BPD=Last Refuge of Femininity

[Boilermaker]

One of my siblings is a professional psychiatrist with however many board certificates you can get ... He practices as a liaison/consultant psychiatrist at a hospital and regularly makes such diagnoses.

He told me, even the so-called "professional diagnosis" is very sketchy; and you could talk about BPD tendencies/behavior rather than stamping them with a diagnosis that doesn't wash away for a life time.

There are two camps here, which are both wrong in my opinion:

1) BPD's don't exist. Because I have never seen one.

I belong to the first club. That's why from time to time, I have to remind myself this is wrong.

2) BPD's do exist and I have seen a lot of them. In fact, one's sitting right behind me.

This viewpoint is also biased and wrong because of what I said above. Spotting and pinning DSM-V criteria for BPD women is even hard for the professional psychiatrist, let alone the average DJ with lots of "life experience"

plus it is true that many people are using BPD as an emotional BUFFER.

"I got burned, but she has BPD, Oh well..."

My personal approach is to talk less about stuff like BPD (just as we don't talk about diabetes here) and focus on the positives; and stuff we can change.

The old PUA/DJ maxim still holds true;

JUDGE BY ACTIONS NOT BY WORDS.

That simple adage must protect you from anything that you come across.

Cheers,

 

[Die Hard]

I haven't offered any advice on BPDs. I was telling the group how Borderline Personality Disorder is defined in the real world, since "BPD" has become such a catch-all phrase on SoSuave

In other words, you assume that people on here use the term BPD where they shouldn't and you assume that people on here use the term BPD without taking into account what health professionals or the DSM say about BPD.

Those are strong allegations towards the countless members on here who are very knowledgable about BPD. What makes it even worse, is the fact that your allegations are unfounded. When a member on here uses the term BPD, how the hell do you know if that member is or isn't aware of the DSM description? How the hell do you know if that member bases his statements on tons of knowledge that he accumulated through articles, personal experiences, school studies etc. or whether he is just using the term without having any knowledge about it at all?

Whether I am, or am not, a mental health professional is irrelevant. The information I quoted is from the DSM IV, which certainly was written by health professionals. You're attacking me personally, but cannot discredit what I was saying.

I sure can discredit what you were saying. You quoted the DSM IV because you wanted to make a point. Your point being: the people on this forum who hand out advice on BPD do not take into account what health professionals have to say about BPD.
That's a wild accusation and it's an UNFOUNDED accusation. Above all, it's a FOOLISH accusation. You make it seem as if there are only two possiblities, let me quote your nonsense again:

To actually be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, you have to meet at least five of the following nine criteria, as outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). This is the criteria that real psychiatrists have to use to make the diagnosis:

Insert DSM IV criteria for BPD

I have a feeling most guys here would rather take their diagnostic knowledge from PUAs than from actual health professionals, however. LOL.

So according to you, people on here can either choose to take their advice from the "PUA's" on SoSuave (which is pretty low of you to say, coz many members on here consider themselves to be DJ's or aspiring DJ's, aiming for much more than just PUA strategies), or take their advice from health professionals, as if those two groups are directly opposed to each other. In other words, you say the people on here who use the term BPD, have no real knowledge about it and are ignorant to the knowledge that mental health profesionals have accumulated about BPD.

Again, that's a pretty strong, unfounded and downright FOOLISH accusation. You're implying that members on SoSuave are unable to educate themselves on a subject before making statements about it, LOL!! Which is so idiotic that it's actually funny... But at the same time, it's downright INSULTING of you towards all those members who are in fact very knowledgable about BPD. Hence, you deserve to be told to shut the fvck up.

And you just continue your foolishness, even in this latest post of yours:

I was telling the group how Borderline Personality Disorder is defined in the real world, since "BPD" has become such a catch-all phrase on SoSuave.

How it is defined in "the real world"?? As if all of us here are basing our knowledge and advice on our imagination, just babbling nonsense?
Fvck that sh!t, man. Your statements are incredibly foolish...



Oh, I'm sorry for pointing out the obvious here, 5string. Please don't be mad at me?

 

[Die Hard]

True that, samspade.

And if it was just an "incident", I would not be bothered about it. But this bulsh!t opinion has been thrown around by countless members on SoSuave, at countless occasions, literally for YEARS. And it has been refuted time and again, thread after thread, so one would assume that at least the veteran members (Zekko, member for 4 years) would know by now.

It's an important issue, though. As soon as knowledgable members recognize signs of BPD in a thread on here, they try to warn and help the OP. Especially when the OP has only known the girl for a short time, it's imperative that he gets up to speed on the disaster that's waiting to happen to him, so he can get away and be spared a lot of trouble.

Ignorant people who are still holding the same stupid opinion as Zekko, often undermine the help that knowledgable members try to give to the OP, by discrediting and ridiculing the opinion of those knowledgable members. Therefor, it's very important to fight this very idea that members on SoSuave don't know what they're talking about when they use the term BPD. This idea and the people who express it, should be countered and fought off at any occasion they appear, preferably with full force.

As it is, unaware victims of BPD's are hard enough to convince that they're about to walk into the jaws of hell. We don't need people making that task even harder by discrediting and ridiculing the members who are very knowledgable about BPD. The pain and misery that can be prevented when those knowledgable members are able to reach through to unaware victims, is very serious! Any idea, person or movement that tries to undermine the prevention of such serious pain and misery should be strongly opposed.

So of course I'm gonna respond strongly when I see people writing out stuff like:

I have a feeling most guys here would rather take their diagnostic knowledge from PUAs than from actual health professionals, however. LOL.

And I will definitely respond strongly the next time I see sh!t like this, and the time after that, and the time after that etc.

 

[Die Hard]

plus it is true that many people are using BPD as an emotional BUFFER.

"I got burned, but she has BPD, Oh well..."

I sometimes see people on here saying something like: "I think she might have been BPD anyway" referring to a girl who hurt him. But I rarely see anyone claiming with certainty that his girl was BPD and other forum members then proving him wrong about it.

Clearly, you have seen this happen a lot, though. Otherwise you wouldn't say that "many people are using BPD as an emotional BUFFER." So can you show me a thread on SoSuave where this is the case?

 

[Boilermaker]

Two examples for the two categories I was mentioning.
I think both are overreaching in their argument.

Category #1 : BPD's don't exist, because I haven't seen one.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=206392

Category #2: Things went south quickly while we were making out, so she shows BPD tendencies.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=206094

 

[Zunder]

"So when we see so many guys on this web site or real life being attracted to a bpd woman - that's why. Modern women want to be men, and they have forgotten how to be women. BPD girls are the last feminine women left"

No, what happens is this: We are bought up to believe that all women are sweet and virtuous. So, when we encounter a BPD for the first time we don't know what the fvck hit us, we panic, we chase, we make excuses for the BPD, we start blaming ourselves, we keep chasing, we--if we are not careful--can end up a wreck.

Then we either wake up before its too late, or we end up like every other beta schlub.

BPD women are feminine? No--they are just NUTS.

 

[Bible_Belt]

That is interesting, and it makes sense to me. That's why bpd girls make such good mistresses - they are stuck in the clinger phase. But marry one, and the hater phase begins.

Although BPD is mostly incurable, it is worthy of mention that some women do eventually learn to deal with it. That happens very rarely, because it requires admitting that they have the disorder and taking proactive steps to get better. The man they are with will have to understand the psych issues as well. A self 'healed' BPD will be a little older, 40's or 50's. It takes most of a lifetime to get the disorder under control, and that is in the rare instances where that happens. I would guess that more BPD women die of substance abuse or violence, or end up in prison for one of those two, than ever get control of their disorder.

 

[5string]

That is interesting, and it makes sense to me. That's why bpd girls make such good mistresses - they are stuck in the clinger phase. But marry one, and the hater phase begins.

Although BPD is mostly incurable, it is worthy of mention that some women do eventually learn to deal with it. That happens very rarely, because it requires admitting that they have the disorder and taking proactive steps to get better. The man they are with will have to understand the psych issues as well. A self 'healed' BPD will be a little older, 40's or 50's. It takes most of a lifetime to get the disorder under control, and that is in the rare instances where that happens. I would guess that more BPD women die of substance abuse or violence, or end up in prison for one of those two, than ever get control of their disorder.

This is exactly my case. Very rare indeed.

Would rep if I could.

 

[Die Hard]

There are two camps here, which are both wrong in my opinion:

1) BPD's don't exist. Because I have never seen one.

I belong to the first club. That's why from time to time, I have to remind myself this is wrong.

I totally agree. There's a camp on here that is simply ignoring and basically DENYING the experiences and knowledge that many members here have accumulated. This camp is wearing blinders when it comes to BPD and the members who are familiar with BPD. In effect, this camp has simply turned their skepticism into bias and prejudicial judgement --> Whenever a member makes mention of BPD, it is dismissed as nonsense right away. To them, it's just another member who can't accept the fact that a girl hurt his feelings, so he calls her BPD to protect his ego

2) BPD's do exist and I have seen a lot of them. In fact, one's sitting right behind me.

This viewpoint is also biased and wrong because of what I said above. Spotting and pinning DSM-V criteria for BPD women is even hard for the professional psychiatrist, let alone the average DJ with lots of "life experience"

plus it is true that many people are using BPD as an emotional BUFFER.

"I got burned, but she has BPD, Oh well..."

This second camp doesn't exist. It is just a fabrication from the minds of people in the first camp. There are quite a lot members on here who have encountered a BDP at least once in their life and there are some members (like myself) who have encountered BPD's many times in their lifes. Some of us simply have a predisposition to get involved with BPD's, caused by pathological relationships with our parents when we were kids etc.

As for members who use BPD as an emotional buffer because they can't handle the fact that they got burned by a girl... I rarely if never see this happen on this board. Members sometimes state that they SUSPECT their girl of bieng a BPD, but whenever other knowledgable members tell the guy that he's wrong, I rarely see the guy irrationally persisting in his conviction that she's BPD, just because he needs a way to deal with the fact that he got burned...

In my last post, I asked you to show me an example of a member who DOES display such irrational persistence in his idea about his girl being BPD, using it as an emotional buffer to reconcile the fact that he got burned.
The example you came up with is very telling and just proves that I am right about the "first camp" which has developed a biased opinion and straight out prejudice when it comes to members who mention BPD...

So as an example, you referred to a thread by iamnobody and claim that his story is a case of:

Things went south quickly while we were making out, so she shows BPD tendencies.

Suggesting that iamnobody simply chose to label her as BPD because he needed a way to reconcile the fact that the girl played him...

Funny enough, iamnobody said the following in his OP:

Not sure if she’s a BPD, the rage never showed up. There are certian traits, neediness, instant attachement, mood swings, etc, but not extreme though. Still, definitelly lots of baggage.

That hardly sounds like someone who is desperately trying to convince himself that the girl was BPD in an attempt to reconcile the fact that she played him....

But still, you came to the conclusion that this is a clear example of someone doing just that! Which just shows that you (and others from the "first camp") see what you WANT to see: a guy who thinks his girl is BPD MUST be a guy using the BPD label as an emotional buffer.


If you ask me, the guys who speak of BPD on this forum are not having misconceptions. The guys who point their fingers at any mention of BPD and automatically write it off as nonsense and emotional buffering, however...THOSE are the guys having misconceptions!

 

[Boilermaker]

Simply mentioning the label BPD is rationalization like it or not. Nobody here is a professional, so you can't suspect such nonsense.

You are not suspecting your gall bladder needs to be operated in the next few years, right? You wouldn't suspect such a thing, because you are not qualified to do so. So stop diagnosing people, and go about your own business. Going from your EX'es behavior to suspecting BPD is a long shot, always.

Your reaction is proof enough that the second camp exists and you belong in it.

...some of us simply have a predisposition to get involved with BPD's, caused by pathological relationships with our parents when we were kids etc.

"pathological relationships" with parents when you were kids, etc ...

Hmmm very interesting reason to justify why you should encounter more BPD's ...

Just for the record, this is not a misconception but a clearly established scientific fact, I guess?

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

I was thinking about this earlier while getting ready to go out. When the BPD girl and I were together, at first she'd laugh at my jokes, go along with things I wanted to do....but eventually, as time went on, she flipped it all around. Whenever I'd say something funny, it seemed like she wouldn't even smile. By the end, I couldn't even be myself around her, it was like I was always walking on egg shells. Waiting for her to lead the way. (shoot self now)

Just thought I'd add that.

 

[Die Hard]

Simply mentioning the label BPD is rationalization like it or not. Nobody here is a professional, so you can't suspect such nonsense.

You are not suspecting your gall bladder needs to be operated in the next few years, right? You wouldn't suspect such a thing, because you are not qualified to do so. So stop diagnosing people, and go about your own business. Going from your EX'es behavior to suspecting BPD is a long shot, always.

I see... So if you mix two chemicals in a bottle and the mix blows up, then you repeat the experiment 500 times and it blows up everytime, you're still not able to draw the conclusion that the combination of those chemicals is explosive. Because.... you're not a professional chemist.

Wow, I didn't expect such ignorance from you, Boiler. Actually, I know you're not stupid enough to make the assumption that non-professionals aren't able to draw sound conclusions of their own, it's just your bias and prejudiced judgment speaking here. So good luck with that, I have no ambition to point out the obvious to people who don't WANT to see the obvious anyway. I might as well go to a KKK meeting and try to convince them that white and black people are equal...

You idiots will always be present on this board, but your foolish statements have been invalidated in the past and will be invalidated in the future.
I'll leave it at that and withdraw from this discussion with you, you can have the last word if you like...

 

[Boilermaker]

Wow ... So now; you are not only a practicing psychiatrist, but also a researcher/scientist who makes methodical experiments about people's behavior

who logs them, analyzes them and draws conclusions from them, all within rules of the scientific method while not allowing your stupid irrationality get in the

way? Ok.

Your chemistry analogy rocked my world man, but then I lost my interest when you couldn't control your rage and called me a fool and an idiot ..

You can have all the last words in your discussions, friend, take care.

 

[ludis]

while not allowing your stupid irrationality get in the way?

I lost my interest when you couldn't control your rage and called me a fool and an idiot

Should be fairly self-explanatory.

 

[The_411]

Simply mentioning the label BPD is rationalization like it or not. Nobody here is a professional, so you can't suspect such nonsense.?

Are you serious? You can't suspect BPD because you're not a licensed psychologist psychiatrist?

Yes, the BPD label is used here incorrectly and correctly to describe a certain set of characteristics that woman has so that others may acknowledge and identify to what is being said.

Even if people are rationalizing what is it to you? It's up to each person to recognize that there were problems with that the relationship and even if a girl was a cluster B the guy is still at fault for tolerating that behavior and sticking around for it. If they don't recognize their own fault then guess what chances are they'll either get hoovered back in or end up with another Cluster B person.

If walks like a duck and talks like a duck it's probably a horse, amirite?

 

[Paintballguy]

You don't have to have a MD to figure out you have a cold. Why is it any different in determine a chick is most likely BPD if she has all of the same behaviors?

 

[Boilermaker]

Are you serious? You can't suspect BPD because you're not a licensed psychologist psychiatrist?

Yes, I am serious. You can't suspect it. Have you ever suspected a guy having a brain tumor? Or have you ever suspected a friend being schizophrenic? What would you tell your best friend if he came to you and said he suspects his mother is hypomanic or delusional or he suspects she has Tourette syndrome or maybe she's catatonic?

Does it ring any bell? You don't sound too competent now do you?

Even if people are rationalizing what is it to you? It's up to each person to recognize that there were problems with that the relationship and even if a

Nothing. People have been irrational from time immemorial. I don't care about it at all, as soon as you admit that you are rationalizing and fooling yourself to feel better.

It's a buffer ( c.f, Rollo Tommasi) and that's all it is.

 

[Boilermaker]

You don't have to have a MD to figure out you have a cold. Why is it any different in determine a chick is most likely BPD if she has all of the same behaviors?

Well, if that cold turns into pneumonia, what would be the first thing you'd do?

Figuring out a cold, and figuring out a complex behavioral disorder are the same thing?

Plus, you are never really figuring out shít , you are just guessing.

 

[disgustipated]

Point being that a non qualified person.is.more likely to make.a wrong diagnosis than a more experienced, qualified person. Read up on the buffer thing by Rollo, it could be another way of looking at it.

I usually don't click on anything involving the phrase BDP. I know it exists, I do believe its rarer than what this forum claims. Seems every normal brattyr spoiled drama.queen out there must be BDP. I don't want to be tempted to be one of those guy who uses a crutch of if them, not me. Now in.some cases it IS them, but even then I'm trying to.self analyze and grow to see what I.could've done.better or what I've learned from being around this woman. Just labeling someone BDP seems very ego sheltering unless its warranted AND accompanied by a healthy self critique.

 

[disgustipated]

Fair point. I hope I didn't present myself as one of those people.