Any Cheaters On Here?

[zekko]

Lately I've been acutely aware that I am surrounded by guys who cheat on their wives (and a lot of women who willingly sleep with them, including some married women). I'm kind of curious as to what the mindsets of these guys are. I've done a few indiscreet things in the past, but I've generally been pretty faithful to the women I've been committed to. These guys seem to make a lifestyle out of screwing around.

I know I've read several posters on here who have talked about intending to have a few women "on the side" when/if they get married. Why even go into marriage knowing you have such appetites?

One fellow I know seems fairly easy to figure out. He's married to a very fat woman but he chases all the hotties. Maybe he settled for an ugly girl, and then later realized he could get better looking women. Or maybe she was pretty when he married her and she ballooned up afterwards.

But generally I wonder what is driving the behavior of these guys? Are they simply driven by sexual impulses and don't think about it any deeper than that? Can they just not control themselves? Do they constantly crave the excitement of new and different things/women? Do they feel no sense of loyalty to their women?

I know there's a certain segment of this forum that would condone/encourage this type of thing, and would say that this is "alpha" behavior, and that a real man will always be screwing multiple women.

As for myself, I've lived with my LTR for eight years, and while I have admittedly been tempted a few times, it's been nothing I can't control. I have certain convictions about this and have no wish to hurt my girlfriend. But I'm curious about the mindset pf these other guys that think differently.

 

[5string]

Same here zekko. I have been tempted a number of times but have checked it at the door.

Why is this? It's not only temptation, it involves excitement, the chase, the hunt, something that is forbidden. All that sh!t.

It's just that some people can't control their impulses, simply put.

I know tons of married guys who do this as well as some married women.

 

[zekko]

It's just that some people can't control their impulses, simply put.

It appears more to me like these guys don't even want to control their impulses, it's like it wouldn't even occur to them.

I think that if a man decides to cheat, his IL (or level of respect) in his gf/wife is not sufficiently high.

Yeah, I considered that too. Like your wife, my girlfriend treats me really well. I imagine many of these guys are stuck in lousy relationships, or their wives are complete b!tches, or maybe they just stay together for the kids, who knows?

Watching these guys pursue the hotties though - it is absolutely mind boggling to me the amount of validation these girls must be getting from these guys These dudes must make them feel like the sexiest creatures on the planet, the way they fawn over them and such. They must realize that these guys are running the same game on every other hot girl in the vicinity. But most of the girls that respond to them are the type to sleep around themselves anyway.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

There's a popular saying here that goes,..

"Anything you cannot say 'No' to makes you it's slave."

I happen to agree with this, however, by this definition, does not commitment make you a 'slave' by default? If by the circumstances of a commitment you cannot, figuratively, say "no" to the that (or due to that) commitment, are you not then a slave?

If I'm in a committed LTR with a wife or a GF and over the course of that relationship I come to realize that she's not what's in my best interests for any number of reasons, even though she's 100% faithfully committed to me and the LTR - should I then break that commitment? If I do, am I then being unethical for having broken that commitment? Should the commitment to my own personal well being and future happiness be compromised by another commitment? What's the moral obligation,commitment to my own well being, or is my obligation to the principle of commitment itself?

You see, in most contexts, the "personal responsibility" meme always presumes an even starting point. This is rarely the case. It's much easier to believe a cheater lacks "self control" than it is to consider what's motivated the guy to commit to something in the first place, and then renege on that commitment.

 

[zekko]

It's much easier to believe a cheater lacks "self control" than it is to consider what's motivated the guy to commit to something in the first place, and then renege on that commitment.

That's what I'm curious about, what's motivating these guys.

Some may lack self control, but to me it appears more to me like these guys are very driven to proactively seek out these affairs. What they're doing is intentional, and while they may feel some guilt over it, I don't see any evidence of it. These guys are doing what they want to do, and pursuing it with vigor.

Frankly, what they're doing seems very alien to me. If my relationship had gone downhill, I would hope I would end it first instead of taking all the time and energy (and samspade points out) to set up this life of deceit. Of course, once you add kids to the mix, things can change.

Honestly, I also find it a little disheartening the number of attractive women who are up for this type of thing. It actually looks like the more attractive the girl, the more likely she is to join in. They probably like being worshipped as sex objects.

 

[KarmaSutra]

"I don't eat the same fvcking sandwich everyday. I'll be damned if I'm going to eat the same woman everyday."

This I've told to every woman I've dated post-divorce. In this rational context they, "get it".

I was talking to Kendal, the Barista at the Starbucks I visit nightly, about this very topic last night. She asked how I was (having seen obvious hickies littered around my neck and chest), I replied by telling her my dating life was quite full.

"How do you keep more than one woman at a time?", she asked.

I threw her my sandwich rebuttal, to which a light seemed to shine on in her eyes. She too, "got it".

If you've the testicular constitution to be completely honest with YOUR intentions with women, from the get-go, there's never any worry about cheating.

 

[jtlancer]

I think you are giving way more thought to this than the people that do it do. It's like you are driving the speed limit and shaking your fist at all the cars that are driving faster. Why do they do that? What makes them think they don't have to follow the rules? Do they think they are better than me?

And, of course, for some reason some people fell so bad about these things that feel they must report others. I personally loathe that kind of behavior.

I like the quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln:
"When I do good I feel good, when I do bad I feel bad. That's my religion"

Perhaps you want to find out why some people don't feel bad?

 

[Colossus]

There is always two sides to every cheating story. I'm of the belief that women cheat primarily because there is a need going unmet--mainly emotional.

With men, it is most often physical--in that they just feel entitled to variety, temptation by a hotter woman, or they are unhappy sexually with whomever their LTR is. Of course there is the "thrill of the chase" aspect as well.

I know two guys at the gym who cheat on their long-term, live-in gfs pretty regularly. Hell I even saw them hooking up outside a bar, lol. I've heard through the gym grapevine that their gfs know, it's just become a dont ask, dont tell thing. I'm friends with them but I've never asked. Frankly it's none of my business and I'm not about to pass judgment on them. Who knows why they do it. I always keep in mind that morality is a very subjective thing.

 

[zekko]

I think you are giving way more thought to this than the people that do it do

Oh, I'm sure of that.

It's like you are driving the speed limit and shaking your fist at all the cars that are driving faster. Why do they do that? What makes them think they don't have to follow the rules? Do they think they are better than me

Where am I shaking a fist? I'm not trying to pass judgement on these guys at all (although I would not be comfortable doing what they're doing). I'm just curious about their mindset. Or as you put it, I guess I would like to know why they don't feel bad about it.

I've heard through the gym grapevine that their gfs know, it's just become a dont ask, dont tell thing.

I'm surprised these guys don't get caught more often than they do. Women aren't usually that good at keeping secrets. I'm surprised they don't blab it all over till it gets back to the wife.

Interesting that no cheaters have come forward. I'm surprised no one has told me it is "beta feminist social conditioning" to be faithful to your girlfriend.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The main difference between Charlie Sheen banging multiple women and various pornstars, and Tiger Woods banging multiple women and occasionally pornstars is that Tiger Woods made a commitment in marriage to "forsake all others". Sexual impulse and one's control over it isn't the issue here, it's what a person commits to that is. Tiger Woods' mistake wasn't that he wanted to ƒuck a buffet full of women. Tiger's mistake was that he committed to marriage when he was too young, idealistic and inexperienced to appreciate what sex with a variety of women could mean to his own maturity, his future wife and the stability of a future family by getting it out of his system before he had regrets for not having enjoyed the women his life would afford him.

This is most men's reason for cheating in a committed relationship - they rushed into committed monogamy before they fully realized their potential to experience a variety of women. That of course is by an order of degrees depending upon how 'deprived' the guy might feel.

I think it's important to understand that for anyone to "cheat" there are 2 essential elements to infidelity; opportunity to cheat, and a reason to cheat. Most men may have ample reason to cheat, but few opportunities to. Sexual impulse is the most obvious, but I think that most Men prone to cheating do so because they feel they got a raw deal in their commitment contract. Maybe they were subject to a bait & switch marriage, maybe they bought into the Matrix and became self-aware of their true sexual market value, etc. The point is that it's not just sexual impulse and a lack of control that prompts them to infidelity - it's a lack of appreciation for their newly realized potential. Sexual impulse can be mitigated by porn, genuine appreciation cannot. For every married guy you see with the opportunity of chatting up a hottie who isn't his wife, there's a thousand more men snapping it to Bree Olsen on redtube wondering why their wives wont ƒuck like they used to when they were single, wondering why she says one thing and does another, wondering why he committed to 9 hours a day in a cube farm just to keep up what his wife tells him is expected of him.

 

[davewe]

I'm surprised that on this forum and in the 21st century we're still debating about "cheating."

Now maybe I live in a pretty liberal city, but I swear that half the couples I know are in open relationships. Are they cheating? Do we know for sure that that married co-worker you see skirt chasing doesn't have an arrangement with the Mrs. who is doing the same thing?

As to the beaten to death Tiger Woods issue, which of us knows what his behind the scenes "commitment" to his wife was? I suspect she didn't dump him because she suddenly discovered, heaven forbid, that there were other women; she dumped him because it came out in public and she was humiliated.

You can make a commitment to someone and not necessarily have it be based on monogamy.

 

[Zarky]

Read my post here:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1786244&postcount=6

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Law 20: Do Not Commit to Anyone
It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence, you become the master of others— playing people against one another, making them pursue you.

 

[zekko]

I'm surprised that on this forum and in the 21st century we're still debating about "cheating."

Just because some people have open relationships doesn't mean that there aren't other people out there cheating.
Are you trying to say there should be no monogamous relationships?

Law 20: Do Not Commit to Anyone
It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence, you become the master of others— playing people against one another, making them pursue you.

I agree that in the end you have to be commited to yourself, and not dragged down by someone else you may go astray.
But I don't think you mean that this gives you carte blanche to cheat on your wife, do you?

After giving this some thought, I think one big reason some guys cheat while others don't is that they set a higher priority on sex than others. If sex is the most important thing in a guy's life, he's probably not going to be monogamous.

 

[davewe]

Just because some people have open relationships doesn't mean that there aren't other people out there cheating.
Are you trying to say there should be no monogamous relationships?

Of course not. People can be whatever they want to be. I was surprised by the use of a judgmental term like "cheating" on a forum that promotes the open lifestyles that this forum does. You can only be a "cheater" if you lie to your girl or to yourself about your intentions. I suspect that more men lie to themselves. The 30 year old who falls in love and gets married may genuinely believe on his wedding day that he will never sleep with another woman again. But ask him if he has the same moral certainty 5 or 10 years later.

BTW, the modern notion of monogamy has become serial monogamy. A guy who says, "I've been banging the same girl for the past 2 years, and before that I lived with a girl for 3 years and was "faithful" to her, before that with the same girl for 1 year, and before that I was married for 8 years. That guy is practicing serial monogamy. Most of those guys salve their conscious by hopping from one flower to the next. That ain't how our parents defined monogamy.

 

[C-quenced]

BTW, the modern notion of monogamy has become serial monogamy. A guy who says, "I've been banging the same girl for the past 2 years, and before that I lived with a girl for 3 years and was "faithful" to her, before that with the same girl for 1 year, and before that I was married for 8 years. That guy is practicing serial monogamy. Most of those guys salve their conscious by hopping from one flower to the next. That ain't how our parents defined monogamy.

abso-****ing-lutely. About time someone isn't lying to himself.

 

[C-quenced]

Oh, I'm sure of that.


Where am I shaking a fist? I'm not trying to pass judgement on these guys at all (although I would not be comfortable doing what they're doing). I'm just curious about their mindset. Or as you put it, I guess I would like to know why they don't feel bad about it.


I'm surprised these guys don't get caught more often than they do. Women aren't usually that good at keeping secrets. I'm surprised they don't blab it all over till it gets back to the wife.

Interesting that no cheaters have come forward. I'm surprised no one has told me it is "beta feminist social conditioning" to be faithful to your girlfriend.

Lets face it I have yet to meet a sharply dressed, witty, smooth talking player with killer game stay faithful to any one woman no matter how attractive she is. Most of these guys are smart enough to avoid commitment at all costs but when they do lie to themselves and say they found "the one", it isn't very long until he gets curious about other women. These fellas just LOVE p*ssy too much to stay faithful to any one woman. Cry about morals and double standards all you want but you may want to start pointing the fingers at the women who spread their legs to these guys. After all these "alphas" only make up a small percentage of the male population. If there's no ring on that b!tch you don't owe her sh!t.

I believe that the issue at hand isn't that you're adhering to principles of honor and integrity. It's that you unrealistically expect women to live by them as well.

 

[zekko]

BTW, the modern notion of monogamy has become serial monogamy. A guy who says, "I've been banging the same girl for the past 2 years, and before that I lived with a girl for 3 years and was "faithful" to her, before that with the same girl for 1 year, and before that I was married for 8 years. That guy is practicing serial monogamy. Most of those guys salve their conscious by hopping from one flower to the next. That ain't how our parents defined monogamy.

I have to disagree with this. Monogamy means one sexual partner at a time, not one sexual partner for your whole life. As for our parents, I think a lot of them were a lot more sexually active (with a wider variety of partners) than we might think.

After all these "alphas" only make up a small percentage of the male population. If there's no ring on that b!tch you don't owe her sh!t.

The funny thing is most of these guys I'm seeing who regularly cheat are not "alpha" at all. They are in no position of command, they just scrape by financially, they don't have high status, they're not even in very good shape (guess they're not "hitting the gym"). What they are is horndogs. And that is their real secret, I think. They are so horny for fresh meat they do whatever they have to do to make something happen.

Regarding the "ring", I should be clear I am specifically talking about guys cheating on their wives. I don't consider boyfriend/girlfriend a very high level of commitment, although I am faithful to the girl I cohabitate with.

 

[davewe]

I have to disagree with this. Monogamy means one sexual partner at a time, not one sexual partner for your whole life.

So by that definition if a guy banged a different girl every month (but only one at a time) he's monogamous. I doubt that's what the religious types had in mind.

 

[Zarky]

Well, would you call a man who was married and divorced and remarried a "bigamist?" Maybe in the 16th century Catholic church you might, but.. not these days.

When you're talking about monogamy, bigamy or polygamy, you're technically talking about "at the same time." Of course you're technically talking about marriage, too. So if you're never been married you've technically never been in any time of "-gamous" relationship at all.