Do you guys find attractive, single, undamaged women at this age?

[Mr.Positive]

I think the best advice is to treat each woman as unique, either from America or Europe, and not go in with a negative attitude. That way, you are objective, and can spot red flags as you see them and weed out non quality woman. Whatever you do, don't assume that just because a woman is from the EU she has the values that you are looking for.

That being said, I have been to the EU several times, and can say that generally people have a bit more strength of character there. This is mostly due to the challenges that the generations had to face in these countries as time progressed. WWII, for example, people saw their wives and husbands seperated in concentration camps, not knowing whether they survived or not. Cities were virtually demolished, homes destroyed right before their very lives. That's just one example, dig a little further. Poland for example, for 150 years..150 years, they did not have even have a country. The only thing that keep their culture together was family. They had to fight for this. So, culture does play a big part in how people think and what they value. In America, we just don't seem to have that sense as much because we're a young country. We really haven't lived through times like that..

 

[Wyldfire]

I found this site that talks about the negative aspects of foreign women. This is specific to Russian women...which are one of the main groups of foreign women that guys on here think will treat them better than American women do. This page is experiences Western men have had with Russian women...and it's not pretty. I'm not saying that all foreign women are like this...only pointing out that just like here in the US...there are bad women everywhere and the less you iron out your own sh*t the more likely you will be to attract lesser quality women. There are good women everywhere as well...and you're not going to find them in bars, strip clubs, etc.

http://agencyscams.com/Horror.html

 

[mzilla2]

It comes down to basic demographics, the older folks get the more likely they are to have more "history" (kids, marriages, therapists LOL). Perhaps you're looking for the "needle in the haystack", if thats the case got you've got lots of straw to move, one by one...

Personally, at 34, I realize the empirical realities of dating older women and am much more concerned with how a chick treats me and others, and how she has learned from her life experience, as opposed to arbitrarily dismissing them on demographic issues... In my experience younger aint that much better either with not enough life experience to have a grip on reality...

Wyldfyre does have some points about messed up / loser / user dudes out there too... I think quality women face a similar problems as we "quality" men do...

 

[wayword]

http://agencyscams.com/Horror.html

They don't only want a few thousands bucks. They want to marry, file abuse charges and get everything you have

Well, the worst-case scenarios for some Russian brides...is about the norm here!

And is probably still better than those "losers" could have done here, sad to say. Yes, you can do better abroad - but if you're a 1 here, you still might only be a 3 abroad. Point is it will still be better relative to here though.

So again, if you are going to get a foreign LTR - you want to relocate abroad. If you try to bring one back here - she is probably more the greencard-digging type and will Americanize over time too. What you want is local girls in a foreign, un-Americanized culture. Which means you have to go there, not bring them back here. Which may not be a bad idea anyways - as our country is $9 trillion in debt, has a growing ghetto culture and is becoming filled with feral kids and single moms. What is this country going to be like in another generation? You do the math.

 

[Wyldfire]

mzilla2...it's American society in general...there is a sense of entitlement and very little sense of personal responsibility. I was very lucky that my parents instilled very strong personal responsibility values in our family. It's probably the one thing that has allowed me to easily deal with some very tragic and unpleasant life experiences. I hold myself accountable for my mistakes and choices. Right now I'm going round and round in that Trauma, Sexual Abuse and Recovery class with my teacher. We've been talking about Domestic Violence and as I mentioned...the whole damn class seems to have experienced some kind of abuse. There are A LOT of women in that class who run the abusive relationship pattern. There is one woman who is currently in an abusive marriage and has chosen to stay. This teacher is preaching the embracing of victimhood and it's driving me up the wall. When I see someone getting stuck in that victim mentality here it also drives me nuts. It's the worst thing a person can do to themselves because it prevents them from overcoming their problems and improve their lives. It's why I'm so tough on the anti-feminist guys...because I want them to have a better life and to be happy and I know they aren't going to have either if they view themselves as victims of women or feminists. No person, group or philosophy has the power
to hurt you unless you want to let it so you have a reason to biotch, complain and distract you from making positive change.

Many men and women have gotten into this whole blame game and lack of accountability and self-responsibility. Blaming is nothing more than an excuse to avoid self-responsibility and growth.

 

[mzilla2]

Zactly... When I hear the blame game startin', either from a chick or dude, I discount EVERYTHING that follows from 'em.

 

[jophil28]

Here is my contribution to this debate.
I live in eastern Australia in Brisbane, a city of 1mil +..A small city by comparoson with Sydney or LA or NYC.
There is a shortage of single marriageable MEN here. One would think that the law of supply and demand would impact on women who are seeking a LTR down here. But No !
At my age I still encounter the same old "princess" mentality that I saw in my youth and I saw in the USA some years ago. Women down here are under evolved and self-centered in the extreme. They believe , very conveniently, that men just want sex and that a woman is entitled to barter her pvssy to get her needs and WANTS met in a LTR. Local city women down here are ***** shielded brats who regard men as "the enemy' to be deceived and used. They feel entitled to a life of luxury and self-indulgence and want some man to pay for it. IN return they condescend to have sex with him -lucky guy.
All this is inspite of the man shortage !!
Women frequently whine about the lack of "a good man" ...
"good men" are usually smart men and are skillful enough to avoid the users ,losers, cruisers and abusers.
Country gals are quite different. Theye are sweet and charming and are lacking in that "attitude" that city girls have, Thay are used to a life of working side by side with men
I have had two country girls as g/fs. They were great.
Too bad that they are so scarce and scattered.


We have a 5O% divorce rate too. So guys, travel down under if you wish but remember, western women are usually not good candidites for an LTR.

 

[wayword]

Many men and women have gotten into this whole blame game and lack of accountability and self-responsibility. Blaming is nothing more than an excuse to avoid self-responsibility and growth.

But as you observed in your class where 7/8 are damaged goods...women aren't doing much self-improvement these days - whilst men are bending over backwards doing so.

Anyhow, we can round robin this forever here. But American women simply aren't going to change because they don't have to. You see how hard the mindset is here? Case-in-point. "Why don't you guys keep improving?"

When the real question of "why don't WE keep improving" NEVER EVEN COMES UP.

What a joy it is to then meet a foreign woman who is radically different and you didn't have to browbeat into being so! At some point you realize that it's simply easier to buy another better brand of car than to keep trying to fix the busted one you have. That's called a paradigm shift and is always the best solution to a bitter Mexican standoff.

 

[Wyldfire]

But as you observed in your class where 7/8 are damaged goods...women aren't doing much self-improvement these days - whilst men are bending over backwards doing so.

Anyhow, we can round robin this forever here. But American women simply aren't going to change because they don't have to. You see how hard the mindset is here? Case-in-point. "Why don't you guys keep improving?"

When the real question of "why don't WE keep improving" NEVER EVEN COMES UP.

What a joy it is to then meet a foreign woman who is radically different and you didn't have to browbeat into being so! At some point you realize that it's simply easier to buy another better brand of car than to keep trying to fix the busted one you have. That's called a paradigm shift and is always the best solution to a bitter Mexican standoff.

I said that MOST of the women in my class are decent, well-adjusted women. The fact that they are in college full time shows that they are, indeed, trying to improve themselves. I said there were 4 or 5 women out of 30ish who were whack and should be in therapy, not in college to become counselors...they need counseling themselves. That being said...even though they aren't dealing with their problems properly or even consciously...they are still trying to do something. I'd rather they spare me and the rest of the class their incessant need to air their baggage repeatedly in class every day, but they are still trying to do something positive.

Ironically...there are very few men who attend my college. I'm in my third MOD and have taken 6 classes so far. There have been less than 10 men total in those classes. This is not a hard school to get into. In fact, the only way you don't get in is if the administration things you aren't ready. There is also a law enforcement program, Business, Accounting...and very few men still.

There are just as many men who aren't doing a damn thing to improve themselves as there are women. This site demonstrates that very clearly. So much biotching, complaining and blaming and so little posts highlighting positive changes people are making. Again...I'm honestly trying to HELP you. You're one of the complainers. The grass always looks greener somewhere else...but the real reason the grass looks kinda yellow where you are is because you have chosen to piss all over it. What are YOU doing to improve YOUR life that is totally unrelated to women? What do you have in your life to be HAPPY about? If you don't have anything then find a hobby or past-time that makes you happy. Do things that make you feel good instead of focusing so much of your energy on things that make you feel liks sh*t. Honestly...unless you are PROACTIVE about going out and making yourself happy you are never going to enjoy your life and are always going to be hung up on negativity. Life is too damn short for that. Why do you insist on wallowing in self-pity and despair? There is so much more life has to offer if you just stop focusing on all the anti-feminism crap. When was the last time you went hiking in the woods? Went to the ocean and ran barefoot at the water's edge? When was the last time you took a few minutes to take in the beauty all around you?

Damn it wayword...you are on a path to self-destruct and are wasting your time in the world doing just the opposite of what you should be doing. You have the CHOICE to be happy and you're choosing not to be. Is that really what you want for yourself?

 

[Mr.Positive]

Wayword, I have to say I agree with what you are saying, but you have to realize that the only people that will understand are people that have travelled and experienced it firsthand.

I used to be a major AFC "nice guy", and my confidence with women was horrible because I kept getting dumped on so much. It wasn't until I travelled over to Europe and it was a huge eye opener. I met a few amazing women that changed my life. I didn't have to use techniques to impress them, or flaunt a fancy car or clothes or be "cool", they were totally into me, for me being me. I was a huge confidence boost, and I realized, hey, I'm a pretty great guy. I don't need to spend my life trying to impress people, I treat people how I'd like to be treated with respect and dignity.

I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing women here, but honestly, all the DJ tips on this site (with the expection of the ones to make us better people in general) you wouldn't even need them in other places in the world. Not just American men travelling, but all men. It seems that women here will sit and wait for that great guy to come into their lives, so we need all these pickup attraction tips or else we wouldn't get dates. Women would not know you are a great guy unless you take the initiative. If you travel to other places, you will see that there seems to be a little more equality in the mating game actually, women are more likely to seek out and find quality guys. And when they do find you, they will fight hard to keep you. Of course, the catch is that you will most likely have to permanently relocate. Anyone who says that foreign women are all subservient has no clue and is just discriminating.

There's no right or wrong here, just differences that I've personally experienced.

 

[blueguy]

I've seen this type of thread brought up about three or four times in a few weeks. These type of treads are counterproductive to this forum since the aim is usually validation for lack of success. Options to the dilemma are usually dismissed. Success is hard, understandably so, and a lot of it is based even on sheer luck, but complaining about it is counterproductive to the don juan philosophies this site teaches. str8up is right about one thing, the most common thread in truly successful people is an optimistic attitude, an ability to wipe yourself off and make another sales pitch when your last 100 have been shut down.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I don't think this thread is counterproductive at all. I think it's a positive thing to encourage people, both men and women, to travel and experience what life is like outside the states. It's about expanding your knowledge and understanding of life, and growing as in individual. I've had great experiences, such as a leisurely stroll down the seine river in Paris with a pretty french gal in my arms. Travelling has had a huge positive impact on my life, both with dealing with women and pursuing my goals. That's what this thread is about, minus the negative undertones. If waywords goal is to relocate abroad, I'm not going to judge that, but I will put in my experiences. He has a right to be happy with his life, just as everyone else. If he is not finding what he's looking for here, what's wrong with looking at other options?

 

[Wyldfire]

Traveling for the sake of traveling is fine. Claiming that men can't find a good woman in the U.S. is a defeatist attitude and IS very counterproductive. Economically speaking...the U.S. is about the best place to live. The reason foreign women are so receptive to American men is for that reason...they place a high value on financial stability because in most of these countries there isn't the same opportunities as there are in the U.S.

If an American man's only goal in life is to get a piece of ass then fine...they should move elsewhere. However, I would certainly hope that men here have learned that placing a piece of ass that high on their priority list makes for a very empty life.

The problem with threads like this is that it is negative and discouraging to the men who like living here in the USA. It's also not a fair, balanced or adequate representation of the truth. It implies that it's just women in the US who are too demanding and have unrealistic expectations...yet the very fact that these threads are posted are a clear indication that perhaps the men on here are too demanding and have their own share of unrealistic expectations. Change begins with oneself...and when positive change from within comes...good things tend to follow.

If a person is unhappy with their ability to attract good women then the first place to look for a solution is within himself...to fix his own shortcomings and flaws and improve his life. Good women are looking for good men. If you want the best possible woman then you need to become the best possible man. One can't do that if they are blaming women rather than improving themselves.

 

[Kid Quick]

If he is not finding what he's looking for here, what's wrong with looking at other options?

Exactly. I find most single American women to be fat dullards who cannot converse about topics beyond who's banging who on Grey's Anatomy or where they're going to shop and shove food/drinks down their throats. This is just an observation -- I've realized complaining about it accomplishes nothing except to make one bitter.

I'm looking for work and quality and quantity of women is one factor in my decision where to go. I've always felt out of sync with America's consumer/status driven ME culture and maybe it's time for a change.

 

[blueguy]

I don't think this thread is counterproductive at all. I think it's a positive thing to encourage people, both men and women, to travel and experience what life is like outside the states. It's about expanding your knowledge and understanding of life, and growing as in individual. I've had great experiences, such as a leisurely stroll down the seine river in Paris with a pretty french gal in my arms. Travelling has had a huge positive impact on my life, both with dealing with women and pursuing my goals. That's what this thread is about, minus the negative undertones. If waywords goal is to relocate abroad, I'm not going to judge that, but I will put in my experiences. He has a right to be happy with his life, just as everyone else. If he is not finding what he's looking for here, what's wrong with looking at other options?

That's not what this thread started as. The OP and others have made threads about the inability to find women with the solutions usually being dismissed and more excuses being made. I myself have personaly relocated where there are more opportunities, here in the US (huge college), and location can indeed help significantly. Success really is a numbers game and too many people let inevitable failure inappropriately bruise their egos and block future attempts. I think the OP should move if he is not around other people near his age and also not autmatically dismiss those 20-25 year olds as seems to be the case. I dont understand it either. I'd much rather date a 20 year old than a 27 year old. Also leaving ones family, friends, and the many opportunities found in the US not found elsewhere should heavily be taken into consideration as girls can only take a certain signicance in ones life.

 

[Slickster]

Squirrels

It's been awhile Squirrels how ya doing?

Listen man, you know that I respect you but I'm here to give you a little boot in the arse friend.

I hear the same crap from all my single buddies ALL the time. "There's no good women around!" Blah blah blah....

I'm 35 this year with a live-in gf and I still meet hot 20 somethings all the time. Just last week I was at a pub with a few bros. One guy is single and I offered to wing for him if he wanted to go talk to the table full of hotties right next to us. He was too chickenshyt so I went over by myself and brought them ALL over to our table.

I don't think you have trouble meeting women but maybe you are running in the wrong circles??? Are you stuck meeting women in the bar scene?

To say there are no good women around is bullshyt! I can think of about half a dozen that I would go after tomorrow if me and my girl split. Its all about attitude man. You're only 27 dude! You have all the time in the world to meet Miss Right and believe me she's out there.

Saying that all the good women are gone is a losing attitude. Sure it might come from frustration and that's fair but nothing is easy. So quit with the beatching boys.

STR8UP has the right attitude. 35 and just getting started.

Slick

 

[Mr.Positive]

Wyldfire, I agree with you that you should travel for the sake of learning and experiencing new things, not to meet women. That is the best advice to anyone thinking of travelling abroad. Good women can be found anywhere but you have to find them. But saying you need to relocate because your goal is to get a piece of ass, is just wrong. If a piece of ass is what you want, you can get that here at any bar.

Anyone that travels extensively will realize that there is a lot of good places to live in this world, and most people actually love their countries as much as we love ours. As americans, we are not better than them. We may be better off financially, however, from my experiences, there is less emphasis on monetary possessions as a goal to happiness. The less afluent countries rely more on family more.

This may not help the OP, but we all get stuck in a rut occassionaly, and travelling is a great way to shake things up to get out of it.

 

[bigjohnson]

People acquire baggage as they move through life. Women are often told by the western world that their issues are some mans fault and they believe it in some cases - I think that's the problem.

That and they end up with kids and a lot of guys don't want to raise someone else's kids. Really, where's the genetic payoff in it?

 

[Wyldfire]

I have been spending most of my discussion time in my Trauma, Sexual Abuse and Recovery class trying to encourage women to take responsibility for their own choices and not to play the blame game and tell them that it is unhealty to embrace victimhood by blaming men for everything bad that happens to women. I come here and do the exact same thing telling men not to blame women.

The key to happiness with yourself, your life and your outlook on life is SELF-RESPONSIBILITY. If a man learns only ONE thing from this site...that should be it. Once you learn to master that, every other challenge in life becomes quite simple.

 

[Vulpine]

Uh...

Hmm...

I really don't know how to explain this, and I'll probably get some flames for it's similarity to "Save-a-Ho" behavior, but try to follow:

Noone's perfect.

You're not perfect. No woman is perfect. That is why many agree that there is no such thing as a HB10.

Right? RIGHT?

So... whatcha gonna do? Disqualify a woman for a couple flags? Well, I've caught myself with some nearly "unrealistic" expectations of what I want in a woman. ...or were they?

The thing is, women aren't unlike ourselves before we found this site. These "low quality" women may actually be "in the raw" or "unpolished". See, we trained ourselves to be "more valuable", correct? Well, women need to be trained, just as we did/do.***

I have found that, in any relationship that I've ever been in, there is a certain amount of learning and training back-and-forth between the man and woman. Each has to become accustomed to the other's idiosyncrasies, and each has to learn the other's preferences.

What's to say you can't incorporate your own preference of how the woman should be/act/think into the training?

Right, nothing. It happens all the time: whether you realize or not. We as DJ's already punish/reward, push/pull, etc. Don't you think you have the skills to polish a woman, or, help her evolve past the "Barbie clone" lifestyle?

So my point is, you don't go to the pet store and buy a puppy that sits, shakes, and fetches the slippers already: you have to train it. Find a woman you like, has demonstrated high IL, you get along with well, have many similar outlooks as, and have developed deep rapport with, rah-rah-rah... and sculpt her to your needs. Ever hear the expression "putty in your hands"? :yes:

Women are plugged into a matrix just as we were, hence the apparent "lack of good women" gripes. Who's going to "unplug" them? Nobody. Ever. She'll get knocked up, married, old, bitter, fat, divorced, etc... and she'll still be plugged in.

I'm not suggesting that anyone settle for a "fixer-upper", I'm only suggesting that some things aren't (or at least needn't be) disqualifiers. Who hasn't met women that were awesome except for a few skewed attitudes or unrealistic viewpoints/goals? We all have.

Unlike "saving a ho", "training a ho" is more like impressing upon them your viewpoints/goals and attitudes. Men lead women, and as such should lead them into their realities. If it's my way or the highway, an interested/attracted woman will gladly conform. It really happens naturally anyway, so it's easy to make a conscious addition to the behavioral modifications.

Then again, it is somewhat "attention intensive", and requires a certain advanced level of communication and commitment that many men just don't care to dedicate the energy towards, so they say "NEXT" in hopes of finding the "complete package".

You want pre-trained pets? Go to the animal shelter. But, keep in mind, they were at the shelter because they were unwanted/abandoned by the previous owner, or neglected, or abused, or perverted/corrupted (chances are, they're damaged goods). At some point you'll realize that it may be better to just invest the time in training a young one.

I'm not advocating anything contrary to plate theory or that you should rescue women from bad situations. I'm not even telling you to fix a broken woman. I'm saying, once you've been honest with yourself about what you desire in a woman, you also have to be honest with yourself about which of those things are things that you can mold, instill, reverse, nurture, promote, or create out of thin air. You need to be critical about what you would consider "broken" versus "bent". You can straighten something that's bent, but you have to replace something that's broken.

Just food for thought.


***Granted, there are some who will have trained themselves to not be the female equivalent of the AFC (and even more that would jump up and down swearing they have, but haven't) Shall we refer to these female equivalents as "AWB's"? Average Worthless B!tches? In all likelihood, there should be just as many of these recovering average worthless b!tches, if not more, than rAFC's.