Being a 30's Male + debunking 'SMV' chart

[IKO69]

Personally speaking things are easier for me now compared to when I was in my 20's. I have also changed quite a bit since those days.

I don't think age has anything to do with it (other than perhaps in your 20's you will be around 20ish year old women because of university etc).

 

[SW15]

Have you tried that opener yourself? I'd imagine me being 5'6" and bald will not have the warm receptions Juan has with this opener. I'll give it a try sometime, and report back on this.

I have not tried that opener but I am willing to try it. 5'6" & bald is rough.

 

[TitusRamsies]

One factor the smv charts do not delve into is proximity. In my psychology of sex class(in college), we were taught that proximity is the number one predictor of relationship forming(obviously there is a ****-ton of other variables). People self-segregate: generally high schoolers date other high schoolers, physicians date others in the health care field, etc. I do believe that in a closed environment where everyone interacted equally (regardless of age), the SMV charts would be more accurate. That being said if you are in your 30s in shape, have a good career, and have charisma/game younger women will pine for you. So either you need to work on yourself as a male or actively seek opportunities to interact with younger women, the likelihood is that you need to do both. Even moving to a bigger city can do wonders for your ability to meet younger women. High school and college are fairly closed circuits so it's harder to infiltrate those women unless you go to bars and clubs or somehow are in close proximity to campus. After college, it's all fair game, typically (most women graduate college around 22y.o). The reality is you don't have a ton of excuses.

 

[SW15]

One factor the smv charts do not delve into is proximity. In my psychology of sex class(in college), we were taught that proximity is the number one predictor of relationship forming(obviously there is a ****-ton of other variables). People self-segregate: generally high schoolers date other high schoolers, physicians date others in the health care field, etc. I do believe that in a closed environment where everyone interacted equally (regardless of age), the SMV charts would be more accurate.

Proximity and access is the biggest thing. The biggest problem for men in their 30s as I'll illustrate below is proximity, though I agree that there are other factors. Most men in their 30s end up with some woman in her 30s. Some of the upper tier 30 something men might do better with 30 something women and experience some moderate success. The success they experience is would look something like having fewer failed first dates as a 35-38 year old pursuing 31-51 year old women as compared to their 25-28 year old selves pursuing 21-25 year olds. Or you might see a 37 year old man with a fit 34 year old whereas when he was 27, fit 24 year olds were rejecting him.

if you are in your 30s in shape, have a good career, and have charisma/game younger women will pine for you. So either you need to work on yourself as a male or actively seek opportunities to interact with younger women, the likelihood is that you need to do both.

All this is a tall order for most 30 something men. A lot of the men with some career achievements at that age with either be bland beta males with middling to subpar social skills and/or out of shape. This is why most men in their 30s are pusssy beggars for women close to their own age, some of whom are single moms. Today's 30 something man is a Millennial and Millennials have higher rates of childlessness, so in a lot of the urban areas with population in the high hundreds or thousands or millions, the 30 something man is chasing some childless 30 something careerist who has either failed to get a ring from multiple longer term relationships, gotten divorced after 2-5 years, or has ridden the cocck carousel to some degree. All of those varieties of childless woman are superior to the 30 something single mom version that is likely more common in smaller cities/suburbs or rural areas.

The likelihood as a 30 something male is that you need to be both a self improver and actively seek out younger women to a great degree. The degree to which you will need to seek that out is higher than you can likely conceive for most men.

Even moving to a bigger city can do wonders for your ability to meet younger women. High school and college are fairly closed circuits so it's harder to infiltrate those women unless you go to bars and clubs or somehow are in close proximity to campus. After college, it's all fair game, typically (most women graduate college around 22y.o). The reality is you don't have a ton of excuses.

Moving to a bigger city is probably a better move for a 32-39 year old looking for the 22-27 year old population. A lot of newer college graduates tend to go to certain big cities with solid job markets.

Other than going to bars near a college campus, the 30 something man isn't interacting with undergraduate aged women (18-22). Even 22-28 year old women in graduate school programs are a bit more difficult to access for a 30 something man. Additionally, slightly older women who pursue graduate level degrees tend to be more feminist/careerist and less likely to make a good girlfriend. The typical 30 something guy isn't going to plant himself on campus and randomly do approaches. I did approaches one time on a college campus as a 30 something year old man and I'm probably ahead of most 30 something men in doing that. Most men would need to do multiple campus approach sessions to get something out of it.

 

[characternote]

Proximity and access is the biggest thing

yes, I mention propinquity here:

Being a 30's Male + debunking 'SMV' chart

Hi, I'm not sure if many have experienced this/noticed/posted, the issue I am facing and questioning is as I've entered my 30's my attraction to women my age and 30+ women is almost non existent - How do I exactly Mature to be attracted to them? I find women in my age group very mild, all I...

www.sosuave.net

I think it's a fairly big factor. With this girl, in hindsight and assuming what she tells me is true, I COULD have just walked up to her on the street or in a bar and banged her. She basically told me i'm her type and she thought I was hot (note: I'm not conventionally hot at all! But different girls have different tastes)

But i'm confident there's been other times recently where i've hooked up with girls, including teenagers nearly 20 years my junior(!), who i'd have been very likely rejected by if I cold approached them.

I think physical attraction is always a pre-requisite. 'Game' can't bypass that. But unless you are stupidly handsome, she is going to weigh up other things such as your age. Propinquity seems to 'dull' that concern somewhat in my experience

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

So that everyone understands who we are talking about, ThatWasEpic is some entertaining channel on YouTube. He's supposedly doing approaches more for fun than actual pickup. This guy, who is named Juan, is a solid approacher. He's definitely over 6'0", which is rare for a Hispanic guy.

There's 1 where he rolls up on 3 college girls, she was smitten from go, and you couldn't falsify her response. Granted, he's tall, closer to Chad then Shrek, and natural not pua. He's put more reps in then most YouTube guru vs buy my rubbish program &&& ebook. No receipts.

Notice his first approach with Bianca the redhead there. At :26 with the hair flip, you know she was totally down. At :29, her smile and body language are great.

Not everyone is as tall, charismatic or ballsy but it goes to show what can be done with reps and putting in work. You see similar stuff with other pranksters like vitally and Connor Murphy both who have since gone insane. Similarly, there seems to be a lot of insanity in pickup.

Most guys don't approach. Most guys can't do random, non-bar approaches. I do it, you do it, and many of the guys on this forum do it. @Zimbabwe has been doing it more.

Most fellas sperging out on YouTube don't approach. The amount of fraud is next level. Reminds me of the sherdog forums where morons will bash pro fighters because everyone posting is a Internet tough guy. The actual going out and getting girls is the work. Bending the knee and playing house + starting a YouTube channel is the easy part. Growing an audience takes work.

I'm a firm believer that it's almost better to learn from naturals. There is less crazy that seeks to follow pua or rp. The problem with naturals is that, they don't know what the future they are doing that gets results. They just know it works. Also many are domain dependent.

Catch and release as you say it is one valid solution. Another valid solution is longer term relationships with no marriage and babies. Realize that most LTRs run their course and get out before it goes too bad. That is probably a slightly slower version of catch and release, but still catch and release.

I likely would adopt a different perspective in a more traditional environment not western. Was seeing a Clarey podcast on having something like you said and no live in gf. no kids or playing house. The nuclear option is walking. The problem is most fellas want kids. Even your ultra giga playboy like a tate wants kids. It just doesn't work here.

Enjoy the decline and pillage what you can are the ways to live. It is always funny to observe life trolling women.

Running into a girl from your past is comedy. I thought it was a one off when I started. It's absurd just how common feminism and modern women are.

The modern mating environment is like walking through a fire. You're going to get burned at some point. I've endured massive trauma as a result of doing what I have done for the last 22 years. But I've managed the downside well. No kids, no divorce rape.

Most don't have the balls to go through with the process or sperg once the walls of reality come crashing down. Once you see female nature. Even then fellas still sign up to get slaughtered. Gen Z has been red pulled boot first. Your point on trauma is spot on. Opting out isn't a solution. See the chess board for how it is. Play the game better is the only way forward. Just think of the reps you put in over 22yrs. Not ebooks or shilling rubbish. Putting work in where now sniper approaching makes sense. The juice must be worth the squeeze. Plus you want to preserve energy which isn't finite.

Porn is bad. We were not meant to wank it out to images/videos of hot broads getting their pusssies pounded by another dude. That's soft cucking. We must be the ones doing the seducing and pounding vag. Approaching is the first step in a 1,000 mile journey towards pounding vag.

It's intentionally done. Any guy to say they never watch porn ever is talking ****. It's easy to fap. Another thing to go get girls. The society pushes sedation of porn ie soft cucking but again there's no ambiguity. TV and most of online is cucked. It's not a dhv. It's premeditated to get sedation and force spectator mode which is most men.

Too many men today play house. Bad idea. It is a civilization in decline when playing house with a woman is a bad idea. You're more likely to break up with the woman who gives birth to your child than still be with her by the time the first kid turns 18.

You reside in one of the very few strongholds left in the planet. TV has got people into believing that sovereignty and freedom are gone. It's BS. Marriage in and of itself isn't bad. It's cucked here because of government intervention at the head of the home. Compliance is weakkkk.

Feminism, modern women, Hollywood, government, etc are all symptoms of a much larger problem. It's all been there to destroy the nuclear family. The gender was was to divide men and women. The promo for boss girl and affirmative action was for more tax dollars and indentured servitude.

RM 4 was good but I do wish he went in more on specific deficits documented in scripture. I linked a article before on the Gita; "out of the corruption of women comes the corruption of nations." Here we are in 2022. The bible points out the serpent approaching the woman first and the man supplicating to her poor choice after. You have the fall of Solomon or Samson having his eyes taken out after "being vulnerable. " forget any magical thinking but from a allegory perspective even, these are some serious flaws accurately depicted in ancient text.

Clarey busted on the prodigal son parable. There has to be a way back. People self delete otherwise. The notion was not the ski down cawk mountain, be a train wreck, gang bangs, and bastard children. There was repentance. There was the point about sleeping with the pigs and farm animals. Women and feminism hijacked the following narrative to spoon feed their own stupidity and backwards rational after the milk goes bad. The following is eroding in the Muslim faith as well.

You or I could go into these environments and pickup but it's more of the same old same modern women dumpster fire by and large. Ask me how I know lulz!

I learned to conserve energy with game a long time ago. I realized in my 20s that I'd be in the whole pickup/seduction/non-marital relationships for a long time. That's how I learned to be a non-bar approacher. When I was 18-25, my game was off campus college parties in apartments and bars/nightclubs. I did almost no day game. I reinvented myself in my late 20s as a day game specialist. Being a day game specialist is more sustainable.

I did both BUT I really flipped the script once I saw the erosion of liberty.

With lock downs and even being on my purpose, I don't have the time to rampage through clubs like I did. Special occasions here on. Put work in when out everywhere. I think pickup fails because too much are obsessed with their and they don't integrate it as a way of life. Rp is all theory (i don't necessarily disagree with mostly) but No reps.

Imagine trying to get deezd and you don't exercise lulz!

 

[SW15]

The problem is most fellas want kids.

Yes, this is an issue that affects how most relationships progress.

The guy I consider my closest friend had this issue, which is why he put a ring on it. They had moved into the same apartment together before he put a ring on it.

One day I asked him "If you were living with your girlfriend, why bother to get married? Why not keep living together in perpetuity?"

He responded "Because we want to have children together."

Conversation turned to something else.

This guy was playing house and then as @samspade would say, he decided to have a threesome with the United States government. It's not exactly a threesome but more like a polyamorous relationship.

How's that threesome/poly relationship working out for him?

He's been married 4 years and the wife has gained a noticeable amount of weight without having any children yet.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Yes, this is an issue that affects how most relationships progress.

The guy I consider my closest friend had this issue, which is why he put a ring on it. They had moved into the same apartment together before he put a ring on it.

One day I asked him "If you were living with your girlfriend, why bother to get married? Why not keep living together in perpetuity?"

He responded "Because we want to have children together."

One of my mate's answered the same thing when I asked him. In fairness, he did the playboy thing on the way out of the womb. Was "that guy." Natural. Never learned pickup. Girls liked him off rip. More importantly, he has dark triad traits. Likely why we get on so well. On a boys trips once upon a time while in school drunken bender, he narrated his approach to game.

"The way you get these bitches, you chop down their self esteem like at lumber jack."

He then berated some skank at a after party who was all over him in about 5min flat. Just for catch and release. He had her strip for him and he bailed because he was unavailable &&& FLEX. Talk **** and brag later. He's a riot. Playing house now but, never lost the edge. Pulled his @ peak smv early 20s.

For fellas looking at doing the house and white picket fence, playboy did it right. Herein lies the blueprint for anybody looking @Zimbabwe ! Best days or gtfo @baeeeees!!

Conversation turned to something else.

This guy was playing house and then as @samspade would say, he decided to have a threesome with the United States government. It's not exactly a threesome but more like a polyamorous relationship.

How's that threesome/poly relationship working out for him?

One of biggest critiques of rp is the majority are playing house. Don't get married, bash marriage but

BRB guys, playing house & bending the knee.

I mostly agree with the theory but, I see a lack of follow through. I hold a fella like troy Francis on another level because he walks the walk nearly 50. Podcasts live with infield approaches. NOBODY does that on YouTube. It's so extra but a flex in a unregulated space full of posers.

He's been married 4 years and the wife has gained a noticeable amount of weight without having any children yet.

It's female nature particularly in the west. I think somebody like a Rollo could be helpful but not sure he would listen.

I think Clarey is right about cohabitation.

 

[hardboiled85]

that being said if you are in your 30s in shape, have a good career, and have charisma/game younger women will pine for you

Again, sorry this isn't directed at you -- but this is beta bucks and exactly what I am getting at in OP -- Money, resources, all stuff she wants from a nice safe man, while she bangs some random fit fake confident dude always smiling and being 'cool' on the side. "Allegedly" men's SMV at 38 is the same as a girl at 23
IF THIS IS THE CASE. THE MAN, OR YOU SHOULD BE ****ING A WHOLE RANGE OF YOUNG WOMEN 20 - 25 EASILY
IF YOU, WE, MEN ARE REQUIRED TO BE "WELL OFF, GOOD AT FILLING HER GAS TANK AND CHECKING HER TIRES, IN GOOD SHAPE WITH A GREAAAT POTENTIAL FUTURE AT INTERTROBE" =
YOU ARE A BETA PROVIDER, SAFE PROTECTION MAN.
HENCE THE THREAD LOL

 

[Plinco]

Again, sorry this isn't directed at you -- but this is beta bucks and exactly what I am getting at in OP -- Money, resources, all stuff she wants from a nice safe man, while she bangs some random fit fake confident dude always smiling and being 'cool' on the side. "Allegedly" men's SMV at 38 is the same as a girl at 23
IF THIS IS THE CASE. THE MAN, OR YOU SHOULD BE ****ING A WHOLE RANGE OF YOUNG WOMEN 20 - 25 EASILY
IF YOU, WE, MEN ARE REQUIRED TO BE "WELL OFF, GOOD AT FILLING HER GAS TANK AND CHECKING HER TIRES, IN GOOD SHAPE WITH A GREAAAT POTENTIAL FUTURE AT INTERTROBE" =
YOU ARE A BETA PROVIDER, SAFE PROTECTION MAN.
HENCE THE THREAD LOL

I'm guessing this is true in your experience and a self-fulling prophesy

 

[SW15]

Interesting. I'm curious of a few things. How old is this friend of yours? Did he gain weight too? Did he sincerely want kids?

He is 32. He has not gained weight since the wedding day. He's had a good fitness regimen over the 10 years that I've known him. When I met him in 2011, he had already been in a relationship with the woman who is now his wife for a year. They met in college. His now wife has never been Miss Fitness. She was naturally thin due to good metabolism or not overeating. However, she never maintained a great gym/fitness regimen. In 2015, they had a small pool party with some closer friends a few weeks after moving into an apartment together. I noticed her quads/thighs were looking a little thunderous and not due to being muscular. Her physical decline was slow from 2011 - until the onset of the pandemic. In 2011, in her early 20s, I would have rated her a 7 (borderline cute/hot). In Summer 2021, I noticed that her midsection was looking noticeably rounder. It was definitely flabby and a spare type look.

I think he sincerely wants kids. He put a ring on her for the purposes of having kids. He could have lived together with her for whatever the lifespan of the relationsip ends up being if he didn't want kids. She wants kids too.

They started playing house soon after moving in together. They got a dog within a couple of months of living together. Within the first year of living together is when he proposed marriage to her.

I can understand avoiding the beta bucks / playing house mentality in your 20s and 30s. I'm upper 40s and although in practice I think a kid would fukk up my life, in theory I like the idea. However my filtering is good and I mostly date younger, non-bytchy foreign women.

I'm of two minds, on the one hand doing street approaches at 50+ sounds dumb. On the other, it's hard to ever envision selling out my personal freedom. This isn't because I don't think I could pull - I can always pull. This is just where my mentality is lately.

I think it is better to have kids earlier in life. As a man, if you have kids later in life, raising kids can get in the way of retirement plans. If you have kids in your 40s, it is likely that core parental responsibilities won't be done until your 60s. I perceive that it is ideal to have all of your kids be 18 by the time you turn 55 if you choose to have them.

I think the term outdoor approaching is better. Approaching women at a park or on a walking/hiking park when you are 50-55 sounds better than approaching on some street with moderate to heavy pedestrian traffic. It's a shame that the grocery store has been ruined by masks because grocery store approaching isn't much different at 60 than 30.

Good choice on younger, not biitchy foreign women. Younger becomes a relative term. A 50 year man with a 35 year old woman is getting a much younger woman. A 37 year old man with a 35 year old woman isn't impressive. In general, a 35 year old woman isn't a young woman but 35 is a good catch at 50. It's really tough to be 50-55 and pulling 24-28 year olds.

 

[B80]

He is 32. He has not gained weight since the wedding day. He's had a good fitness regimen over the 10 years that I've known him. When I met him in 2011, he had already been in a relationship with the woman who is now his wife for a year. They met in college. His now wife has never been Miss Fitness. She was naturally thin due to good metabolism or not overeating. However, she never maintained a great gym/fitness regimen. In 2015, they had a small pool party with some closer friends a few weeks after moving into an apartment together. I noticed her quads/thighs were looking a little thunderous and not due to being muscular. Her physical decline was slow from 2011 - until the onset of the pandemic. In 2011, in her early 20s, I would have rated her a 7 (borderline cute/hot). In Summer 2021, I noticed that her midsection was looking noticeably rounder. It was definitely flabby and a spare type look.

I think he sincerely wants kids. He put a ring on her for the purposes of having kids. He could have lived together with her for whatever the lifespan of the relationsip ends up being if he didn't want kids. She wants kids too.

They started playing house soon after moving in together. They got a dog within a couple of months of living together. Within the first year of living together is when he proposed marriage to her.



I think it is better to have kids earlier in life. As a man, if you have kids later in life, raising kids can get in the way of retirement plans. If you have kids in your 40s, it is likely that core parental responsibilities won't be done until your 60s. I perceive that it is ideal to have all of your kids be 18 by the time you turn 55 if you choose to have them.

I think the term outdoor approaching is better. Approaching women at a park or on a walking/hiking park when you are 50-55 sounds better than approaching on some street with moderate to heavy pedestrian traffic. It's a shame that the grocery store has been ruined by masks because grocery store approaching isn't much different at 60 than 30.

Good choice on younger, not biitchy foreign women. Younger becomes a relative term. A 50 year man with a 35 year old woman is getting a much younger woman. A 37 year old man with a 35 year old woman isn't impressive. In general, a 35 year old woman isn't a young woman but 35 is a good catch at 50. It's really tough to be 50-55 and pulling 24-28 year olds.

Guess on the other side of coin, you may be in more stable position, already done the grind of long hours in job/business when you were younger without the responsibility of kids. Live in nicer area, spouse cut give up work, cut back hours etc.

A lot of variables involved of course.

 

[SW15]

Guess on the other side of coin, you may be in more stable position, already done the grind of long hours in job/business when you were younger without the responsibility of kids. Live in nicer area, spouse cut give up work, cut back hours etc.

A lot of variables involved of course.

Yes, a lot of variables involved. If you have 2 kids between 40-44 for instance, then they won't finish high school until you are 58-62. If you want to help fund a child's college education, then college won't end until you are 62-66. Since the latter part of Gen X (1977-1981 births), it has been common for adults in their 20s to live at home with the parents for a period time. This practice got normalized with the first half of the Millennials (1982-1989 births) who couldn't get jobs as young adults during the 2008-2012 recession/recessionary period. Also, college has gotten a lot more expensive since the 1990s. By the time a child is fully and securely independent, it's possible to be around 70-72 years old.

Both white collar and blue collar men want to start scaling back their work responsibilities around 55-60. Blue collar men might not be physically capable of their line of work around 55-60. White collar men can often handle the physical demands of their work but they might start to feel their cognitive energy slip. In most cases, actual cognitive decline can be warded off until 65-70, which helps extend white collar careers. However, it is best to retire while you are still both mentally and physically healthy.

To me, this is why men between 35-40 who are childless have to give serious consideration to remaining childless for life. I think men should have their last kid by 37-38. A childless has the freedom to retire earlier than if he were spending ages 35-55 supporting kids. Retiring at 55-60 is totally reasonable for the childless male.

A childless 35-40 male can have sex with 20-26 year old women if he's fit and rich enough. If those relationships go no more than 3 years, those women won't be hearing their bio clocks tick and all will be well for that time. When a man gets into his 40s, he can still go for younger women who don't want kids or a fellow childless 40 something woman who has remained fit and possibly had some plastic surgery procedures to enhance her youthfulness.

 

[hardboiled85]

I'm guessing this is true in your experience and a self-fulling prophesy

Experience somewhat, but I am calling out this thing to see if there is anyone ACTUALLY LIVING IT, this whole narrative that seems to be peddled everywhere in the manosphere, but never really seen in the farkosphere.
Sure, maybe Rollo was right - at 30 something your 5hit is more in order, you have some money and confidence, so the women flock around you --but it was never stated specifically the QUALITY of women; can you now get alotabaggage 30+ wall damage 5/10's yes, can you summon six 8/10 22 year olds now? for nothing but being the prize like women can at their SMV peak? NOPE. = FANTASY DENIED.

 

[hardboiled85]

this is why men between 35-40 who are childless have to give serious consideration to remaining childless for life

And also why you need to vet your women like she was an insurgent on your side, and her actions and character were the difference between winning a war.

 

[Plinco]

... but never really seen in the farkosphere.

That sentence made me laugh

Sure, maybe Rollo was right - at 30 something your 5hit is more in order, you have some money and confidence, so the women flock around you --but it was never stated specifically the QUALITY of women; can you know get alotabaggage 30+ wall damage 5/10's yes, can you summon six 8/10 22 year olds now? for nothing but being the prize like women can at their SMV peak? NOPE. = FANTASY DENIED.

To be honest I don't know. I've stringed along average 18 yo's at in my early 30's, but not hot ones, so you might be right.

 

[hardboiled85]

so you might be right.

Trust me, I don't want to be right about it - - I've got snips of men quoting this and that about being older and thats when the younger ones start noticing and eye ****ing you - and yes, I'm getting that now here and there.
Back in the Roosh Return of Kings days I read many stories - In hope for my future.

Here's one from like 2014 on reddit

 

[Plinco]

Trust me, I don't want to be right about it - - I've got snips of men quoting this and that about being older and thats when the younger ones start noticing and eye ****ing you - and yes, I'm getting that now here and there.
Back in the Roosh Return of Kings days I read many stories - In hope for my future.

Here's one from like 2014 on reddit

This forum might be a bit of a sampling bias too. A dude who is 45 is banging a 9/10 19 yo wouldn't be spending his time here.

 

[B80]

Yes, a lot of variables involved. If you have 2 kids between 40-44 for instance, then they won't finish high school until you are 58-62. If you want to help fund a child's college education, then college won't end until you are 62-66. Since the latter part of Gen X (1977-1981 births), it has been common for adults in their 20s to live at home with the parents for a period time. This practice got normalized with the first half of the Millennials (1982-1989 births) who couldn't get jobs as young adults during the 2008-2012 recession/recessionary period. Also, college has gotten a lot more expensive since the 1990s. By the time a child is fully and securely independent, it's possible to be around 70-72 years old.

Both white collar and blue collar men want to start scaling back their work responsibilities around 55-60. Blue collar men might not be physically capable of their line of work around 55-60. White collar men can often handle the physical demands of their work but they might start to feel their cognitive energy slip. In most cases, actual cognitive decline can be warded off until 65-70, which helps extend white collar careers. However, it is best to retire while you are still both mentally and physically healthy.

To me, this is why men between 35-40 who are childless have to give serious consideration to remaining childless for life. I think men should have their last kid by 37-38. A childless has the freedom to retire earlier than if he were spending ages 35-55 supporting kids. Retiring at 55-60 is totally reasonable for the childless male.

A childless 35-40 male can have sex with 20-26 year old women if he's fit and rich enough. If those relationships go no more than 3 years, those women won't be hearing their bio clocks tick and all will be well for that time. When a man gets into his 40s, he can still go for younger women who don't want kids or a fellow childless 40 something woman who has remained fit and possibly had some plastic surgery procedures to enhance her youthfulness.

Yeah agree. The thing is kids cost money at whatever your age. So although easier said than done at times, it highlights being financially prudent if you 'may' want kids at any age. Idea is that even though you approach retirement and may no longer receive income outside pension, you 'should' have enough saved anyway so level of financial support shouldn;t differ - in theory. You still have to support your child in the same way, so whether you support them via a monthly paycheck or your savings/investments - it amounts to same thing.

Your career/business path and therefore income/savings/retirement plan should in theory be the same regardless of when you decide to have kids.

Which kind of wheels back to my point in the 1st post, that not having kids early can sometimes help in that you have more time to grind in your 20's and make career progress. Although other side is that some people feel more drive to work harder/progress once they have a child that they love and are responsible for.

So your retirement plans shouldn;t differ regardless of what age you decide to be a dad as your life time earnings and wealth should in theory still be the same.

 

[TitusRamsies]

Again, sorry this isn't directed at you -- but this is beta bucks and exactly what I am getting at in OP -- Money, resources, all stuff she wants from a nice safe man, while she bangs some random fit fake confident dude always smiling and being 'cool' on the side. "Allegedly" men's SMV at 38 is the same as a girl at 23
IF THIS IS THE CASE. THE MAN OR YOU SHOULD BE ****ING A WHOLE RANGE OF YOUNG WOMEN 20 - 25 EASILY
IF YOU, WE, MEN ARE REQUIRED TO BE "WELL OFF, GOOD AT FILLING HER GAS TANK AND CHECKING HER TIRES, IN GOOD SHAPE WITH A GREAT POTENTIAL FUTURE AT INTERTROBE" =
YOU ARE A BETA PROVIDER, SAFE PROTECTION, MAN.
HENCE THE THREAD, LOL

Do you not realize most men don't have any of those things. Most men are overweight, have mediocre jobs, and lack confidence. Women want the best and will settle for beta bucks simply for comfort. If you are confident, in shape, and have a promising career, in no way are you obligated to fill her gas tank nor play the role of beta bucks, you can be a man who runs your ship and sets boundaries without kowtowing to females. Every man should aspire to be confident, in shape, and have a promising career, but the reality is very few do, to begin with, and if you do, you WILL have a full spectrum of women available to you to do as you please with them. The characteristics above give you the freedom to be the alpha, to be a man who women sexually desire. I feel like you have a tainted view on providing for women; the reality is no woman will associate with you if you are not providing something. Guys who have women pining for them and who are young are providing status in the form of looks, youth, attention, and good ****. Older suave men provide stability, good looks, attention, good ****, and if they desire, financial support( so, in reality, these men provide way more value and should be more discerning in the women they associate with). Your average beta bucks is seldomly a leader so has not aspired to be the best across most domains; they lack looks, often lack sexual ability, are not able to lead themselves,fully,and therefore are unable to provide the stability women crave BUT they usually have some source of income whether it's mediocre or large. If you aspire to be a walking wallet, look forward to being treated like one.

NOTE: Some men are born with the physical traits to attract women automatically, but don't be a fool as they put in effort to maintain their appearance. If you are not said male, it does not mean you are less than, you have from 18y.o of age(oft earlier) to gain self-mastery and improve.
CLIFFS: If you are not getting the women you want, you just are not good enough......yet. You will have to put in the effort to improve your weaknesses significantly.