Are children worth it? Do you regret having kids??

[Murk]

This is a great thread, lots of thoughtful comments from men on both perspectives.

I have a fairly unique situation, not even sure it counts - I've been a sperm donor. Two kids out there, no obligations or contact on my end. I've just always had this urge to reproduce, and it wasn't happening in any relationships I had in my 20s. So as a man I adapted to the other extreme of playboy + sperm donor. Kind of satisfies all my needs, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit something was missing in my life. Part of me still yearns for that more traditional and stable setup, but the odds of that happening in the West are very low. Best case scenario is maybe getting a modest and young woman, and then moving us to a more patriarchal environment.

That's wild. I understand the need to sow your oats but you have no idea who or what your offspring are. The missing part you speak of is probably being present in raising and knowing your offspring.

 

[Borknagar]

Myself I have nothing against children or those who have them, but I'm rarely around them so there isn't a massive urge. Talking to some of my employees and others at work who are younger in their early 20s they have parents my age so I do wished I had a son or daughter but was already mostly grown up, that would be cool. Like a 23 year old or something, especially if there was a good relationship. That would be awesome, however what wouldn't be awesome is to be a 43 year old divorced guy who lost half his **** and now has to pay child support, as well as alimony(which there is no excuse for).

 

[IKO69]

They have brought an immense joy to pretty much everyone I know who is a parent.

I don't have any kids myself and it is doubtful I will at this point, but I do think it is a good thing, yes.

 

[SOG_85]

To the kids you already have, try to protect them if you can. But it must be next to impossible when you have no legal authority over them.

Very well said. I have one child, and one of the hardest and most sobering things I've learned is that you can't really protect your child from the games women and the legal system play.

 

[nismo-4]

I'd rather be a new millionaire than a new father.

Having a child is a rather high expense, often a liability. Never heard too many cases of a child being an asset to a man.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'd rather be a new millionaire than a new father.

Having a child is a rather high expense, often a liability. Never heard too many cases of a child being an asset to a man.

Can’t take the millions with you when you die. I feel sorry for your outlook on life.

 

[SW15]

I graduated from an MBA program in the 2007-08 school year. Think back to 2008. Imagine 2008 and trying to look for a new job. It was BAD. Graduating into the late 2000s/early 2010s recession/recessionary conditions set my career back a long way. I had to take some steep discounts in order to get employed. While I had an MBA, my salaries in the early years after getting an MBA were well below the expected levels for MBAs. Sorting out that mess took most of the 2010s.

I managed to get vagina and some extended relationships with vagina. During the 2010s, I wasn't in a place in my career or in certain relationships to have children. Those were probably the best years for me to have a kid if I were going to have one.

very similar experience myself

What happened with you @LARaiders85? I think you are a lawyer. Law schools have been pumping more graduates than there has been demand for legal jobs for at least 2 decades.

 

[Bokanovsky]

In an ideal world, of course you want to have children. This is especially true if your are a productive, successful person. You want to pass on the fruits of your success to somebody else. Otherwise, much of what you accomplish in this life is a waste. The problem is that the modern "liberal" society has created such enormous, artificial downsides to having kids (both financial and non-financial). It's almost like the system is intentionally designed to discourage normal, productive people from reproducing...

 

[Bokanovsky]

There is also something very personally rewarding being able to raise a child and make mold them into a strong person of integrity.

At the same time, there is nothing more devastating than having your child taken away from you, with the child's mother poisoning their mind and making the kid believe that you are a monster, while manipulating the court system to cut you out of the kid's life. I am not speaking from personal experience but I've witnessed this happen to others and its horrifying. It truly opens your eyes as to how evil some women can be. And what's even scarier is that there are no legal safeguards to provide deterrence. When men commit evil acts, like murder and rape, they face harsh legal consequences. When women commit evil acts, like destroying the lives of children and fathers through lies and deceit, there is no punishment.

 

[Barrister]

At the same time, there is nothing more devastating than having your child taken away from you, with the child's mother poisoning their mind and making the kid believe that you are a monster, while manipulating the court system to cut you out of the kid's life. I am not speaking from personal experience but I've witnessed this happen to others and its horrifying. It truly opens your eyes as to how evil some women can be. And what's even scarier is that there are no legal safeguards to provide deterrence. When men commit evil acts, like murder and rape, they face harsh legal consequences. When women commit evil acts, like destroying the lives of children and fathers through lies and deceit, there is no punishment.

Nothing untrue about what you said. And I too see it happen very often. Personally, I had to fight for joint custody of my own daughter against my ex-wife. Luckily, the judge was very sympathetic towards me and saw through my ex's obvious ploy to try to get primary custody for the sole sake of punishing me both personally and financially. I can definitively say it was a very stressful time and had it not come down in my favor (not sure how it wouldn't have - but that aside) I would have been devastated.

The court system is not a perfect one. And I would say the family court system is probably the most inefficient and imperfect of any of them because there are so few rules associated with it. The judge makes all the difference - and with a substantial increase in female judges - many of whom have an axe to grind against males in general - it is no wonder that this has gotten as bad as it has. Luckily, many states are considering automatic joint custody legislation (absent a valid basis for it not to be that way).

 

[EyeBRollin]

At the same time, there is nothing more devastating than having your child taken away from you, with the child's mother poisoning their mind and making the kid believe that you are a monster, while manipulating the court system to cut you out of the kid's life.

Jesus you guys are dark.

There are enough positives with having children that makes people still have them. Fathers have rights too.

My pops mentored a young black gentlemen, who was a good man, married to an attractive white woman. They eventually divorced after having three children. The man got full custody of all three children, has since remarried, is now working in upper management and looks happier than ever. Idk the details but he seems to have made it out just fine.

 

[Bokanovsky]

The court system is not a perfect one. And I would say the family court system is probably the most inefficient and imperfect of any of them because there are so few rules associated with it. The judge makes all the difference - and with a substantial increase in female judges - many of whom have an axe to grind against males in general - it is no wonder that this has gotten as bad as it has. Luckily, many states are considering automatic joint custody legislation (absent a valid basis for it not to be that way).

It's not just the lack of rules that's the problem. The system is almost designed for abuse. Here's a scenario that I see happening with alarming regularity. Husband and wife break up. Wife calls the cops and claims she has been assaulted. Husband is automatically arrested and charged. Eventually, the charges will probably be dismissed for lack of a reusable prospect of conviction (it typically takes about a year for this to happen). However, the father is not allowed to see his kids in the meanwhile. Mom automatically gets interim custody. And by the time the charges are withdrawn, the damage is already done. All of a sudden, the kids no longer "wish" to see their dad (after months of brainwashing by mom), and the father is tainted by the abuse allegations in the matrimonial proceeding, even though he is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. In the end, the father is lucky be able to start seeing his kids for a couple of hours a week in a supervised setting.

And I have NEVER heard of a woman being held criminally responsible for fabricating abuse allegation. This type of behaviour is rampant nowadays, and there is no deterrence whatsoever.

 

[SW15]

Exactly. Low salaries and bad jobs due to massive oversupply.

That's part of why I chose an MBA over a JD when I was considering advanced level degrees. I had very unfortunate timing with my graduation date. I also didn't go to a Top 25 MBA program. For both MBAs and JDs, it's mostly those in the Top 25 who have a better chance of making the return on investment/return on effort of doing the advanced level degree worth it. I don't recommend an MBA or JD unless it's from a Top 25 program.

My career is mediocre for having an MBA and now being 14 years post MBA graduation. I have a deent overall salary level but nothing that's going to impress women solely on money alone. Being a Top 10-20% guy these days is what gets panties to drop.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Jesus you guys are dark.

There are enough positives with having children that makes people still have them. Fathers have rights too.

My pops mentored a young black gentlemen, who was a good man, married to an attractive white woman. They eventually divorced after having three children. The man got full custody of all three children, has since remarried, is now working in upper management and looks happier than ever. Idk the details but he seems to have made it out just fine.

This is not about being "dark". I'm talking about real life cases that I'm personally familiar with. Obviously, this does not happen in every divorce but it happens often enough to give you pause.

 

[EyeBRollin]

This is not about being "dark". I'm talking about real life cases that I'm personally familiar with. Obviously, this does not happen in every divorce but it happens often enough to give you pause.

Some of the incidents you describe are beyond atypical. You’re argument for not having children basically comes down to seeing other people reproduce with crazy broads that fvcked them over. Empirically, that is a minority of situations involving a couple that shares children.

Not to mention- men / fathers choose which woman bears their seed.

 

[EyeBRollin]

How do you know this? From my point of view, it seems higher than 50/50. I know a guy that has to pay child support to a deadbeat mom who only see the kid maybe once a week. He has full custody and still has to pay her child support. Their income levels were pretty equal, so that's not a factor.

If that were the case, majority of people would be born to broken homes. Such is not the case.

 

[Barrister]

This is not about being "dark". I'm talking about real life cases that I'm personally familiar with. Obviously, this does not happen in every divorce but it happens often enough to give you pause.

They definitely exist. I will also say that MOST family court cases are not these types of horrible scenarios. Now, there is still a definitive favoritism displayed for the woman in most family cases.

Regardless, I don't think these few horrible scenarios are a reason to NOT have children if you are thinking about it.

 

[SW15]

The judge makes all the difference - and with a substantial increase in female judges - many of whom have an axe to grind against males in general - it is no wonder that this has gotten as bad as it has.

Let's take a moment and think about female judges. What I am about to say is more applicable if they are appointed judges and not elected judges. I think electing judges is complete bullshiit. I prefer jurisdictions that appoint judges.

To become an appointed female judge, you must complete law school and pass the bar exam. That's standard process for being a lawyer. This forum in general discusses how bad female lawyers are as dating and relational prospects. This is no different for judges since they are pre-qualified as attorneys. When we discuss how bad female lawyers are as dating and relational prospects, it is more focused upon law firm lawyers than in-house counsel lawyers, though in-house counsel lawyers are likely not a picnic to date either.

Both standard female lawyers and female judges are JDs who are typically poor relational prospects and not very dateable. Of course, a female judge is going to have an axe to grind against males in general. Think about the dating experiences of most female judges.

If you're a female judge, you're likely a massive careerist since you obtained a JD. You're likely also a feminist and a huge proponent of women's rights. There's also a good chance you practiced family law prior to being a judge.

 

[Barrister]

Let's take a moment and think about female judges. What I am about to say is more applicable if they are appointed judges and not elected judges. I think electing judges is complete bullshiit. I prefer jurisdictions that appoint judges.

To become an appointed female judge, you must complete law school and pass the bar exam. That's standard process for being a lawyer. This forum in general discusses how bad female lawyers are as dating and relational prospects. This is no different for judges since they are pre-qualified as attorneys. When we discuss how bad female lawyers are as dating and relational prospects, it is more focused upon law firm lawyers than in-house counsel lawyers, though in-house counsel lawyers are likely not a picnic to date either.

Both standard female lawyers and female judges are JDs who are typically poor relational prospects and not very dateable. Of course, a female judge is going to have an axe to grind against males in general. Think about the dating experiences of most female judges.

If you're a female judge, you're likely a massive careerist since you obtained a JD. You're likely also a feminist and a huge proponent of women's rights. There's also a good chance you practiced family law prior to being a judge.

I would say many (not all) female lawyers I have come across typically are out to prove something. This doesn't change when they become a judge. I think it is certainly the type of woman who wants to get a law degree in a profession that has historically been male dominant.

I have also dated (in an LTR) a female lawyer for 2.5 years and can say it was often a difficult road to hoe. Hot and very smart - but a huge pain in the a$$ and constantly starting frame wars. Won't make that mistake again.

(We have gotten a little off topic here lol)

 

[wifehunter]

the system is designed to eat your children alive

choose wisely