An outside perspective

[MysticViews]

I'll start by apologizing for posting here, since I know this site is geared for men and I know I may not be welcomed here. I am a frequent visitor (it started when I was trying to understand the thought process of a guy whom I was trying to get over) and he'd be considered an "alphamale".

I grew up with lots of guys since I was active and tomboyish. I have a brother whom I get along with great, and I generally find that guys have it easier (more sports to play, less drama with friends, and even have better magazines (i.e. Men's Journal) that have interesting articles than I could READ rather than flipping through fashion magazines with articles on petty things (how to lose weight, apply makeup, etc).

I like most of things things that's posted here (I enjoy the Anything Else section rather than the don juan, but there is a trend that I find a bit disturbing.

1. It seemed like a majority of folks here give women little respect. I suspect that the media has a lot to do with creating certain perceptions and bias (social conditioning), and I am not here to cry foul. But, I find it a little disappointing that some post (including the one about confidence is having control) mentioned how the poster used to put women on a pedestal (above them) and now, he can put women "beneath" him.

The message on confidence is great, but the mentality on putting something above you or below you is off-key, IMHO. Why must one need to put someone else down just to make themselves better. The issue here is not women. True confidence is independent of outside factors. It's what I call self-assuredness. If you are confident of who you are, then your confidence will naturally show. Why would you need to put someone above or below you? I don't want a guy that's better than me or worse than me...I want someone who is EQUAL to me (someone who could evenly match my jabs, jokes, and whatever mischief I cook up). :trouble:

2. The other thing that I was curious about...I know there are a lot of 'don juans' here, but don't most of you want to settle down in a long term relationship and stop playing games? If you keep playing games, how would you know when you finally find someone who might be good for you? How do you know when to stop looking? Are most of you still in your 20 and 30s? Maybe it's an age thing?

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

 

[Dannyrt34]

Alright first off, the whole thing about putting women "beneath" you is more to help with confidence. If a guy puts too many women "above" him, he will always be nervous, or scared to approach. It's more a figure of speech for me, just to let guys know that they shouldn't place women on a pedestal. I think of women as 'equal' to me and treat them as such. I respect women, as long as I get that same respect returned. It's not just with women either, I won't respect ANYBODY be it guys, gals, dogs, whatever. As long as I'm treated with respect, they'll all get respect from me. Just like how you asked your question, you seemed to ask it with respect to the board, so I gave you a respectful answer. So don't overanalyze that, I don't agree with acting like you are BETTER than anybody else. But if telling a guy to put women below him makes things easier on him, then yeah, he can go for it.

And the whole thing about long term relationships and one night stands? Well, it all depends on the guy. I personally prefer relationships, some guys don't though. I don't really like the term "Game" because it's not really a game, it just all comes down to being confident, charming, and an all around fun person to be around. Some guys on here just word things differently to make it easier for others to understand. And don't be scared to post, as long as you have some good insight or good discussion, we'll hear ya out.

 

[BacardiGuy]

find it a little disappointing that some post (including the one about confidence is having control) mentioned how the poster used to put women on a pedestal (above them) and now, he can put women "beneath" him. ...I want someone who is EQUAL to me

Most guys who end up here have a problem where they cannot view themselves as equal to women. They unconcsiously lower themselves. Putting women "beneath" is not actually a matter of respect, rather a mindstate that levels the playing field for the mind; a means of gaining the confidence in a sense. I'd say it's akin to a public speaker imagining the audience in their underwear.

An individual either has respect or they don't. Nothing advocated on this site alters that. A guy can still put women on a pedestal without respecting them, such as when a man buys things for a woman expecting sex in return. Likewise, it's also possible to "look down" on a woman with respect.


As for the second part of your post, again, it's an individual preference. Many guys here are only interested in getting with as many women as possible, but there is also a fair share of those who are in, or are in search of, LTR's. I'd say it's not really an age thing, nor even a maturity thing, but rather what physical or emotional needs a person prefers to have satisfied. Looking any further into this would require Freud's input.

 

[SamePendo]

I am a frequent visitor (it started when I was trying to understand the thought process of a guy whom I was trying to get over) and he'd be considered an "alphamale". . . . I don't want a guy that's better than me or worse than me...I want someone who is EQUAL to me (someone who could evenly match my jabs, jokes, and whatever mischief I cook up). :trouble:

I know there are a lot of 'don juans' here, but don't most of you want to settle down in a long term relationship and stop playing games? If you keep playing games, how would you know when you finally find someone who might be good for you? How do you know when to stop looking? Are most of you still in your 20 and 30s? Maybe it's an age thing?

1) She was trying to get over this "alphamale". She was attracted to him.
2) She has some fantasy as most chicks do with equal and all. (But who was she trying to get over? The Jerk.)
3) She is trying to shame "don juans" for "playing games" and not settling.

:crazy:

 

[Dannyrt34]

1) She was trying to get over this "alphamale". She was attracted to him.
2) She has some fantasy as most chicks do with equal and all. (But who was she trying to get over? The Jerk.)
3) She is trying to shame "don juans" for "playing games" and not settling.

:crazy:

Samependo, you seem confused. I understood what she is saying, she is trying to ask.

How can any guy ever really get emotionally involved with a girl (relationship) if their taught to hold back emotions. (playing games)

 

[Phyzzle]

To answer your questions:

1) We want to be respectful of a woman we just met . . . but ONLY as respectful as we are towards a guy we just met. We're just trying to take women off that pedestal.

2) How do we know we've found the right girl? 1 year together. That's about it. Until then, we hide our emotions a little.

Why, do you ask?

Mysticviews, have you ever had a guy that bought you flowers on a first date? Did he get a second date? (Heh Heh)

What we're trying to do here is make ourselves more like that guy you're trying to get over!!

Why? Because he's obviously doing something right to make you feel the way you feel about him!

 

[Driven2Succeed]

samependo,

i dunno about all that man.. but ur entitled to ur opinion..

mysticviews,

thanks for adding ur insight to the site.. its always welcome, esp from a woman..

basically i agree a lot of men here have the wrong idea about women and what a real relationship is and involves. i first came here in like 2001 as a 16 y/o AFC who was LOST.. i mean i had tons of girls as friends but could never make them feel attraction towards me. 5 years later i've been in 2 pretty good serious relationships, both about a year.. but ive also done the one night stand and for a long time i had a lot of anger towards girls and would basically treat them like sh1t.. get what i wanted, which was only ass.. and then just dump them.. i mean grimey stuff like getting head from a girl and kicking her out of my place when she was finished.. im not proud of that or anything but ive also loved 2 girls..one a lot more than the other.. ive had my heart broken once and im not ashamed to say it.. but it does hurt a lot..

i think every man here, came for one reason or another..i mean we were obviously unsure of how to handle women. i feel MOST of the men here are genuinely good guys who do want someone to love, but at the same time they try and try and fail again and again..eventually we wake up and we're like "wtf am i doing wrong?".. because everything we are taught from a young age is to respect women and treat them like gold.. we aren't taught that they are just like us and that they like to be treated like a normal person..

as far as disrespecting them and putting them down, i think it depends on the girl.. and i personally dont like girls who have no confidence or respect for themselves..a lot of guys just have to do it.. like u gotta break urself down and forget everything u thought u knew.. then u can build back up and eventually u can get ur game tighter..like right now i can use my dj tactics but i also take all the good AFC habits but use them in moderation depending on the girl and the situation..it just takes time to figure out what works for u

what we learn here is to basically manipulate a woman's emotions..and it may be wrong but its the only way into her heart for us. like seriously, we have to understand them so we can break the shell and untap the awesome girl inside..but as an AFC thats just not gonna happen..we learn how to make her feel things she can't control.. we break her logic and make her think with her heart and emotions..

i dont think we are wrong for that..

 

[Kourt]

Hey Mystic, great post, I completly agree with both of your points. I for one respect women, and don't view them as above or below me. Oh, and I personally do prefer the LTRS.

 

[MysticViews]

Dannyrt34: You understood and addressed my points - thank you! I appreciate your posts. The example I used (with regards to respect) is a tame one; there are quite a few out there where the underlying (or even the explicit!) message is that women are dumb and are only good for one thing. I won't even go into why or how some people may come to that conclusion, but I want to acknowledge that you and YBarcadi guy's points on respect are very valid, indeed.

Samependo:

1. Yes. I was trying to get over this "alphamale". I admitted it from the beginning. I must add that I considered him an "alphamale" only because as he is CONFIDENT and in tune of who he is, and it draws people to him (he's incredibly smart, sociable, and can lead meetings brilliantly). He's hardly a jerk. By definition, an alphamale must be a jerk?

2. With all due respect, it's not a "fantasy with most chicks do with equal and all". I don't see how that is even relevant to the guy I liked. When I say equal, I mean just that. I don't put him above or below me nor do I need to -he is my equal (he gets me, I get him, we're on the same page, which is why we're friends to begin with). Just because things didn't work out and I have to get over him isn't a contradiction in itself. Sometimes you end up liking people who may not reciprocate your interest or whatever reasons, and you need to move on (or what this site calls "next"ing or not having a one-itis). You can relate to that, no?

3) All I am trying to do is understand a mindset that is so different from my own. I'm no trying to "shame "don juans" for "playing games" and for not settling. If someone wants to play "games", that's his/her prerogative.

"Mysticviews, have you ever had a guy that bought you flowers on a first date? Did he get a second date? (Heh Heh)"

Wouldn't that guy considered an "AFC" on this site for bringing flowers on a first date? If the attraction and compatibility is there, then yes. If not, then nothing he buys me will make me change my mind. If you're not attracted to a girl, will you change your mind just because she's extremely nice towards you? (We're not so different there). Sure, I may think the guy is sweet, but it gurantees nothing if the first date is a bore.

Finally, Driven2succeed, I don't think you're wrong in trying to "manipulate" the women's emotions. If it helps and works, then all the more power to you. I simply wanted to understand why and I think I do now - thanks to all of you!

 

[i am me]

honestly, most guys hav good hearts but we know how girls are...they play games like us and they dont always like u back. thats why we play games wit yall and dont put alotta value in alotta girls. its not like we hate women, we love women. we jus cant hav yall fukin wit our feelings....but when the time comes, ill know when im ready to settle down and ill find a quality to woman to spend my life wit.......but im way too young to be thinkin bout that so i jus try to hav as much fun as i can wit women and wit life in general...

 

[Dannyrt34]

Dannyrt34: You understood and addressed my points - thank you

I'm flattered! You can just call me Danny, lol:woo:

 

[Drum&Bass]

most younger attractive women want to know what it feels like to be "less than" so they like confident guys who give them a roller coaster of emotional uncertainty. (i've had girls do that to me and as much as I thought they were b!tchez, it was exciting and I admit it was a lively feeling)

NOT SO ATTRACTIVE older women know time is running out and not that many good looking guys want them anymore so they look for a NICE, SWEET, CARING, LOVE ME FOR ME kind of guy because she knows she can be a cow and grab this sucka duck by the balls...he's gonna spend the rest of his life phucking, and caring for a cow because he never learned to be strong.
average scenario*

however if you learn to be strong, confident, independant and treat women like $hit AT 1st...eventually your humanitarian nature and compassion will kick in..you will begin to see the full aspect of the game and how to treat people and how you want to be treated...YOU WILL BE ABOVE ALL GAME PLAYING..YOU WILL KNOW THE WARNING SIGNS TO WATCH OUT FOR AND GOOD QUALITIES THAT MAKE FOR A GOOD COMPANION AND YOU WILL HAVE A HEALTHIER RELATIONSHIP AND QUALITY OF LIFE.
Because you've already been there and done that..

but 1st MOST GUYS have to $hit all over these dumb azz hookers and get their hearts broken to know what pain feels like and to know how bad it is to hurt other people to learn to appreciate a good woman and respect her as well as yourself...and eventually find THE ONE.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

This chick has more game than all of you.

I'm going to sit this 14 page thread out on top of mount actualized.

 

[SamePendo]

I'm flattered! You can just call me Danny, lol:woo:

wtf?

This chick has more game than all of you.

Sure she does. You two guys can have a go at her, don't worry, I wont try to hit on her.


Anyways... A "alpha" commonly does things that seem jerkish. Out of curiosity, why did you break up? Who broke it off? How old are you? Why are you single? Do you want to have kids? Why?

 

[Dannyrt34]

LOL!

You know, SP, there seems to be a double standard here. If a man posted on an all women's forum, he'd be suspected of gaming, but when the occasional woman posts here, she's gaining "multiple perspectives." And, it's pretty sad seeing some salivate over a woman's compliment...

I was being sarcastic, poo poo head.

 

[SamePendo]

My fault...yes, indeed: The sarcasm is just oozing from that post...how could I've missed it! ? SORRY.

Yeah, you ... pee pee face! :kick:

 

[( . )( . )]

What a dumb thread, this bird wanders in and all senses fly out the window.

I'm too drugged up and tired to call out the truckload of bullsh!t I see but fvck it heres 2 I can be assed with.

I don't want a guy that's better than me or worse than me...I want someone who is EQUAL to me

WRONG!! No b!tch in the history of mankind has gotten gooey in the wee wee from a guy she perceives as her "equal". Dont be pulling that sh!t here woman, you know as well as I do (or maybe your not consciously aware) the guy who she goes home with to get railed all night is seen as anything BUT her equal, sheeesh her "equals" are as useless as tits on a bull for her social boost up for a start.

thanks for adding ur insight to the site.. its always welcome, esp from a woman..

"especially from a woman"... Why, what the hell is that supposed to mean?


From what I can see and that isnt much, SamePendo's post was the only valid post here.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

You're all behaving like a bunch of 13-year-old hicks trying to impress the local farm girl. Tom Sawyer's got some competition.

Pffft LOL, Cocaines a hell of a drug eh?

I never knew you were a drug-fvcked b!tch. That must explain your anger issues.

 

[MysticViews]

You know, SP, there seems to be a double standard here. If a man posted on an all women's forum, he'd be suspected of gaming, but when the occasional woman posts here, she's gaining "multiple perspectives."

*sigh*. Honestly, if I were on an all women's forum and a guy posted on it, I would welcome him provided that he has some good insight or comments to add to it. Personally, the quality of the post/discussion is more important to me rather than the "whom" that is making the post.

Let's get to the points:

Physically attractive women are confident not by choice but by the way they're used to being treated. Most men, however, have to earn respect before gaining confidence. Personally, I feel this is wrong. Why should I respect a girl and add to her confidence just because she has a nice rack or a nice a$$?

Similar to a response I had been given on this thread, I guess you'll have to blame the male counterparts who treat women like goddesses (objectifying them or putting them on a pedestal), instead of treating them as equal (as a person)

most younger attractive women want to know what it feels like to be "less than" so they like confident guys who give them a roller coaster of emotional uncertainty. (i've had girls do that to me and as much as I thought they were b!tchez, it was exciting and I admit it was a lively feeling

I will concede this point.


....YOU WILL BE ABOVE ALL GAME PLAYING..YOU WILL KNOW THE WARNING SIGNS TO WATCH OUT FOR AND GOOD QUALITIES THAT MAKE FOR A GOOD COMPANION AND YOU WILL HAVE A HEALTHIER RELATIONSHIP AND QUALITY OF LIFE. Because you've already been there and done that..

Right, THAT is where people should get to, but some people get stuck in the game playing stage and never get above it to know what you just said, at least until much, much later...going back to why I think it is an age thing because an older person generally has more experiences (not just with relationships, but life in general)

Sure she does. You two guys can have a go at her, don't worry, I wont try to hit on her.

Again, I don't know how this is relevant to the topic at hand. :nono:


Out of curiosity, why did you break up? Who broke it off? How old are you? Why are you single? Do you want to have kids? Why?

I don't want to go into the specifics of my personal life, but I will answer briefly:

-We were never really together, so there's never really a breakup. It just felt as painful as one. I just chalk it up to bad timing and setup (workplace, he got out of a LTR, lots of mixed signal for a long time, no real moves) so I finally decided that he's not interested and it was time to move on. 24.

- Why I am single? I just...am. I don't really put much thought into it. I am single because I am not currently in a relationship, and I don't want to be in a relationship with anyone just for the sake for being in one. Simple as that.

- Do I want kids? Not sure how it's relevant, but yes, someday. I like kids, but I don't want kids any time soon. I still have lots to do, and I'm not ready for kids now.

This is only my third post on this site ever, but I think I will go back to being a lurker. I have been busy and can only post when I get a free moment late at night or morning depending on how you look at it, and beyond a few here who seemed to get my point and seriously answer my questions (which I appreciate), the rest ...well, folks can see it for themselves.

Anyway, it's been interesting to read the differing thoughts and comments. It's all good. Thanks all and take care!

 

[( . )( . )]

I never knew you were a drug-fvcked b!tch.

Ahh my venomous E-stalker owns me again. I just cant compete.