Bootcamp started May1st, Week #5

[Thomas94305]

Oh alright Nonchalant.. we're logged in simultaneously....

From the week 4 exercises, on page 46 of my version of the DJ boot camp:

"For this week's lesson, your mission is to go out, approach girls, and close for their phone number. However, instead of our focus being getting a certain number of phone numbers, our goal is to actually get a certain number of rejections. The reason is pretty simple... at this point, we are working on killing off our fear in asking a girl for her number.

So, for this week, we are to go out, approach girls, and go for a phone number close. We are to do this until we have been rejected a total of ten times. Believe me, the first one or two rejections might be a bit tough, but after that, it'll get easier and easier... not to mention more and more fun."

Given that, my goal is a little modest. I should be going for number closes until I get 10 rejections in a week. I'll rethink things a bit...

I'd say approach whenever.. up to you if you wanna go for the number close or not. To satisfy the boot camp exercise, just need 10 number close rejections out of the 10+ (20, 30, ... 1000) approaches you do. NONE of us are there so far. I do think the boot camp's goal is good. I dunno if I can get there this week. Certainly a subgoal is to at least go for the number close 10 times. NONE of us are there, either.

Personally, I'm sticking this out until I routinely go for number closes. I hope to get comraderie from you guys on something similar.. looks like the remaining platoon is.. OceanWindRider, Evil, Nonchalant, and myself.

But, we haven't decided as a group on what we want.

 

[nonchalant]

this week is really hard. i approached 3 times last night but couldn't count any towards this week's assignment.

a lot of the times you will not be able to get to the point where you can ask for a number so you can't count it - thus to get a total of 10 number close rejections you will actually have to approach way more than 10 times, and experience a lot more than just 10 rejections.

 

[Thomas94305]

I sooooo agree Nonchalant.. so do all the dropouts..

It's getting slightly easier for me now that I've gone for some number closes and gotten rejected some. I'm still here, still breathing, that's the point.

 

[nonchalant]

i am going to fackin do this.

if i have to solo sarge every night at a bar this week i will do this bullsheyit.

i'm going out tonight - i'm gonna turn into an alcoholic at this rate ;P

 

[Thomas94305]

I'm thinking of trying a Sierra Club singles meeting here.. my liver is my friend.. Wonder if one can work drinking/not drinking in a bar as good connvo material.. is somewhat provoking.. wanna be the alpha should I choose to not drink that much.

 

[nonchalant]

I'm thinking of trying a Sierra Club singles meeting here.. my liver is my friend.. Wonder if one can work drinking/not drinking in a bar as good connvo material.. is somewhat provoking.. wanna be the alpha should I choose to not drink that much.

the concert last night was pretty cool because you don't really have to drink at those. you can just be holding a bottled water or something.

i'm way more ballsy with a few drinks in me though.

i'm just going to go back to my retarded mode of friday night where i just act the fool and just ask for the number regardless if there is rapport or attraction happening. if i wait til i feel like there is attraction/rapport, then often times they will eject before i can ask. and i want to get this sheeit done with.


also - do you guys go to the gym?
i go about 4 times a week. i was thinking that i should be sarging at the gym, but .....
i'm afraid of totally making an ass out of myself, then i will have to see this person every time i go to the gym if they're also a regular. if i get blown out at a club at least i never have to see that person anymore. same with work situations.

 

[Thomas94305]

I go to the gym...

You've hit the fear issue exactly.. if you go regularly, and goof up, then there's the fear of seeing this person again. Some comments on that...

At gyms, or clubs/groups where you regularly see the same people, you can still practice hi's, convo's. All that is just basic friendly stuff. Eventually, I'd want to get to the point where asking for phone numbers is a very normal thing. And, if she has a problem with it, as long as I've acted respectful, there's nothing I need to do about her problem. Given that point of view, if I were to see her again, I'd just feel totally natural to go about my business there, and not even feel awkward since there's nothing for me to address. HOWEVER, right now, we're not there. We're getting over our awkwardness.

Suggest practicing the hi's and convo's there, to start desensitizing you to socializing there. If you go to the gym at different times, different people show. You can use that by going at a different time yourself to try number closes. If it's not so good, you can just return to your normal gym schedule, and not have to worry that much about seeing the person regularly. In any event, no one's going to arrest us for asking for phone numbers.

When I did my gym at school, enough people showed up, and there was enough randomness, that I did ask for contact info a couple of times. One gave email, but did not return my emails. Other did not give contacxt info. Never saw them again. I'm getting a gym membership for the summer. I'll try convo's.

I've found that at gyms, people are somewhat on a mission, to get their workout done. They may not be that sociable. So.. attribute any unenthusiastic responses to their mood, not to anything about yourself. When I did go for a number close, it was because both of us were on the stationary bikes.. both in the same spot for 20-30 minutes, doing something repetitive.

In any event, you're there anyhow. This is a regular part of your life. I'd certainly try it out. It's healthier than the alcoholism you are contemplating...

 

[nonchalant]

Walden's boot camp journal is extremely inspiring. Even he seems to have stretched the rejection week out.

Although he seems to be at somewhat of an advantage than probably the average AFC guy trying this out. He is a big muscle guy who goes to the gym all the time, he is a standup comedian who performs in front of large groups of people, and he goes to college so he's surrounded all the time by HB's.

Still a great read.

 

[TheFlyingMan]

Argh shvt count me back in. I don't wanna be no quitter.

 

[nonchalant]

i fell asleep last night reading walden's journal, when i meant to go out. was really tired from all the going out and late nights of the past few days.

walden gave himself more than two weeks to finish week 4. we are on our like - what? - 3rd week of week 4? - granted i think we took a week off because everyone thought it was over. it is depressing because he is getting laid by week 4, and i am still choking when i see an HB i should approach.

my approaches last weekend were jokes. i wasn't serious about any of them and got lucky once. if i'm going to actually get over this rejection thing i'm going to have to ask for the number like i mean it, and not like it's some kind of drunken joke, then detaching early, which is my crutch. if i wasn't really serious then it doesn't mean anything that i got blown out. it's just a joke. he makes a really good post where he compares it to aikido - in the beginning you try really hard not to get hit, then you want to get tough so you try to strengthen yourself to take really hard hits, then later on it is nothing to you.

i have to build rapport too. my rapport building sucks and that's why it does not feel natural to me to ask for a number because she still feels like a stranger. i have to get her talking about herself and then run with every possible thread she brings up. then C+F, negs, DHV. it's funny how i seem to forget all of the reading i've done when i'm out in the field.

i'm going out tonight to watch the game and i'm taking it back to basics today - 'hi's' to everyone i see, even people who seems uninterested, convo every HB, remember to build rapport then go for the close.

 

[Thomas94305]

Welcome back TheFlyingMan.. Care to update us on your progress?

 

[nonchalant]

7/10

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?p=946668#post946668

I'm not proud of this one, I'm just worried I'm not going to have enough by the end of the week. Another one of my ridiculous car hook ups.

I might go out tonight to a concert or a bar to watch the game. I'll try to make up for this weak sh*t.

 

[OceanWindRider]

so approach without *attempted* number close is permissible for this week?
as in, if you approach and the words 'can i get your number?' don't come out your mouth - it may be an approach, but it will not count towards the 10 'rejections' for this week's assignment?

because i've approached more than 10, but a lot of them i've gotten blown out before i could ask for the number - do they still count towards my 10?

I think the rejection is still a rejection. Sometimes you'er out of the game earlier.
There is no point going for the phone number if the girl clearly rejected you and for example walked away. That's a rejection and it counts towards the goal.
However if the conversation is still going but maybe not as strong or the girl is in a hurry and says I gotta go - then you have to do this extra push for the #close.
Just calibrate.

 

[nonchalant]

I think the rejection is still a rejection. Sometimes you'er out of the game earlier.
There is no point going for the phone number if the girl clearly rejected you and for example walked away. That's a rejection and it counts towards the goal.
However if the conversation is still going but maybe not as strong or the girl is in a hurry and says I gotta go - then you have to do this extra push for the #close.
Just calibrate.

if that's the case then i'm over the limit and i'm done for this week. way over the limit. if you guys for some reason decide that attempted phone number close is essential to this i have one more to add to my total.

but according to what Thomas94305 quoted

"For this week's lesson, your mission is to go out, approach girls, and close for their phone number. However, instead of our focus being getting a certain number of phone numbers, our goal is to actually get a certain number of rejections. The reason is pretty simple... at this point, we are working on killing off our fear in asking a girl for her number.

So, for this week, we are to go out, approach girls, and go for a phone number close. We are to do this until we have been rejected a total of ten times. Believe me, the first one or two rejections might be a bit tough, but after that, it'll get easier and easier... not to mention more and more fun."

if you read the djbc strictly, it seems like asking for a phone number is an essential part of this exercise.

it's up to you guys though, i'm glad to have it done with this exercise. although i think you *really* learn more when you ask for the number. that makes it clear in no uncertain terms that you are hitting on her, if you are talking to her and you lose the thread and she just walks off, you can call it a rejection but the level of embarassment you face is not nearly as much as if you asked for the number and get denied. if you have been asking for numbers, you *know* that there is a difference.

 

[Thomas94305]

Help me with pubs/bars

Guys.. I suck at opening in pubs. I went out last night for a couple of hours. Places had a decent crowd. Just couldn't open worth anything. Hi'd a few women, got a quick hi and turn away. Started some convo with a couple of guys to get me rolling, but did not go well. Seemed I was putting in the energy and they weren't responsive. Asked one guy how he's doing, had to repeat myself. Watched another guy order 10 shots of tequila, and so convo'd on that. But the one guy I convo'd didn't contribute, mostly one way convo. Another guy opened me, asked how I was doing. Talked a few lines about what are good places to go in the area. But, he excused himself to go off with his buddies. Even went into one place, game playing on TV, walked up to a guy watching it, asked "how's the game", he didn't reply, or even flinch.. jerk. Feels like week 2 of the bootcamp, but not as good a result I got then.

I'm not a bars/pub kind of person myself.. dunno if that vibe is coming through. My norm is to meet people at some combination of coffee shops, salsa at clubs that aren't too loud, and church. But, in the town I'm at for the summer.. bars are what they got, so that's what I'm working with. There's several medium sized pubs here, people will bounce from one to the next, it's just their social life.

What I'm seeing here, is people will go in their groups, and want to stick with their groups. Or, they'll be at the bar, and sort of into their drink and their thoughts, not wanting to get out of that. Perhaps I can use this for convo?

I don't have great openers. All I've got going is "hi", or "how's the week/night".. or "am new here, what's this place like", etc. At the coffee shops I knew on the other coast, I'd open with "what you reading?" or a compliment, or asked what they are working on, since many bring laptops, etc, or ask about some strange caffeine thing they're drinking. Any of that got people going.

Comment guys.. let me know what works for you. Pubs is what they got here, no dancing. There's dance places I've found about 35 miles away, but are sooo loud, you just cannot talk. The coffee shops here are just too dead.

 

[nonchalant]

Guys.. I suck at opening in pubs. I went out last night for a couple of hours. Places had a decent crowd. Just couldn't open worth anything. Hi'd a few women, got a quick hi and turn away. Started some convo with a couple of guys to get me rolling, but did not go well. Seemed I was putting in the energy and they weren't responsive. Asked one guy how he's doing, had to repeat myself. Watched another guy order 10 shots of tequila, and so convo'd on that. But the one guy I convo'd didn't contribute, mostly one way convo. Another guy opened me, asked how I was doing. Talked a few lines about what are good places to go in the area. But, he excused himself to go off with his buddies. Even went into one place, game playing on TV, walked up to a guy watching it, asked "how's the game", he didn't reply, or even flinch.. jerk. Feels like week 2 of the bootcamp, but not as good a result I got then.

Thomas94305 - were you sarging alone at the bars?
I had a hard time approaching alone at the bar I went to Fri, but an very easy time sarging alone at the club I went to Sun. Now that I've solo sarged a few times and I've done the rejection week - I feel like I can approach alone at bars more easily. It's just practice! It is ironic that the *more* crowded the place is, the easier I find it to approach. You just had bad luck. The guy I talked to on Fri was really friendly, don't give up on being friendly with dudes at bars. It will help calm you down and put you at ease, you may even meet some good wings. One piece of advice; what I did Fri was plant myself at the bar next to some guy who was also alone that seemed pretty cool. Convo was easy, just comment on the game on tv.

Google for 'bars to hang out alone' or something to that effect for your city. I did that in Chicago and found many results. I'm going to try them all, but honestly I already know the areas I like, I'm just going to walk around and try one that looks comfortable. Don't give up on sarging alone - I went to a pua group, they all prefer going out alone.

I'm not a bars/pub kind of person myself.. dunno if that vibe is coming through. My norm is to meet people at some combination of coffee shops, salsa at clubs that aren't too loud, and church. But, in the town I'm at for the summer.. bars are what they got, so that's what I'm working with. There's several medium sized pubs here, people will bounce from one to the next, it's just their social life.

What I'm seeing here, is people will go in their groups, and want to stick with their groups. Or, they'll be at the bar, and sort of into their drink and their thoughts, not wanting to get out of that. Perhaps I can use this for convo?

I do bars/clubs when I either have wings available or if I'm feeling up to it. I can tell you that if you do it a couple of times it becomes no big deal and a bit of an adventure. It's actually easier for me to approach alone because I don't have my afc friends to peer pressure me and hold me back.

During the day I am always on the lookout for approaches, I lose my nerve a lot of the time but I am at the point now when if I don't get at least one or two a day I feel bad about it. Last night I made myself walk around downtown where the girls are until I got at least one approach.

Once you do the first one or two for the day, it becomes easier and you relax.

I don't have great openers. All I've got going is "hi", or "how's the week/night".. or "am new here, what's this place like", etc. At the coffee shops I knew on the other coast, I'd open with "what you reading?" or a compliment, or asked what they are working on, since many bring laptops, etc, or ask about some strange caffeine thing they're drinking. Any of that got people going.

That is my problem exactly bro. One of the pua's I went out with recommended
Mystery's site - and it is a *gold mine*. Many many openers and routines on those forums, much more than here.

Also re: openers. I told the pua's I went out with that I don't have a set opener, that I just make up the most appropriate thing for each situation. That's not good they said - have about 2-3 openers that you *always* use, one for each type of situation. That way you get good at delivery, and you don't have to think of what you have to say next - you can concentrate on BODY LANGUAGE and EC and KINO. So pick one or two and use them repeatedly, get good at them, ditch them for others if you're not getting results.

Comment guys.. let me know what works for you. Pubs is what they got here, no dancing. There's dance places I've found about 35 miles away, but are sooo loud, you just cannot talk. The coffee shops here are just too dead.

These pua's I went out with last week went out 4-5 times a week at least. And they are always on the hunt.

The boot camp quota is doable unless you live in Antarctica. The key is to go out all the time, even if you don't feel like it - I find that it lifts my mood to do an approach.

What do you think of Ocean's comments? Are you still going for 10 attempted phone closes? I am, just to see if I can do it.

You guys - let's do this! Feel free to email me at any time this weekend. Let's all finish this week!

 

[Thomas94305]

Thanks for the reply, Nonchalant.. Will check out MM's website. Prefer to be spontaneous, have fun. But, canned openers are very useful as we're getting started and dealing with just being comfortable, or when we just get brain freeze.

Yep, sarged alone. New town, no good buddies yet. I've read too how the other people prefer to sarge alone. Personally, I ask what kind of lifestyle do I want, I prefer to have buddies around provided they don't hold me back.

Like you said, last night can be attributed to bad luck. I know a lot about statistics, and know one night is not statistically significant. I know about being human too.. one night is statistically significant from that point of view. Am committed to continuing tho. I'm a man, we deal with things and make life better.

Concerning Ocean's comments.. I read that, and did not comment at that time.. but.. In the remainder of the boot camp, we're dealing with dates. That means getting numbers. Personally, I want to follow the djbc pdf as it states. At the very least, I want to have asked for 10 numbers in a week.. or some reasonably limited time frame. I don't see us going on to having good dating lives without a solid ability to ask for phone numbers. Dealing with a woman walking off before we ask for a number is certainly something we need to deal with; I've had some of those, and haven't been counting them. But, we're not getting more dates unless we ask for more numbers.

 

[nonchalant]

so i was reading resilient's blog, it looks like when he did the rejection week for his boot camp he was counting even the rejections where he didn't get to ask for the phone number

http://resilientman.blogspot.com/2006/04/10-rejections.html

rereading Walden -
it also looks like Walden was counting approaches where he didn't get a chance to ask for the phone number because the set ended too early.

so now i'm inclined to agree with Ocean, even though i'm going to continue approaching...

 

[Thomas94305]

I suck @ this

Nonchalant.. others.. what openers are you using in pubs? If I use a hi, or how's it going? often she'll give a nod, and that's all. Seems you need to be more than just friendly in a bar. Need something stimulating, fun. In most other situations.. coffee shop, daytime, whatever, she'll give more with just a hi, and basic convo. I went to Mystery's site.. they use a lot of opinion openers. That seems hard to do. Any luck?

I can do a fuller post, but my quick weekend approach.. opened a number of sets, but convo, etc ended early. Example.. gal behind bar was sort of bored, kept staring at me.. I opened with "you look bored".. she smiled.. but didn't have anywhere to go with it. Three gals were standing around, slurring speech a bit.. opened with.. "what's with the slurred speech?".. they just closed up to me and went into their own world. Had a few other opens, nothing great. Had one number close.

By Walden's counting method, etc.. I got my ten a while ago..

But, need to get in the habit of going for number closes. I only had one time this week that I asked for the #. Got it. If I'm to fix my situation, I simply need to get more #'s.

 

[evil]

thomas,
for the pubs, you really need something way more interesting than just 'how are you". you must demonstrate high value.
goto any peer to peer (eg: limewire.com) & download for free Mystery's "Venusian arts manual"
it has all the canned openers & the full sequence necessary.