DJ Alpha Male PERSONIFIED!

[blueguy]

Wyldfire is redefining what Alpha means to suit the terms of her argument.

Alpha NOW means "the best man/woman who can survive on an island alone."

It is no longer used as an adjective meaning "first" or "best" without context.

Take note everybody!

 

[Wyldfire]

Oh for the love of Pete...pay attention...

I used the illustration of putting people on a desert island to strip away all the material possessions, money, etc that so many of you confuse as defining alpha. Money does NOT determine whether or not someone is alpha...it just determines how much money they have.

 

[wayword]

Alpha NOW means "the best man/woman who can survive on an island alone."

But even if we use her Survivor analogy...the winner is not always the best survivalist. When you factor in social gaming and game theory, as well as a million other variables, it doesn't come down to just raw physical skills. The past winners all reflect different attributes.

In the latest one, Yul narrowly beat out Ozzy, who was the best raw survivalist on that show, and perhaps ever. Yul was a close 2nd, but also had better social gaming, which gave him the slight edge. But any guy could be alpha on any given day. It's a constantly-shifting status that's all relative.

 

[STR8UP]

If you have to use the term so and so is an alpha "when" then they aren't an alpha. They are either always an alpha or they are not.

The deserted island example was used as a way to illustrate that whoever would be the one who ran the show when all the money, politics, material possessions and anything else other than presence of character and personality is the alpha male OR female. They wouldn't necessarily be the strongest person...but they would not only be able to survive but others would look to them first and follow what they were doing to help themselves survive. That is what being alpha means.

Bill Gates is NOT an alpha...he's smart, but again...if you took away his money and stuck him on an island even with me, I would be leading his arse. He'd be playing with his Palm Pilot while I was building a fire to cook the fish I caught to eat in the shelter I built. He'd be begging me for food, warmth and shelter. I'd say sorry Bill, I prefer Macintosh...

You keep using this deserted island example as if the only way to determine social hierarchy is to strip away everything in the modern world and look at it from a basic survival standpoint. I don't agree at all. Who do you know that has ever lived on a deserted island?

10,000 years ago you would have been more correct, but as another poster mentioned you still have to factor in social adeptness. It wasn't all about basic survival skills. And today you have to factor a lot more into the equation.

Does money automatically make an alpha? No. Neither does fame, Neither does strong social skills. But any and all of these things CAN equate to power (whether real or perceived, it doesn't matter) which has the potential to make someone alpha in a given situation.

Someone mentioned Brad Pitt. In a restaurant or club in the US where there are no other celebs at the time he would likely be top dog as long as he was there. At any other time it might be the owner of the club. But when Brad walks in, all eyes are on him. He gets what he wants because people worship celebrities here.

Take Brad and put him on a plane and ship him to the middle of the Amazon jungle and the story changes 180 degrees. It's about WHERE as much as it is WHO.

It's funny cause I wrote most of this reply earlier today. Tonite I was reading an article about Ewan Mcgregor in Mens Jornal magazine where he talked about traveling to Mongolia and other remote places where he said something like "in these places it doesn't matter who you are it matters what you do".

Another example is when I visited eastern Europe. Just being AMERICAN gave me status over the locals. When I walked down the street the waitresses and shop girls would nearly break their necks looking my way when I walked by.

It's the funniest thing cause there are quite a few Americans living there, yet the people pretty much look up to all westerners and place them on a pedestal without even knowing them personally.

You wanna strip things down to basics? What does it mean to be an alpha?

It means being at the top of a social group. It means having access to resources and mating opportunities. It means commanding respect and wielding influence over other people.

Give me a better definition of "alpha", if you can.

 

[Wyldfire]

But even if we use her Survivor analogy...the winner is not always the best survivalist. When you factor in social gaming and game theory, as well as a million other variables, it doesn't come down to just raw physical skills. The past winners all reflect different attributes.

In the latest one, Yul narrowly beat out Ozzy, who was the best raw survivalist on that show, and perhaps ever. Yul was a close 2nd, but also had better social gaming, which gave him the slight edge. But any guy could be alpha on any given day. It's a constantly-shifting status that's all relative.

Oh manipulation definitely comes into play...and as a woman, I've got that all over Billy boy too. :crackup:

You guys need to loosen up your whitey tighties...you take sheeit WAY too seriously.

Being alpha isn't really all it's cracked up to be...it's a lot of pressure. Beta is a better place to be...less pressure. You just don't want to be an omega.

 

[Wyldfire]

Str8up...the point I'm trying to make here is that money, power, influence...none of that makes a person a TRUE alpha. It can make you rich, give you some power in some circles as well as influence...but when push comes to shove...true alphas, regardless of where they are, what resources they do or do not have...they still have the same presence they always have. They still stand out in a crowd, people still try to emulate the way they carry themselves and the overall "vibe" they give out. You can't buy that sheeit or learn it...it's either there, or it's not. Someone may actually be an alpha but grow up around a stronger alpha and then eventually branch out and "grow" into what they already were but was suppressed...but you can't talk or act your way into being alpha...and the guys here need to realize they don't have to. You don't need or really even want to be an alpha...you just don't want to be stuck being an omega. If a guy is beta then embrace that and be the best beta you can be...but so much time spent on trying to make yourself an alpha is just gay.

 

[RedPill]

Wyldfire, let me make sure I understand you correctly.

In your book, the only true, bona fide alpha male is a male with a large, brutish, physically dominant presence, whose stature commands respect simply because of the perceived power and fear it generates. A Paul Bunyan-esque character.

Is this a correct and succinct summary of how you define alpha male?

 

[Wyldfire]

Wyldfire, let me make sure I understand you correctly.

In your book, the only true, bona fide alpha male is a male with a large, brutish, physically dominant presence, whose stature commands respect simply because of the perceived power and fear it generates. A Paul Bunyan-esque character.

Is this a correct and succinct summary of how you define alpha male?

No, you don't understand me quite right. Alphaness has absolutely nothing to do with material things, money, job, etc. Power and Influence in various situations based on wealth, financial influence, political power are NOT aspects of alphaness.

Alpha is a presence, demeanor, way of carrying yourself, personality...and it exists at the very core of a person. It's not about brute strength or who can catch the biggest fish. I used the desert island comparison to try to better portray it as something far more basic than what you guys were looking at.

It's not about being the strongest...it's about being the most resilient and able to adapt to and face situations outside of your comfort zone. It's not about how book smart you are...it's about how instinctive you are and again...how well you adapt to unfamiliar situations. These things are not something you can learn...you are born with them and they exist deep down. They may lay dormant, may not be fully tapped...but they are either there or they are not. If a person does not have these inherent traits no amount of money, influence or power can obtain them. There MAY be some guys on here who are striving to become alpha who could have the untapped traits required to be one, but the odds are honestly against it. That is OK, though, because it's as much a curse as it is a blessing. People who adjust and deal well with things tend to get more of that kind of sheeit hurled at them in life. It can be a burden when people are constantly looking to you as a leader, because sometimes you just don't feel like it. Betas can be filthy rich, wield a variety of forms of power and influence...and can have wonderful lives, but they can't make themselves have the traits they simply weren't born with.

Hope that clears up what I am saying a bit better...

 

[Wyldfire]

Falcon...my writing style is a combination of persuasive and argumentative prose with my competitive debate background tossed in for good measure...which should explain why my posts sound as they do to you.

I don't respond to every post...if comments or questions are similar and I've already answered the question once in a post I've made it's not uncommon for me not to respond directly to someone.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Alpha is a presence, demeanor, way of carrying yourself, personality

soooo, Alpha Male is an image ??

it's about being the most resilient and able to adapt to and face situations outside of your comfort zone

soooooo Alpha Male is about being resourceful and flexible ??

I hope no one buys into this, You are in control of your own destiny...its ABSOLUTELY STUPID to think people are born Alpha / Beta / Omega...it is ABSOLUTELY STUPID to place yourself in any of these categories.

Everyone in this world makes a decision about the direction of their lives, asking someone for advice is not seeking leadership, I hope you can all understand the difference.

If you find yourself in a position where people are always seeking your leadership That would mean your life revolves around INSECURE IDIOTS, if that makes you think your alpha, then you are an Idiot among worse idiots (blind leading the blind). You should also be asking yourself what are you doing that puts you in a position of leadership over other people ??

Ex: I've got a buddy who can be an intimidating guy, has got presence, personality able to adapt to ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, dominates/AMOG any new situation with unfamiliar guys etc.... EVERYONE goes to him for advice/guidance/direction, EVERY GIRL he comes into contact with sucks and fcuks him on different days, even though he is married and the other girls know about his wife and each other, pretty much everything Wyldfire talks about that makes someone Alpha...But you have to look at the type of people that follow him.

VERY ATTRACTIVE women that fall for the perceived "bad boy/alpha male" or perhaps just looking for a fling. Guys who have no direction or options in life...or just don't know any better are the only people he keeps company with.

He is NOT able to keep friendships, he is a master at manipulation, He generally makes poor decisions himself.

I don't think he is an alpha male because I don't believe in the terms...I do think he surrounds himself / attracts certain types of people who don't have common sense or strength to make independent choices and/or are very gullible...there can be a whole other discussion why women go for him...but he would not have the ability to have an "Alpha male status" among people who make the choice to decide whats best for them on their terms...

 

[RedPill]

Okay, so now we're rolling with the MacGyver definition of alpha.

Wyld can you see why this gets some guys riled up here? It's so subjective and rooted in personal opinion that it defies rationality. In particular, the part about the capacity to develop adaptive qualities as a congenital trait.

This is a really a debate of 'destiny vs. free will' and your circular definition of alpha suggests that you favor destiny, which is a highly unpopular position to maintain on a forum that supports the idea of free will as one of its main tenets.

I don't believe in the concept of alpha, but I do believe in leaders and followers. Winners and losers. People who inspire through action and example, and those who resign their fate to circumstance. Life's about choices, and the choice to push the boundaries of your resourcefulness and adaptive capacity is one we make every day, consciously or unconsciously.

 

[STR8UP]

No, you don't understand me quite right. Alphaness has absolutely nothing to do with material things, money, job, etc. Power and Influence in various situations based on wealth, financial influence, political power are NOT aspects of alphaness.

Alpha is a presence, demeanor, way of carrying yourself, personality...and it exists at the very core of a person.

See, there's your problem. The definition of alpha, the ONLY definition that applies to this context is "being socially dominant". Look it up if you don't believe me.

Everything you listed above has the potential to increase a person's social dominance. None of these directly equates to dominance, but all of them are traits that are generally common to people who dominate.

You are making it out to seem like being alpha is a state of mind, an abstract concept, and it has nothing to do with that. It's 100% about how others perceive you at a given point in time.

Come to think of it last night was a perfect example.

I went out for a couple of hours last night and walked into a small club with 5 very attractive blondes. Some of my good friends were already there, so I knew quite a few people in the room, most of them women.

One of them was a chick who has had the hots for me for awhile now, and she immediately starts trying to seduce me, and she wasn't being subtle about it. A few more of my lady friends show up, so I am getting pulled in three different directions all night long. Later another chick comes up and introduces herself saying she noticed me earlier in the night and thought she knew me from somewhere (very original pickup line).

I wasn't consciously watching for this, but during the night I noticed a few guys who I didn't know watching me interact with all of these people. They all seemed to have a look on their faces that said "Dude, I wish I were YOU".

Put me in the club next door and everything would have been different, but at that time and place I was the master of the social scene, and that's the definition of alpha.

 

[Latinoman]

Angelina doesn't run over Brad. They are actually a good fit. And I don't see where he has lost any respect from men...you guys on here idolize the guy more than any women do. Personally, I don't think he's all that and I don't even find him to be as attractive as a lot of people seem to...but I don't like blonde haired and blue eyed men anyhow.

Two alphas together are still both alphas...one just usually has a stronger presence, and Angelina Jolie has a stronger presence than Brad Pitt, that's the bottom line. That just makes her a stronger woman...and it doesn't make him a weaker man.

Angelina was literally carrying blood on her necklace when she was with Billy Bob Thorton. And she was doing literally all the freakish stuff HE was getting her into (including the blood stuff).

Billy Bob is ALPHA.

Brad used to be alpha when he was in his past relationships...but his need (and desired) to have his own children...made him a Beta and AFC. Like STR8 said...he can still be an Alpha in some other elements (his element).

 

[Latinoman]

I mentioned in my post I was overtired...I was being a dork, as I said.

You guys tend to equate money with alphaness because you give an overblown sense of importance to wealth.

I don't equate $$$ with that as many men are born with money. There a LOT of NON-alpha men making $$$.

What determines how alpha they are...are their PEERS. And in the case of a $$$$ person...would be the "how" and not the "what".

 

[Latinoman]

You wanna strip things down to basics? What does it mean to be an alpha?

It means being at the top of a social group. It means having access to resources and mating opportunities. It means commanding respect and wielding influence over other people.

EXACTLY!

 

[Paradox]

Let's stick with this definition:

It means being at the top of a social group. It means having access to resources and mating opportunities. It means commanding respect and wielding influence over other people.

Thanks STR8UP.

Good topic guys.

The arguments are getting a bit circular. We'll put this one to bed....for now.