Am I boring?

[StevenR]

I posted in the main forum last night, I was really depressed and basically told my life story as how it relates to women-

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=132915

My current situation is that i live in a city where hardly anyone knows me, so I don't have a huge social circle here. In the past I didn't have trouble making friends but here it seems to be more difficult for some reason. I am the kind of guy who tends to have a few really good friends as opposed to a huge social circle anyway. Most of the people around my age that I work with are married and have kids so that doesn't help.

Anyway, I have been trying online dating, I feel I come across as more outgoing and more the DJ attitude in my writing but am relatively bland and shy in person for some reason, at least at first. I am also a little overweight and am working on losing it at the rate of about 1 1/2- 2lbs per week right now,as well as working out at the gym. The photos I have are from when I hadn't gained weight due to depression, but I think in online dating you need really great photos or you can forget about it, and in my present shape I feel I don't have any really great photos but I don't look terrible either, I am talking more like a beer belly fat, not morbid obesity.

Anyway, I have met a few women in person and they tend to lose interest in me right away upon meeting. The first two it was obvious, the third one I thought there was at least some interest there. I spent the time to write a long summary of my last meeting, I was originally going to send it as a PM to someone but their mailbox is full so I thought why not post the summary in the forums for everyone but it is really long, if you don't want to read it right away feel free to skip the next three posts I am about to make.

In a nutshell, I feel I may come across as bland because I don't know them real well and will try to make small talk and I am not all that great at small talk anyway. It is sometimes awkward when I meet them to talk to them because I just don't know what to say sometimes. Sometimes it makes I feel I come across as a bland person when all I can say is "hey how was your day? Got any big plans this weekend? Whats up? Great weather we are having. etc. After that bring something up in their profile or what we talked about on email, ask them a question, but for some reason it takes me a little while to warm up and get going. This is usually the way that I start most of my conversations with these women upon first meeting.

 

[StevenR]

I try to talk about normal things that you would talk about with someone you hardly knew at all. For example, heres what happened in this most recent meeting still fresh in my mind. First meetings i have been making coffee dates at the local Starbucks type place. I show up a little before here and have a magazine to read, then I get up to go to bathroom and when I return she is in the door, and we recognize each other and she smiles and says hi and all friendly, the usual introductions. She asks if I am seated anywhere and I point out the table where I am at.

We sit down, I ask her is she wanted anything(she drove further then I did). She said she didn't drink coffee, asked if she wanted tea, she said she only wanted water. Get up to get coffee for me and water for her and the line is like 15 people long, so I don't want her sitting there doing nothing when she didn't seem to want anything anyway, so I said screw this and went and sat down and explained to her about the line and asked how she was doing. continued on message two due to length...

 

[Mechwarrior13]

There is no way to tell from a computer...but if have been able to make SOME friends you can't be that bad I guess.

 

[StevenR]

She asks me about the magazine i was reading and I describe the article I was on, something from the Economist about Google become too big and powerful, etc. , then I think of what next to say and of course there is an odd pause(she was really attractive which made me even more nervous). She even mentioned at that time I wasn't too talkative and I told her it sometimes takes me a few seconds to warm up, and she sorta jokingly said it is more than a few seconds, apparently she already thought I was shy from the get go.

She then asks me how long I have been on the personals and I tell her since August. She explains she has been on for a year but she hasn't met anyone she feels compatible with yet. Then I ask what she likes to do around here, try to get the convo going and gather info on where to plan a second date. She mentions pool, so I relate that I play pool with my brother occasionally, she ask me what I like to do around here. I mention that I like to go hiking in the Sierras(which is true, in spite of my weight, just when you burn 1000 calories and eat cheescake afterward they kinda cancel each other out).

I describe a few of the hikes I have been on and she is not familiar with any of them. I then ask her if she has been on any hikes and she describes climbing the halfdome in Yosemite, and at that point things seemed to get going a little better, she seemed excited to describe her experience and I related it to what a friend told me about climbing the halfdome. She then tells me about a hike to a waterfall she did and I ask her if she hiked back at night and teased her about some stuff. Then I described a hiking experience in Washington I had last summer and joked about some stuff that made her laugh(which I thought was a good sign if you can make a girl laugh), and toward the end my sense of humor that I am much better at portraying online or with someone I know really well started to come through even though there were still some brief pauses in the convo.

I also asked if she looked at my photos that I took on that particular hike and she said she hadn't had time. I encouraged her to take a look but didn't make a big deal out of it. I talked about her major in college(cultural anthropology), and got her to describe what it was and what she liked about it, which I thought was good. And various other stuff. I asked here about her work and made some sort of compliment saying that sounds like a good position, etc. and she reacted like if I was BSing her and I told her jokingly well I have to say something.

Then I remembered reading somewhere in one of these seduction articles that on a first coffee date the guy should end it first, and I decided I didn't want to continue and ruin what I thought was good rapport, so the next pause in our convo I told here I needed to meet a buddy of mine at 6:00 and had to go. I walked her out to her car and we said a friendly goodbye and stuff.

So that was that date, was I too nice, should I use some of David DeAngelo's ****y and funny stuff on her? My problem is I have to be in the right mood to be like that and I have been depressed for awhile and combine that with the initial nervousness of meeting I cannot bring myself to do that and come across as natural, especially when I really haven't practiced it much. So I really have no clue how to come across as a super charismatic don juan and totally sweep her off her feet in the first five minutes, maybe get more comfortable with these first odd meetings, I dunno.

Do girls really expect a guy to act all alpha DJ and say, as that song goes, exactly the right thing at exactly the right time? Isn't there any slack at all for a little inhibition or shyness at first meeting? Apparently not in her case. It is alot of pressure on a guy to act perfect especially when he doesn't know what the criteria for what perfect is, but I guess that is what this site is for. Or maybe she just thought I was fat and ugly and nothing I could have said could have changed it at all.

Other factors, I did shower that morning, brush my teeth, etc. I did have fresh clean clothes on, I was dressed a sort of nice casual with blue jeans and a nice dress/tshirt, which was pretty much how she was dressed as well. Other then that I don't know unless my eye tic acted up and she noticed it.

As far as IOI's, my experience with the other ladies who were not interested is that they were not really into talking to me more than short sentences and answers, they looked around the room and not at me, had uptight body language, and generally looked like they were thinking of an excuse to get out of there and it was pretty obvious to me so I just let them go if they didn't want to be there(and realized I needed to lose weight).

However, with this girl she was friendly,smiled, and laughing and stuff. However, what she did not do, she did not touch me, she did not suggest another date or talk about stuff we could do in the future together, which from my experience in the past are obvious signs of interest. She was sort of in between but I thought it was because she was just a little more shy about her intentions since her disposition to me wasn't typically negative, after all, she laughed at my jokes. So much for the old saying if you can make a girl laugh.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

She asks me about the magazine i was reading and I describe the article I was on, something from the Economist .....

:yawn:

 

[joekerr31]

ok i only had the patience to read the first post.

guys, use paragraph breaks. when everything is just one big long connected paragraph its hard on the eyes to keep reading.

but from the initial text that i read, i think you have two major things going against you. it sounds like you are an introvert and it sounds like you are somewhat depressed.

this is how ironic life can be... you say when you meet these women they seem to lose interest in you really quickly. and yet, you also say that you have a hard time making chit chat with them.

dude, do you not see what is going on here?!!!!!!

they meet you, you're mr. quiet, then they think you aren't interested in them! so ya, they then lose interest in you quickly. and you don't even realize that their reaction is actually a response to what they perceive as you rejecting them!!! women think that if you are attracted to them that their mere presence will excite you (becuase this is how women are with men). so when you dont get excited at all, they see it as rejection.

anyway, like most normal guys who have trouble with women, the trouble actually isn't women but rather introverted / depression. you don't sound like you are pumped about life, and so much of success with women is about being pumped about life.

remember, women look at a man and think 'do i want to spend the rest of my life with this guy?". they won't decide that right away, but that's how they are evaluating you as time goes on. whereas us guys just think 'is she hot enough for me to bang?"

so a guy who is introverted / depressed, most women are going to lose interest fast. you gotta be pumped! it doesn't mean you have to be loud or frenetic. it just means you have to like yourself, like life, and be excited and positive about the future.

 

[StevenR]

Francisco, it doesn't sound like you are a big fan of the Economist. I wasn't reading it to impress her, I was reading it because I had some time to kill. It really is a good magazine, much better then Time or Newsweek.

I know I am depressed, I am working hard to change it now but I am not there yet. Being overweight I found made me more lethargic and depressed as well and I decided I just didn't like being overweight, regardless of whether or not I am still attracted to women. I like being active and I miss being active so hopefully doing more activities and losing the extra weight will help somewhat.
I also forgot to mention the obvious outcome of the last date, I called her on monday, 2 days later to ask her out again and she apologetically told me that she was "just not feeling it" with me and thought that I felt the same way because I ended it. I left it at that and wished her good luck. It is really difficult for me to fake a mood I am not in, if I try I am sure it comes across as fake so the only thing I can see to do at the moment is not even bother to date at all and work on myself and try to make some more friends around here.
One more thing, I have also been diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder, whether you believe in it or not one thing that has happened in my life is that I used to be more extroverted as a kid I think. But someone with ADD doesn't always think about what they say before they say it, and I got into trouble often interrupting people, especially adults, and saying inappropriate or impulsive things without really thinking about it, then offending people. This has conditioned me to be more reserved until i get to know someone better.

 

[joekerr31]

of course its hard to fake a mood. it is for all guys (women do a better job at it!).

which is why, to be honest, right now i dont think you should be focusing on women. i think you need to focus on getting your depression under control and feeling good about life.

my suggestion to you (take it or leave it, its up to you) is to go to teh book store and get 3-5 books on how to enjoy life.

i just went on amazon and found five books you could order (i havent read these, but why not give them a shot anyway)...

http://www.amazon.com/Dantes-Cove-C...-1957444?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1193189259&sr=8-12
http://www.amazon.com/What-Happy-Pe...1957444?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193189364&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Now...1957444?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193189364&sr=8-3
http://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Now...1957444?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193189364&sr=8-3
http://www.amazon.com/Dantes-Cove-C...-1957444?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1193189259&sr=8-12

you need to get your head straight, if only temporary, before you start dealing with women. depression is the number one killer in a relationship - especially with older women (they've dated depressed guys in teh past and know how the story ends).

a woman would rather date a total arrogant *sshole jerk than a depressed guy. the reason being is that at least hte jerk is ready to have some fun.

its an unfortunate reality of this world, that the people most in need of love are the ones most ignored. but theres nothing we can do about that other than become a better man! and not so others will want us, but because its a better way for us to live.

 

[Bunk 040]

:yawn:

LMAO

 

[iqqi]

Lol, beautiful paragraph breaks!

OK. I have some thoughts on your date, but am hungry, so about to run and get food before I start on my now usual netbiz-maintenance/simultaneous-sosuavery routine.

Meanwhile, besides just reading GREAT posts here, read some "case histories", lol.

Start with this guy Stormbringer, who as of a few weeks ago hadn't been on a date in years, and now is banging two chics.

Read this first

Then read some of his posts after that, start with the next one up from the previous post I started you on. Work your way up, and see if anything clicks for you at all.

Other posts by Stormbringer.

 

[iqqi]

a woman would rather date a total arrogant *sshole jerk than a depressed guy. the reason being is that at least hte jerk is ready to have some fun.

its an unfortunate reality of this world, that the people most in need of love are the ones most ignored. but theres nothing we can do about that other than become a better man! and not so others will want us, but because its a better way for us to live.

Good advice also. Not always true, but mostly, and more importantly... healthily! Is that a word?

 

[MrLuvr]

Lol, beautiful paragraph breaks!

OK. I have some thoughts on your date, but am hungry, so about to run and get food before I start on my now usual netbiz-maintenance/simultaneous-sosuavery routine.

Meanwhile, besides just reading GREAT posts here, read some "case histories", lol.

Start with this guy Stormbringer, who as of a few weeks ago hadn't been on a date in years, and now is banging two chics.

Read this first

Then read some of his posts after that, start with the next one up from the previous post I started you on. Work your way up, and see if anything clicks for you at all.

Other posts by Stormbringer.

You are holding up the example of a 34 year old guy who is dating a 38 Year old woman with a KID?!

Lol. That is major AFC.

Unless you meant to say don't be like this guy. At his age, he should be dating prime, never married, childless mid 20s women. Not some washed up 38 year old with a kid. Even 50 yr old guys would think twice about that.

You give terrible advice.

 

[iqqi]

^^ you are retarded.

 

[STR8UP]

Women don't care about the weather. they don't care about the news. they don't care about what you did last thursday.

Women are about "stimulation".

If you're lucky you get one who you can click with easily. If not you gotta put out a "trot line".

Know what that is?

My grandpa used to be a passionate fisherman. Except he wasn't the type to stand there and cast an artificial lure time and time again hoping he could fool one fish every now and then.

No, he was the type of guy who would use live bait and put three different lines in the water at the same time. And when he was REALLY hungry for catfish he would put out a trotline, which is basically a string that has a dozen or so hooks that you bait and string from bank to bank, increasing your chances of a catch tenfold. I think if gramps could have gotten his hands on dynamite, well, I can only imagine.

Point is, if you don't find something that you can run with soon into a convo, you need to throw out a trotline. You need to pick up the tempo and touch on several different POTENTIALLY EXCITING topics and see which one gets a nibble or a bite.

At that point you have found something that can hold her attention span and hopefully use it to build rapport to where you don't have to struggle so much to keep her "entertained". And yes, unfortunately you DO have to entertain most women in the beginning, even if it's just eliciting emotion with ****y/funny convo.

 

[StevenR]

You are holding up the example of a 34 year old guy who is dating a 38 Year old woman with a KID?!

Lol. That is major AFC.

he is going 2 for 2, my score since I tried to start dating again is zero for 3 unfortunately. If I include all the women online I sent emails to, a few wrote me, I contacted a bunch and maybe got 1 of 8 to respond back(but then I was going for a bit younger). Of those I have exchanged email about 8 or so, met 3 of them so far and bombed all three times, including with the latest 32 year old HB9 with no kids and her own house. Okay, I am depressing myself again.

Point is, if you don't find something that you can run with soon into a convo, you need to throw out a trotline. You need to pick up the tempo and touch on several different POTENTIALLY EXCITING topics and see which one gets a nibble or a bite.

At that point you have found something that can hold her attention span and hopefully use it to build rapport to where you don't have to struggle so much to keep her "entertained". And yes, unfortunately you DO have to entertain most women in the beginning, even if it's just eliciting emotion with ****y/funny convo.

This sounds like an interesting technique that I never heard of before. Is there any more info about it somewhere? I thought I was doing something similar when I ask them questions about themselves and what their interests are. Is there a generic list of potentially exciting topics one of which should elicit a response, or is it too individual and I have to probe her interests or take shots in the dark to find out what will excite her?

 

[guru1000]

Once you stop caring about impressing the woman and more about amusing yourself, the tables turn. From the second you meet the girl, you set the stage. Without different thinking, your interest level is very noticable. Judging from your thought process, you wreaked desperation. She saw it. That tells her you can't do better. Instant dead deal. I dont know about you, but I do get turned off when a girl shows EXTREME interest on the first date. It make me think something is off with her. And I'm a Man. Men don't mind that, they want sex. Imagine how a woman whose sex drive is not like ours feels about your desperation.

Simple eliminate desperation by not caring about the outcome. Do no look for a second date. I dont believe in ending a date abruptly simply because that action is done as leverage. Leverage means you truly wanted a good result. That in itself shows emotion to the outcome. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Have character but be emotionless to the result. Eliminate desire.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Hey StevenR, we all go through 'stages' in our lives where we question things a little too much. We sit around and think, if I only had this..i'd be happy, if I could only get up and do this, things would fall into place.

I'll second Joekerr's advise.

It sounds like, to me, you have less enthusiasm about life in general and believe that if you met a woman, then you'd be happy.

The problem with this is that you place your center of happiness, your being, on the woman. She then becomes your source of happiness.

Guess what? Women, I believe, can sense this...and subconsiously, you are putting a lot of pressure on them. Not to mention, if you did get into a relationship right now 'per se', and it ended, you'd be worse off than you are now.

I think you ought to not focus on women right now, and focus on yourself. Pursue life goals, work on achieving something that you want for yourself. Once you get focused on something, other than women, you will be amazed at how things start to 'fall into place' again.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Once you stop caring about impressing the woman and more about amusing yourself, the tables turn.

Yes, I was going to say the same thing. Steve, what would you be doing for fun without a woman? Whatever it is, take a woman with you, and you will be a fun guy.

And you obviously are putting work into all of this and getting better at it, so good for you. Just by understanding body language, I think you put yourself ahead of the majority of guys. Sometimes it takes a lot of work before you start getting girls, but when success comes, it is like a dam breaking, you get a lot all at once. Just because you have not had much success yet does not mean that you are not at least on the right track and improving, so don't get discouraged. Also keep in mind that your value on the dating scene goes up with time as a man, and for women, theirs goes down with time. That's why those girls are so quick to make hasty judgments about you; their attractiveness goes down a tiny bit more every day, so they have to be in a rush to find a man. Time is on our side.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Francisco, it doesn't sound like you are a big fan of the Economist. I wasn't reading it to impress her, I was reading it because I had some time to kill. It really is a good magazine, much better then Time or Newsweek.

As quite as it's kept, I do read the Economist and I agree that's it's better than most of the mainstream media. However, the way that it's marketed it's definitely for a certain type of thinker. Given that, when it's referenced it can either perk the interest of that subset of society or make people inadvertently give you that empty, long distance stare.

Frankly, you'll get more of the latter from the typical person on the street.
Knowing this, it's your job (if you want to make people feel that you are an interesting person) need to present it in a manner that is exciting and engaging. This in turn will present yourself as exciting and engaging. Does this fold into impressing someone else? OF COURSE!!! Impressing others isn't a bad thing if you are genuinely impressive and being able to convey the content of The Economist in an interesting manner is very impressive.

 

[Phyzzle]

being able to convey the content of The Economist in an interesting manner is very impressive.

Isn't The Economist is that magazine where governments often advertise for deputy directorships of their various agencies - but purely as a formality before they hire the political crony they were going to hire in the first place?

Sounds interesting!