Am I okay looking?

[Divorced w 3]

It is mainstream normie advice to participate in co-ed sports leagues to avoid the bars and swipe apps.

I participated in 2 different sports in co-ed sports leagues, mainly in order to get my penis wet. One of the sports I actually liked (volleyball, see volleyball comments below), one I didn't like so much. I was disappointed in the mating outcomes from league participation.

Co-ed sports leagues can be considered a form of weak social circle game. They are not day game at all. It’s pretty difficult to swoop into a co-ed kickball, softball, volleyball, or soccer league & directly arrange dates. First, there are more men than women in all these leagues. Nearly every other guy in these leagues is an unattached guy who is trying to get his penis wet in league because he read some advice article online or in a printed copy of a magazine about doing this. The only exceptions are the men who join teams with their girlfriends or wives. You can make friends in these leagues but chances are that the other men need sex as much as you do. If you’re able to develop a social circle from a co-ed sports league, realize it will take multiple seasons of participation in the league. So you’d better actually like that sport because playing that sport is often the only benefit of it.

Volleyball: This is one of the better hobbies I have had over the years in terms of meeting women. I've not been that active in it for at least 5 years. Sand is better than indoor. I played in both volleyball leagues and random pickup games on weekend afternoons. I found that the random pickup games were better for arranging dates than the organized co-ed leagues around it. I had far more meaningful conversations when participating in random pickup games.

The biggest issue I encountered is volleyball were factors specific to me. I was a decent volleyball player due to my transferrable skills from tennis, mainly serving. However, I'm only 5'10". The best volleyball playing women are 5'8"-6'3". Women 5'7" and under are not all that inclined to randomly play volleyball as adults. While I might have a chance with the 5'8"-5'10" women at volleyball, the 5'11"+ women are very unlikely to consider me worthy of their time. While I enjoy volleyball, there are other activities I enjoy more. Volleyball isn't my best use of time for attracting-seducing.

If you're a 6'0"+ guy with a solid physique and decent volleyball skills, I'd recommend volleyball for pickup. I'd recommend sand over indoor. However, for the 6'0"+ guy with a good physique, I don't think that sand volleyball is any more efficient than swipe apps or randoming approaching at bars. That type of guy is going to have success in all formats. It's a matter of how much screen time he wants to put in on his smartphone vs. how much real life approaching he wants to do. I think it would be more fun for a 6'0"+ guy with sand volleyball skill to pick up women through volleyball than to sit on Tinder/Bumble/Hinge and swipe. It'd be a better use of time for that guy to play volleyball in terms of getting longer term relationships with higher quality women. That'd be the use case where I'd recommend volleyball over the swipe apps. It's a realistic scenario for a 6'2" guy to a get a 5'10"-6'0" volleyball playing girlfriend and that scenario has a better chance of lasting longer than flings with Tinderellas, most of whom are 5'6" and under.

nice post
i am 6'3....my best friend and i started a team together...and tbh i got the idea from the HB8 who got me wrapped up in her, who plays competitive sand volleyball...in NJ it's tough to get regular pickup volleyball but it is possible..

 

[member160971]

You are really either good at taking pics and hiding something or your personality/game is dog shvt. No reason for you to be two years in a dry spell.

If you are only pursuing ONS and not relationships, it absolutely is possible. Especially when you don’t have an established social circle from moving around all the time.

 

[Divorced w 3]

If you are only pursuing ONS and not relationships, it absolutely is possible. Especially when you don’t have an established social circle from moving around all the time.

just being devil's advocate here, but if you aren't taking the steps to control your weaknesses so to speak - the moving around, the lack of social circle - whose fault is that? this is head game pure and simple

 

[SW15]

@Donesimping probably has nothing in the way of a social circle capable of arranging introductions/dates for him.

Especially when you don’t have an established social circle from moving around all the time.

I was correct! I knew you didn't have a social circle. Men with social circle options don't tend to participate on forums such as SoSuave.

You make a good point about multiple relocations. I had multiple relocations during childhood and my 20s. I arrived in my current city in my late 20s. As I am now in my late 30s, I have been here slightly over a decade. I've had a good run of constancy in my current city but I still feel the effects of the multiple relocations that I had starting from elementary school until my late 20s.

In any city, the best social circles are the ones with the most people with deep local ties to the area. Getting into one of these social circles is difficult to do for transplanted adults. Most transplanted adults won't be getting into them or they'll be on the fringes of them. Some of these people with deep social ties in your area might be your co-workers but you won't be spending your leisure time with them. This is even more true in the era of increase remote work in the white collar space.

In my decade + in my current city, I've made friends but never developed a social circle capable of introductions. This is in part due to the past relocations. I was never strongly tied to any one geographic area. Even now, a decade + in an area, I still don't have strong local ties.

just being devil's advocate here, but if you aren't taking the steps to control your weaknesses so to speak - the moving around, the lack of social circle - whose fault is that? this is head game pure and simple

The moving around isn't his fault. His parents or one parent (divorced household) might have relocated him without him having a say in the issue. Any relocations done prior to when he became an adult aren't his responsibility at all. Childhood relocations weaken social ties and can have decades long consequences. His relocations as an adult are on him.

The lack of a social circle is tied in to his childhood relocations to some extent. The men with the best social circles are mainly geographically fixed men.

The man I know who has done social circle game best in his life is a man in his 40s who has lived in the same metro area for his entire life, with the exception of going away to a college a few hundred miles away from his childhood move. In this situation, you can give this guy some credit for not being a social outcast during his K-12 years in the same area that whole time. This guy built the foundation of his social circle in large part before he even reached puberty and reaped the rewards of it for decades to come. This is a guy who has done very little approaching of strangers in his life and has had multiple long term relationships. His biggest mistake was getting married to one woman from his social circle and that marriage ended in divorce. He quickly rebounded, getting married to another social circle introduced woman not long after his divorce. This is a guy with a decent amount of blue pill conditioning, but he hasn't had big relationship droughts. He has likely had not stellar sex frequency at times from doing LTRs/marriages. This was true while his first marriage was collapsing.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

This is bullshlt. I worked as a fashion photographer for several years, male models are photogenic, they look good even when constipated on the toilet. Whatever they do, they look good. Most of us don't have a model face to "put on".

girls literally do it all of the time with their angles, lighting, and etc. Also, not to be racist but cameras favor white people lol. They seem to always look better in camera than in person lol.

It's possible to be a normie and have a 2 year dry spell. Normies are having more and more dry spells. Twenty-six percent of Americans ages 18 and up didn’t have sex once over the past 12 months, according to the 2021 General Social Survey.

Yeah but most of the time it’s self inflicted or the guy is failing to put himself out in an open market lol.

 

[SW15]

guy is failing to put himself out in an open market lol.

I think the more common thing is that he's putting himself out in the wrong market. A guy who is in the bottom 80% of men is going to be invisible to women on swipe apps and yet a lot of those guys are swiping like crazy on Tinder/Hinge/Bumble.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I think the more common thing is that he's putting himself out in the wrong market. A guy who is in the bottom 80% of men is going to be invisible to women on swipe apps and yet a lot of those guys are swiping like crazy on Tinder/Hinge/Bumble.

He isnot ugly though lol. He is a slightly above average looking white guy in those pics, so just put a good haircut, style, and look on him and he's easily an 8. I would definitely not put him in the bottom 80% lol. I'm assuming he looks like his pictures though.

Actually, I know what his problem is....

He is in those difficult looks range between a 7-8. It's too good looking/too good to pull a 5 and below and he's not good looking enough to pull a 7 and above naturally. 6s and 7s are the most competed for women in the market, so he probably lacks the emotional game to compete with them. Any girl above a 7 is monetized or only goes for high value men.

My advice:

-Get a haircut and beard worked up- Low or high fade works on most heads
-Go to the gym 5 times a week, practice a good diet, do light cardio
-Put yourself out there aggressively on the apps, any social outings with friends, any chances that will put you in front of women
-Hold your nose and plunge 5s to get some positive experience in you. You might get lucky with a girl higher, but she will more than likely take you to the cleaners. Eventually, you will develop the game and aurora and start naturally attracting girls on your level and above.

Disclaimer: A 5 on my scale is still fvckable, but you wouldn't willingly show your friends her lol.

 

[SW15]

He isnot ugly though lol. He is a slightly above average looking white guy in those pics, so just put a good haircut, style, and look on him and he's easily an 8. I would definitely not put him in the bottom 80% lol. I'm assuming he looks like his pictures though.

No, he's not. Right now, he's probably around a 6. He could do some self improvement and get to a 7. He'd still be bottom 80% as a 7 in looks, if he didn't have money. It's not easy to get into that top 20%.

Actually, I know what his problem is....

Simping? Being beta?

 

[Gamisch]

When I was in high school and my early twenties I was a lot more open to having relationships. I had kind of a Disneyland fantasy about it for a while. Then I had several repeated nasty encounters where I got played badly and started getting into MGTOW. I’ve gotten over that phase pretty much and now just want ONS. When I deal with bull**** and don’t attain ONS my mental state suffers and I start posting threads like these. This has been the case for a while. A big issue behind it is not having a social circle due to being transient.

I tend to interact with girls randomly because I don’t cold approach often and hate OLD, and also have no consistent social circle as mentioned. The last several I’ve tried to lay have **** tested me and pissed me off. Either flaked on going out, used me for something else, etc etc. I could make another thread about it.

I think I need to work on not giving off the beta provider vibe so much as other have mentioned.

Or you use this beta provider vibe to your advantage. Sell them a dream . That's why I asked what type of women you chase. E.g ; with this nice guy vibe the Black, Latin and "rougher " white women wont react well to you. Similar like a black hoodlum chasing suburb white collar women. You gotta " know your lane" to maximize your succes rate.

He isnot ugly though lol. He is a slightly above average looking white guy in those pics, so just put a good haircut, style, and look on him and he's easily an 8. I would definitely not put him in the bottom 80% lol. I'm assuming he looks like his pictures though.

Actually, I know what his problem is....

He is in those difficult looks range between a 7-8. It's too good looking/too good to pull a 5 and below and he's not good looking enough to pull a 7 and above naturally. 6s and 7s are the most competed for women in the market, so he probably lacks the emotional game to compete with them. Any girl above a 7 is monetized or only goes for high value men.

My advice:

-Get a haircut and beard worked up- Low or high fade works on most heads
-Go to the gym 5 times a week, practice a good diet, do light cardio
-Put yourself out there aggressively on the apps, any social outings with friends, any chances that will put you in front of women
-Hold your nose and plunge 5s to get some positive experience in you. You might get lucky with a girl higher, but she will more than likely take you to the cleaners. Eventually, you will develop the game and aurora and start naturally attracting girls on your level and above.

Disclaimer: A 5 on my scale is still fvckable, but you wouldn't willingly show your friends her lol.

Great advice . Especially the 5 topic. Men dont wanna hear this , probably desensitized by porn and IG ect. But to be able to pull 7 and higher you gotta have solid game.


First of hats of to op for having the balls to post a picture and be open for feedback.

I wanna add the following advice; Hood knowledge.

Aggressively putting yourself out there and start cold approaching like you are Joe Carioca. A real horndog that needs female company. Women will respective man who is not ashamed of his own sexuality.

You have NOTHING to lose at this point. Its your life, yolo and all the cliches available . Imo a man must be able to say he did AT LEAST 1000 approaches in his life. Whether a big portion happened on high school, or as a successful 30 something years old doesnt matter. You gotta go through the trenches. If you refuse to do this you'll indeed end up with long dry spells, because life doesn't give you nothing. It's a man's world!

OP already stated he doesnt do cold approach. Create your own style and approach the whole world. Talk to everybody.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Great advice . Especially the 5 topic. Men dont wanna hear this , probably desensitized by porn and IG ect. But to be able to pull 7 and higher you gotta have solid game.

Yeah I hate how people just assume every girl to them is a 9 lol. Most hot girls you see or encounter in public are dolled up 6s and 7s with makeup after you remove your pvssy goggles. 8s and 9s are rarer and you will not find them in normal places because most of them are monetized haha.

 

[Gamisch]

Female chiming in.

If Pan87 were still here, we all know what he'd say.

Learn Game. Having good Game is everything, or almost, which includes the vibe/energy you project, your confidence, your look and style and knowing how to read a particular woman correctly and pounce.

Re your look, jmo but you could benefit from looking a bit "edgier." Less smiling, more stoic looking. My husband very rarely smiles even in pics. He has a great set of teeth, it's just his style, his overall demeanor.

I kind of like the lines around your eyes!! I showed your pic to two of my girlfriends and they agreed.

Why?

Since you have a bit of a baby face, they make you appear older, more masculine; it gives off a vibe that you dig the outdoors- rock climbing, mountain/desert biking, surfing, volleyball, typical masculine activities.

And that you're not some "pretty boy" who is obsessed with his looks, primping, diligently using moisturizers, getting facials, etc.

You're a man, rugged, virile and edgy.

I mean take Brad Pitt for example. He's got a bit of a pretty boy face too but he's edgy! His look, his style, his energy, his attitude.

He's got that IDGAF attitude about him and even without his money and fame, no doubt he'd be successful with the ladies.

Same with Leo DiCaprio, imo.

To achieve all this, you basically need one thing.

Confidence. Everything else will follow even Game. Because without confidence, Game will come off contrived and phony like you don't know what you're doing and following what you read in some book.

Use the great books (48 Laws of Power, The Rational Male, etc) as a guide, and tailor to your own style.

JMO!

How would you rate him ? From a female pov. (Please dont roast dude too much).

Haha yeah man I kinda miss Pan, although I do suspect he's posting with an alt account, or perhaps he is just heating up another forum.

By the way real life Brad is a Fcking simp. His looks dont match his game skills. But yeah ,fightclub actor Brad had the perfect attitude. Leo on the other hand...leo is a P.I.M.P

 

[kavi]

I think the beard is valueable as it will create a more mysterious, rugged and manly look and balance out the pretty book asthetic. This is why I advised to grow it out.

The nice guy vibe, attitude and confidence is definitely a thing and that is what is being reflected in the smiling and forward posture, aknowledging camera, wanting to be in-frame photo.

When taking photos and generally IRL its important to be either straight or slightly leaning back in terms of posture. Do not put yourself in the frame, but draw the frame towards you.

Also, Social Circle is not for hookups cos it will often blow up imo, as @SW15 mentioned Social Circles are critical of men even switiching gfs let alone using it for hookups.

 

[SW15]

use this beta provider vibe to your advantage. Sell them a dream . That's why I asked what type of women you chase. E.g ; with this nice guy vibe the Black, Latin and "rougher " white women wont react well to you. Similar like a black hoodlum chasing suburb white collar women. You gotta " know your lane" to maximize your succes rate.

Yes, there is a way to use a beta provider vibe to an advantage and sell women on a dream. This will typically happen with bougie/yuppie White women with bachelor's degrees or higher working white collar work jobs.

One of my friends did this better than many.

This is a 6'4" White male who was an NCAA athlete in a country club sport and has had solid white collar employment.

He was regimented about his pickup efforts. He would get semi-intoxicated his apartment, roll to the bars and arrive around 11:30 PM-12 PM. From that point, he would spam approach everything with a rather weak pickup line, and then roll out around 1:30 AM-2 AM (2 AM is closing time) with whatever woman was most into him that night. He was only able to get away with this due to being 6'4" and having a look that bougie, cookie cutter White woman find dreamy. He went to the bars in Dallas where bougie, cookie cutter White women tended to congregate. He never did any non-bar approaching and only dabbled in dating websites/apps.

My ex-college athlete friend was good at bar game and his opener was a joke compared to stuff you'd get from Roosh, Mystery, or nearly any other seduction guy out there. I only knew him as a post college ex-athlete in his 20s doing pickup in bars. He had below average verbal game but a decent overall look + height. He understood his target market well as he pursued bougie/yuppie White women in bars where bougie/yuppie White women congregated. He played a country club sport. It made sense that an over 6'0" guy with a white collar job and an ex-NCAA athlete in a country club sport would appeal to bougie White women.

While my friend had good bar and one night stand game, his actual relationship game was weak. However, he could sell that relationship dream and turn it into a one night stand while intoxicated based on his height and overall All-American guy look. Bougie, cookie cutter White girls ate that up big time.

He ended up marrying a White woman with some very serious red flags due to weak actual relationship game. However, he did put up a triple digit notch count prior to doing that.

OP already stated he doesnt do cold approach. Create your own style and approach the whole world. Talk to everybody.

That's a problem. He will need to start approaching strangers because he lacks a social circle and is not equipped to do well on the swipe apps or DM'ing on Instagram.

Also, Social Circle is not for hookups cos it will often blow up imo, as @SW15 mentioned Social Circles are critical of men even switiching gfs let alone using it for hookups.

Social circles do get pissed at men for switching girlfriends. You can probably get away with it one time if you do a 2 year long relationship that fails without marriage or kids. I've also seen guys get helped by their social circle after a divorce when the total relationship time was ~10 years. Over the long term, social circle is often not sustainable and not designed for even switching out medium term girlfriends, let alone shorter term arrangements.

 

[DonJuanjr]

However, he could sell that relationship dream

Can you give a couple examples of how he "sold" it?

 

[Stephen89]

You look fine. You don't look un attractive. Have your own style, perhaps lift weights.

 

[SW15]

While my friend had good bar and one night stand game, his actual relationship game was weak. However, he could sell that relationship dream and turn it into a one night stand while intoxicated based on his height and overall All-American guy look. Bougie, cookie cutter White girls ate that up big time.

Can you give a couple examples of how he "sold" it?

I would say that it was more of his overall marketing strategy.

Product is one of the 4 P's of Marketing (Product, Place, Promotion, Price). This guy was such a master of Product and Place that he didn't have to do anything in terms of verbal game. In fact, his verbal game was subpar in my judgment and average at best if you're a real optimist.

Product: He is 6'4" and was in good shape from his sport during his bar game heyday. He has basic White guy looks, not an ethnic White guy such as an Italian-American or a European/Middle Eastern Jew. He didn't go professional in his sport but used his athletic scholarship for a degree. He turned that degree into a solid job in a white collar field.

Place: Based on being 6'4" with good facial aesthetics and hair, he understood that his look would play well with bougie/yuppie, cookie cutter White women. He chose to go to bars in the city where bougie/yuppie, cookie cutter White women would go. Had he spent more time in bars with Black women, Hispanic women, or middle class and lower White women, his look would not have played well with those audiences. He picked the right audience. He tended to go to bars later at night when more women had been drinking. He would likely be the tallest guy to approach the woman that night. He ran spam verbal game with a weak opener until some woman bit on it. He also mainly approached shorter women. Mostly 5'0"-5'6" women. Despite being tall, he tended to avoid the 5'9"-6'1" women that he would be ideally situated for in terms of very good longer term prospects.

Shortly before closing time, he would get the woman to either take a shared ride service with him back to his place or walk back to his place. Then, he would bang.

Most of the time, these same night lays would not result in a 2nd bang. There were occasions where he did get a 2nd bang. Occasionally, he went out earlier in the evening and didn't get the same night lay, but set up a date for a future night and got either a 1st or 2nd date bang. Most of his game was designed around same night lays.

For the most part, most of his interactions ceased the morning after a same night bar lay or after 1-2 bangs from a date. He was actually better at getting laid from bar approaching and escalating for the same night lay rather than setting up a date and getting laid off of dates.

He ended up in getting into an LTR and later marrying a fit, short woman (older than he is) with some massive red flags after putting up this triple digit notch count after living that lifestyle I described from college until his late 20s.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I would say that it was more of his overall marketing strategy.

A lot of girls are looking for relationships but guys in here never learned how to be emotionally attractive or simp the right way.

 

[In2theGame]

View attachment 9254

Trying to figure out why I’ve been dry for two years now

I made some adjustments to your picture to give you a glimpse at what you can improve.

1. Remove the smile. It's ok to smile and laugh when appropriate but I have found that many Women like the serious edgy look. Just my experience.

2. Tan yourself up and tone your skin.

3. See what you look like with a tighter haircut or long hair.

4. Shades may look "Douchy" and Women "say" they don't like that but that doesn't stop the "douchy" guys from getting the panties wet now does it?

 

[In2theGame]

I made some adjustments to your picture to give you a glimpse at what you can improve.

1. Remove the smile. It's ok to smile and laugh when appropriate but I have found that many Women like the serious edgy look. Just my experience.

2. Tan yourself up and tone your skin.

3. See what you look like with a tighter haircut or long hair.

4. Shades may look "Douchy" and Women "say" they don't like that but that doesn't stop the "douchy" guys from getting the panties wet now does it?

View attachment 9272 View attachment 9273 View attachment 9274

For "fun", here's some changes with a full beard, clean shaven and if you ever had to do it, shave down bald.

 

[mikedee]

For "fun", here's some changes with a full beard, clean shaven and if you ever had to do it, shave down bald.

View attachment 9275 View attachment 9276 View attachment 9277

Long hair and beard or Short hair and shaven would improve his look a lot in my opinion.