Beta providers

[Spaz]

I'm not saying women are bad or unworthy. I'm saying a whole goddamn lot of them are. And I don't want to deal with those anymore. Instead, I want to deal with the ones who are better.

A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.

Spaz. You just explained how it could be so detrimental to have one bad relationship or connection. Or how lowering ypur standard for one can be a detrimental to your dealing with ALL women.

 

[Spaz]

Spaz. You just explained how it could be so detrimental to have one bad relationship or connection. Or how lowering ypur standard for one can be a detrimental to your dealing with ALL women.

I would like to see men rising up after each fall better and better.

They can only do so with the right mindset.

OP here has so much potential to be great. I seriously believe so, it's clearly manifested in the way he writes his post.

Mindsets are important gents as it set a man up in how he does things.

 

[Die Hard]

A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.

I get what you're saying and I'm aware of how one can sabotage himself by being too pre-occupied with that thought. I don't want to get caught up in that, and that's EXACTLY WHY I have decided to not deal with the "bad" women anymore.

Dealing with bad women corrupts me and causes me to mess up when I'm dealing with good women, coz I will treat the good women based on my expriences with the bad women. I will behave to the good women in a manner that brought me success with the bad women, I will raise up defenses towards the good women coz those defenses were needed with the bad women etc. etc. Therefor I will not deal with the goddamn lot of women who are bad anymore.

It's as simple as that. I categorize women in good and bad and choose to only pursue the good ones. And I believe I am capable of judging in which category a woman falls without getting caught up in the mistake where ones mind is pre-occupied with the thought that "all/most women are bad" which will show through in his behavior.

To put it simply, there's a difference between:
1. Knowing that statistically there are a lot more bad women than good women out there.
2. Getting pre-occupied with that thought to the point where it becomes a confirmation bias.

 

[Spaz]

I get what you're saying and I'm aware of how one can sabotage himself by being too pre-occupied with that thought. I don't want to get caught up in that, and that's EXACTLY WHY I have decided to not deal with the "bad" women anymore.

Dealing with bad women corrupts me and causes me to mess up when I'm dealing with good women, coz I will treat the good women based on my expriences with the bad women. I will behave to the good women in a manner that brought me success with the bad women, I will raise up defenses towards the good women coz those defenses were needed with the bad women etc. etc. Therefor I will not deal with the goddamn lot of women who are bad anymore.

It's as simple as that. I categorize women in good and bad and choose to only pursue the good ones. And I believe I am capable of judging in which category a woman falls without getting caught up in the mistake where ones mind is pre-occupied with the thought that "all/most women are bad" which will show through in his behavior.

That's good.

But it would be better to change the terms good/bad to party girls and normal girls.

That would put you in a better frame of mind.

It's common knowledge that party girls are those you avoid for relationship potential and then you zoom in to those normal girls you see everywhere else.

 

[Die Hard]

That's good.

But it would be better to change the terms good/bad to party girls and normal girls.

That would put you in a better frame of mind.

It's common knowledge that party girls are those you avoid for relationship potential and then you zoom in to those normal girls you see everywhere else.

I just use the terms good/bad to keep things simple. Might as well use terms as TYPE A and TYPE B or whatever (and of course there's a whole spectrum in between those two categories). Obviously, there's a lot more behind the terms

 

[Spaz]

I just use the terms good/bad to keep things simple. Might as well use terms as TYPE A and TYPE B or whatever. Obviously, there's a lot more behind it

Yes bro.

Words or terms has the tendency to set up a man's mindset.

But I see you get my meaning.

 

[Die Hard]

Here's something else that's bothering me.

The general consensus over here is that a man should get his life in order and become the best version of himself, not as a means to obtain women but more as an intrinsic goal. Then the women will come as a consequence of achieving that intrinsic goal. Furthermore, it's quite unhealthy if a man only achieves things in life JUST to obtain women, coz that means he basically puts her on a pedestal and bestows immense worth onto her through his actions. It's just not right...

Fine, I get all that. At the same time, I wonder if things need to be black and white when it comes to this. What I mean is, are there only two options?

1. You improve yourself purely because of an extrinsic goal, which is obtaining women
2. You improve yourself as an intrinsic goal and women come as a result

Or are there more shades of grey?

Honestly, I have a tendency to become passive and just live life trying to evade all kinds of responsibilities, not seeking out challenges but rather staying inside my comfort zone. I often postpone things that should get done, even simple things like cleaning up my room or washing my clothes haha. More important things too, but my point is: when you don't feel motivated or have the discipline to do something as simple as cleaning your room or washing your clothes, you're being pretty lowsy and it often is exemplary of your attitude towards life in general.

But when I'm dating a girl that I like, I burst with energy and I get things done. I don't want her to think of me as a lowsy bum lol, so in a way she motivates me to be a better version of myself. Yikes, that's extrinsic motivation and it makes her more important than she should be... As a sidenote, when a new girl stays over at my house, I always worry about cleaning the place up and making a good impression on her. Then as I'm dating her for a while, the honeymoon phase ends and she starts acting like a bytch, I always think to myself "Why the hell did I care about making a good impression on her at the time? I can't believe I put so much energy in cleaning up my house just to make a good impression on this cvnt, she's SO not worth it!"

So I tend to be harsh on myself and tell myself I should first solve my "problem" of having a tendency to slack, evade responsibilities, postpone important things etc. I tell myself that as long as I don't fix that problem internally, I shouldn't expect to land a quality girl. That may be true or not... Maybe you first use a girl as extrinsic motivation to get your life in order, and as you go, it becomes a habit and you learn to internalize the wish to get things done and it becomes an intrinsic part of you in the end.
Furthermore, that "quality girl" won't even know that I used to have an "unresponsible" attitude before meeting her. All she sees is who I am now that I met her. She doesn't know that SHE is the reason I've changed, she hasn't seen me before I was with her lol. So as far as she knows, I've ALWAYS been responsible and all that haha. No need for her to know that she's the cause of it, which would inflate her ego and raise her perceived sense of power over me...

What I'm trying to say (to myself) is: Don't focus too much on the idea that you should FIRST fix yourself and get your life in order, and THEN you'll be able to get (and keep) a quality girl. Perhaps you can get the quality girl sooner and improve yourself as you go along. Akin to the idea that a woman is attracted to a guy even before he achieves his ambitions, as long as she sees that he HAS the ambitions and is actively working on them...

I'm really just talking to myself here and thinking out loud, but feel free to chime in, guys.

I just want to make more out of my life and have a meaningful relationship with a woman. Sometimes I think I can't achieve the former before I achieve the latter (so, I need a meaningful relationship with a woman, which will energize me and motivate me to make more out of my life), but other times I feel I can't achieve the latter before I achieve the former (so, I need to make more out of my life and that will attract a quality woman and allow me to have a meaningful relationship).
They're two separate goals, but they influence each other, and perhaps it's a limiting thought to assume that there's a linear causal relationship between the two, where one has to precede the other. Perhaps they're both part of the same process and there's more of a circular relationship between the two...

Enough thinking for today!!!

 

[Epic Days]

A goddamn lot.

That word when played over and over in ur mind will influence how you interact with ALL women and that will directly affect you in the end.

It's like always saying planes are dangerous and could fall anytime, over and over until it's programmed into ur subconscious.

And the result is either you don't ever fly or when you do its like one of those people with fear of flying - with panic attacks.

You get what I'm saying bro?

It's counter productive.

Very astute post. Pay attention to this. This is true.

 

[zekko]

It seems you're either the guy she wants to fvck or you're the guy she wants to have a stable, long term relationship with (but it requires you to be a loser!).

I've seen this sentiment expressed many, many times on this forum, and every time I do I think it's ridiculous. Which is not to say there isn't some truth to it in a general way, but the best guy IMO is the guy who is both the sex guy AND the guy she wants to keep around. Not to keep around to wait on her and serve her needs, but because you're actually the type of man she wants. I think you're being too cynical by not at least recognizing this as an option.

You know enough that you should be able to be desirable while being aware of the pitfalls of longer relationships, and should be able to avoid them. That doesn't mean you'll succeed, but you never know. This type of guy is supposedly fairly rare. Most guys just follow the "Get an easier life and assume she is always right" advice that they get from sitcoms.

 

[Die Hard]

I've seen this sentiment expressed many, many times on this forum, and every time I do I think it's ridiculous. Which is not to say there isn't some truth to it in a general way, but the best guy IMO is the guy who is both the sex guy AND the guy she wants to keep around. Not to keep around to wait on her and serve her needs, but because you're actually the type of man she wants. I think you're being too cynical by not at least recognizing this as an option.

You know enough that you should be able to be desirable while being aware of the pitfalls of longer relationships, and should be able to avoid them. That doesn't mean you'll succeed, but you never know. This type of guy is supposedly fairly rare. Most guys just follow the "Get an easier life and assume she is always right" advice that they get from sitcoms.

Of course it's an option to be both the sex guy and the guy she wants to keep around, some sort of combination of the jerk and the nice guy, let's say. And on paper, that should be the guy a woman would most prefer. However, in practice most women seem to go for either one of the opposites rather than the combination... One for sex/superficial fling/emotional rush and the other for a stable relationship...

I believe the latter has to do with the fear of not being in control. Many women seem to prefer a relationship with a guy who won't give her too much trouble, a guy who is easier to be manipulated/controlled. It's the safer choice... In a sense, it's exactly the same as for us men, when we say we prefer a modest, agreeable "good" girl for a stable relationship over some mouthy, hot and sexy stripper girl.

In fact, it doesn't even have to come down to those two specific types. I believe many women simply choose a guy who is less desirable (but desirable enough!) over a guy who is extremely desirable. When she meets a guy who is almost perfect in the overall assessment (I mean the whole combination of looks, status, intelligence, character traits and everything else), that guy makes her very uncomfortable. She feels he is too good for her, she worries that he might leave her because she isn't good enough for him, she fears his high confidence and self esteem because a guy with very high confidence and self esteem is more difficult to control etc.

Just think of the following situation: A girl does something that offends the guy or makes him feel bad in some manner. Doesn't matter whether she did it intentionally or not, if the guy has proper self respect, he will tell her the thing she did was not cool. However, if he is afraid to get into an argument with her and suspects she might get angry for him pointing out what she did wrong, he'll let it slide "to keep the peace".
Many women will prefer the latter guy, someone who doesn't give her too much trouble. They prefer an easygoing guy. And this almost necessarily means they prefer a guy who is maybe a bit lower in value than a guy who is extremely high value.
In a relationship, the person who needs the other the least, controls the relationship and has it easier... As a man, you don't want a girl who is too high maintenance either, right? You don't want a girl who requires too much effort to keep her satisfied. And if her sexual market value is a lot higher than yours, or her PERCEIVED sexual market value is higher than yours and she has high confidence/self esteem, she will set high standards for a guy to be in a relationship with him.
High standards = bigger chance for you not to meet them = bigger chance for you being unable to keep her. This will make you insecure and uncomfortable, so it's smarter to pick a girl who is a bit easier to retain.

That's it, many women do just that. They pick a guy who is a little less perfect over a guy who is perfect, because the first guy is easier to maintain a relationship with.

So if you're that perfect guy who combines the sex guy and the nice guy, you may be too perfect for her. She'll rather pick a nice guy for a relationship and occasionally go on a girl's night out to mess around with the sex guy, rather than have a relationship with a guy who combines those two.

Not sure if I'm making sense, I don't have that much time to think about my words right now.

 

[Die Hard]

Actually, I'm running into the same problem myself. As I explained, I'm done with the superfical girls who only offer me a hormonal rush. I want a girl who has more to offer, someone with values, great personality, who I can have a stable relationship with. At the same time, I notice it's hard to find such a girl who ALSO has high sex appeal and is pretty.

But there's one in my social circle who kinda fits that image. She always seems interested in me but I used to disregard her because she is not that sexy, she wears unattractive clothes (not ugly clothes but just clothes that don't accentuate her curves etc. Clothes that you would wear if you DO NOT want guys' attention, doesn't use much make-up, acts kinda controlled and business-like instead of flirty. In fact, she has a pretty face and her body is okay. I guess face 7.5/8 and body 7. But the way she presents herself, both in looks as in behavior, is just very bland. She acts like a robot, lol, there's just no excitement.

At the same time, she's very sweet, kinda shy, seems like someone with good moral values, wants to make the world a better place, has a good heart, very decent, very kind, someone who's honest. I think she'd be a great girlfriend in that regard, I rate her very highly regarding her personality traits. But yeah, very low sex appeal. It's more like I'd choose her as my girlfriend because my rational brain tells me she is a suitable partner, rather than my body/hormonal system/instinct telling me I feel attracted to her and want to kiss her have sex with her etc.

However, I recently saw her wearing some tight jeans and heels, wearing a bit more make-up etc. And she actually did look kinda hot! So I've been thinking about her lately and actually have been trying to convince myself that I should pursue her.
So I ran into her last week and took a good look at her from a distance, lol. She was looking good and I told myself "Dude, she might actually be what you want. She's been in front of you all this time you've known her but you always looked past her because she's so bland. But honestly, look at her, she's quite nice man! And she has those personality traits that you so desperately wish for in a woman!"

And then I turned beta................. It's so fvcking ironic! I kinda realized that she might come close to the unicorn that we're all looking for. The rare quality girl among all the worthless garbage girls. And it turned me into a beta.... I've never been nervous around her before, in fact I always kinda felt sorry for her when she showed signs of interest and I didn't reciprocate, lol. I always perceived her as uninteresting and therefor acted totally confident towards her, whereas she was often acting a little insecure towards me.
But now it was totally different, I was nervous and acted a bit insecure. In fact, there were some moments where it seems like she found me unattractive, the way women see "nice guys" as unattractive and put them in the friendzone...

Basically, I kinda messed up the whole interaction. Was thinking about making a move, like asking her number or whatever. But I got fearful of rejection and it made me hesitate. It was kinda cringeworthy.... I feel like I failed and am totally ashamed of myself... What a fiasco! I almost felt like 14 year old me who had a crush on a girl in high school and didn't dare speak to her! WTF?!?!?!

This was very confronting. I handle hot chicks confidently all the time, but now I turn into a beta with this one. It's exactly because I see her as potential girlfriend material... She actually might have something to offer besides superficial pleasure. And that means she's rare, that she might present a rare chance, which means there's actually something at stake when I try to get her. And that causes outcome dependancy and nervousness when I interact with her. Whereas there was none of that before!! But yeah, now I consider her almost as if she's the solution to this strong displeasement with women that's been constantly bugging me for a while now. Which puts her on a pedestal and ruins everything anyway.... So I guess I do need to work on myself first, the feeling of displeasement comes from a deep desire to experience a healthy stable relationship, which find its roots in a very disturbed relationship with my parents as a child. So I guess I got to go back to the core.....

Anyway, my point is that I kind of encounter the same issue I talked about in the beginning of this post. When you meet someone who seems to have it all, you become insecure, to the point of self-sabotage. I've dated or had relationships with a lot of crappy women (personality wise), most of them had low self esteem and were total drama queens. I've almost never dated an emotionally healthy girl with good moral values, high self esteem etc. Why? Because deep down I'm afraid of them.... Deep down I feel I'm not good enough for them, that I don't deserve them, that I don't have what it takes to make them consider me as their boyfriend (which is exactly what many women experience when they encounter a really great guy and makes them choose a less perfect guy, if you ask me).

I think that's also why I feel aversion to being the sex guy. I've had plenty of encounters where I knew girls wanted to fvck me, but only just that, fvck me.... Some had a boyfriend, some just wanted no relationship with anyone, whatever. And I've capitalized on the opportunity sometimes, but it always left me with a negative feeling. Why does she only want to fvck me? Am I not good enough to be her boyfriend? It messes with my self esteem, basically. In a way, I want to feel validated by knowing that a girl is interested in a relationship with me. If she's not interested in that, I feel there's something "wrong" with me, as if I'm not good enough for her to consider me as a boyfriend. Yeah I know, never look for validation, that's beta and puts you in a weak position, plus she'll see that and lose attraction for you blahblah. But I can tell myself 100 times that I don't need that validation, in the meantime I still feel like I need it deep down inside. I can supress that need and forcefully ignore it to the point that I'm not aware of it anymore, but it's still there at my core, in my subconcsious. And the subconscious has a way of sabotaging you from within when it feels you are ignoring it....

And in fact, there IS something wrong with me that makes me not good enough to be considered as her boyfriend.... I do have issues and would say I'm emotionally unhealthy. I've been emotionally abused as a child and it has left scars and makes me less capable of forming healthy emotional attachments to women. I attract emotionally damaged girls like honey attracts bees, because they and me are alike.
No "good" girl, who had a warm loving family and healthy emotional relationship to her parents, will be attracted to me. Deep down, I know this and I fear it when I meet such a girl, like the one I mentioned earlier. I feel that she's too good for me, that I don't have what it takes to obtain her (or once obtained, to keep her).... So I tend to choose (largely unconsciously) "easier" targets. Girls with low self esteem, who are emotionally damaged, act irresponsible, need to be corrected like little children all the time (but never change their behavior anyway, lol). They're trash.... But maybe I deserve no better, because I'm trash myself....

 

[Die Hard]

I hate thinking about this. It's like a very uncomfortable truth about myself that I'd rather ignore. In daily life, I'm not insecure or incompetent by any means! Not in my personal relationships, my work or my hobbies. People always like to be around me, guys as well as girls. And I actually do very well with women, on a more superficial level.... But I guess that's just the upper layer of myself, the layer that interacts with the outside world in daily life. When the deeper layer of myself gets uncovered, I become unstable. Which mainly happens with regard to establishing a connection to a woman.

And that last paragraph reads exactly like a high-functioning BPD.... Which makes me cringe!

I just feel empty, you know? Daily life masks that feeling....work, friends, hobbies, women etc. As long as you stay busy, you're alright. But under the surface there's always that nagging feeling that something seriously lacks in my life. I've learned to be "happy" on my own, not needing some "significant other". Girls come and go, they're just passersby. I don't really connect to them or let them become part of my life. Partly because the ones I get involved with are not "worthy" of that. I'm not gonna form an emotional connection to a girl who's not a good girl, and I'm not gonna let her into my life either, that would be foolish.

But that doesn't mean that deep down I wouldn't like it to happen. It would be nice to share a genuine connection to someone, right? One where you aren't constantly worried by getting fvcked over by her.... Would also be nice to allow someone into your life and at the same time you becoming part of her life, right? Harmony, balance, stability.... It's nice to have a genuine relationship with someone, right?

Like I said, daily life and superficial contact with women kinda keeps you busy and masks that desire for a genuine relationship. But the desire is there under the surface, regardless.

Self-improvement in all parts of life brings you a long way. But I suspect it's not enough for me to really get me where I want to be in life. I need to experience a healthy, meaningful connection to a woman. Or women (plural). Don't care whether it's one woman for a very long time or several women over the years, but I need to experience something like that. And as I get older, I seriously start wondering whether I want to live life just for myself or whether I am going to start a family and raise kids. If the latter is to be the case, then I DEFINITELY need to form a healthy long term connection to a woman!

I think "happiness" does come down to continuous self-improvement in all aspects of life. But in my case, that must also include some deep therapy, trying to fix some serious issues at my core. Unless I solve that piece of the puzzle, all the other elements of self-improvement seem to be useless, or insufficient anyway. And I don't think I can ever experience a healthy relationship with a woman as long as I don't solve thoser deeper issues at my core either.

So I'm going to look for a good therapist. Needs to be a guy and definitely needs to be a "red pill" guy... Good luck with that in this day and age, lol. But let's see...

 

[RetiredArchitect]

Actually, I'm running into the same problem myself. As I explained, I'm done with the superfical girls who only offer me a hormonal rush. I want a girl who has more to offer, someone with values, great personality, who I can have a stable relationship with. At the same time, I notice it's hard to find such a girl who ALSO has high sex appeal and is pretty.

But there's one in my social circle who kinda fits that image. She always seems interested in me but I used to disregard her because she is not that sexy, she wears unattractive clothes (not ugly clothes but just clothes that don't accentuate her curves etc. Clothes that you would wear if you DO NOT want guys' attention, doesn't use much make-up, acts kinda controlled and business-like instead of flirty. In fact, she has a pretty face and her body is okay. I guess face 7.5/8 and body 7. But the way she presents herself, both in looks as in behavior, is just very bland. She acts like a robot, lol, there's just no excitement.

At the same time, she's very sweet, kinda shy, seems like someone with good moral values, wants to make the world a better place, has a good heart, very decent, very kind, someone who's honest. I think she'd be a great girlfriend in that regard, I rate her very highly regarding her personality traits. But yeah, very low sex appeal. It's more like I'd choose her as my girlfriend because my rational brain tells me she is a suitable partner, rather than my body/hormonal system/instinct telling me I feel attracted to her and want to kiss her have sex with her etc.

However, I recently saw her wearing some tight jeans and heels, wearing a bit more make-up etc. And she actually did look kinda hot! So I've been thinking about her lately and actually have been trying to convince myself that I should pursue her.
So I ran into her last week and took a good look at her from a distance, lol. She was looking good and I told myself "Dude, she might actually be what you want. She's been in front of you all this time you've known her but you always looked past her because she's so bland. But honestly, look at her, she's quite nice man! And she has those personality traits that you so desperately wish for in a woman!"

And then I turned beta................. It's so fvcking ironic! I kinda realized that she might come close to the unicorn that we're all looking for. The rare quality girl among all the worthless garbage girls. And it turned me into a beta.... I've never been nervous around her before, in fact I always kinda felt sorry for her when she showed signs of interest and I didn't reciprocate, lol. I always perceived her as uninteresting and therefor acted totally confident towards her, whereas she was often acting a little insecure towards me.
But now it was totally different, I was nervous and acted a bit insecure. In fact, there were some moments where it seems like she found me unattractive, the way women see "nice guys" as unattractive and put them in the friendzone...

Basically, I kinda messed up the whole interaction. Was thinking about making a move, like asking her number or whatever. But I got fearful of rejection and it made me hesitate. It was kinda cringeworthy.... I feel like I failed and am totally ashamed of myself... What a fiasco! I almost felt like 14 year old me who had a crush on a girl in high school and didn't dare speak to her! WTF?!?!?!

This was very confronting. I handle hot chicks confidently all the time, but now I turn into a beta with this one. It's exactly because I see her as potential girlfriend material... She actually might have something to offer besides superficial pleasure. And that means she's rare, that she might present a rare chance, which means there's actually something at stake when I try to get her. And that causes outcome dependancy and nervousness when I interact with her. Whereas there was none of that before!! But yeah, now I consider her almost as if she's the solution to this strong displeasement with women that's been constantly bugging me for a while now. Which puts her on a pedestal and ruins everything anyway.... So I guess I do need to work on myself first, the feeling of displeasement comes from a deep desire to experience a healthy stable relationship, which find its roots in a very disturbed relationship with my parents as a child. So I guess I got to go back to the core.....

Anyway, my point is that I kind of encounter the same issue I talked about in the beginning of this post. When you meet someone who seems to have it all, you become insecure, to the point of self-sabotage. I've dated or had relationships with a lot of crappy women (personality wise), most of them had low self esteem and were total drama queens. I've almost never dated an emotionally healthy girl with good moral values, high self esteem etc. Why? Because deep down I'm afraid of them.... Deep down I feel I'm not good enough for them, that I don't deserve them, that I don't have what it takes to make them consider me as their boyfriend (which is exactly what many women experience when they encounter a really great guy and makes them choose a less perfect guy, if you ask me).

I think that's also why I feel aversion to being the sex guy. I've had plenty of encounters where I knew girls wanted to fvck me, but only just that, fvck me.... Some had a boyfriend, some just wanted no relationship with anyone, whatever. And I've capitalized on the opportunity sometimes, but it always left me with a negative feeling. Why does she only want to fvck me? Am I not good enough to be her boyfriend? It messes with my self esteem, basically. In a way, I want to feel validated by knowing that a girl is interested in a relationship with me. If she's not interested in that, I feel there's something "wrong" with me, as if I'm not good enough for her to consider me as a boyfriend. Yeah I know, never look for validation, that's beta and puts you in a weak position, plus she'll see that and lose attraction for you blahblah. But I can tell myself 100 times that I don't need that validation, in the meantime I still feel like I need it deep down inside. I can supress that need and forcefully ignore it to the point that I'm not aware of it anymore, but it's still there at my core, in my subconcsious. And the subconscious has a way of sabotaging you from within when it feels you are ignoring it....

And in fact, there IS something wrong with me that makes me not good enough to be considered as her boyfriend.... I do have issues and would say I'm emotionally unhealthy. I've been emotionally abused as a child and it has left scars and makes me less capable of forming healthy emotional attachments to women. I attract emotionally damaged girls like honey attracts bees, because they and me are alike.
No "good" girl, who had a warm loving family and healthy emotional relationship to her parents, will be attracted to me. Deep down, I know this and I fear it when I meet such a girl, like the one I mentioned earlier. I feel that she's too good for me, that I don't have what it takes to obtain her (or once obtained, to keep her).... So I tend to choose (largely unconsciously) "easier" targets. Girls with low self esteem, who are emotionally damaged, act irresponsible, need to be corrected like little children all the time (but never change their behavior anyway, lol). They're trash.... But maybe I deserve no better, because I'm trash myself....

Expectations my brother, whether it’s good or bad.

Keep your eyes open but don’t put any expectations on the future, it can chase away girls you are interested in or misjudge good girls who you might judge wrong as being hot bimbos

 

[RetiredArchitect]

After a further read, I see and empathise with what you are going through.

There is nothing more exciting than meeting a new girl and feeling the intrigue and idealisation that comes from her. In this moment it is up to you in terms how you frame your future with her, the way you plan and think in your mind about her will have inverse results to what you want.

Focus on being a social and kind person that conveys the strengths that these girls are interested in. Deep down a lot of women are timid and insecure, so if you try and act like an alpha male around them; you can create anxiety in them.

I suggest maybe you do some activities you have always wanted to do or potentially share how you are feeling emotionally with a professional.

The weight you have on your heart is something I can tell you want to share with a lover and have her accept you for it. Truth is that no woman deep down wants to know about the storm in a mans heart, she will never be interested in substituting the love of a lost parent with hers.

You have brothers on this forum that want to see you do well, however like women we cannot fill that void in your heart until you accept yourself as who you are on calm and boring days.

Have fun and look to treat people well, do not split women into wifey or hoe category and do not look for someone to put the weight of your heart on unless they are a trained professional

 

[zekko]

Of course it's an option to be both the sex guy and the guy she wants to keep around, some sort of combination of the jerk and the nice guy, let's say. And on paper, that should be the guy a woman would most prefer. However, in practice most women seem to go for either one of the opposites rather than the combination... One for sex/superficial fling/emotional rush and the other for a stable relationship...

I believe the latter has to do with the fear of not being in control.

Regarding the bolded part: But is that because that is their preference? Or is it because the combination is rare and hard to find?

That said, there is always some variation in people when it comes to attraction, which is one reason I never take these hard and fast PUA rules too seriously. But you're right, some women want to be in control. Still, we're told that women are attracted to strong men, so I find it hard to believe that most women will choose a weak men when they can get a stronger one. Even if logic tells us they can manipulate the weaker man and get an easier life. But logic aside, their emotions alone should draw them more toward the strong man. And we're told women go more by their emotions than logic.

Even if none of that were true, I would still want the best qualities of the sex guy, protector, and provider types. Because those qualities will make MY life better, women or not.

 

[Die Hard]

Couldn't be bothered to post or read here for a while.

So what's happened over the last 3 months? Baby steps... Got into therapy, just a few sessions in, not sure yet what to make of my therapist but at least things have been set in motion and I'm committed to make some core changes to myself.

Women have been a minor concern these last 3 months. The focus was on other interests and...myself. But yeah, you run into women regardless, I just didn't put much value onto them. Whether it's women themselves or me not being competent enough to lead them (or the combination of the two), I just didn't see much value in pursuing them anymore. Sex drive never disappeared but that's easily treated with porn and my right hand (as pathetic as that might sound, in a way), so what do I really need women for again? I just looked at them and thought to myself: "How overrated you are... What trouble and stress you cause... How low the return on investment with you..." I just smiled and laughed inside when I looked at them, coz in the past I would always be in this "it's on!" state with beautiful girls around me. Like I HAD to make a good impression on them and HAD to win them over. Now I was like "I'll be just fine whether I succeed with you or not. I don't need you".

I noticed that I got a lot more attention because of this attitude. I guess that's the victory here. But I also noticed that once they bite (as fish bite when you are fishing) I quickly fall back into my old attitude. I become outcome dependent. So I'm only halfway there haha. Can find the right attitude towards women in general, but can't KEEP that attitude once things progress.

Like I said earlier, baby steps. I need to do some serious work on my core before stuff like this will change, I suspect...

There as one girl who basically signalled tome that she would like to meet up and was ready to fvck. She was kind of a 6.5/7 though, and I just didn't feel enthusiastic about her. And I had a date with some other chick but she was way too fickle and the same kined of crazy emotionally disturbed type That I always attract. Nice date, ended up kissing etc. good chemistry. She seemed eager to meet again but she started playing too many texting games, rapidly prolonging her response times and eventually going off air for a few days (while she responded very quickly before). On top of all the other red flags, this just did it for me. Told her I was done with her and wished her all the best. Had already written her off as anything long term. Thought about fvcking her just once and then be done with it. But that one time in bed isn't worth dealing with the texting games and bullshyt. I get too frustrated buy that shyt. That's on me I guess, been trying to get better at dealing with that bullshyt for years but just can't do it. If she had long term value, I guess I'd have motivation to deal with this bullshyt. But just to get in her panties? Fvck off... Go bother some other dude with that stuff.

Gotta admit I'm tempted to think of this as another "negative" experience with women, **** EM ALL, LEAVE ME ALONE! But I notice I still have that attitude in reach that I had for almost 3 months, where I'm okay whether I do or don't succeed with women. It doesn't go without a struggle but I feel I can get back to that attitude. It's like a safe haven I can return to, in a way.

So yeah, things like that can be regarded as progress. In the past, I always fell into a void, like a big black hole of chaos, if I had no success with women. Now I'm developing some sort of inner peace that I can get into, instead of that black hole. Like an army base that you can return to after going on a mission in the desert. Developing tools like these, getting better at navigating situations, it's progress. Maybe once my safe core is strong enough, that allows me to become better at not giving a fvck about texting games? But really, these things go very slowly, it's really just baby steps. I have a lot of work ahead of me...

 

[Polysix]

Sounds like a good progression. Keep it up man!

 

[AttackFormation]

"Wage slave" is a term not yet mentioned on this thread. I saw a lot of nerdy guys in law school who were hopeless with women, but graduated and passed the bar exam, and suddenly had a pretty wife...what a coincidence. When trying to make partner, a young attorney is expected to bill 60-80 hours a week, which means working 100+ hours. The wife gets to pop out a kid or two and spend all her time with them, and hardly ever even have to see her husband. It is a lot of reward for very little work. By the way, I see the pics scroll by on facebook, and those same guys are on the aging fast track. I was about ten years older than them when we were in school ten years ago. Now most of them look older than me. They are selling their souls for wealth that the wife could take away with divorce whenever she wants.

Any update on these guys Bible?

 

[Die Hard]

Sounds like a good progression. Keep it up man!

Thanks for the support!

I'm getting a sh!tload of attention from women around me this last week. Some of them push my limits when it comes to patience and keeping myself in check. For example, when they play hard to get but totally overdo it to the point where it just kills your vibe instead of raising your interest, or when they don't surrender to my frame and try to get me to surrender to their frame, or when they show interest and then go talking to another dude to make you jaleous, stuff like that.

I've always stood my ground in those situations and remained calm on the outside, but there would be big frustration inside of me.
But now I'm able to dissolve that frustration, I just see it all as a game and keep returning to my core feeling that I am just fine whether chicks co-operate with me or not.

Basic DJ stuff, she either co-operates or you NEXT her and move on to another one. Simple theory but not so easy in practice...it would always get to me when I failed to get a girl while she initially showed high interest. No I just tell myself "Whatever... Who cares? It's her loss"

Moreover, I kinda give off that vibe from the moment I start interacting with a woman. She kinda knows upfront that this is my attitude, from the way I carry myself. This in and of itself raises their interest, it seems.

I'm literally just experiencing all of this since the last week or two, it's new territory but very interesting haha. Haven't been on a date in three months but now I've been making out with two different girls in the last ten days. So let's see if I can keep this momentum going.