Am I okay looking?

[SW15]

He isnot ugly though lol. He is a slightly above average looking white guy in those pics, so just put a good haircut, style, and look on him and he's easily an 8. I would definitely not put him in the bottom 80% lol. I'm assuming he looks like his pictures though.

No, he's not. Right now, he's probably around a 6. He could do some self improvement and get to a 7. He'd still be bottom 80% as a 7 in looks, if he didn't have money. It's not easy to get into that top 20%.

Actually, I know what his problem is....

Simping? Being beta?

 

[Gamisch]

When I was in high school and my early twenties I was a lot more open to having relationships. I had kind of a Disneyland fantasy about it for a while. Then I had several repeated nasty encounters where I got played badly and started getting into MGTOW. I’ve gotten over that phase pretty much and now just want ONS. When I deal with bull**** and don’t attain ONS my mental state suffers and I start posting threads like these. This has been the case for a while. A big issue behind it is not having a social circle due to being transient.

I tend to interact with girls randomly because I don’t cold approach often and hate OLD, and also have no consistent social circle as mentioned. The last several I’ve tried to lay have **** tested me and pissed me off. Either flaked on going out, used me for something else, etc etc. I could make another thread about it.

I think I need to work on not giving off the beta provider vibe so much as other have mentioned.

Or you use this beta provider vibe to your advantage. Sell them a dream . That's why I asked what type of women you chase. E.g ; with this nice guy vibe the Black, Latin and "rougher " white women wont react well to you. Similar like a black hoodlum chasing suburb white collar women. You gotta " know your lane" to maximize your succes rate.

He isnot ugly though lol. He is a slightly above average looking white guy in those pics, so just put a good haircut, style, and look on him and he's easily an 8. I would definitely not put him in the bottom 80% lol. I'm assuming he looks like his pictures though.

Actually, I know what his problem is....

He is in those difficult looks range between a 7-8. It's too good looking/too good to pull a 5 and below and he's not good looking enough to pull a 7 and above naturally. 6s and 7s are the most competed for women in the market, so he probably lacks the emotional game to compete with them. Any girl above a 7 is monetized or only goes for high value men.

My advice:

-Get a haircut and beard worked up- Low or high fade works on most heads
-Go to the gym 5 times a week, practice a good diet, do light cardio
-Put yourself out there aggressively on the apps, any social outings with friends, any chances that will put you in front of women
-Hold your nose and plunge 5s to get some positive experience in you. You might get lucky with a girl higher, but she will more than likely take you to the cleaners. Eventually, you will develop the game and aurora and start naturally attracting girls on your level and above.

Disclaimer: A 5 on my scale is still fvckable, but you wouldn't willingly show your friends her lol.

Great advice . Especially the 5 topic. Men dont wanna hear this , probably desensitized by porn and IG ect. But to be able to pull 7 and higher you gotta have solid game.


First of hats of to op for having the balls to post a picture and be open for feedback.

I wanna add the following advice; Hood knowledge.

Aggressively putting yourself out there and start cold approaching like you are Joe Carioca. A real horndog that needs female company. Women will respective man who is not ashamed of his own sexuality.

You have NOTHING to lose at this point. Its your life, yolo and all the cliches available . Imo a man must be able to say he did AT LEAST 1000 approaches in his life. Whether a big portion happened on high school, or as a successful 30 something years old doesnt matter. You gotta go through the trenches. If you refuse to do this you'll indeed end up with long dry spells, because life doesn't give you nothing. It's a man's world!

OP already stated he doesnt do cold approach. Create your own style and approach the whole world. Talk to everybody.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Great advice . Especially the 5 topic. Men dont wanna hear this , probably desensitized by porn and IG ect. But to be able to pull 7 and higher you gotta have solid game.

Yeah I hate how people just assume every girl to them is a 9 lol. Most hot girls you see or encounter in public are dolled up 6s and 7s with makeup after you remove your pvssy goggles. 8s and 9s are rarer and you will not find them in normal places because most of them are monetized haha.

 

[Gamisch]

Female chiming in.

If Pan87 were still here, we all know what he'd say.

Learn Game. Having good Game is everything, or almost, which includes the vibe/energy you project, your confidence, your look and style and knowing how to read a particular woman correctly and pounce.

Re your look, jmo but you could benefit from looking a bit "edgier." Less smiling, more stoic looking. My husband very rarely smiles even in pics. He has a great set of teeth, it's just his style, his overall demeanor.

I kind of like the lines around your eyes!! I showed your pic to two of my girlfriends and they agreed.

Why?

Since you have a bit of a baby face, they make you appear older, more masculine; it gives off a vibe that you dig the outdoors- rock climbing, mountain/desert biking, surfing, volleyball, typical masculine activities.

And that you're not some "pretty boy" who is obsessed with his looks, primping, diligently using moisturizers, getting facials, etc.

You're a man, rugged, virile and edgy.

I mean take Brad Pitt for example. He's got a bit of a pretty boy face too but he's edgy! His look, his style, his energy, his attitude.

He's got that IDGAF attitude about him and even without his money and fame, no doubt he'd be successful with the ladies.

Same with Leo DiCaprio, imo.

To achieve all this, you basically need one thing.

Confidence. Everything else will follow even Game. Because without confidence, Game will come off contrived and phony like you don't know what you're doing and following what you read in some book.

Use the great books (48 Laws of Power, The Rational Male, etc) as a guide, and tailor to your own style.

JMO!

How would you rate him ? From a female pov. (Please dont roast dude too much).

Haha yeah man I kinda miss Pan, although I do suspect he's posting with an alt account, or perhaps he is just heating up another forum.

By the way real life Brad is a Fcking simp. His looks dont match his game skills. But yeah ,fightclub actor Brad had the perfect attitude. Leo on the other hand...leo is a P.I.M.P

 

[kavi]

I think the beard is valueable as it will create a more mysterious, rugged and manly look and balance out the pretty book asthetic. This is why I advised to grow it out.

The nice guy vibe, attitude and confidence is definitely a thing and that is what is being reflected in the smiling and forward posture, aknowledging camera, wanting to be in-frame photo.

When taking photos and generally IRL its important to be either straight or slightly leaning back in terms of posture. Do not put yourself in the frame, but draw the frame towards you.

Also, Social Circle is not for hookups cos it will often blow up imo, as @SW15 mentioned Social Circles are critical of men even switiching gfs let alone using it for hookups.

 

[SW15]

use this beta provider vibe to your advantage. Sell them a dream . That's why I asked what type of women you chase. E.g ; with this nice guy vibe the Black, Latin and "rougher " white women wont react well to you. Similar like a black hoodlum chasing suburb white collar women. You gotta " know your lane" to maximize your succes rate.

Yes, there is a way to use a beta provider vibe to an advantage and sell women on a dream. This will typically happen with bougie/yuppie White women with bachelor's degrees or higher working white collar work jobs.

One of my friends did this better than many.

This is a 6'4" White male who was an NCAA athlete in a country club sport and has had solid white collar employment.

He was regimented about his pickup efforts. He would get semi-intoxicated his apartment, roll to the bars and arrive around 11:30 PM-12 PM. From that point, he would spam approach everything with a rather weak pickup line, and then roll out around 1:30 AM-2 AM (2 AM is closing time) with whatever woman was most into him that night. He was only able to get away with this due to being 6'4" and having a look that bougie, cookie cutter White woman find dreamy. He went to the bars in Dallas where bougie, cookie cutter White women tended to congregate. He never did any non-bar approaching and only dabbled in dating websites/apps.

My ex-college athlete friend was good at bar game and his opener was a joke compared to stuff you'd get from Roosh, Mystery, or nearly any other seduction guy out there. I only knew him as a post college ex-athlete in his 20s doing pickup in bars. He had below average verbal game but a decent overall look + height. He understood his target market well as he pursued bougie/yuppie White women in bars where bougie/yuppie White women congregated. He played a country club sport. It made sense that an over 6'0" guy with a white collar job and an ex-NCAA athlete in a country club sport would appeal to bougie White women.

While my friend had good bar and one night stand game, his actual relationship game was weak. However, he could sell that relationship dream and turn it into a one night stand while intoxicated based on his height and overall All-American guy look. Bougie, cookie cutter White girls ate that up big time.

He ended up marrying a White woman with some very serious red flags due to weak actual relationship game. However, he did put up a triple digit notch count prior to doing that.

OP already stated he doesnt do cold approach. Create your own style and approach the whole world. Talk to everybody.

That's a problem. He will need to start approaching strangers because he lacks a social circle and is not equipped to do well on the swipe apps or DM'ing on Instagram.

Also, Social Circle is not for hookups cos it will often blow up imo, as @SW15 mentioned Social Circles are critical of men even switiching gfs let alone using it for hookups.

Social circles do get pissed at men for switching girlfriends. You can probably get away with it one time if you do a 2 year long relationship that fails without marriage or kids. I've also seen guys get helped by their social circle after a divorce when the total relationship time was ~10 years. Over the long term, social circle is often not sustainable and not designed for even switching out medium term girlfriends, let alone shorter term arrangements.

 

[Stephen89]

You look fine. You don't look un attractive. Have your own style, perhaps lift weights.

 

[SW15]

While my friend had good bar and one night stand game, his actual relationship game was weak. However, he could sell that relationship dream and turn it into a one night stand while intoxicated based on his height and overall All-American guy look. Bougie, cookie cutter White girls ate that up big time.

Can you give a couple examples of how he "sold" it?

I would say that it was more of his overall marketing strategy.

Product is one of the 4 P's of Marketing (Product, Place, Promotion, Price). This guy was such a master of Product and Place that he didn't have to do anything in terms of verbal game. In fact, his verbal game was subpar in my judgment and average at best if you're a real optimist.

Product: He is 6'4" and was in good shape from his sport during his bar game heyday. He has basic White guy looks, not an ethnic White guy such as an Italian-American or a European/Middle Eastern Jew. He didn't go professional in his sport but used his athletic scholarship for a degree. He turned that degree into a solid job in a white collar field.

Place: Based on being 6'4" with good facial aesthetics and hair, he understood that his look would play well with bougie/yuppie, cookie cutter White women. He chose to go to bars in the city where bougie/yuppie, cookie cutter White women would go. Had he spent more time in bars with Black women, Hispanic women, or middle class and lower White women, his look would not have played well with those audiences. He picked the right audience. He tended to go to bars later at night when more women had been drinking. He would likely be the tallest guy to approach the woman that night. He ran spam verbal game with a weak opener until some woman bit on it. He also mainly approached shorter women. Mostly 5'0"-5'6" women. Despite being tall, he tended to avoid the 5'9"-6'1" women that he would be ideally situated for in terms of very good longer term prospects.

Shortly before closing time, he would get the woman to either take a shared ride service with him back to his place or walk back to his place. Then, he would bang.

Most of the time, these same night lays would not result in a 2nd bang. There were occasions where he did get a 2nd bang. Occasionally, he went out earlier in the evening and didn't get the same night lay, but set up a date for a future night and got either a 1st or 2nd date bang. Most of his game was designed around same night lays.

For the most part, most of his interactions ceased the morning after a same night bar lay or after 1-2 bangs from a date. He was actually better at getting laid from bar approaching and escalating for the same night lay rather than setting up a date and getting laid off of dates.

He ended up in getting into an LTR and later marrying a fit, short woman (older than he is) with some massive red flags after putting up this triple digit notch count after living that lifestyle I described from college until his late 20s.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I would say that it was more of his overall marketing strategy.

A lot of girls are looking for relationships but guys in here never learned how to be emotionally attractive or simp the right way.

 

[In2theGame]

View attachment 9254

Trying to figure out why I’ve been dry for two years now

I made some adjustments to your picture to give you a glimpse at what you can improve.

1. Remove the smile. It's ok to smile and laugh when appropriate but I have found that many Women like the serious edgy look. Just my experience.

2. Tan yourself up and tone your skin.

3. See what you look like with a tighter haircut or long hair.

4. Shades may look "Douchy" and Women "say" they don't like that but that doesn't stop the "douchy" guys from getting the panties wet now does it?

 

[In2theGame]

I made some adjustments to your picture to give you a glimpse at what you can improve.

1. Remove the smile. It's ok to smile and laugh when appropriate but I have found that many Women like the serious edgy look. Just my experience.

2. Tan yourself up and tone your skin.

3. See what you look like with a tighter haircut or long hair.

4. Shades may look "Douchy" and Women "say" they don't like that but that doesn't stop the "douchy" guys from getting the panties wet now does it?

View attachment 9272 View attachment 9273 View attachment 9274

For "fun", here's some changes with a full beard, clean shaven and if you ever had to do it, shave down bald.

 

[In2theGame]

Long hair and beard or Short hair and shaven would improve his look a lot in my opinion.

Would depend on what he was going for. IMO completely shaven might make him look too "boyish" but still could work for him.

 

[member160292]

For "fun", here's some changes with a full beard, clean shaven and if you ever had to do it, shave down bald.

View attachment 9275 View attachment 9276 View attachment 9277

What app is that?

 

[In2theGame]

What app is that?

It's called "FaceApp". I have an android so I'm not sure if it's the same for Apple.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

You look better without the beard lol

 

[RickTheToad]

Shave the neck. Dont worry about your height. Be irrationally self confident with yourself. You should be fine. Work on your game.

You quoted the wrong dude.

 

[Gamisch]

I made some adjustments to your picture to give you a glimpse at what you can improve.

1. Remove the smile. It's ok to smile and laugh when appropriate but I have found that many Women like the serious edgy look. Just my experience.

2. Tan yourself up and tone your skin.

3. See what you look like with a tighter haircut or long hair.

4. Shades may look "Douchy" and Women "say" they don't like that but that doesn't stop the "douchy" guys from getting the panties wet now does it?

View attachment 9272 View attachment 9273 View attachment 9274

That's amazing! I think the second photo is what @catsmeow2 suggested. It's in the middle, looks like a alternative dude with a edge who plays guitar but with a stable life.

All this with a simple app? Amazing time to be alife!!

Mods should definitely start a specific thread where dudes can upload profile pics and fellow members can change things. At some point you'll have all types of men; black white Asian Latin, arab ,young old fat, thin ect.

Inspirational post.

 

[Bokanovsky]

You kind of missed the point with that post of mine. Issues with alcohol and drugs are a huge problem in Russia, thus the reason why the life expectancy of a Russian male is much lower than that of a Russian female and almost 2 decades lower than a western male. The prevalence of alcoholism and drug use is at a level that we just don't see in the west. Both Ukraine and Russia also have an issue with HIV/AIDs because of injectable drugs. In the U.S HIV/AIDs is basically limited to gay men and drug users, plus more common in the black community, but in the general population occurs at quite low frequencies. When men are dying substantially younger than the women in these countries that in itself creates a shortage of men and a surplus of women, and that doesn't even factor in the alcoholic or drug addict men that are still alive lol. Yes, women can be alcoholics or drug addicts but these issues are more common in men than in women, no real debate on that.

Russia, as well as Ukraine and other eastern European countries, are expected to have a population collapse in the not-too-distant future as well. I highly encourage you to look up some demographic trends of the former Soviet bloc countries, it's pretty crazy to say the least.

This is a bit of an exaggeration. The average life expectancy for a Russian male is 67. The average life expectancy for an American male is 75. Both figures are as of 2020. That's a difference of 7 years, not 20 (and, with the opioid epidemic being out of control, I wouldn't be surprised if America's average matched Russia's within a decade or so). This means that the female-to-male imbalance would be primarily among retirement-age folks, not young people in their 20's and 30's. The idea that there are hordes of hot Eastern European women prowling around unable to find anyone to fvck because there are no men left is a myth (as Western sex tourists quickly discover).

 

[sangheilios]

This is a bit of an exaggeration. The average life expectancy for a Russian male is 67. The average life expectancy for an American male is 75. Both figures are as of 2020. That's a difference of 7 years, not 20 (and, with the opioid epidemic being out of control, I wouldn't be surprised if America's average matched Russia's within a decade or so). This means that the female-to-male imbalance would be primarily among retirement-age folks, not young people in their 20's and 30's. The idea that there are hordes of hot Eastern European women prowling around unable to find anyone to fvck because there are no men left is a myth (as Western sex tourists quickly discover).

Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia

I might have cited the incorrect age but there is still a 10 year gap between Russian men and Russian women in regard to their life expectancies. That's a substantial difference and implies that Russian men are dying at much younger ages. Most people in the U.S are not alcoholics or drug addicts, it's definitely a huge issue in certain parts of the country but not all. There is a county in I believe S. Daktota that has a life expectancy below 60, not entirely sure which one it is but it's essentially a native reservation and clearly drugs and alcohol are a huge problem there. This is definitely a trend in what would be considered the very poor parts of the U.S, West Virginia is a good example.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia

I might have cited the incorrect age but there is still a 10 year gap between Russian men and Russian women in regard to their life expectancies. That's a substantial difference and implies that Russian men are dying at much younger ages. Most people in the U.S are not alcoholics or drug addicts, it's definitely a huge issue in certain parts of the country but not all. There is a county in I believe S. Daktota that has a life expectancy below 60, not entirely sure which one it is but it's essentially a native reservation and clearly drugs and alcohol are a huge problem there. This is definitely a trend in what would be considered the very poor parts of the U.S, West Virginia is a good example.

Most people in Russia are not alcoholics or drug addicts either. It's important to separate fact from fiction (and outdated statistics). I did a quick search and it seems that alcohol consumption in Russia is down significantly compared to 20 year ago.

Russia's alcohol policy: a continuing success story

Russians are officially drinking less and, as a consequence, are living longer than ever before: life expectancies reached an historic peak in 2018—almost 68 years for men and 78 years for women—according to a WHO report examining the effects of alcohol control measures on mortality and life...

www.thelancet.com

Russia's current alcohol use stats are comparable to most Western countries and are actually lower than Germany, UK, France and a number of others.

Alcohol Consumption by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com