Any Cheaters On Here?

[5string]

I have an interesting question


say you are married. and you start cheating. or she starts cheating. doesnt' matter./ but you are attracted to her still and she is still attracted to you and you have a kid and she does a good job of raising the kid and you guys are doing well fincnailly together, basically the only strain on the relationship is the need for outside **** or poon.

would you ever entertain the thought of having a discreet, just keep it out of my face and still give me what i need type relationship?


back to my son, as silly as it sounds, he kinda motivates me. I want to be a good role model and daddy. I want him to have a positive man in his lie to say you know what I want to be just like him when I grow up. When he was born, i have always been a serious guy but he really made me say to myself okay it's time to get serious about your goals, beucase they are just not for you anymore.

Actually about a month ago, she was kinda tipsy but she brought up the fact she wouldn't mind another kid. Not sure how I feel about that. I have always been a one is enough guy, but i wouldn't mind a daughter. But, there has not been a daughter born on my dad's side of my family in over a century (seriously, pretty neat stat), we just dont' have daughters lol.we will see. If we do it won't be for probably another 4 years or so, my dad had my brother when I was 7 and that was perfect timing as I could entertain myself by that age.

As to your first question, that being "would you do it", I'd think about, but would not go there.

Keep in mind that I am not trying to be critical or negative here, but let's say you did it. Later in life when your son turns into a man, what if he says, "Dad, did you ever cheat on mom'? Would any of us answer honestly?

backbreaker...I admire you for what you have done in life in the face of adversity. I bet you are a good father. Maybe you should have a talk with her about having another? And if they have all been boys for so long, maybe you just might get the long overdue daughter :yes:

 

[backbreaker]

I think it really is more of a western culture thing, this idea of monomogy. Look at at HH Mohammed bid Rashid Al Maktoum, one of the richest men in the world BTW and is like the man in international hosre racing... has 2 wifes and at least 20 kids. And the younger wife is a bad mofo.

so he can sleep with 2 women in one week, no one sees a problem. A guy sees a hot woman in a bar and has a ONS and he is the biggest peice of scum on earth? I don't buy it.

 

[grayclif]

I think it really is more of a western culture thing, this idea of monomogy.

BB I'm sure you know this - It's a Christianity thing. Polygamy is allowed by Islam as long as each wife can be supported equally. As far relationships between men and women go the Qur'an gets it right.

 

[zekko]

I think it really is more of a western culture thing, this idea of monomogy

Well, monogamy certainly isn't exclusively Western, nor does it have its roots in the West, nor in Christianity, for that matter. Ancient Egyptians practiced monogamy, for example.

Mormons are a form of Christian (although Fundamentalists would deny this) and they believe in polygamy. I've never thought that it was right that the US outlawed polygamy because freedom of religion would suggest that Mormons be allowed to practice it.

There is even some disagreement on whether or not Christianity demands monogamy. Many Old Testament patriarchs had multiple wives, or else one wife plus concubines.

 

[Burroughs]

would you ever entertain the thought of having a discreet, just keep it out of my face and still give me what i need type relationship?

Yes.

Trouble is you would be handing your wife enormous leverage legally/financially should she ever become aware of the 'extra' relationship.

Monogamy was about control of male sexuality by the church...marriage was their tollbooth to sanctioned sex. Today monogamy serves the same function but the controller is the state.

Islam has that aspect right in many ways. If I'm able to sell my business this year I may well be able to afford four wives!

Added bonus: let the women fight amongst themselves for my affection.

 

[zekko]

Some would have us believe that we should all be breeding like rabbits, and that anything else is unnatural.

The fact is, the practice of monogamy predates recorded history. It is not an invention imposed upon us by evil Christians, evil feminists, evil beta males, the evil left wing media, the so called "matrix", or any other boogyman the DJ forum wishes to conjure up. It is a choice that has been made by some of the most respected members of this forum, as well as large numbers of our ancestors.

Monogamy is just as natural to humans as the choice to spend one's life seeking endless random hookups. Despite what may be said from those who wish to hijack the topic to their own politcal, cultural, or religious ends, or from the more paranoid and misogynistic among us.

 

[synergy1]

i disagree. Monogamy is something that is forced and this is evidenced by rampant cheating and divorces. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a statistically significant number of people world wide cheating and seeking more and more partners. This is also shown, albeit qualitatively, in married guys pretending not to check out hot women they see.

Nature is cruel. Most animals simply survive in their environments, which implies high death rates which necessitates high birth rates simply to maintain equilibrium. Quite simply put, nature and our gene pool plays the numbers game. Look at a sequia tree and its seeds ; how many become a tree? Not too many. What makes humans special is that we continue to cheat nature and no longer are required to breed at the same rates as 100 years ago in order to maintain equilibrium - actually geometric growth is the norm ( look at this correlation since the prevalence of petroleum in our society.)

What it all boils down to is that without our need and desire to breed frequently and hedging our bet w/ several partners, humans probably would not have survived its early existence. You can't suddenly erase millions of years of evolution in 100 years. With that in mind, I truly believe monogamy is a human concept...albeit given population growth, its something more people should practice.

 

[zekko]

Monogamy is something that is forced and this is evidenced by rampant cheating and divorces

Forced by whom? Or what?
If anything, the culture today makes monogamy more difficult.
The easy access to porn, for example. The media encourages children to become sexual at an earlier age, using sex to sell products, etc.

I truly believe monogamy is a human concept

There ARE other animals that are monogamous, so I'm not sure I would go that far. Nevertheless, so what if it were a human concept? How does that make it unnatural? If two humans one day decided to be monogamous, how is that unnatural?

Are you trying to say no one should be monogamous because it is a human concept? Tools are a human concept also, should no one use those?
Fact is, it is natural for humans to use tools, our advanced brains and opposable thumbs make it so.

 

[backbreaker]

Forced by whom? Or what?
If anything, the culture today makes monogamy more difficult.
The easy access to porn, for example. The media encourages children to become sexual at an earlier age, using sex to sell products, etc.


There ARE other animals that are monogamous, so I'm not sure I would go that far. Nevertheless, so what if it were a human concept? How does that make it unnatural? If two humans one day decided to be monogamous, how is that unnatural?

Are you trying to say no one should be monogamous because it is a human concept? Tools are a human concept also, should no one use those?
Fact is, it is natural for humans to use tools, our advanced brains and opposable thumbs make it so.

bad choice of words. For instance, take weight. What you are trying to say it doesn't make it NOT RIGHT, you said natural.

being less than 10% body fat is not natural whatsoever, yet everyone strives to be that. it's not going to kill you if you are today, but it would have 2-5 million years ago if you can't find food for 2 weeks you can live off the body fat. We work at being in shape, what you are attempting to sa, is that just because you have to work at something, doesn't mean it's not in your best interst. in other words, you shouldn't just **** everything that walks because it's your natural urge to do so. which, i agree with, i wouldn't be getting married otherwise.

 

[zekko]

being less than 10% body fat is not natural whatsoever, yet everyone strives to be that.

I honestly do not see how anyone can argue that monogamy is unnatural with a straight face. Mind you, I am not saying that a male "spreading his seed" is not natural, I am saying that monogamy is also natural.

Do you seriously think that the first couple that paired up (monogamously) did so because the Republicans told them to? More likely they did so because they were driven by an instinct (many primates are monogamous), or because they saw some advantage in doing so. The process of natural selection saw that this method of pair bonding was an effective way of continuing the species, and so monogamy lives on today.

The nuclear family has been a successful way of ensuring the survival of children farther back than we can trace it, even if it is under serious attack by the current culture. There is a drive in the male to stick around and help ensure that the child reaches a viable age. Some have placed this drive as being 5-7 years in duration, at which time the male may grow restless. I do not dispute this, but we still have a natural established period of monogamy. I have never argued that humans must mate for life.

If you want to say that the male urge to spread his seed is older than the urge to pair bond, that may, repeat MAY be so. We have no way of knowing. But even if the practice of monogamy is more modern, that does not make it less natural. If dinosaurs walked on land, then later evolved into birds, does that mean that flying for the bird is not natural?

Some people are so brainwashed by this pickup BS that they cannot see common sense any more. They will say that REAL men, real alpha men, are only concerned with their next random sexual encounter. But the fact is that many, many leaders of cities, states, and nations have been married and embraced monogamy. By definition, alpha men are leaders. You don't get much more alpha than leader of a country, do you?

And don't bring up Bill Clinton to me, because I have never argued that it is unnatural for a male to want to spread his seed. Rather, I am saying it is not unnatural to pair bond, as some in the pickup community might want you to believe.

 

[backbreaker]

half a page and you avoided my point completely.

 

[jafyk]

I think the part of the standard marriage vow that includes exclusiveness what well-meant, but was not entirely realistic. I think it's a great goal to strive for and probably minimizes risks (of many types) when one adheres to it, but I don't think one should think the world has come to an end if this particular part of the vow were broken on occasion.

So OP, if I may ask, why is this such a big deal to you? In other words, why do you give the act of sex so much power by making it out to be so much more than it really is? Also, please realize that infidelity has two general classes: physical and emotional. I believe the latter type of infidelity is what you should be more concerned about because that type goes beyond simply the physical.

I hate when you guys here say things like this. If your significant other goes out and does the same thing you will be breaking up with her and talking about it on here. To a certain degree I agree with you that cheating shouldn't be unforgivable. Yet some on here would say if you forgive that means you are tolerating and she will do it again. It seems that in this culture cheating is a less crime than murder. This all comes down to selfishness and yet no one cares about the hurt that could and comes out of it. Both to those directly involved and those indirectly involved. Also I believe the physical and emotional are related when it comes to cheating. One can lead to the other.

 

[jafyk]

BB I'm sure you know this - It's a Christianity thing. Polygamy is allowed by Islam as long as each wife can be supported equally. As far relationships between men and women go the Qur'an gets it right.

It's a Christianity thing huh? Well it's too bad America won't come out and claim they are are christian nation. Well, maybe the country is confused about its identity. I mean here in Indiana you can't buy liquor on Sunday. Does it mean that some people don't drink at home on Sunday? Or can't have kids around where you sell alcohol. Does it means daddy hides his alcohol at home when little Johnny walks by? Where I come from when our parents drank they gave us a teeny sip. Yet we knew better than to go out and buy alcohol. Here the sense of right and wrong is determined by the law. Laws that make no sense.
Anyway, for the person complaining about not being able to have 2 wives or more here in U.S. well it's your culture and your laws I guess you have to adapt to it. They might as well go ahead and say you can have as many wives as you like and not have any governmental benefits attached to marital status. Or you can move to the countries where you are allowed to have as many wives as you like. Ironically in some of those countries too the women are covered up and not allowed to be wild like they are over here.

 

[jafyk]

Ok, somebody on here was talking about how Muslims have it right when it comes to marrying more than 1 woman. So, I came across this video and I think it's interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQaPBU5ppsk&feature=player_embedded#at=510

Personally, I think it's easier to manage one wife and treat her fairly as opposed to trying to manage a bunch of wives and having unhealthy rivalry between the wives and children.

 

[zekko]

half a page and you avoided my point completely.

Honestly, that rant wasn't directed at you (or anyone else specifically), just at the topic in general. I probably shouldn't have quoted you in my message.

I agree with what you said, except that I don't think monogamy is unnatural.
We would probably all be under 10% body fat if were still living in hunter/gatherer societies.

What's with the "Charlie and the two beds" signature, anyway? Thinking about having an open marriage?

Personally, I think it's easier to manage one wife and treat her fairly as opposed to trying to manage a bunch of wives and having unhealthy rivalry between the wives and children.

I don't really have any problem with a guy having multiple wives, as long as everyone involved is happy with it. But yeah, I imagine managing one wife is enough of a challenge for most guys.

 

[jafyk]

I was looking through one of the windows in the "Mature Man" mansion. I see there's a guy here crying about his LTR going astray on him. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=183104 So, I guess I just came here to ask which of you cheater guys is responsible. Perhaps you can go to that thread and explain to him that "you know cheating is a simple part of life" and offer him some wise words, lol.

 

[synergy1]

I am confused on what the argument was about, so maybe a clarification is in order.

What I observe in nature and in most human behavior is playing the numbers game. This is evident in cheating, divorce, and the like. While there might be some human constructs such as monogamy, those are hardly the norm and represent a small outlier from average. Sure, lonely Ben might be 'natural' too, he doesn't represent the norm nor does he represent a species that will survive. Actually he is the last of his kind and his genes will be wiped off the planet.

I am not arguing about the morality of monogamy here, just what nature has presented to me. Genes play the game to reproduce and that is it. Humans really don't need to play this game anymore, but we can't unwire what got us here to begin with. Population growth IS a huge problem, and a lot of the long term economic problems we encounter today would be aided greatly if population growth was stagnant much like Denmark.

 

[jafyk]

If it is a numbers game why is it that if your GF/wife cheats on you you don't say, "Oh well it's the nature of things"? Why do you dump her and then come here and talk about it?

 

[azanon]

For me, it's quid pro quo. If I have a wife I do not want other c0cks in her, that would decrease her value to me. It's as simple as that. That is not a situation I am going to tolerate. If you wouldn't mind your wife having other c0cks in her, you are welcome to enjoy that. For me, if I expect fidelity from my woman, it's only fair to give it in return. That's simple respect and consideration.

You might say there should be a double standard, that men should be able to cheat but not women (because men need multiple sexual encounters more than women do). But women cheat as much as men, so I'm not sure that argument really holds water. Obviously there is something driving the women to cheat also.

There IS a double standard. Opinions are irrelevant where the biology is concerned. Anyone who's had introductory biology know that the man's primary goal is to spread seed far and wide, and the woman just needs that one man who is the best of the best.

Women do not cheat as much as men. It has been studied and surveyed statistically, and men come out almost 2 to 1 every time it's looked at. And this is consistent with the biology. What typically drives women to cheat is something RT could tell you about much more than me. The short version is the "alpha/DJ" male to inseminate, and the "beta/provider" male to pay the bills.

Also, there are a lot of guys who are able to stay faithful, so I don't think it's right to say that it is unrealistic. I will agree that for certain guys, it is unrealistic. But if they need the multiple partners that badly, maybe they shouldn't get married. Maybe there's a desire on their part to have their cake and eat it too.

You answered your own question with that last sentence, so no need for me to add anything else.

As you point out, there are risks to sex with multiple partners. Condoms are not 100% effective. If your woman cheats on you, you could end up a cuckold, or with an STD. That does not appeal to me, does it appeal to you?

Condoms work well enough that the risk is mitigated sufficiently to be arguably worth taking. No risk means not driving to work and living inside a box. And I am as concerned about my wife cheating on me as RT is; which is not concerned at all. In almost all cases, that is the worry of the AFC. When you're fully meeting your wife's needs, it is painfully obvious.

I suppose having a reputation as a horndog may suggest some state of health and virility. Nevertheless, a lot of these guys are simply not in the best of shape. They may have some paunch, for instance. Think of a middle aged Jack Nicholson.

Yes, there will be exceptions like most rules, but the typical/rule will be healthy people have healthy (or your word, horndog) sex drives. It is not the other way around as you originally stated. I've had the opportunity to be a man through the 20's and 30s, and I assure you "normal" is to think about and want sex pretty much all the time. I exercise almost every day, and my vitals are all normal.

 

[5string]

azanon

I havent researched it, but I think ultimately, regardless as to whatever studies have been done, that women actually cheat more than men.

They are better at hiding it. Women want their anti slvt defensive shield to remain intact at all times.