Bootcamp started May1st, Week #5

[nonchalant]

I suck @ this

Nonchalant.. others.. what openers are you using in pubs? If I use a hi, or how's it going? often she'll give a nod, and that's all. Seems you need to be more than just friendly in a bar. Need something stimulating, fun. In most other situations.. coffee shop, daytime, whatever, she'll give more with just a hi, and basic convo. I went to Mystery's site.. they use a lot of opinion openers. That seems hard to do. Any luck?

Yeah I had a bad night out at the bars last night, a few approaches but no luck at all. By the end of the night I was down on myself and feeling miserable. Absolutely not in the right state to approach, but I forced myself anyway. Went badly. I'll write about them later, still kind of collecting my thoughts.

Last night I realized the same thing - how the bar game is a whole other animal than the day game. You have to be much more 'on', a lot more upbeat and agressive. *your energy has to be higher than their energy* - or else they won't talk to you because you will just bring them *down*. There are a ton of people there, it's loud, everyone's been drinking. There are a lot of other dudes there also, and you will have to be social with them too. It is just a lot more intimidating then when I stop a girl on the street at 4 in the afternoon with noone else around and ask her for directions.

The payoff, though, is that there are a lot more HB's out too - and they are dressed to kill, and are generally in the mindframe to f*ck. It is a gold mine if you are ready to face it. I went into it thinking that I would do a canned 'routine' - namely, the 'cold girlfriend' routine from Mystery's site. It went really well actually. A lot of those canned routines from the pua materials seem like they'd come off really artificial, you just have to deliver them the right way, which takes practice. You have to be comfortable in a bar setting and with interacting with strange people. I had a hard time with this last night

i was planning to use this opener:
'Hey I need your opinion - my buddy just texted me (shows her text message 'she's still not answering') - he told his gf last night that he loved her, now she's won't speak to him. He's called her 20 times already but she won't answer her phone - what is going on? etc.'
It was well received, on the one occasion I actually got to use it, I think it's one of the best openers out there actually. Women love talking about relationships, and this is an instant hook.

I went out with a pua who was using a lot of canned opinion openers and routines - the 'cube', the 'sleep position' one, the 'core values' one. About half the times the girls were b*tches, they refused to take the tests - one even called him 'creepy' to his face. I don't know how he did it, he didn't back down and persisted while frankly, getting shut down like that and being called 'creepy' would have took me out for the night. It's just balls, practicing your routine, and persistence.

I can do a fuller post, but my quick weekend approach.. opened a number of sets, but convo, etc ended early. Example.. gal behind bar was sort of bored, kept staring at me.. I opened with "you look bored".. she smiled.. but didn't have anywhere to go with it. Three gals were standing around, slurring speech a bit.. opened with.. "what's with the slurred speech?".. they just closed up to me and went into their own world. Had a few other opens, nothing great. Had one number close.

By Walden's counting method, etc.. I got my ten a while ago..

But, need to get in the habit of going for number closes. I only had one time this week that I asked for the #. Got it. If I'm to fix my situation, I simply need to get more #'s.

Nice work, though. I would have been ecstatic with a # close last night - the places we went last night were packed with all 8's+.

Another thing I realized last night - after the approach, even if it goes well, then what? you need a follow up, you need several follow ups actually. It's better if these things come in the course of natural conversation - but some canned follow ups help. I lost out on one approach that was going well last night because I had no follow up and the situation got uncomfortable. I guess this is called 'stacking'.

So I used to think that those canned routines were not for me - that I don't do 'cold reading' or 'opinion openers' - that they were too contrived and gimmicky, like card reading - but they serve a purpose. Unless you instantly click with a girl and have a ton of sh*t to say with her for some reason you better have the first fifteen minutes of conversation ready to go in your head, you don't have to have them memorized - but you should have various bits of conversation ready to go, preferably well rehearsed so they seem natural sounding.

I'll post more later on the approaches from last night after I've had time to think about them. There was a lot to learn, I have a lot of work to do - these stupid 'joke' approaches I've been doing - 'hey whats up, you having a good time, what are you drinking - can I have your number?', they seem comical but they are not going to work in the long run, especially at the bars. And the only solution is to keep going out to bars and practicing. I have to get the bar game down. The day game is ok, but the bar game is really where it's at.

 

[nonchalant]

my field report from last night is here

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?p=949839#post949839

 

[nonchalant]

roll call! i believe we are all still in?!

i didn't sarge yesterday, spend the day with my folks for father's day.

how you guys doin?

 

[The Phoenix]

Hi,

I see you guys have a:

DJ Log | Approach Journal links

How do you guys implemented that? I want to add that into my post for me and the guys in my boot camp Clan to maintain a cohesive collection of experiences.

Also, its neat you guys are posting regularly, we are just starting but we monitor your progress to prepare when we get there.

Cheers,

 

[nonchalant]

bump.

 

[OceanWindRider]

How's the rejection gathering going?
Here's an interesting bit. I was in the coffee shop the other day. And there was this guy walking around the street, entering cafes and sellnig roses so that an AFC can buy a flower for his lady hoping to get laid
Anyway, obviously a lot of people said: NO, thank you.
I was curious how does this guy deal with it.
He gets rejected left and right. Moreover, usually, people feel really uncomfortable, especially if they're in somewhat unsure relationship and the guys don't know if they should/shouldn't buy a rose.
And a girl does not know if the guy is just cheap or does not like her
So basically emotionally charged rejection..

So I talked to this guy to get his prospective. And here's what he told me:
-- Every rejection is a one more rejection towards somebody who will make a purchase. So if he has to have 50 people saying no and 1 person saying yes.... Every rejection is 1 more on the way TO THE GOAL, not away from the goal. 1st rejection means he only has 49 more to go, 2nd - means he only have 48 left to go, etc. And rejections are actually good for him - cause it brings him CLOSER to the goal.
I am sure it's not a new concept.
But I think it is extremely powerful way to look at things.

So I suggest we stick to the rejection is good stage for a little while more
Anyway, if you guys are still up to it, I am thinking of having a task from either mASF bootcamp or Shark's direct method exercises.

 

[nonchalant]

How's the rejection gathering going?

I've been doing a very good job at getting rejected, unfortunately.

Here's an interesting bit. I was in the coffee shop the other day. And there was this guy walking around the street, entering cafes and sellnig roses so that an AFC can buy a flower for his lady hoping to get laid
Anyway, obviously a lot of people said: NO, thank you.
I was curious how does this guy deal with it.
He gets rejected left and right. Moreover, usually, people feel really uncomfortable, especially if they're in somewhat unsure relationship and the guys don't know if they should/shouldn't buy a rose.
And a girl does not know if the guy is just cheap or does not like her
So basically emotionally charged rejection..

So I talked to this guy to get his prospective. And here's what he told me:
-- Every rejection is a one more rejection towards somebody who will make a purchase. So if he has to have 50 people saying no and 1 person saying yes.... Every rejection is 1 more on the way TO THE GOAL, not away from the goal. 1st rejection means he only has 49 more to go, 2nd - means he only have 48 left to go, etc. And rejections are actually good for him - cause it brings him CLOSER to the goal.
I am sure it's not a new concept.
But I think it is extremely powerful way to look at things.

This is how I've been motivating myself with
'just another brick in my palace' and '250 is the magic number'
basically looking at every approach/rejection as a learning experience.

I think we're all at the same stage, basically where we are still trying to get over rejection. Once we're completely over it - then we can concentrate on body language, openers, negs, C+F, technique.

I still don't completely feel like I've overcome fear of rejection, I have a lot less approach anxiety than I did at the beginning of the BC, though.

A new task would be good, I'm all for it.

So I suggest we stick to the rejection is good stage for a little while more
Anyway, if you guys are still up to it, I am thinking of having a task from either mASF bootcamp or Shark's direct method exercises.

 

[Thomas94305]

roll call! i believe we are all still in?!

Yeah, I'm in. My life's going forward, not backwards...

Still working on material for pubs. Agree with what's been said about needing something more stimulating than "hi, how's it going?" That will do fine at a coffee shop, tho.

Concerning last week's approaches, triage on them.. I've already posted about approaching one gal at a pub last week, and opening with " you look bored". It worked OK as an opener, she smiled, it gets some emotion. But, didn't have anything to follow with. Approached a 3 set, and opened with.. "you guys are slurring your speech". They just closed off. Noticed a gal had a tongue piercing. Walked up to her and asked about it.. things like what it was like to get it pierced, how many piercings do you have, etc. Chatted a little. Nothing that interesting. Not too into piercings. Her male friend returned. I said I was just asking about her piercings, and ejected. Would have been better to just relax, introduce myself to him too. Walked into a pub, saw an HB 9 there, just getting into the music. Paused, a second, remembered the 3 second rule, and approached. "Hey... how's it going? Why's everyone singing along to this song? Is this just what they do here?", she said she didn't know.. she's not familiar with the place. I extended my hand.. "I'm Thomas94305", she shook hands, replied "I'm HB9". I think I had one or two more sentences for her, but did not get enough of a thread going. Had premature ejectulation.

The number close.. saw her outside a pub, she eyed me. When I was at another pub, saw her there. Approached, said I noticed her at the first place. I didn't go in, so I asked her how it was. Told her she had a lot of energy.. she was perky, etc. Asked her to dance, told her friends I wanted to borrow her for a few minutes. We danced some. We went to the bar upstairs and talked some. Seemed I had to put most of the energy into this one. I'd ask about what she does for fun.. she parties, hang out.. She didn't give much to follow up on like.. into mountain climbing, or does brain surgery in her garage.. she didn't ask about my hobbies. I look for a gal that has interests, hobbies, develops her mind and interests. I liked her shoes, told her about it. I brought up fashion, asked her what fashion she likes on a guy.. jeans, crisp shirt and slacks..etc. She didn't say much. Anyhow, enough of that for me, got the number, left the pub.

You can see where my stuff is. Getting OK at approaching whomever. Not over approach anxiety, but going the right direction. But have weak material to say.

Been looking at the canned routines. It strikes me that some of this stuff feels odd to use.. Nonchalant mentioned his wing got called "creepy". I think the big differentiator there is SOCIAL RELEVANCE. You go up to a stranger, ask about core values or run the cube, it's a little out of place. You go up to a new HB with Nonchalant's text message on the cell, that's relevant since it's about what's going on right now, it's about connecting with someone which is part of why people go to bars. That's socially relevant, a fair topic. You can comment on people in the bar. You can bring up stuff about the music, fun things in the area, how she's dressed. I might even ask "does that guy look gay?" HB says.. yadda yadda.. "Thanks.. I don't know about being gay, that's why I asked you.. " A mini cold read like.. you seem energetic/into your own thoughts/relaxed/tense/hyper seems good.. or you're cute, like a little sister/you're trouble/you're sooo innocent is fine.

Help me out.. I don't like a lot of the games/opinion openers because they seem out of place. Am I wrong on that.. did you get any of that to work? What material you got is socially relevant/congruent with the situation?

Adieu

 

[evil]

ocean,
masf & shark sounds good.
will give us a new perspective.

finally got the 10/10 rejections
i estimated that about 1 out of 3 gave me their number when i asked.
(Although many stalled)
& around 1 out of 3 approaches ended up in convos where it felt right to ask for her number.
so in total i would have approached around 90 women!!

NEXt:
I want to make the approaches seem more genuine, or at least build more comfort, so that the numbers don't stall.
as mystery says, solid game, gives solid numbers.

 

[Thomas94305]

Shezz started a thread.. "Guide to Sarging: Nightclubs"

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=103124/

 

[nonchalant]

Shezz started a thread.. "Guide to Sarging: Nightclubs"

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=103124/

nice. what's the plan for next week guys? let's get this going again.

 

[OceanWindRider]

Ok, here's the next task and it's rather small..
I will give you the theory and the following task later.

You have to get to a place that reminds you very strong of your one-iti or ex and initiate a pickup there. Or several if it's a busy place.

I was just passing by a house I used to live in with my ex. And got a whole lot of sad and depressing feelings. So I figured - a perfect opportunity.
I went to the local drugstore and tried a direct approach on the first cute girl I saw. It was not successful, but I did not care.

I felt soo much better after doing this - it's UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

So everyone should do this!

 

[nonchalant]

my last coffee shop approach in my journal took place at a cafe that we used to go to.

 

[OceanWindRider]

nonchalant, do it again.
Now, consciously, go to some place that make you feel something towards your one-ity. If ex does not instir any feelings - choose a different person.

 

[nonchalant]

i took a oneitis out to chipotle for burritos. i approached a 2 set at chipotle today.
details in my approach journal if you want the gory details.

what's the deal for this week dudes?

 

[Thomas94305]

Guys.. I want to stick with you and do this exercise. But, am in a different town this summer, and away from my one-itus spots. Social life here works different than home, hard to find a reasonable approximation to the one-itus-villes.

What I am doing is trying to get my pub game going. I'm not a fan of pubs. But, if you can reliably get interest and numbers there, it will certainly tighten things most everywhere else. I'm still floundering there. I'm trying to have conversations with anyone, borrowing the "drunk friendly guy" mentality, but not literally. Am making some progress there, but it feels like weeks 2, 3 of the boot camp again. A hello there is often greeted with a glance and a turn away. Haven't done much with the opinion openers, they seem odd.

It's odd. People go there saying they want to socialize. But, they don't socialize. They go there looking to be entertained, but stick with their own groups. Hmmm... this would be an interesting, and socially relevant convo thread at a bar, if I can present it in a lighthearted way.

Anyhow, I'm most interested in exercises that make me better at approaching and having convos in these places. I'm "ok" at coffee shops, or casual gatherings. I don't do the harder things well, street approaches, getting very far in pubs, chatting up in stores other than checkout lines. Doing well in these harder environments will do a lot to tighten things for me anytime. Currently, I get sporadic convo's going in these places. I'm not getting number closes reliably. I still have a lot of approach anxiety. Most of the people in the pubs are in groups, and have not done well with opening groups.

I want to stay with you guys. But, you can see where I feel I need to go.

 

[nonchalant]

Guys.. I want to stick with you and do this exercise. But, am in a different town this summer, and away from my one-itus spots. Social life here works different than home, hard to find a reasonable approximation to the one-itus-villes.

What I am doing is trying to get my pub game going. I'm not a fan of pubs. But, if you can reliably get interest and numbers there, it will certainly tighten things most everywhere else. I'm still floundering there. I'm trying to have conversations with anyone, borrowing the "drunk friendly guy" mentality, but not literally. Am making some progress there, but it feels like weeks 2, 3 of the boot camp again. A hello there is often greeted with a glance and a turn away. Haven't done much with the opinion openers, they seem odd.

It's odd. People go there saying they want to socialize. But, they don't socialize. They go there looking to be entertained, but stick with their own groups. Hmmm... this would be an interesting, and socially relevant convo thread at a bar, if I can present it in a lighthearted way.

Anyhow, I'm most interested in exercises that make me better at approaching and having convos in these places. I'm "ok" at coffee shops, or casual gatherings. I don't do the harder things well, street approaches, getting very far in pubs, chatting up in stores other than checkout lines. Doing well in these harder environments will do a lot to tighten things for me anytime. Currently, I get sporadic convo's going in these places. I'm not getting number closes reliably. I still have a lot of approach anxiety. Most of the people in the pubs are in groups, and have not done well with opening groups.

I want to stay with you guys. But, you can see where I feel I need to go.

Thomas94305

I'm in the same boat - I'm doing ok at day game, my club game is horrible. I might as well be in a new town because this is the first time I've gone to clubs on a regular basis - none of my afc friends are into the bar scene. If you are in a new town I don't think you should have to do this exercise, just keep approaching. I'm also sending you a pm with some tips.

 

[nonchalant]

as for opinion openers seeming 'odd' - when i have had the opportunity to use them, they have worked very well. but you have to be relaxed enough to deliver them properly.

if you want an excellent example of a successful approach with # close - search here or on mASF for Papa's Seduction of Paris Hilton Pt. 1 - it is all canned routines with opinion openers but it is delivered perfectly.

 

[OceanWindRider]

Ok, I am off to Montreal for a week. Maybe will make it to the Cliff's list seminar if lucky
Meanwhile....
For our rejection - the next task would be to use Compliment opener.
as in:
- you have a lovely scarf. It suits you very well
- Thank you
- hi, I am Denis
- ....
Proceed with the game and get a rejection on a #close.


Meanwhile.... if somebody wants to find mASF bootcamp in their archive (i think it's like 16 weeks) and go through some of them to figure out what we can apply here - that'd be awesome

 

[nonchalant]

guys -

check out the boot camp at style life challenge at style's new website:

http://www.stylelife.com/

what do you think?