Can I save my LTR?

[cordoncordon]

Update?

 

[49au]

The status is that we are still single, taking space.

There have been a lot of developments and a lot of talking this out over the last 3 days. Sunday I had a nearly 4 hour talk with her.

Unfortunately I have been operating on assumptions, paranoia, ego, fear, and hurt. The only thing missing was... information. Yes, women often say what we want to hear. But in the conversation she said a lot of things that said much deeper things to me, and I honestly feel that I read between lines she didn't even realize she was drawing. In that conversation and by actually listening to her, I think I found a lot of answers and I am much more at peace, though we are both very sad.

So I think I am pretty clear on what is going on, how she feels, what caused the problems, and what could have been done differently.

I could write a LOT about what I've perceived and why I believe it's true. But I'm confident enough that I don't feel the need to anymore. Based on the conversations, and her obvious emotion, her actions over the last few days, and me knowing this girl for almost a year now, this is what I believe:

1) She is genuinely confused, sad, and guilty. If she had wanted to use me for a good time, nice dinners, and trips, she just wouldn't have said anything.

2) She does not want to go back to her ex and does not know why she still has feelings. She said that is not "normal" for her. She was just guilty that she still had feelings for him when she knew how serious we were getting, and felt that it wasn't fair to our relationship. She doesn't want these feelings; she just doesn't know how to handle them. My sister has talked to me a lot about this and her experience with the exact same situation, knowing one guy was absolutely perfect for her but still having overwhelming emotional ties to her POS ex who left her and who she knows is not right for her.

3) Her self esteem is shot. Her confidence in her worth as a companion is shot.

4) She needs space. We are on good terms, and I have still not tried to guilt trip her or talk down to her.

5) She has not moved past our relationship and hopes that one day she will wake up, realize why she is so confused, and we can fix things. She asked me again last night if I thought we could fix it. I know she doesn't want me to let go of her, but she knows that I am going to move on.

6) She has a cold blooded dedication to her career and will not let any guy in the way of it. Marriage is so scary to her right now because in a year's time she will likely be having to move away for a 3 year residency, where she will begin by working about 130 hours a week. She doesn't understand how love AND a career are possible at this point. She is scared she can't be the lover and the woman that I want in the midst of her final year of med school plus residency.



I appreciate all the advice in this thread. I will say for the benefit of those who may find themselves in my situation and read this, that some of the advice in here is great for building "attraction" in random sluts at a bar, or getting some girl who thinks she's too good for you to call her back.

I dated and/or slept with a lot of girls last year. And I felt little or nothing for all of them. But when I look at her I realize I would do anything to protect her and take care of her, and that being with her just feels right. If you find a woman that does this for you, sometimes you have to take the higher path and come from a place of understanding, empathy, love, and forgiveness. Every real relationship will have tests, temptations, and times of doubt. If you just go through life cutting off and throwing away everything that could hurt you, you are going to be a very sad human being in the end. Your woman is not always a lying slut. Sometimes she is a real human being with emotions she can't explain and doesn't know what to do with. And sometimes you can be her rock and lead her out of that place. Sometimes that is what she wants and needs. And other times, you just have to let her go and know that what you had was special, but as the old saying goes, "love is not enough."

Guys think in black and white. Cops and robbers. Cowboys and Indians. But in real life, it's not always that simple.

 

[cordoncordon]

The status is that we are still single, taking space.

There have been a lot of developments and a lot of talking this out over the last 3 days. Sunday I had a nearly 4 hour talk with her.

Unfortunately I have been operating on assumptions, paranoia, ego, fear, and hurt. The only thing missing was... information. Yes, women often say what we want to hear. But in the conversation she said a lot of things that said much deeper things to me, and I honestly feel that I read between lines she didn't even realize she was drawing. In that conversation and actually listening to her, I think I found a lot of answers and I am much more at peace, though we are both very sad.

So I think I am pretty clear on what is going on, how she feels, what caused the problems, and what could have been done differently.

I could write a LOT about what I've perceived and why I believe it's true. But I'm confident enough that I don't feel the need to anymore. Based on the conversations, and her obvious emotion, her actions over the last few days, and me knowing this girl for almost a year now, this is what I believe:

1) She is genuinely confused, sad, and guilty. If she had wanted to use me for a good time, nice dinners, and trips, she just wouldn't have said anything.

2) She does not want to go back to her ex and does not know why she still has feelings. She said that is not "normal" for her. She was just guilty that she still had feelings for him when she knew how serious we were getting, and felt that it wasn't fair to our relationship. She doesn't want these feelings; she just doesn't know how to handle them. My sister has talked to me a lot about this and her experience with the exact same situation, knowing one guy was absolutely perfect for her but still having overwhelming emotional ties to her POS ex who left her and who she knows is not right for her.

3) Her self esteem is shot. Her confidence in her worth as a companion is shot.

4) She needs space.

5) She has not moved past our relationship and hopes that one day she will wake up, realize why she is so confused, and we can fix things. She asked me again last night if I thought we could fix it. I know she doesn't want me to let go of her, but she knows that I am going to move on.

6) She has a cold blooded dedication to her career and will not let any guy in the way of it. Marriage is so scary to her right now because in a year's time she will likely be having to move away for a 3 year residency, where she will begin by working about 130 hours a week. She doesn't understand how love AND a career are possible at this point. She is scared she can't be the lover and the woman that I want in the midst of her final year of med school plus residency.

I "hope" I am reading this right and that you are moving on? Although it does really sound like you want to believe in her and what she says, and are willing to give her the benefit of the doubt no matter what. I can just hear that in what you are writing.

I really think you two need to stop having these long talks. I would advise stop talking about it with your family and friends as well. It almost sounds as if you are becoming obsessed with this whole ordeal. My brother did that once when his ex gf broke up with him. He wanted to talk about it all the time with her, me, his friends, other family members, to the point where that was all he thought about. He ended up going into deep depression and needed medication to come out of it.

So at this point, since she is still so "confused", even after you two have broken up and stayed broken up (that should speak volumes to you right there-she still is not willing to 100% commit even after all this), if I were you I would stop talking to her about it, stop talking to friends and family about it, stop even thinking about it. If you catch yourself starting to think on it, pinch yourself. Just stop everything to do with it and I think in a month or two you will both be much clearer of head and can do the right thing from there, whatever that is.

 

[49au]

I think you are getting the wrong impression. I am done talking about it with her. And by the way, she did tell me that we could get back together and work it out. But I could hear in her voice that she was still unsure. So I declined.

But I had a LOT of emotion invested in her and I needed an outlet for it. The long talk we had the other night was what I needed. I don't want or need it again.

It may sound like I am making excuses for her or willing to believe anything to make myself feel better. All I can tell you is that this is not true. I am confident enough to say that and let it be the end of it; besides, you really don't want me to write another novel length post in this thread do you? Because I could. I just don't think it's necessary.

I told her that I am not going to ignore her if she contacts me, but I am not going to contact her at all otherwise.

I am moving on. And again, while I really appreciate all the time and advice people invested in this thread, I don't think I should do much with it anymore.

 

[cordoncordon]

I think you are getting the wrong impression. I am done talking about it with her.

But I had a LOT of emotion invested in her and I needed an outlet for it. The long talk we had the other night was what I needed. I don't want or need it again.

I told her that I am not going to ignore her if she contacts me, but I am not going to contact her at all otherwise.

I am moving on.

Ahhh ok good for you. Glad to hear it. Everytime you start to miss her, just think of her having all those long email, phone, and text convo's with her ex, and also think of the fact that she STILL is confused, even with the threat of you being gone out of her life for good. That should be all you need to know.

Keep posting here, I enjoy your writing style.

 

[49au]

I edited my last two posts, by the way.

With regard to what you just said... I think that is a really juvenile, egocentric way of thinking. Not trying to be rude.

My sister went through this same situation. Not all women view residual feelings of attachment the same way you and I do. She helped me realize that. Men are logical; if I still have feelings for an ex, it doesn't matter as long as I am happy with the new girl. 1+1=2. For a woman, feelings for an ex can mean questioning everything about everything.

 

[49au]

Does it really matter one bit how she views anything???

What matters here is how the situation impacts you! Not how she feels about the whole thing. Do not get sucked into the black hole of a woman's murky feelings. They will only confuse you with the additional end result of you falling into her frame.

What truly matters is the logic of the situation, which amounts to the fact that she is unsure about you. Who gives one whit about her feelings in the matter. What really matters is that you do not waste anymore time on such a creature.

This is exactly why we are not together. I didn't say this to imply that it's OK to be with someone that is unsure.

I am moving on and already starting to talk to some old interests.

 

[cordoncordon]

Does it really matter one bit how she views anything???

What matters here is how the situation impacts you! Not how she feels about the whole thing. Do not get sucked into the black hole of a woman's murky feelings. They will only confuse you with the additional end result of you falling into her frame.

What truly matters is the logic of the situation, which amounts to the fact that she is unsure about you. Who gives one whit about her feelings in the matter. What really matters is that you do not waste anymore time on such a creature.

Bingo! 49 you are starting to fall into her trap, and as much as you can deny it, I can hear it in what you are saying, you want her back and will wait and do whatever is necessary to get her back. Don't say we didn't warn you. Trust me on this, and if its one thing you can take from this thread, its this.

WOMEN, when they want you, oh do they want you. There is no "confusion". There is no ex in the picture. No second guessing. It will be perfectly clear to you when someone is 100% for you and the relationship, and not just out for herself.

 

[49au]

You don't think I realize that the more I TALK to her and ask her questions about it, the more it kills attraction? You think I didn't know that by crying in front of her and showing how vulnerable I was that I would kill attraction?

I knew that and I did it anyway.

What does that tell you?

To move on, I needed to understand. This was not a god damn ONS to me where you just flip a switch and don't give a fvck about it anymore. I can internalize pain with the best of them, but I'm smart enough to know that it is not healthy. I want to leave no room for doubt, bitterness, and anger. But I am a logical person, and I need to have logical reasons why this could a) happen and b) I can stop it from happening again. Maybe that's crazy, but that's me.

I decided that understanding and moving on was more important to me than playing head games, not showing her any questioning or weakness or hesitancy so I could try to salvage the relationship for some later time. And when she did tell me two nights ago that we could be together again but I knew she was still confused, I said no. Not sure how that fits into your theory.

 

[JustinVerj]

I feel bad for you

This thread has made me join up. Personally? I think you have been given A TON of bad advice on this thread, especially by cornholecornhole. This girl obviously loves you very much. Yes, she was confused about things, who doesnt get confused at times in their lives? I will guarantee you that EVERY single long term relationship out there goes through tough times and confusion. Your relationship was only 8 months old, of course there are times she will compare you to her ex, especially this early into it. People who are in much longer relationships still do that. Its human nature and natural. It doesnt mean they want to leave you and go back. The people on this site are so jaded about women and relationships that they wont even acknowledge that sometimes instead of a woman being a cold hearted ***** they are just confused and unsure, just like men...we are all human beings. It doesnt mean they are cold, calculating, and evil. Your ex sounds like she had a ton of stress in her life and a couple of issues with you that would have been deal breakers with anybody else, but with you she was still willing to overlook them. What does that tell you? You did the right things at first, and she knew she screwed up, but took it too far and were too hard with her by the end. I truly think by the things youve said about her and what she has said about you, this relationship was not supposed to end, especially the way it did. I think the advice on here fueled a mindset that caused you to do things you normally wouldnt do, caused you to act and say things to a girl its obvious you really were in love with. Im not saying you go to her and beg to take her back, but I would try my hardest to give this another shot. Btw she was a really cute girl, and going to be a Dr.? Dont let her get away dude...relationships can be hard work...work on it.

 

[49au]

I think there is a lot of truth in your post. And she has opened up so much to me in the last few days that I see this situation 1000x more clearly than I did at first.

Pushing her away was necessary - but I pushed FAR too hard. Regardless, what is done is done. It has been talked to death, between she and I and also on this forum.

I have forgiven her for the mistakes she made, and we are on good terms. She knows that in the future I am open to DISCUSSING getting back together IF conditions are right, including me not being involved with someone else. I have made it clear that even though I did not WANT this to happen, I am moving on and will not lay down and die. I am already putting myself out there and talking to other girls.

There is nothing else that can be done. There is a difference between a woman you love, and a woman that you want to control. And I accept it.

 

[DMEDFISIK]

I will offer my thoughts based on personal experience and sensibilities. I will also caution that I am not jaded about women at all. I just have a better understanding of how they work relative to my late teens/early 20s.

First of all, it's very important to understand that women and attraction don't work on a logical basis. This can explain why she still wants her ex. I see some posts trying to rationalize this girl's behavior. However, many a man here will agree that if he loves a woman, it's extremely unlikely that stress, an ex, or some pseudo-rationalization will make him want to leave her--at least for me such is the case. Believe what you may by trying to excuse her behavior, but the consequences will be on you. A woman may fall out of love, lose attraction, etc. but to leave you? Let alone for somebody else????

Secondly, if this girl came back to you and you took her back, you'll have a problem trusting her. I dated a girl for two years, she started to get confused/fall out of love and wanted out. I left her alone, and within two months she came chasing and calling 20 times a day (just what the girl in question did to the OP), trying to hang out, etc. This was despite her crushing on some other guy. I took her back, but I ended up cheating on her (the only time I've ever cheated on girl) because she didn't do "enough" to show me she really wanted us to work. We broke up a year after. This caused pain on both sides. Dude, you'll have trust issues with her unless she makes patent effort to show you she wants to be with you and only you. But usually what happens is that the woman relies on your good graces and believes you love her no matter what, and will always be there no matter what she does. A woman can take a man back despite his failings, but a man should not do this for a woman. I will not go into the reasons for this double standard, but other posters can expand on this if they may.

Based on what has happened to me and the tales of other men, I have come to the conclusion that if a girl I'm dating comes up with some BS excuse for space or some other contrived reason for leaving me, then that relationship is over. No rationalizations or discussions.

It's *possible* things will be great if you take her back. But if you do, see to it that you protect yourself greatly. I also believe in second chances, the question is knowing what people deserve them. Based on what you've said about her, I am not so sure she's deserving of a second chance is this case.

I didn't proofread, so excuse any typos.

 

[cordoncordon]

This thread has made me join up. Personally? I think you have been given A TON of bad advice on this thread, especially by cornholecornhole. This girl obviously loves you very much. Yes, she was confused about things, who doesnt get confused at times in their lives? I will guarantee you that EVERY single long term relationship out there goes through tough times and confusion. Your relationship was only 8 months old, of course there are times she will compare you to her ex, especially this early into it. People who are in much longer relationships still do that. Its human nature and natural. It doesnt mean they want to leave you and go back. The people on this site are so jaded about women and relationships that they wont even acknowledge that sometimes instead of a woman being a cold hearted ***** they are just confused and unsure, just like men...we are all human beings. It doesnt mean they are cold, calculating, and evil. Your ex sounds like she had a ton of stress in her life and a couple of issues with you that would have been deal breakers with anybody else, but with you she was still willing to overlook them. What does that tell you? You did the right things at first, and she knew she screwed up, but took it too far and were too hard with her by the end. I truly think by the things youve said about her and what she has said about you, this relationship was not supposed to end, especially the way it did. I think the advice on here fueled a mindset that caused you to do things you normally wouldnt do, caused you to act and say things to a girl its obvious you really were in love with. Im not saying you go to her and beg to take her back, but I would try my hardest to give this another shot. Btw she was a really cute girl, and going to be a Dr.? Dont let her get away dude...relationships can be hard work...work on it.

You are either a complete idiot, or a woman. Only a complete afc or a woman would use words in describing what she did like "human nature, confused, unsure". If you had ever bothered to read this complete thread, you would know I am in a very happy 2 year relationship, am FAR from jaded-in fact I have said most of the men on this site are, and many times I take the women's side of things because of the strong women bias on this site. But that being said, the OP had every right to do what he did. As soon as she opened this can of worms and put this drama into the relationship, he was well within his rights to just walk away. I even told him at first NOT to walk away if you had bothered to read. But after hearing about the extent that she went in talking to her ex? See ya.

I'm sure you are the kind of guy (or woman) and that would wait by the phone, waiting for your bf or gf to call, after telling him or her that they can have all the time they need to "explore their feelings" with the ex.

Douche.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

I will offer my thoughts based on personal experience and sensibilities. I will also caution that I am not jaded about women at all. I just have a better understanding of how they work relative to my late teens/early 20s.

First of all, it's very important to understand that women and attraction don't work on a logical basis. This can explain why she still wants her ex. I see some posts trying to rationalize this girl's behavior. However, many a man here will agree that if he loves a woman, it's extremely unlikely that stress, an ex, or some pseudo-rationalization will make him want to leave her--at least for me such is the case. Believe what you may by trying to excuse her behavior, but the consequences will be on you. A woman may fall out of love, lose attraction, etc. but to leave you? Let alone for somebody else????

Secondly, if this girl came back to you and you took her back, you'll have a problem trusting her. I dated a girl for two years, she started to get confused/fall out of love and wanted out. I left her alone, and within two months she came chasing and calling 20 times a day (just what the girl in question did to the OP), trying to hang out, etc. This was despite her crushing on some other guy. I took her back, but I ended up cheating on her (the only time I've ever cheated on girl) because she didn't do "enough" to show me she really wanted us to work. We broke up a year after. This caused pain on both sides. Dude, you'll have trust issues with her unless she makes patent effort to show you she wants to be with you and only you. But usually what happens is that the woman relies on your good graces and believes you love her no matter what, and will always be there no matter what she does. A woman can take a man back despite his failings, but a man should not do this for a woman. I will not go into the reasons for this double standard, but other posters can expand on this if they may.

Based on what has happened to me and the tales of other men, I have come to the conclusion that if a girl I'm dating comes up with some BS excuse for space or some other contrived reason for leaving me, then that relationship is over. No rationalizations or discussions.

It's *possible* things will be great if you take her back. But if you do, see to it that you protect yourself greatly. I also believe in second chances, the question is knowing what people deserve them. Based on what you've said about her, I am not so sure she's deserving of a second chance is this case.

I didn't proofread, so excuse any typos.

Excellent post... Excellent Post.

This is very true.

Cordon I do agree you pusher her away too much but at the same time if you do take her back this will be in the back of your mind. Even next year it will be. This factor will play a part in the deteriotation of the relationship if you do get back with her.

 

[JustinVerj]

You are either a complete idiot, or a woman. Only a complete afc or a woman would use words in describing what she did like "human nature, confused, unsure". If you had ever bothered to read this complete thread, you would know I am in a very happy 2 year relationship, am FAR from jaded-in fact I have said most of the men on this site are, and many times I take the women's side of things because of the strong women bias on this site. But that being said, the OP had every right to do what he did. As soon as she opened this can of worms and put this drama into the relationship, he was well within his rights to just walk away. I even told him at first NOT to walk away if you had bothered to read. But after hearing about the extent that she went in talking to her ex? See ya.

I'm sure you are the kind of guy (or woman) and that would wait by the phone, waiting for your bf or gf to call, after telling him or her that they can have all the time they need to "explore their feelings" with the ex.

Douche.

Takes one to know one I guess. And any guy who will post up a gf on the internet, let alone one who looks like Kim Jong II, is a pretty big one. :woo:

 

[cordoncordon]

Takes one to know one I guess. And any guy who will post up a gf on the internet, let alone one who looks like Kim Jong II, is a pretty big one. :woo:

Haha I knew it was you. Aka mynameisnobody, bluntmaster, and about 5 other alias's on this site that have all been banned.

OP if you at all listen to this guy you are doing yourself a complete disservice. He has been banned on this site like I said numerous times, and is a certifiable nutcase. He makes up new alias's just to go after one of my posts before he is banned again.

As I said...Douche.

 

[49au]

I'll let you two fight it out.



She wants to be FB friends and wants to have some contact. Yesterday she sent me a few messages... they were actually pretty funny, I can tell that she is paranoid about me hooking up with other chicks. About 5-6 texts in all, I responded to one with something brief and that didn't invite a response. A couple hours later she sent another message and I ignored it.

Now as I'm typing this she just texted me again (first time today). She said to let her know if I wanted help decorating the new business location I am opening. (She helped me decorate the first one)


She still seems really conflicted about this, I'm just in kind of a "whatever" mindset at this point. I will admit that there are conditions under which I would take her back, but they are very specific conditions and I don't think she can give me what I want.

 

[cordoncordon]

I will admit that there are conditions under which I would take her back,

Not a surprise based on what you have said the past few days

but they are very specific conditions and I don't think she can give me what I want.

So why waste your time even talking to her? This woman openly disrespected your relationship, and you, and even after you have left her, she is still conflicted? If this girl was 100% into you, she would be on your doorstep day and night begging to fix things, and she isn't. She still has doubts. Instead of wasting one more second even thinking about her, devote your time and energy to bettering yourself and being with someone who IS 100% devoted to you.

 

[49au]

At some point down the line if she a) knows whether she's going to be living here for residency b) grows up c) shows massive interest and pursues me, then I would consider being with her again if I wasn't involved with someone I like. Do I think these things will happen? Probably not. That's why I'm moving on. But IF they do then I want to keep my options open by behaving correctly right now.

She has continued to contact me every day since the breakup. So now I have a choice:


The last two times I was at her house (both post-breakup), she cried and begged me to take this little souvenier that she bought on one of our trips in Vegas, something to think about her by. Both times I refused to take it.

She had my sister's sandals and put them in a bag for me to take to her. The sandals were beat up and I told her to just throw them away. She kept insisting that I take the bag. She had slipped the souvenier in that bag when I wasn't looking.

At this point I am thinking of just mailing it back to her with a note that says something like, "Though I wish you the best and have no hard feelings, I'm moving on." I'm afraid that by keeping it I'm sending a message that I am still considering being with her.

Or I could just continue on my current course of being distant and usually just ignoring her contacts and never say anything about it, and let her clearly see on my FB that I'm fine and moving on..

Her messages yesterday make it obvious she's scared of me hooking up with someone else. In her messages today she wanted to get together to help me furnish my new location. When I told her that we could still be in contact but I was not going to initiate anything, I didn't expect her to contact me every day. I am also uncomfortable with her being on my Facebook, but I was criticized early on in this thread for removing her the first time (and she did get really upset about it).

 

[Tiguere]

Ok OP you starting to piss me off right now. What part of no contact don't you understand?

If you want this girl back YOU GET HER BY DOING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOUR EMOTIONS TELL YOU.

The key is being COUNTER-INTUITIVE.

Don't you know that this girl is using you right now. She is being selfish. A mature girl after losing attraction and intiating a breakup will cut contact for a significant amount of time until the wounds are healed. That's called respecting the other half feelings and wellbeing.

You are her training wheels until she meets someone new and then she will drop you cold and we here are going to be sick or hearing your jaded stories.
There is good thread for you I will find it in a second.