Do you guys find attractive, single, undamaged women at this age?

[Wyldfire]

Vulpine is *almost* right...he's got the correct premise...that you can somewhat control another person's behavior...but unlike a pet puppy, you can't expect for a person to always do the same things you like all the time without a certain amount of effort put forth by yourself. This is the concept of effectively LEADING your relationship. I do this myself in all of my relationships (once I figured out I could after leaving my ex husband) and it is highly effective. If you learn to do this and do it for the right reasons and only to benefit your relationship and not just benefit yourself...you will be able to have a fantastic, healthy relationship with most people. There are always some people who are just too loopy to even bother with, though.

To be able to do this you need a high Emotional Intelligence. We all hear of IQs...well, there is also EQ and with some research and practice it is the single most powerful asset a person can have when it comes to interpersonal relationships. Women are easier to lead because most women are reactive to whatever the man they are involved with does or says. Most men don't recognize this, but most of the time a woman you are involved with does something that pisses you off you can almost always track it back to her reacting to something that you did that bothered her. Certain things men can do will almost universally get a specific response from a woman...and if you guys learned how to utilize this fact it would give you an incredible amount of power in your relationships.

 

[Phyzzle]

I must point out, if Squirrels had just been dumped last week, he would be right here making a thread about how American women have no loyalty, how it's impossible to stay in a monogamous relationship with an ADD girl, that they just jump from branch to branch, never knowing what they're looking for . . .

Anyway, a few statements I think most of us would agree upon (maybe):

1. Zillions of people get into a hard core monogamous relationship the first week of the freshman year of college (myself included), and spend a year or two not looking at other options, and it's just silly, man.

2. Eastern European and Brazillian women really are generally vastly better. Normally, no, they're not just putting on a show for American guys to get a visa.

A cursory survey of Ex-pats living in Europe, Russian guys living in America, or Obesity stats, or psychiatric medication stats, will make this obvious to anyone who wants to dedicate a few hours of searching.

3. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're not being a whiny little bytch if you choose move out of Baltimore, if you're really convinced that the female population flat-out sucks there.

 

[STR8UP]

I
STR8UP has the right attitude. 35 and just getting started.

Slick

I couldn't in a million years have imagined how the tables could have turned like this with women when I hit my 30's.

But at the same time I can feel where squirrels is coming from. It is really, REALLY hard to find dateable women.

Are my expectations unrealistic? Maybe, but I'm not gonna lower the bar to accommodate what's in my immediate vicinity. It's not worth it. It's a game of give and take. And I'm not prepared to get involved with a woman who doesn't bring more into my life than she takes away.

I set my bar based upon the value that I place on myself.

Intelligent- check
Ambitious- check
Good looking- so I've been told
Funny- dry sense of humor, but I can manage

Oh yea, and I'm also one of the most honest and loyal people you will ever meet.

So, I consider myself a "catch". Call me narcissistic, but that's the way it is. And as such, my standards are high for a relationship. I'll be single forever before I allow a substandard chick to weasel her way into a permanent place in my life.

 

[STR8UP]

Great post, Vulpine.

I don't remember hearing a theory quite like that before, but it kind of ties in with being a "real man" to the point where you are able to recognize the deficiencies inherent to women who don't know any better (most of them) and are able to use your DJ superpowers to compensate.

You really are on to something here. Everyone has their flaws. The better of a man YOU are, the more you are able to coax and lead the relationship.

It's the same in business. If you have the intelligence, wisdom, and especially the psychological advantage of being able to influence people, you can have the world in the palm of your hand.

The biggest problem with this is the fact that the main problem I personally have with women is LOYALTY.

I find a "great" girl who adores me, would basically jump in front of a bullet for me, then we hit a rocky patch in our relationship and all of a sudden I find out she's over at some dude's house at 3am watching movies. But he's just a "friend". Yea, right.

This is one flaw that can't be fixed. And the worst part about it is that sometimes you don't know what a person is capable of until the sh!t actually hits the fan two years in.

I'm all about tweaking your woman. I just want to figure out how to judge a woman's integrity level a little sooner in the relationship. Any ideas on how to do that?

 

[TooColdUlrick]

only the top 1% are worthy of my time for an LTR. they are out there. but most guys are hunting for bronze, not gold. gold is more valuable and harder to find, but it's there...you just have to know where to look.

i would really love to be a fly on the wall in wyldfire's psycho-chick class she's enrolled in. assuming that only 1/8 are "worthy", how many of these are fat, ugly, old, and/or stupid?

 

[ScrewIt]

Underage poster in the Mature Man forum. Poster is 21

 

[Wyldfire]

only the top 1% are worthy of my time for an LTR. they are out there. but most guys are hunting for bronze, not gold. gold is more valuable and harder to find, but it's there...you just have to know where to look.

i would really love to be a fly on the wall in wyldfire's psycho-chick class she's enrolled in. assuming that only 1/8 are "worthy", how many of these are fat, ugly, old, and/or stupid?

I can answer that for you...this is all single women, regardless of their circumstances:

Two of the most screwed up ones are both overweight and not attractive. Three of them are "thick"...meaning curvy but not fat, and quite pretty faces, outgoing and funny. Another 6 are fairly thin and none are ugly...some are prettier than others. There is a tall and a little overweight one who isn't ugly but isn't really very feminine (no makeup). One of the really messed up ones is built like an female athlete. One of the thin ones is a lesbian (her mother is a friend of mine) and I'm pretty sure a second one of the thin ones is a lesbian as well because she is very masculine.

The two in the class that air out ALL of their personal garbage throughout the class are the two unattractive and overweight women. One of them I wanted to throw something at after she announced to the class at least 20 times in 2 and a half hours that her daughter was a lesbian and her ex husband is a cop and used to beat her. I'm not even exaggerating. I have a feeling that if she continues I am going to end up telling her to STFU and go get a therapist because the rest of us are there to learn and it's not her personal support group.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

The two in the class that air out ALL of their personal garbage throughout the class are the two unattractive and overweight women. One of them I wanted to throw something at after she announced to the class at least 20 times in 2 and a half hours that her daughter was a lesbian and her ex husband is a cop and used to beat her. I'm not even exaggerating. I have a feeling that if she continues I am going to end up telling her to STFU and go get a therapist because the rest of us are there to learn and it's not her personal support group.

very interesting because her life sounds like it's peaches and cream compared to your history.

"I have a feeling that if she continues I am going to end up telling her to STFU and go get a therapist because the rest of us are there to learn and it's not her personal support group"

and you wonder why guys on here feel the same way about you? how many times do we have to hear about your fvcked up life?

physician heal thyself... you give the worst advice in the world.

***just thought that was really really sadly ironic in a twisted psycho-chick way***

 

[Last Man Standing]

Do you guys find attractive, single, undamaged women at this age?

The answer to this question is simple!! Once a girl loses her virginity she is damaged goods, mentally and physically!! There are hundreds of millions of examples of this - just look out your window!

 

[Phyzzle]

Does anyone else picture Last Man Standing as having a long, gray, grizzled beard, and a wild look in his eyes?

 

[Wyldfire]

very interesting because her life sounds like it's peaches and cream compared to your history.

"I have a feeling that if she continues I am going to end up telling her to STFU and go get a therapist because the rest of us are there to learn and it's not her personal support group"

and you wonder why guys on here feel the same way about you? how many times do we have to hear about your fvcked up life?

physician heal thyself... you give the worst advice in the world.

***just thought that was really really sadly ironic in a twisted psycho-chick way***

This is a site for giving advice and input...and people learn from the experiences and advice of others. It's appropriate to talk about past experiences here...it's NOT appropriate to turn a class people pay over $1000 for into a personal support group.

Also...the main reason I talk about my past is because after sharing it when appropriate some of you flame me and post crap that isn't true...so I correct it. And I've learned from my past...and haven't repeated it. It's not the sh*t life throws at you that makes you a mess...it's not wiping it off and moving on that makes you a mess.

I actually spend most of that class trying to defend men against the teacher, who appears to be a feminist.

If you were a fly on the wall in that class you would acquire a tremendous amount of respect for me and would feel like an idiot for the assumptions you make about me.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Life is not easy, it's all about how much crap you can take and how you handle it. If a woman has had a rough road with the men she has been with, she has two choices, she can fill with hate, blame others, and be miserable the rest of her life. Or she will look at you and be more grateful she is with a great guy like yourself.

The fact that Wyldfire has had some tough experiences, think about. She spends her time trying to help others, trying to make a difference. She takes her time, which is valuable, to help battered women. She also takes her time to post and try and help guys, on an anonymous message board, how to deal with women. And, might I add, getting constantly flamed while at it.

IMO, flaming someone that's honestly trying to help is like kicking a guy in the balls when he's done. Keep up the good work Wyldfire, you do make a difference.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Troops,


Vulpine's post was ON POINT. And he eloquently put into words what's WRONG with some of the soldier's mindsets on here. Far too often, men are encouraged on here to be trigger-happy when they fire off their "NEXT!" guns.

Some, I believe, would be better served if they realized that holding a woman up to an UNREALISTIC standard is a set up for failure. And despite how many times men repeat "I AM THE PRIZE" over and over to themselves, this ALONE is not enough to make it so.

We are ALL damaged goods in some way or another----either by default or by someone else's design. And Maturity and wisdom are the guideposts we should use when it comes to deciding whether our preconceived (and somtimes LOFTY) ideals we have for women are either working FOR or AGAINST our cause.

HONEST Self evaluation is our best chance of knowing when we should stand our ground, or "get OVER ourselves." How MANY of us here have the guts, the maturity, and THE BALLS to do this????

A widely-stretched variation of The Golden Rule is applicable here when it comes to attraction:

In order to attract AND KEEP the kind of woman that you want into your life, you have to be willing AND ABLE to be the kind of man that THAT kind of woman is attracted to and WANTS to keep.

A man who wants a sexually experienced woman SHOULDN'T be surprised if he attracts SLUTTS into his life.

A man who wants a sexually chaste woman SHOULDN'T be surprised if he attracts a woman into his life that thinks sex is NOT a big priority in a relationship.

And a man who wants a highly intelligent, politically-minded woman SHOULDN'T be surprised if he attracts a woman into his life that likes to spend a lot of her time debating "the issues" or watching the Discovery Channel.

You see, to be attracted to someone for a reason, and THEN to eventually dislike them for that SAME reason is a form of NEUROTIC behavior. BALANCE is the key to all things in life.

And again, no one here is condoning rushing wholeheartedly into ONEitis with a worthless chick. But instead, I believe what IS being condoned here is to consider continuing to work with a chick who is consistently hitting in FAR MORE areas than she is missing.

Understand this:

Attraction based on COMPARTMENTALIZATION is the cause of much of the disappointment and BOREDOM in many relationships. The more HOLISTIC our attraction to any person is, the less disappointed and the less bored we will be in their presence over time.

A more holistic view of the woman you're dating and/or considering having a LTR with is NECESSARY when it comes to making a wise decision as to whether or not you should keep her around or not. To paraphrase what Vulpine seemed to intimate in his post:

There is a difference between being a Captain Save-a-HO and being a MAN who chooses to CONTINUE to work with a woman who has ALREADY lived up to some of her potential thus far.

I have found (over a period of time) that The Value Recognition Factor works BOTH ways.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=108236

When you recognize your TRUE value, your assessments of YOURSELF and the women you meet are far more honest, and REALISTIC. And you will find yourself not only refusing to settle for LESS, but you will also STOP self-sabotaging, and NIT-PICKING yourself out of a girl that could be good for you just because she is not PERFECT.


Hope this helps SOMEONE...


Peace...one day.

 

[wayword]

Ironically...there are very few men who attend my college. I'm in my third MOD and have taken 6 classes so far. There have been less than 10 men total in those classes. This is not a hard school to get into. In fact, the only way you don't get in is if the administration things you aren't ready. There is also a law enforcement program, Business, Accounting...and very few men still.

Uh, not ironic at all. Men are too busy actually making money than blowing it on worthless soft degrees...

It used to be that people went to graduate school as a surefire way to achieve the American Dream. Today, graduate school generally makes young people less employable, not more employable.

For example, people who get a graduate degree in the humanities have little chance of getting a tenured teaching job.

And when it comes to an MBA, the value of the degree plummets if it's not from a top school, even though the cost of the degree continues to skyrocket. So instead of opening doors for you, the degree in many ways forces you to settle for a job that pays well enough to pay back your student loans.

Law school results in one of the few graduate degrees that can make you more employable. Unfortunately, it makes you more employable in a profession in which people are unhappy. Law school rewards perfectionism, while law practice rewards good sales skills.

This dichotomy, combined with the reality that practicing law isn't all that glamorous, means that law school should be something you do only if you're driven to -- it's not the safety net indecisive career seekers wish it was.

When it comes to real hard degrees that are actually worth something - like engineering - men still faaarrrr outnumber women.

As far as having to train AW - yup, you are damn right they must be trained (if that's even possible). They are NOT turnkey solutions like women abroad who have already been trained properly by their families, culture & society.

 

[Vulpine]

It got me thinking a lot about the LTR I'm in right now. Although there are a few things here and there I would change, there are a TON of positives I've been hard pressed to find in anyone else.

My current involvment has many positives that I've been looking for. The other night she didn't follow through with plans (essentially flaked), and told her how she fvcked up. I kicked her out of my bed and made her sleep in her own room... for about a week. I had enough of that sh!t, and was gearing up fully prepared to boot her because she wouldn't genuinely admit any wrongdoing. She was going with the "I'm mad at you" thing, so I withdrew my attention. Someone asked me: "oh, is that your girlfriend?" I shrugged and said, "Roommate."

Finally:

..."Are you going to kick me out? Just tell me, and I'll leave. ...I, I just don't know how to act. This is all so new to me. I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing, and I'm always making you upset. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells whenever I'm around you."

This threw me because she not only acknowledged my power/control, she forfeited any and all power she might have had. (And threw in some IL indication at the same time) I win? Of course I win.

So, I took the keys and went for a little test drive...

V: "Hmm... ...I see. I'd imagine I'm not like other guys you've been with."

"Not at all... and I don't want you to leave me."

V: "Awww... So, let me get this straight: you want me to train you to not be such a retard?"

"Heey! I'm not a retard!"

V: *clears throat* "Well?"

"I guess that IS what I'm asking."

V: "Okay, then, Retard. When I start airing my grievances with you, rather than arguing or taking things as attacks and freaking out, you are going to need to try to see my point and see how you are being retarded. And, acknowledge that you were retarded - because I wouldn't have bothered to say anything if it wasn't an issue."

"Ok."

V: *mildly irritated, stern tone* "You say 'OK' now, but, next time, when I just shut up and look at you, are you going to take the cue? Are you going to shut up and think instead of flipping out emotional-style trying to needlessly defend yourself?"

"I'll try."

V: *looking at her, not saying anything*

"I will." *smile*

V: "Wow, you AREN'T a retard! Good job! I'm going to hold you to that."

It was quite a shocking interaction. I would have never before imagined standing up and demanding/holding my ground like that before in an LTR. And, I have never really watched a woman roll-over and acknowledge her position (supplicate) quite like that.

Putty in my hands?

So later, she did someting retarded...

V: (repremands)

"Oh, sure, ok, DAD."

V: *looking at her, not saying anything*

"Sorry. You're right, I'm a retard."

V: *changes to scowl (I didn't care for her passive-aggressive tone), still not saying anything*

"Ok, ok, sorry. I get it."

V: *****s head/raises eyebrows as if 'oh, really?'*

*sigh* "I'm not a retard and... (reitterates the logic behind my rempremand to demonstrate she got it)"

V: *gives her a hug, goes on about business*

The more I've been thinking about it, I'm sort of treating her like a teenager. I could sort of feel guilty, but I'm essentially training her that when I'm p!ssed, she's ALWAYS wrong.

Wait... which, really, IS how it is instead of the woman always being right no matter what... so I'm going to quit feeling guilty right... about...

Now.

I cite these examples to demonstrate training. She shows me that she wants to do right by me, and I show her how to do it. The raport and verbage will be different for everyone, but once you establish the frame and snap the shock collar on, women begin to sit, shake, and fetch the slippers like they always knew how.

So cute... just like a little puppy! I just have to work on "speak only when prompted" and I'll have a dream girl! :rockon:

 

[wayword]

^ Hilarious and awesome! Although also pathetic that she had gotten away with such divaness for sooo loonngggg with no one demanding any better.

This is a top problem I have in this country - every ex-bf is a total AFC wussbag who let her do whatever the hell she wanted!

Anyhow, sometimes you do have to force women to stop their old ways - to where they're byching and screaming and pissed to all hell - just to get them to try the new way. Which they will then like because it's better!

But they won't know that until they are forced to try it...

 

[Vulpine]

Anyhow, sometimes you do have to force women to stop their old ways - to where they're byching and screaming and pissed to all hell - just to get them to try the new way. Which they will then like because it's better!

But they won't know that until they are forced to try it...

Right. And it is in this regard that "being a DJ" is sort of a catch 22.

We demand better, but... our demands are seemingly unrealistic. Then of course, there's the "overseas appeal".

Well, we say here "A man TAKES what he wants." That's cool, but if there's nothing around that you want to take...

There is a "glass ceiling" of sorts.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Does anyone else picture Last Man Standing as having a long, gray, grizzled beard, and a wild look in his eyes?

Hahaha, like the dude on the cover of the "Chessmaster" chess game!

 

[wayword]

Right. And it is in this regard that "being a DJ" is sort of a catch 22.

We demand better, but... our demands are seemingly unrealistic. Then of course, there's the "overseas appeal".

Well, we say here "A man TAKES what he wants." That's cool, but if there's nothing around that you want to take...

There is a "glass ceiling" of sorts.

Exactly, but the overseas option actually kills 2 birds with 1 stone:

1) You get a much better product.
2) You are passively forcing other women here to shape up by "defecting" to better competition and raising the bar. This is the real trump card for any relationship - you leaving for something better. When that happens and a girl is stuck ALONE - that's when she reallly realizes that she f'd up - and simply better SHAPE UP or stay SHIPPED OUT. If you read some blogs by ex-pat WOMEN, you will find them full of bitter rage, desperation and ultimately regret over how they used to treat men. Because they are perpetually alone and no one wants to put up with their shyt anymore when they are flooded with better, willing options! Now, these "poor" divas no longer have a line of servile AFCs waiting to be used and abused by them. Waaaahhhhmbulance! All of a sudden, they find themselves on the short end of the stick and IT HURTS! :crackup:

 

[Vulpine]

Exactly, but the overseas option actually kills 2 birds with 1 stone:

1) You get a much better product.
2) You are passively forcing other women here to shape up by "defecting" to better competition and raising the bar.

Now, what are the odds that western women will arrive at the place you describe on their own? Ex-pat blogs are one thing, but what are the chances they'll move overseas or see the folly of their ways before they're say, 40?

Pretty slim, really.

And what are the odds of me reloacating overseas?

Pretty slim, really.

So, it looks like I have to find a way to make lemonade.

Good stuff Vulpine, that's how it should be. Gotta ask though, how long have you been involved before pulling this stuff?

Us? Uh... four months or so. The backstory is a little muddy, but, I could've and SHOULD'VE established the frame much, MUCH sooner. Like, right when I realized she might have been a keeper. No, skip that, I should've got this frame cranking from the start, regardless of known quality.

What can I say? I've been evolving myself, so I really wasn't at a point where I could help anyone else evolve, much less fully understood what/where I was going with it. Follow?

It all sort of "jumped up and bit me" with her... it took a while to realize that, unbeknownst to me, she had a lot of characteristics I had been looking for. Really, more like "characteristics I should've been looking for". I was put off and booted her, then bumped into her again, then saw some things I didn't see before because I was too busy DISQUALIFYING instead of asking the questions that REALLY mattered. Her qualities just sort of emerged instead of them being actively searched for and found. Doh!

Regardless of our outcome, I am learning a LOT from this relationship. This is my first new, worthwhile "LTR" relationship since having been exposed to this DJ business.

Oh, and she knows there are plates spinning themselves quietly in the background willing to show up at my doorstep at the touch of the "send" button.