walking corpse. In 100 years you will be gone and nobody will remember a thing you've done. None of this matters, so you better enjoy the ride."

I find myself thinking much the same thing, except in my case it's more like 20 years.

As far as wondering have I made the right decisions in life, yeah I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no. I mean I've done some things right, and I'm sure I missed a lot of the right answers along the way. But learning from your mistakes is part of how you learn, so there's no sense beating yourself up over it.