Being a 30's Male + debunking 'SMV' chart

[hardboiled85]

and status tend to improve with time.

Beta bucks, beta buck, beta bucks - I hate that expression, but it's all I hear and read whenever the notion that a man is 'more valuable' the more he ages and attains 'status' -- yet you are somehow 'the prize', the only way that could be is because of his career he hates and slaves away at starts paying him more and his 'experience' allows him to move up the ladder and take on more responsibility and time debt. Therefore you may have more money, if that translates to a good SMV, count me the hell out..

 

[SW15]

Congratulations, you're like every other guy on the planet who has noticed that the prettiest girls are in that age group. They still look sweet and sexy and worth being desired. But if you want to relate to a female on a deeper level, there's something to be said for finding someone at least a little closer to your age group, someone with some similar life experiences.

This is true and disappointing. Yes, if you are a 35 year old male, you have a better chance of having an extended relationship with a 30-35 year old woman than an 18-24 year old.

If you're in your 30s and are still in shape, believe me, girls in their 20s are not out of reach. Statistically, I believe women tend to date guys about four years older than themselves. So yeah, it's not like they're looking for guys 10 years older exactly. But if you're a high value guy and an older guy compared to the younger guys they know, you can stand out. Girls in their early 20s are going to be naturally around other people their age, so of course the younger guys have a built in advantage there. Plus a lot of older guys listen to the feminist society, and they have been indoctrinated into thinking that an older guy is a creep if he's with a younger gal. A guy in his 30s is not old.

Depends on where you are in your 30s. When you're 30-33, 25-29 is not a stretch. Plenty of 32 year old men have 28-29 year old girlfriends/wives.

Let's say you're a 33-34 year old single guy. How are you going to get with 21-24 year olds? If you're on swipe apps, you might be able to swipe right on them. You'll get into their swipe queues and they can judge that way. Most women's swipe queues are externally long, even when they are 35. Imagine what a 22 year old's swipe queue is like. This probably isn't the best way to get a 21-24 year old's attention. When they are randomly swiping, they are filtering out guys who are 31+ in most cases.

Pre-pandemic, the bars were likely a better option for this, especially if you happened to find bars near a college campus.

You could day game but you'd likely do approaches on women 25+ when doing non-bar approaching. Non-bar approaching is often weaker on quantity than a good bar situation.

There's a combination of too many older guys listening to the feminist societal influences and also not being good enough to attract women 10 years younger in their 30s. If you're in your 30s and want someone 10 years younger, the threshold for achieving that is high. This is why most 30 something men are with pusssy beggars for women close to their own age.

Game and status tend to improve with time. Those are both traits that lead to raw sexual attraction just like looks does. That is why men do often peak later, objectively. Women are always dating 3-10 years up, there is a reason for that. Having said that, yes the idea that a 35 year old will do better than a comparable SMV at 25 is false, due to access and aging.

Most 35 year old men have an access problem when it comes to much younger women.

It's a bit unusual for a 35 year old man to do random on campus approaching. I did one approach session around that age one day on a college campus. Most 35 year old men are busy working at 1 or 2 PM Wednesday when women are walking between classes. Work at home options can help men do this as opposed to being confined to an office. When I did my college campus approach session one day in my mid-30s, I was between jobs. I wasn't unemployed, I had a built in break before starting a new job.

If I had wanted to get something out of campus approaching, I probably needed to do more than just one day. Most campus day approaching sessions don't resemble this...

Also, most men don't have the guts to do random approaching of strangers at non-bar venues. This is compounded for 30+ men who have graduated from school. These men aren't going to be on campuses hustling for prospects.

Beta bucks, beta buck, beta bucks - I hate that expression, but it's all I hear and read whenever the notion that a man is 'more valuable' the more he ages and attains 'status' -- yet you are somehow 'the prize', the only way that could be is because of his career he hates and slaves away at starts paying him more and his 'experience' allows him to move up the ladder and take on more responsibility and time debt. Therefore you may have more money, if that translates to a good SMV, count me the hell out..

Elevated SMV in one's 30s is often an achievement of career promotions, often in white collar work. Blue collar men can also experience wage growth with experience.

White collar men often dislike their work experiences more than blue collar men. Being an automotive or aircraft mechanic seems more fulfilling than working an accounting, sales, or marketing related role.

Having a higher income in your 30s might get you easier lays from 30 something childless women seeking providers. How exciting is it to be 38 and getting lays from childless 35 year old women?

I REALLY think the Reason AVAILABLE women from age 25-30 SMV declines so much is that the TOP ones are off the market due to LTR, marriage and kids. It is about Population, not individuals.
View attachment 7737

How up to date are these data points? Marriage rates in the Millennial generation have been lower.

A childless divorce barely affects a woman's SMV. How much different is a woman's SMV with a childless divorce vs. a bunch of 2-5 year non-marital relationships that have failed?

 

[zekko]

This is true and disappointing. Yes, if you are a 35 year old male, you have a better chance of having an extended relationship with a 30-35 year old woman than an 18-24 year old.

Let's say you hook up with a 22 year old. She's not going to stay 22 forever. If you don't care about extended relationships, you can just get a never ending series of 22 year old plates (theoretically). But if you actually want an extended relationship with someone, she isn't going to stay in her early 20s forever. I only mention this because guys here seem to think they should have 18-24 year old girls servicing them all their lives. I guess you could work the Leonardo DiCaprio system and dump them when they turn 25.

 

[DreamAgain]

Beta bucks, beta buck, beta bucks - I hate that expression, but it's all I hear and read whenever the notion that a man is 'more valuable' the more he ages and attains 'status' -- yet you are somehow 'the prize', the only way that could be is because of his career he hates and slaves away at starts paying him more and his 'experience' allows him to move up the ladder and take on more responsibility and time debt. Therefore you may have more money, if that translates to a good SMV, count me the hell out..

Yes exactly. All that it would do in theory is provide more security for your family, as well as your own personal enrichment and satisfaction with your career.

Your SMV only increases for temporary relations with gold digger and status seeker types, which is fine if you just want to pump and dump.

For genuine relationships with women you would view as the mother of your children, it just increases your suspicions they are with you for the $.

 

[SW15]

Let's say you hook up with a 22 year old. She's not going to stay 22 forever. If you don't care about extended relationships, you can just get a never ending series of 22 year old plates (theoretically). But if you actually want an extended relationship with someone, she isn't going to stay in her early 20s forever. I only mention this because guys here seem to think they should have 18-24 year old girls servicing them all their lives. I guess you could work the Leonardo DiCaprio system and dump them when they turn 25.

The never ending series of 18-24 year old plates gets extremely difficult to do starting in one's early 30s or 35 at the latest. It would be an extreme outlier to be a 45 or 50 year old man continually attracting early 20s women. You'd have to be rich to do it in some fashion once you hit the 35-50 age range.

I am fortunate that I have found women in their 30s/40s to be sexy. Of course, I would always prefer a younger woman. I only have sex with women younger than I am now (38). I will be able to get a solid erection with a fit, attractive woman in her 30s. If I were to get an attractive (at least cute) 20 year old naked today, I would be extremely turned on by her youthfulness.

As a man, if you're able to get a woman 10-15 years younger for a relationship once you hit age 35, that's going to be advantageous in longer term relationships. A 55 year old man with a 40 year old girlfriend is going to get more turned on by a naked 40 year old woman than a 42 year old man with a 40 year old.

 

[hardboiled85]

This is true and disappointing. Yes, if you are a 35 year old male, you have a better chance of having an extended relationship with a 30-35 year old woman than an 18-24 year old.

Elevated SMV in one's 30s is often an achievement of career promotions, often in white collar work. Blue collar men can also experience wage growth with experience.

White collar men often dislike their work experiences more than blue collar men. Being an automotive or aircraft mechanic seems more fulfilling than working an accounting, sales, or marketing related role.

Having a higher income in your 30s might get you easier lays from 30 something childless women seeking providers. How exciting is it to be 38 and getting lays from childless 35 year old women?

The actual untold truth and fact about men's SMV - seems like you are just perhaps noticed more 30+ if your ATM receipt has a bigger $ sign than her 25 year old suitor. Still, you won't be invited to the parties etc,

 

[hardboiled85]

Let's say you hook up with a 22 year old. She's not going to stay 22 forever. If you don't care about extended relationships, you can just get a never ending series of 22 year old plates (theoretically). But if you actually want an extended relationship with someone, she isn't going to stay in her early 20s forever. I only mention this because guys here seem to think they should have 18-24 year old girls servicing them all their lives. I guess you could work the Leonardo DiCaprio system and dump them when they turn 25.

I respect your views + experience, but in reality it seems that the only fundamental reason a girl 10 years younger than you will choose you over one of her male peers, her age group + generation is MONEY/STATUS/EARNING POTENTIAL ...that or the few random chicks with daddy issues as I will acknowledge being more mature/life experienced/'with the program' can attract younger women. But at a probable ratio of 1 in 20.

 

[zekko]

I respect your views + experience, but in reality it seems that the only fundamental reason a girl 10 years younger than you will choose you over one of her male peers, her age group + generation is MONEY/STATUS/EARNING POTENTIAL ...that or the few random chicks with daddy issues as I will acknowledge being more mature/life experienced/'with the program' can attract younger women.

Guys here are very down on money/status, beta bucks, and all that. I don't see it that way. If a guy has made a success out of himself, if he had the raw skill and determination to make himself a successful, why shouldn't that be attractive? Guys here want to be appreciated because of their looks. But you're given your looks (you can maximize them). But if you make yourself a success, that's something you've earned. Such things deserve respect, and if a woman respects you, that's a good thing. If a girl is gold digging, to me that's easily transparent.

I was fortunate when I was younger because firsthand I got to see a very attractive young woman who had a crush on a much older man. So I knew that attraction was possible, I saw it demonstrated.

And I'll just leave this here:

 

[DonJuanjr]

Guys here are very down on money/status, beta bucks, and all that. I don't see it that way. If a guy has made a success out of himself, if he had the raw skill and determination to make himself a successful, why shouldn't that be attractive? Guys here want to be appreciated because of their looks. But you're given your looks (you can maximize them). But if you make yourself a success, that's something you've earned. Such things deserve respect, and if a woman respects you, that's a good thing. If a girl is gold digging, to me that's easily transparent.

I'd rather have a woman have a raw lustful desire for me than to be attracted toward me for how I can improve her lifestyle with my money.

 

[Jack22]

Guys here are very down on money/status, beta bucks, and all that. I don't see it that way. If a guy has made a success out of himself, if he had the raw skill and determination to make himself a successful, why shouldn't that be attractive? Guys here want to be appreciated because of their looks. But you're given your looks (you can maximize them).
I was fortunate when I was younger because firsthand I got to see a very attractive young woman who had a crush on a much older man.

I know we shouldn't take every word Rollo says as gospel, but I remember him saying that there's a difference between attraction and desire. A girl can be attracted to you, but not desire you.

 

[SW15]

The actual untold truth and fact about men's SMV - seems like you are just perhaps noticed more 30+ if your ATM receipt has a bigger $ sign than her 25 year old suitor. Still, you won't be invited to the parties etc,

This is accurate.

 

[zekko]

I'd rather have a woman have a raw lustful desire for me than to be attracted toward me for how I can improve her lifestyle with my money.

Not the point. You are high value because you are a man who has proven to be capable of handling his life.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

This is true and disappointing. Yes, if you are a 35 year old male, you have a better chance of having an extended relationship with a 30-35 year old woman than an 18-24 year old.



Depends on where you are in your 30s. When you're 30-33, 25-29 is not a stretch. Plenty of 32 year old men have 28-29 year old girlfriends/wives.

Let's say you're a 33-34 year old single guy. How are you going to get with 21-24 year olds? If you're on swipe apps, you might be able to swipe right on them. You'll get into their swipe queues and they can judge that way. Most women's swipe queues are externally long, even when they are 35. Imagine what a 22 year old's swipe queue is like. This probably isn't the best way to get a 21-24 year old's attention. When they are randomly swiping, they are filtering out guys who are 31+ in most cases.

Pre-pandemic, the bars were likely a better option for this, especially if you happened to find bars near a college campus.

You could day game but you'd likely do approaches on women 25+ when doing non-bar approaching. Non-bar approaching is often weaker on quantity than a good bar situation.

There's a combination of too many older guys listening to the feminist societal influences and also not being good enough to attract women 10 years younger in their 30s. If you're in your 30s and want someone 10 years younger, the threshold for achieving that is high. This is why most 30 something men are with pusssy beggars for women close to their own age.



Most 35 year old men have an access problem when it comes to much younger women.

It's a bit unusual for a 35 year old man to do random on campus approaching. I did one approach session around that age one day on a college campus. Most 35 year old men are busy working at 1 or 2 PM Wednesday when women are walking between classes. Work at home options can help men do this as opposed to being confined to an office. When I did my college campus approach session one day in my mid-30s, I was between jobs. I wasn't unemployed, I had a built in break before starting a new job.

If I had wanted to get something out of campus approaching, I probably needed to do more than just one day. Most campus day approaching sessions don't resemble this...

Also, most men don't have the guts to do random approaching of strangers at non-bar venues. This is compounded for 30+ men who have graduated from school. These men aren't going to be on campuses hustling for prospects.



Elevated SMV in one's 30s is often an achievement of career promotions, often in white collar work. Blue collar men can also experience wage growth with experience.

White collar men often dislike their work experiences more than blue collar men. Being an automotive or aircraft mechanic seems more fulfilling than working an accounting, sales, or marketing related role.

Having a higher income in your 30s might get you easier lays from 30 something childless women seeking providers. How exciting is it to be 38 and getting lays from childless 35 year old women?



How up to date are these data points? Marriage rates in the Millennial generation have been lower.

A childless divorce barely affects a woman's SMV. How much different is a woman's SMV with a childless divorce vs. a bunch of 2-5 year non-marital relationships that have failed?

You nailed. Typical lulz!

For me, it's purely sex appeal. Approaching irl I see as game. At this point, we all have used an app or ig. I don't consider it game.

You nailed everything which is in direct contrast of RP. I agree with you. While RP promotes dating younger, just about nobody does that in actuality over on the YouTubes or approaching for that matter. It takes a lot of work. Most guys cannot stomach taking the Ls. It's apparent that a significant amount of mental health seems to plague the space or are driven to madness in pickup whereas the amount of hissy fits in rp and rants on jack nobody give a ****kkk about is weak.

With clubs closed, app algorithms, #metoo, and the real pandemic, that being the abundance of soy boys/cucks/low T, few get that success. The competition is SO LOW. MY mate is foreign, trad, and married. Family. White picket fence. He was pointing out how awkward Gen Z is.

Relating to women a decade + is not exactly a cake walk. There's a ton of pc and other stuff that don't mesh well. Also, modern women are taught to be masculine, combative, and play the victim after provocateur antics. It's simpler if short lived and rnturely sexual.

Here me out. 30+ is ran through. Nowhere near as fit. Younger 20 something is insufferable but both scenarios are going to erode. I'm always going mad younger for however long as I can.

Chatted up a twenty something the other day. Girl mid twenties was starting to let it slip. Seeing girls even as young as 23 pudgy or entirely bulking season. I'm always preferring tighter and younger but D won't suck itself. Mid 20s has been my wheel house as of recent lock down nonsense. No club or bar in years.

College girls aren't exactly on my runs or workouts which aren't st the gym with this nonsense. I don't meet women into fasting, minimalism, training etc. If they do train it's more about ig and fishing for attention. Metric atm is young, dtf, cute, and compliant. Or next lulz!

Edit: would love to use receipts for my avi.

Woke up to a text from a college girl that read, "my lady parts are sore." Lulz! I died.

Cute 6/10... early 20 something. She caught hell!

 

[SW15]

You nailed everything which is in direct contrast of RP. I agree with you. While RP promotes dating younger, just about nobody does that in actuality over on the YouTubes or approaching for that matter. It takes a lot of work. Most guys cannot stomach taking the Ls. It's apparent that a significant amount of mental health seems to plague the space or are driven to madness in pickup whereas the amount of hissy fits in rp and rants on jack nobody give a ****kkk about is weak.

Most men will take a lot of Ls in approaching strangers. Infields on YouTube are highly staged. Guys who look like suave approachers like ThatWasEpic or Daily Dropout edit the videos a lot. Also, ThatWasEpic is more of a prankster than an actual seducer. Though some of his approach tactics would work in the real world, it would take a lot of effort to get similar results.

There will be mental and emotional anguish and trauma from dating in the modern environment if you use swipe apps to arrange dates or do approaching of strangers. Swipe apps the worst because you experience the worst of female behavior if using swipe apps. Women using swipe apps have no regard for the men that they interact with on the apps. It is a frictionless environment. A woman's social circle is never informed of her bad behavior towards men on the apps. Additionally, in areas with population of a few hundred thousand or more, the odds that a woman will ever see a man from a swipe app date randomly again if she ghosts/flakes around the city are so low that she doesn't care if she's rude.

He was pointing out how awkward Gen Z is.

If Gen Z is awkward, the trends started with Millennials. I was born near the beginning of the Millennial generation. When I was a freshman in college in the 2001-02 school year, I was already seeing signs of antisocial behavior. Lots of people were using AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) to communicate instead of real world interactions or personal phone calls. AIM was the predecessor to texting. Also, the iPod was released in October 2001 and some of the hot girls at the gym were starting to wear earbuds in the gym, discouraging approaching. This trend grew throughout the 2000s and into the early 2010s. Since the early 2010s, most women have headphones/earbuds in while at the gym, making approaching on the general gym floor more difficult. Devices like the iPod/MP3 players and iPhone/smartphone make women more self-involved. Facebook launched in 2004 and it was heavily adopted among college men with mediocre to subpar social skills as a way to get vagina and for college women to narcissist. Instagram in the early 2010s took it to the next level.

Relating to women a decade + is not exactly a cake walk. There's a ton of pc and other stuff that don't mesh well. Also, modern women are taught to be masculine, combative, and play the victim after provocateur antics. It's simpler if short lived and rnturely sexual.

If you're a man in your 30s today, you are a Millennial. 15-20 years ago, for the older Millennials, the women were taught a lot of the same things. There was sexual assault culture on college campuses in the early to mid 2000s when the older Millennials like myself were in college.

Here me out. 30+ is ran through. Nowhere near as fit. Younger 20 something is insufferable but both scenarios are going to erode. I'm always going mad younger for however long as I can.

30+ is ran through. Both men and women in their 30s actively seeking new partners come to the table with a lot of past trauma. The cocck carousel has a way of hurting women more than promiscuity hurts men. Men in their 30s have more trauma associated with taking L's on approaching and using swipe apps. The repeated cycle of rejection has a way of hurting men. A lot of rejected men turn to porn to deal with the rejection, imagining themselves as the stud fuccking the hottie. Best to do no fap and no porn in the order to keep the seduction mind clear.

Woke up to a text from a college girl that read, "my lady parts are sore." Lulz! I died.

Nice! Being good at sex is an element of game that isn't talked about enough on this forum. Being good at sex is one of the fastest ways to get frame and to get closer to the abundance mindset.

I always figure if she's a good deal younger and someone I want to date long term, at least she'll always be younger. If when I'm 60 my girl is in her early 40s, that's not bad.

60 year old men prefer sex with a 42 year old woman as compared to a 57 year old woman. I have been turned on by women in the 30s/40s. I've seen few examples of 50+ year old women that turn me on. There are some sexy older celeb women but most men aren't running into 50+ year old women who induce erections. Even an attractive 52 year old woman at a racquet/country club can't compare to a 22 or even 32 year old.

 

[B80]

Most men will take a lot of Ls in approaching strangers. Infields on YouTube are highly staged. Guys who look like suave approachers like ThatWasEpic or Daily Dropout edit the videos a lot. Also, ThatWasEpic is more of a prankster than an actual seducer. Though some of his approach tactics would work in the real world, it would take a lot of effort to get similar results.

There will be mental and emotional anguish and trauma from dating in the modern environment if you use swipe apps to arrange dates or do approaching of strangers. Swipe apps the worst because you experience the worst of female behavior if using swipe apps. Women using swipe apps have no regard for the men that they interact with on the apps. It is a frictionless environment. A woman's social circle is never informed of her bad behavior towards men on the apps. Additionally, in areas with population of a few hundred thousand or more, the odds that a woman will ever see a man from a swipe app date randomly again if she ghosts/flakes around the city are so low that she doesn't care if she's rude.



If Gen Z is awkward, the trends started with Millennials. I was born near the beginning of the Millennial generation. When I was a freshman in college in the 2001-02 school year, I was already seeing signs of antisocial behavior. Lots of people were using AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) to communicate instead of real world interactions or personal phone calls. AIM was the predecessor to texting. Also, the iPod was released in October 2001 and some of the hot girls at the gym were starting to wear earbuds in the gym, discouraging approaching. This trend grew throughout the 2000s and into the early 2010s. Since the early 2010s, most women have headphones/earbuds in while at the gym, making approaching on the general gym floor more difficult. Devices like the iPod/MP3 players and iPhone/smartphone make women more self-involved. Facebook launched in 2004 and it was heavily adopted among college men with mediocre to subpar social skills as a way to get vagina and for college women to narcissist. Instagram in the early 2010s took it to the next level.



If you're a man in your 30s today, you are a Millennial. 15-20 years ago, for the older Millennials, the women were taught a lot of the same things. There was sexual assault culture on college campuses in the early to mid 2000s when the older Millennials like myself were in college.



30+ is ran through. Both men and women in their 30s actively seeking new partners come to the table with a lot of past trauma. The cocck carousel has a way of hurting women more than promiscuity hurts men. Men in their 30s have more trauma associated with taking L's on approaching and using swipe apps. The repeated cycle of rejection has a way of hurting men. A lot of rejected men turn to porn to deal with the rejection, imagining themselves as the stud fuccking the hottie. Best to do no fap and no porn in the order to keep the seduction mind clear.



Nice! Being good at sex is an element of game that isn't talked about enough on this forum. Being good at sex is one of the fastest ways to get frame and to get closer to the abundance mindset.



60 year old men prefer sex with a 42 year old woman as compared to a 57 year old woman. I have been turned on by women in the 30s/40s. I've seen few examples of 50+ year old women that turn me on. There are some sexy older celeb women but most men aren't running into 50+ year old women who induce erections. Even an attractive 52 year old woman at a racquet/country club can't compare to a 22 or even 32 year old.

good post. from my own experience, friends/aquintances parents tend to be what I assume is within 5 year gap of each other. although bizarelly also know of a few men with wives 10 years+ older.

where the people whose wives are 10 years + younger, the dad was extremely high up in corporations or own/owned their own business, live in very nice/expensive houses. Even then, the wen involved are average at best. 1 has a boss eye lol.

I guess on here theres a many that are extremely adept with women and so stand a better chance of pulling off a year 10+ gap compared to public without necessarily being wealthy. obviously they'll be men who are good with women who don;t post on here that could achieve the same, but I imagine its a tiny % of the overall population.

If a woman is attractive and doesn;t have some kind of underlying issues, the likelyhood is they will still settle down with someone closer to their age who is also doing well financially. you'd have to be something really special to attract a relatively stable/'normal' woman and keep her long term if you are that much older, particularly in the current climate. so you;d have to be top tier or near top tier in some of the typical values - looks, charisma, status etc as well as doing well financially.

I can;t see a stable woman who is attractive electing for a much older man otherwise. Plus add in social pressure/expectations etc. Odds are firmly against you, but no doubt some pull it off.

 

[hardboiled85]

where the people whose wives are 10 years + younger, the dad was extremely high up in corporations or own/owned their own business, live in very nice/expensive houses.

This is just beta males/being being beta providers -- Working hard 60hrs per week all to 'impress her' 'give her a good life'. There are no 'alpha qualities' in that sort of existance, and as soon as the chips are down she will be legs up taking it from someone who hauls the beta providers trash.

 

[B80]

This is just beta males/being being beta providers -- Working hard 60hrs per week all to 'impress her' 'give her a good life'. There are no 'alpha qualities' in that sort of existance, and as soon as the chips are down she will be legs up taking it from someone who hauls the beta providers trash.

Exactly. I think its a tiny % of men that can pull it off outside of that kind of arrangement, even then you'd have to wonder about the quality of the woman involved. I know women over 30 get a rough ride on here (sometimes over 25 lol), but I think many are cloud cuckoo land if they think they can attract/game good quality women under 30 to stay in a long term relationship once they're over 40.

Plenty of damaged women of course with backage over 30, but I'd rather have someone stableish and attractive over 30, closer to my age than deal with someone with issues and the work in would take to maintain a relationship with someone that much younger. Odds of it working are minimal, particularly if not extremely wealthy.

Assuming talking about 7+ lookswise 20 odd year old women, why would they settle for a much older man? They;d have plenty of options closer to their age.

 

[SW15]

from my own experience, friends/aquintances parents tend to be what I assume is within 5 year gap of each other. although bizarelly also know of a few men with wives 10 years+ older.

I'm not sure how old you are @B80 . Looking at your friends/acquaintances parents is a poor representation of the current mating environment in a lot of cases. Many of those relationships of men 2-5 years older than the woman formed in a different era, prior to 1990. I'm 38. I don't care about how my 1980s born friends/acquaintances and their parents who got together in the 1970s/1980s. It has zero relevance to today. The only thing interesting from couples formed in the 1970s-1990s is how they've managed not to divorce if they are still together. What you'll learn from this in most cases is that the relationship was mediocre to subpar for at least 10-15 years of a 25+ year long relationship. Is that a good way to go through life?

Also, the guys with wives much older are so unimpressive.

where the people whose wives are 10 years + younger, the dad was extremely high up in corporations or own/owned their own business, live in very nice/expensive houses. Even then, the women involved are average at best.

This is just beta males/being being beta providers -- Working hard 60hrs per week all to 'impress her' 'give her a good life'. There are no 'alpha qualities' in that sort of existance, and as soon as the chips are down she will be legs up taking it from someone who hauls the beta providers trash.

Agree that this is beta stuff. Most men in their 30s today, even mid-level or upper level managers in medium to large companies, are pusssy beggars for women close to their age.

What @B80 is citing is classic beta male game, which worked better in the 1970s-1980s than post 2000. Bill Gates was the most extreme of this, using his Microsoft CEO status to get a mediocre to subpar looking Duke University MBA gal.

I guess on here theres a many that are extremely adept with women and so stand a better chance of pulling off a year 10+ gap compared to public without necessarily being wealthy. obviously they'll be men who are good with women who don;t post on here that could achieve the same, but I imagine its a tiny % of the overall population.

If a woman is attractive and doesn;t have some kind of underlying issues, the likelyhood is they will still settle down with someone closer to their age who is also doing well financially. you'd have to be something really special to attract a relatively stable/'normal' woman and keep her long term if you are that much older, particularly in the current climate. so you;d have to be top tier or near top tier in some of the typical values - looks, charisma, status etc as well as doing well financially.

I can;t see a stable woman who is attractive electing for a much older man otherwise. Plus add in social pressure/expectations etc. Odds are firmly against you, but no doubt some pull it off.

You need money to pull off a 10+ year age difference in most cases.

A 35-40 year mid level to upper level executive guy is often getting with a similarly aged woman through social circles and often at places like racquet/country clubs or yacht clubs. It's not odd for a 30 something guy to be playing tennis and he meets an in shape older woman who is married or divorced. This 50-55 year old woman has a daughter/niece/co-worker, or has a friend with a daughter/niece. The two are introduced that way.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Most men will take a lot of Ls in approaching strangers. Infields on YouTube are highly staged. Guys who look like suave approachers like ThatWasEpic or Daily Dropout edit the videos a lot. Also, ThatWasEpic is more of a prankster than an actual seducer. Though some of his approach tactics would work in the real world, it would take a lot of effort to get similar results.

He's tall. He has personality and countless reps. It's more infield than most gurus and guys can conceive of. For perspective, I bet he's done more approaches in a day than most so called YouTube gurus. The improv and countless reps would put to shame many shilling.

There will be mental and emotional anguish and trauma from dating in the modern environment if you use swipe apps to arrange dates or do approaching of strangers. Swipe apps the worst because you experience the worst of female behavior if using swipe apps. Women using swipe apps have no regard for the men that they interact with on the apps. It is a frictionless environment. A woman's social circle is never informed of her bad behavior towards men on the apps. Additionally, in areas with population of a few hundred thousand or more, the odds that a woman will ever see a man from a swipe app date randomly again if she ghosts/flakes around the city are so low that she doesn't care if she's rude.

You nailed it. It amplifies the worst female behavior. Again most guys don't approach. Hell most gurus don't lulz!

If Gen Z is awkward, the trends started with Millennials. I was born near the beginning of the Millennial generation. When I was a freshman in college in the 2001-02 school year, I was already seeing signs of antisocial behavior. Lots of people were using AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) to communicate instead of real world interactions or personal phone calls. AIM was the predecessor to texting. Also, the iPod was released in October 2001 and some of the hot girls at the gym were starting to wear earbuds in the gym, discouraging approaching. This trend grew throughout the 2000s and into the early 2010s. Since the early 2010s, most women have headphones/earbuds in while at the gym, making approaching on the general gym floor more difficult. Devices like the iPod/MP3 players and iPhone/smartphone make women more self-involved. Facebook launched in 2004 and it was heavily adopted among college men with mediocre to subpar social skills as a way to get vagina and for college women to narcissist. Instagram in the early 2010s took it to the next level.

probably. You seem to have the time line down. Right after 2010, I noticed a decline in social equity and the culture/gender war has only gone off the rails. Initially, I thought western women were mostly insane. After the shenanigans the past few years, it's far more sinister and evil. The enemy is any obstacle between you and individual sovereignty. Feminism and modern women are just a symptom of a much larger problem. Case and point, your typical encounter on a app is "common." Women are common today. Same recycled rubbish bio, politics, and sloth. The only solution is catch and release.

If you're a man in your 30s today, you are a Millennial. 15-20 years ago, for the older Millennials, the women were taught a lot of the same things. There was sexual assault culture on college campuses in the early to mid 2000s when the older Millennials like myself were in college.

Life will end up rubbish. Enjoy the decline. Pillage what you can.

I think of the matrix - the actual movie not the turd punch bowl of today. The scene walking down the street and the girl in the red dress. I'm not captain planet. You or I won't change the culture. It's enough to get ours and live actually good life. Fortunately for you, your environment permits sovereignty in a way most of the world no longer does. My American pals are cynical of where things are going but I assure you that it could be much worse elsewhere.

In the end, life trolls women harder than you or I never could. Waste life chasing a liberal arts degree. Vote large government and shackle oneself to corporate world. Don't need a man and piss away fertility.

I got my popcorn out and I'm enjoy the show as I plot the great exodus.

30+ is ran through. Both men and women in their 30s actively seeking new partners come to the table with a lot of past trauma. The cocck carousel has a way of hurting women more than promiscuity hurts men. Men in their 30s have more trauma associated with taking L's on approaching and using swipe apps. The repeated cycle of rejection has a way of hurting men. A lot of rejected men turn to porn to deal with the rejection, imagining themselves as the stud fuccking the hottie. Best to do no fap and no porn in the order to keep the seduction mind clear.

I couldn't agree more with you. There's a point where you are disassociating rejection since the abundance of experience has severed any part where that once had meaning. It simply loses meaning. Hence adoption of pull or #next! Blow me or blow me out.

I agree with you on porn. It's mind rot. Not sure about you but if not for pickup I'd have been divorce raped by now. You cannot go through the fire and not get burned. When you get through to the other side, who and what you become is something else. IMHO the red pill rage is that middle stage of not going anywhere beyond. Spinning wheels.

I heard it was Carl Jung that spoke to the subject. Suggested in order to come full circle in life, a man needs to go back and reclaim what he lost as a child. Clarey put order something similar regarding searching for meaning.

Nice! Being good at sex is an element of game that isn't talked about enough on this forum. Being good at sex is one of the fastest ways to get frame and to get closer to the abundance mindset.

It was more to the notion of what Rsd tyler said on seeing humor in everything (pickup, rejection, pulling etc). In previous eras we would be married. Likely a wife and many kids. It's in our nature to fight. There's got to be something worth fighting for. Playing house nor that once upon a time notion died long ago at least in the west. It's not coming back. More accurately modern women don't qualify but fellas keep trying to put a round peg in a square hole.

60 year old men prefer sex with a 42 year old woman as compared to a 57 year old woman. I have been turned on by women in the 30s/40s. I've seen few examples of 50+ year old women that turn me on. There are some sexy older celeb women but most men aren't running into 50+ year old women who induce erections. Even an attractive 52 year old woman at a racquet/country club can't compare to a 22 or even 32 year old.

Which is why I think fellas should spend time with hotter and younger. Less trauma though far more idiocy.

I remember getting told she was worried I was not going to call her. This was in the before times more than the present. Younger and less bodied girls still behave this way. There's a level of awkwardness to their in experience that the street doesn't have. That part was severed a long time ago. Classic modern women.

At this stage of my life, I'm chasing some thing else as we discussed. With game, I like more challenging logistics and younger vs a goal on an empty net. New way forward. More sniper. Less banging the guns 7 nights an week like when I was a kid. Level up like @darksprezzatura which is no cake walk. Energy is finite. I can't fathom this play at 40 or 50. The great exodus is calling a lot of us.

 

[SW15]

He's tall. He has personality and countless reps. It's more infield than most gurus and guys can conceive of. For perspective, I bet he's done more approaches in a day than most so called YouTube gurus. The improv and countless reps would put to shame many shilling.

So that everyone understands who we are talking about, ThatWasEpic is some entertaining channel on YouTube. He's supposedly doing approaches more for fun than actual pickup. This guy, who is named Juan, is a solid approacher. He's definitely over 6'0", which is rare for a Hispanic guy.

Notice his first approach with Bianca the redhead there. At :26 with the hair flip, you know she was totally down. At :29, her smile and body language are great.

Again most guys don't approach. Hell most gurus don't lulz!

Most guys don't approach. Most guys can't do random, non-bar approaches. I do it, you do it, and many of the guys on this forum do it. @Zimbabwe has been doing it more.

Right after 2010, I noticed a decline in social equity and the culture/gender war has only gone off the rails. Initially, I thought western women were mostly insane. After the shenanigans the past few years, it's far more sinister and evil. The enemy is any obstacle between you and individual sovereignty. Feminism and modern women are just a symptom of a much larger problem. Case and point, your typical encounter on a app is "common." Women are common today. Same recycled rubbish bio, politics, and sloth. The only solution is catch and release.

Catch and release as you say it is one valid solution. Another valid solution is longer term relationships with no marriage and babies. Realize that most LTRs run their course and get out before it goes too bad. That is probably a slightly slower version of catch and release, but still catch and release.

Life will end up rubbish. Enjoy the decline. Pillage what you can.

In the end, life trolls women harder than you or I never could. Waste life chasing a liberal arts degree. Vote large government and shackle oneself to corporate world. Don't need a man and piss away fertility.

I got my popcorn out and I'm enjoy the show as I plot the great exodus.

Enjoy the decline and pillage what you can are the ways to live. It is always funny to observe life trolling women.

I couldn't agree more with you. There's a point where you are disassociating rejection since the abundance of experience has severed any part where that once had meaning. It simply loses meaning. Hence adoption of pull or #next! Blow me or blow me out.

I agree with you on porn. It's mind rot. Not sure about you but if not for pickup I'd have been divorce raped by now. You cannot go through the fire and not get burned. When you get through to the other side, who and what you become is something else. IMHO the red pill rage is that middle stage of not going anywhere beyond. Spinning wheels.

I heard it was Carl Jung that spoke to the subject. Suggested in order to come full circle in life, a man needs to go back and reclaim what he lost as a child. Clarey put order something similar regarding searching for meaning.

The modern mating environment is like walking through a fire. You're going to get burned at some point. I've endured massive trauma as a result of doing what I have done for the last 22 years. But I've managed the downside well. No kids, no divorce rape.

Porn is bad. We were not meant to wank it out to images/videos of hot broads getting their pusssies pounded by another dude. That's soft cucking. We must be the ones doing the seducing and pounding vag. Approaching is the first step in a 1,000 mile journey towards pounding vag.

It was more to the notion of what Rsd tyler said on seeing humor in everything (pickup, rejection, pulling etc). In previous eras we would be married. Likely a wife and many kids. It's in our nature to fight. There's got to be something worth fighting for. Playing house nor that once upon a time notion died long ago at least in the west. It's not coming back. More accurately modern women don't qualify but fellas keep trying to put a round peg in a square hole.

Too many men today play house. Bad idea. It is a civilization in decline when playing house with a woman is a bad idea. You're more likely to break up with the woman who gives birth to your child than still be with her by the time the first kid turns 18.

Which is why I think fellas should spend time with hotter and younger. Less trauma though far more idiocy.

I remember getting told she was worried I was not going to call her. This was in the before times more than the present. Younger and less bodied girls still behave this way. There's a level of awkwardness to their in experience that the street doesn't have. That part was severed a long time ago. Classic modern women.

At this stage of my life, I'm chasing some thing else as we discussed. With game, I like more challenging logistics and younger vs a goal on an empty net. New way forward. More sniper. Less banging the guns 7 nights an week like when I was a kid. Level up like @darksprezzatura which is no cake walk. Energy is finite. I can't fathom this play at 40 or 50. The great exodus is calling a lot of us.

I learned to conserve energy with game a long time ago. I realized in my 20s that I'd be in the whole pickup/seduction/non-marital relationships for a long time. That's how I learned to be a non-bar approacher. When I was 18-25, my game was off campus college parties in apartments and bars/nightclubs. I did almost no day game. I reinvented myself in my late 20s as a day game specialist. Being a day game specialist is more sustainable.