Addressing The CWAF's Biggest Fear - Cheating

[BeDJ]

Of course boundaries can be crossed. That is when you dump her. In your case it was still a mid relationship boundary.

That was emotionally crippling for me, but I patiently waited a week later when she visited her family. I secretly moved out all my things and got a new place while she was away. I left her a 'thanks for the memories' video and a bottle of Skyy vodka.

 

[TheException]

In my experience, even if boundaries are in place, she could very well cross them if she perceives her SMV is higher than yours. For example, my ex was dating this guy right before me and I told her to not talk to him again or our relationship could not move forward. All fine and dandy. Skip ahead years later, I gained weight, had little friends and unemployed. She became friends with said guy again, and started hanging out with him, even when I told her I disapproved and made it clear. One night she came home with puke all over herself after hanging out at his house with his room mates. It was the most rage-inducing sh!t I have ever experienced in my life.
/vent

Once a woman perceives her SMV is higher than her partner's, she will continue to test the waters on how far she can cross the boundaries. Once she does that, she has already checked out of the relationship and finding potential suitors for a branch swing. Her partner becomes disposable. The advantages of being in a relationship with a disposable partner is what you can get away with.

And this is exactly right. Boundaries only mean sh1t when attraction is high.......HOWEVER.....when attraction is high, boundaries are not necessary. Your gf will comply on her own, for fear of losing you.

So boundaries are actually counter-intuitive. They dont work when attraction is low, only when attraction is high. But they also decrease attraction because it is needy and over protective and your gf will wonder if you really are as high value as advertised before going exclusive.

Off topic, what does CWAF stand for?

Stands for a guy who Constantly Worries About Fidelity. These men are chumps at their core who think women cheat every single time given the opportunity. They always seek to think of ways to "prevent" a woman from cheating.

 

[Alvafe]

@ BeDj

and only exception use this CWAF thing.

@peaks

even if they are good actress a good nice and well placed question or afirmation can throw then off for a second or 2. I did this sometimes with a girl who could lie looking inside your eyes, and she was proud to tell me one time she is a good lier(a really nice thing to be proud off....)

thing is when I make the question like she was not hoping she would drop her face with something like "how the **** you guessed?" and she tried to deny it after but that was pretty late already.

and that is what Danger is saying, he toss his price at her and see her reaction to it, but also it don't means he didn't screen her before,

and peaks your way is you don't tell your boundary because you have already defined it in your head, you don't tell her what she already know she do anything you disaprove you will leave.

so both are ok and working for each one, save for some really naive views here, peaks and danger are pretty much the same in diferently ways.

 

[JoeMarron]

And this is exactly right. Boundaries only mean sh1t when attraction is high.......HOWEVER.....when attraction is high, boundaries are not necessary. Your gf will comply on her own, for fear of losing you.

So boundaries are actually counter-intuitive. They dont work when attraction is low, only when attraction is high. But they also decrease attraction because it is needy and over protective and your gf will wonder if you really are as high value as advertised before going exclusive.

Question, do you have experience with setting boundaries resulting in a chick loosing attraction or are you just theorizing and mentally masturbating all over the thread? These guys aren't just pulling thing's out of their ass. What you speak of concerning boundaries is a direct contradiction to the experience of many men here.

 

[The_411]

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst applies here. It was mentioned in the otehr thread and it still applies. When you make investments in things you make sure you have insurance/hedges/etc to protect against loss.

You buy a stock you don't put all of your eggs in one basket unless you are willing to cut your losses and walk away. You diversify to hedge risk.

When you buy/rent/lease a house you get renter's insurance in lieu of being uninsured not because you expect something bad to happen but to hedge against being out thousands of dollars.

So when you know that divorce is more likely a result than a marriage continuing and that's even assuming you are interest in a long term result why in the world wouldn't you protect yourself by either walking away from a bad investment, or diversifying by having multiple investiments (spinning plates).

Oh and if you CWAF you're already done for. Preparing for a woman to possibly cheat is not the same as being worried and in fact it's the opposite. You've already given up on the worrying part by realizing that it's on her. She cheats and you're gone. What's to worry about there? You can't control her choices.

 

[dasein]

And this is exactly right. Boundaries only mean sh1t when attraction is high.......HOWEVER.....when attraction is high, boundaries are not necessary. Your gf will comply on her own, for fear of losing you.

Once more, women are not men. Their interest level is capable of vacillating back and forth constantly to a much greater degree than a man's is IME, and hovers around a mean in a similar way to daily prices fluctuating around a moving average on a stock chart. Dogs and cats, dogs love you every minute, cats could give a f sometimes and love you "forever" others. The boundaries can have some useful prevention effect like a shock collar to keep a cat from clawing the furniture, have experienced it, have experienced the consequences of not having them. Mostly they make my life easier and cut certain types of drama off at the knees, make things more clearcut, foreclose certain fights and annoying endless talks. If they don't want the boundaries, fine, we can stay unexclusive. That's the way I like things anyway.

 

[TheException]

Question, do you have experience with setting boundaries resulting in a chick loosing attraction or are you just theorizing and mentally masturbating all over the thread? These guys aren't just pulling thing's out of their ass. What you speak of concerning boundaries is a direct contradiction to the experience of many men here.

Hey pal......why do you recognize only one of the two side's "experience"? There have been plenty of guys to give their experience saying that boundaries do not work. Dont become irrational simply because you disagree.....you can re read through the thread and find plenty of people who voice a difference of opinion and give their experiences.

Once more, women are not men. Their interest level is capable of vacillating back and forth constantly to a much greater degree than a man's is IME, and hovers around a mean in a similar way to daily prices fluctuating around a moving average on a stock chart.

You fail to be able to acknowledge that a woman's "mean interest level".....can still be high. Sure she can fluctuate between very high and high, but if you are trying to claim that every woman's interest level fluctuates between "high interest" and "low interest"....I vehemently disagree.

Boundaries are a filtering mechanism. If her IL is high she will comply, and you now have a clear method for identifying red flags.

I understand, however its a bad filtering mechanism because the "boundary" itself is flawed. I am not debating whether boundaries are good for filtering or not.....I agree......but this boundary of "no other male contact" is a pathetic one. A woman with high interest and with no desire to cheat may still "balk" at this boundary because she has several male friends from class, hometown, work, etc that she genuinely likes. This is what im getting at with the CWAF crowd.....women are not like men. We men....have a tough time being platonic friends with women. Women do NOT have a tough time being platonic with men. He11....why do you think the term "friendzone" was created?

My issue is that you are fearing something, that is not reality. Its not like a potential gf is out partying every weekend or going on multiple 1 on 1 dates and then asks for exclusivity.....if this happens to you, she should be denied. But often times a woman will date you "exclusively" before being labeled as such. She will drop ALL OTHER MEN on her own because you are the best and she no longer has interest in other potential suitors. Therefore the boundary is A)not necessary because she should have dropped all other threats by now anyways if she is serious and B) it shows your insecurity. Do I ever get jealous? You bet.....but I have gotten very good at quickly dismissing it because I know its just an "unfound fear". Men should never give voice to their insecurities let alone display them vividly to a woman.

The CWAA's, Constantly Worried About Attraction (see I can make them up too).

I cant tell if you are denying that interest level, attraction, and frequency of sex is the gold standard barometer of a healthy relationship or not. Everything in LTR game comes down to attraction level. Period.

Healthy relationship = high interest level from woman

These are men who have very little SMV or no confidence in their SMV. As a result they will readily commit to women who have strange men over to their house for some "quiet" study time together. We KNOW this is Exception's mentality because in his attempt at insulting me for not being married he said with boundaries one would still not be married while at the age of 40. This is the voicing of his scarcity mindset that he will not find a marriage partner.

Quit embarrassing yourself......your trying to make two students working on a class project sound like their 69ing on the kitchen table. If you find that unacceptable....you are worse off than I realized and seeing that you keep wanting to make this an issue, it appears that way. Maybe I should have been there to supervise to make sure they get an "A".

I feel bad for your girlfriend. Shes probably walking around in constant fear that you will disapprove of her for saying hi to the neighbor.

There is something deliciously ironic about a 23 year old marriage mentality kid calling men chumps while a strange man is back at his apartment with his gf "studying" alone together. Using the typical shaming mechanism no less so the women can do whatever they wish with no visibility or consequence.

Since when is having a "marriage mentality" so deplorable? So every man on this forum who wishes to get married someday and raise a family is a chump?

Dont be so butthurt simply because either you dont believe it feasable....or you yourself have been robbed the opportunity to do so by Father Time.

 

[JoeMarron]

Hey pal......why do you recognize only one of the two side's "experience"? There have been plenty of guys to give their experience saying that boundaries do not work. Dont become irrational simply because you disagree.....you can re read through the thread and find plenty of people who voice a difference of opinion and give their experiences.

I have yet to see one person who said that they set this boundary at the beginning of the relationship that resulted in a loss of attraction. You guys are not only saying that a boundary against 1 on 1 male company is unnecessary but that it lowers attraction. Others are saying that it doesn't relate to their experience. The burden of proof is on you to show that boundaries against 1 on 1 male company lowers attraction.

A woman with high interest and with no desire to cheat may still "balk" at this boundary because she has several male friends from class, hometown, work, etc that she genuinely likes. This is what im getting at with the CWAF crowd.....women are not like men. We men....have a tough time being platonic friends with women. Women do NOT have a tough time being platonic with men. He11....why do you think the term "friendzone" was created?

Yes, men have a tough time being platonic friends with women. So what does that say about a women who purposely hangs around men who want to bang her? Your girl, lets take it further and say your wife, the mother of your children is purposely hanging around men who want to fvck her brains out. How in the hell do you not see this as a problem? People have known this sh!t was a problem for thousands of years. Not only is it disrespectful, not only is it foolish, but it's just plain dangerous. There are plenty of women out there who have been raped or worse because they put themselves in a compromising situation. There is absolutely no reason why a woman in a relationship needs to spend one on one time with another man.

Quit embarrassing yourself......your trying to make two students working on a class project sound like their 69ing on the kitchen table. If you find that unacceptable....you are worse off than I realized and seeing that you keep wanting to make this an issue, it appears that way. Maybe I should have been there to supervise to make sure they get an "A".

I feel bad for your girlfriend. Shes probably walking around in constant fear that you will disapprove of her for saying hi to the neighbor.

Danger keeps bringing that up because it's utterly asinine that you don't see a problem with it. Why couldn't they study in the library or another public place? I'm assuming your girl is attractive which means her classmate most likely wants to fvck her. Why didn't you screen for a chick who has the wisdom not to leave herself alone with a dude who most likely wants to fvck her? What happens when she gets a classmate who's more alpha than you that wants to "study" alone with her? Are you gonna let your wife and the mother of your child hang out alone with strange men who want to fvck her? Switch it around and lets say you were studying alone with a hot chick who's into you. Let's say she's much hotter than your girlfriend, let's say she's exactly your type. It would be perfectly reasonable for your girlfriend to want a man who has enough sense to never put himself in that kind of situation. That's what this is all about. Screening for a woman who you don't even need to be the top alpha 24/7. Screening for a woman who regardless of what her interest level is, wouldn't ever put herself in a compromising situation, and has enough respect for you to not be alone with men who want to pump their seed into her.

 

[VikingKing]

I think the exception wants what he says to be true, its a way to protect is ego, and rationalize his gf's behavior. It really seems like you put her on a pedestal.

Don't get me wrong, its great to have a loyal girlfriend. But it's always the punch you don't see coming that takes you out.

Its when you trust her the most that she will betray you.

But whatever man. Believe what you want, why is it so important for you to justify it on here? Why do you feel the need to change peoples minds?

Why don't you accept your relationship is probably going to be temporary, and enjoy it for what it is now. You should never fully trust a woman, but it sure sounds like you trust your girlfriend way to much.

 

[DonGorgon]

Here is the reality of the cheating issue:

Humans cheat. both males and females cheat. the problem of roost men his that most women have far more opportunities to get random sex anytime and cheat since there are 15 men chasing for every women out and willing to Fvck.. So a man who is a 7 in looks cannot keep up with a woman who is a 7 on looks so since the female has more option she has more empower and can more easily discard the man than he can discard her...lol

The average woman has a few men him her life for different things and she pays them all with different amount os sex:

1. husband
2. boyfriend
2. side guy
4. male best friend
5. sugar daddy
6. fvck buddy 1
7. fvck buddy 2
8. random guy she meets every day and thinks is hot enough to F immediately

unfortunately the worst guys to be on that list are her husband and her boyfriend those two guys usually invest the most time and money and get the least sex and have to deal with the most BS and drama form her and they also usually get the most disrespect form her.

I try hard as hell to avoid ever being the boyfriend an i will not marry till I'm 80...lol.. I have a GF now but only cause she begged me and she provides enough sex and benefits to where its worth to me too give her that title an keep her around...

Men need too accept this reality and stop fighting it an trying to change it... you cannot stop a human female from cheating so it best to just work with it and work around it .... all i focus on on his how she treats me and how she fulfills my needs and contributes to the relationship.

You have to be indifferent for the to work and so a relationship like marriage that requires true deep lobe is actually a bad idea for any humans still young enough and belie enough too chase sex...lol so i will marry only when I'm cover 70 years old lol

 

[zekko]

Is this thread still going on?

Yes, men have a tough time being platonic friends with women. So what does that say about a women who purposely hangs around men who want to bang her? Your girl, lets take it further and say your wife, the mother of your children is purposely hanging around men who want to fvck her brains out. How in the hell do you not see this as a problem? People have known this sh!t was a problem for thousands of years. Not only is it disrespectful, not only is it foolish, but it's just plain dangerous. There are plenty of women out there who have been raped or worse because they put themselves in a compromising situation. There is absolutely no reason why a woman in a relationship needs to spend one on one time with another man.

I wanted to quote this for truth ^^^
And I like that last line. There is absolutely no reason why a woman in a relationship needs to spend one on one time with another man.

I completely agree with this too. But setting a boundary like the one I mentioned will not reduce attraction. It simply never has for me. When your value is high enough you need not worry about such things.

I had to chime in here too, and say that I've never experienced a loss of attraction when I've set the boundary either. Of course, I've only set it with what I perceived to be high quality women, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered even considering them for exclusivity.

It's no surprise to me that it's the younger guys here who seem to have the biggest problem with this "boundary setting". It's a matter of maturity here, I think, which is related to lifestyle:

First off, the younger guys haven't had time to overcome the feminist brainwashing that they've heard all their lives. All that bit about insecurity and jealousy. When I was a young man, I was the same way. I didn't want to be called jealous or insecure so if a girl had male friends I figured I just had to sit back and take it. Only when I got older and more mature did I realize it was all BS and that I could do what I wanted. And curiously, rather than losing attraction, I gained value as I got older, and could demand the kind of behavior I expected.

Secondly, I think that as women get a little older, a lot of them learn that these opposite sex friendships aren't really what they appear to be.

I do think that it is possible for men and women to be friends. But I also think that such truly platonic relationships are very rare. I've had female friends, but later found out that they harbored feelings for me. And we all know the opposite happens.

Here's a YouTube video that has often been posted here, demonstrating how girls have these male friends. But when pressed, they admit that they realize that these guys either have a crush on them or want to bang them. "Why Men and Women Can't Be Friends":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

When you understand h ow to read women as you lay the boundary, you will know who is sincere and who is not. That's how you filter them.

This point of yours is irrelevant once you know how to read the reaction of women to your price. Do you play poker Peaks?

You're saying men can't tell if their women just banged another dude (in your 10 man statement). But they should be able to tell if the woman's sincere about hanging out with men one on one in the future? And, my point, what if they are sincere about not wanting to hang out with other men, because they don't want to at that moment.....but change their mind as soon as they run into one of those other men?

When she asks me for exclusivity while hanging out one-on-one with other men, I lay out my price.
When she asks you for exclusivity while seeing other men one-on-one. Your process is to delay until she no longer does one-on-one with other men? Or is there more to it?

That's basically it. You should know. You should be able to gauge her interest. You should, by that time, have a feeling of most important people in her lives, and where they stand with her. If you aren't sure about her, then you wait to commit until you are. If she's still going out on dates, looking for other men to replace you, then that's a bad sign obviously. Hangs out with bestie guy friend she's known for 10 years....I don't care.

Have you never been the guy one-on-one with another bf's girl and fvked her?

I have been the other guy.

I had to chime in here too, and say that I've never experienced a loss of attraction when I've set the boundary either. Of course, I've only set it with what I perceived to be high quality women, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered even considering them for exclusivity.


It's no surprise to me that it's the younger guys here who seem to have the biggest problem with this "boundary setting". It's a matter of maturity here, I think, which is related to lifestyle:

First off, the younger guys haven't had time to overcome the feminist brainwashing that they've heard all their lives. All that bit about insecurity and jealousy. When I was a young man, I was the same way. I didn't want to be called jealous or insecure so if a girl had male friends I figured I just had to sit back and take it. Only when I got older and more mature did I realize it was all BS and that I could do what I wanted. And curiously, rather than losing attraction, I gained value as I got older, and could demand the kind of behavior I expected.

Secondly, I think that as women get a little older, a lot of them learn that these opposite sex friendships aren't really what they appear to be.

I do think that it is possible for men and women to be friends. But I also think that such truly platonic relationships are very rare. I've had female friends, but later found out that they harbored feelings for me. And we all know the opposite happens.

Here's a YouTube video that has often been posted here, demonstrating how girls have these male friends. But when pressed, they admit that they realize that these guys either have a crush on them or want to bang them. "Why Men and Women Can't Be Friends":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA

I hear you zekko on the younger guy thing, I'm not sure if has as much to do on social conditioning but maybe more to do with where they're at in their lives.

Also, how do you really know if telling a woman not hang out one on one with other women didn't lower their attraction, then or later on?

That's a good video, I've never seen it before. But that brings to light one of the main issues of this whole thing. Guys think that men and women can't be friends, while the women think they can.

One way to handle this is to set a boundary, like you guys are suggesting.

I've gotten all of your sides points "pounded in to my brain", and I realize WHY you feel the need to set a boundary.

And, there are different ways to go about setting the boundary.

Zekko: I won't go exclusive with anyone who hangs out with other guys one on one
Danger: I can't take you seriously with all these other men around you.

Once the time comes, does this need to be said though?

Well what happens when a bukowski(in his olden days) or a Danger shows up?

From rascals, bukowski's, and BeDJ's examples, you can't tell her then to not see him. So the boundary needs to be set from the beginning......

Makes sense.


However (you knew that was coming), when you are saying: "I can't take you seriously with all these men around" are you still saying: "I don't like these other men around you. I will not go exclusive if you hang out with other men" Is this what the women are hearing? Is that reasonable. Remember, they are not logical. You can tell them one thing, even text it to them, so they have it in word for word format, but that does not mean they will interpret it word for word. The chick's brain works in mysterious ways, and they will hear one thing, and think something totally different. At times, their hamster brain will screw up even the simplest of logical thinking.

So.....if you say: "I can't take you seriously with all these other men around you"

Can she interpret it as: "He won't go exclusive with me until I ditch these other men. I need to get rid of these other men so I can go exlusive with him" or "He's jealous of other men?"

No, on the latter response? That's fine, for now, please keep reading.



Then....what happens later on down the road, when orbiter friend asks her if she wants to get coffee, or dude from work offers to take her out to lunch for "a job well done." She will have to turn them down. She's going to start thinking about it, as women always do.

Whether she wants to hang out with these other guys or not, is futile at this point. She can't hang out with them. Why? Because her boyfriend would break up with her. So.......in her mind: my boyfriend doesn't want me hanging out with other men one one.

Is that what you want your woman to be thinking and telling people. If she says that to only one person, what is that one persons response going to be?

"Does he get jealous easily?" or "Is he worried that you will cheat on him?"

Her response: I would never cheat on him!
One person: Then why can't you hang out with other men?
Her response: He just doesn't think it's right.
One person: That's strange (from a today's society stand point) Is he controlling? Insecure?

and so on.....


Sooner or later she's going to think that you fear her cheating. That you are jealous....insecure. Maybe not right away but she will start thinking it eventually.

Then....forbidden fruit time boys.

To add to this, what happens when she tells her orbiters she can't hang out with them anymore because she's with you:

“My boyfriend told me I’m not allowed to hangout with you anymore.”

Always resulted in sex soon after. That “always” is not an understatement. 100% of the time - when I heard those words – it was followed soon after by sex.

I thought it was just my experience. The highest indicator that she will cheat is her saying "My BF doesn't like us hanging out." That's the highest buying sign you can ever receive. By her saying that relieves the guilt that 'one thing led to another' and at the same time puts her in a position to cheat.

Two respected posters who have no reason to lie or make ^this up.

The writing's on the wall gentlemen.

 

[zekko]

I hear you zekko on the younger guy thing, I'm not sure if has as much to do on social conditioning but maybe more to do with where they're at in their lives.

Yeah, I think very young adults are more likely to travel in packs and such, deal with very casual relationships, break off into splinter groups, and experience more of these opposite sex "friendships" without maybe realizing their true nature. And that's not even getting into the current "hookup culture". A girl around 20 is probably not the best choice for an exclusive relationship these days, for a number of reasons.

Also, how do you really know if telling a woman not hang out one on one with other women didn't lower their attraction, then or later on?

Well, it's not like I tell a different woman this every week, it has to be a woman I would consider an exclusive relationship with. I laid a boundary with my girlfried 10 years ago, I think if her attraction had been lowered, I would have noticed it by now. Before that, the last exclusive relationship had been with my now ex-wife, and she came into it believing that opposite sex friends caused trouble, so I didn't have to lay any boundary with her. We saw eye to eye from the beginning. That's going back 20 years just there.

That's a good video, I've never seen it before. But that brings to light one of the main issues of this whole thing. Guys think that men and women can't be friends, while the women think they can.

Yeah, but check out the women's faces when they get "caught" and have to admit that their "friendships" are really shams. They knew they were being pedestalized by these guys and were getting off on the attention. It goes back to what Joe Marron asked awhile back: Why do these girls have to hang around one on one with guys who want to fvck them?

Now, regarding bukowski merit's and BeDJ's statements about what happens when the girl says her boyfriend doesn't want her to see them:

I think you are seeing the boundary as the CAUSE of her cheating, when it clearly isn't. In fact, the boundary has been set too late (in mid-relationship, like Danger said). If anything, she is using this statement to let bukowski or BeDJ know that she is attracted to them, by saying that her boyfriend has noticed it.

A boundary MAY have prevented this from happening, if she was following it. And the point of the boundary is filtering for a woman who won't object to it because she sees the sense in it. Because see what happens when you hang out with these guys? Without the boundary, you've already established that she can hang out with other males. If now you suddenly object to her seeing bukowski, then you have the scenario he is talking about, and boom you're a cuckold.

Of course, sometimes a woman is just going to cheat, in which case oh well then, she just has to be nexted.

 

[VikingKing]

7 pages!!!! Lets make it 14!

 

[zekko]

You will find as you get older just how much women throw themselves at the older guys. You may see it now, but that is nothing compared to experiencing it. Your value will only continue to grow over the next 12 years if you live life properly. You honestly will be *shocked* at how it gets even easier to pickup girls and fvk the taken ones.

As someone who has also experienced how much women respond to older men, I wanted to quote this before the thread runs out. Because I know from some past discussions there are some guys on this site who don't believe it. They think that girls view older men as "creepy", or that even if they do date them, they don't want to be seen with them, or whatever. They think girls only want guys in their own age group.

I think the fact is that it depends on the guy. If it is a high value guy, I can pretty much guarantee that a girl will not care how old the dude is. I don't mean my age so much, I'm admittedly on the downhill slide here, I mean more like your 30s and even your 40s. But I'm cosigning with Danger on this - the only caveat is that you have to build your value. But once you do it's a whole new ballgame.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

I laid a boundary with my girlfried 10 years ago, I think if her attraction had been lowered, I would have noticed it by now. Before that, the last exclusive relationship had been with my now ex-wife, and she came into it believing that opposite sex friends caused trouble, so I didn't have to lay any boundary with her. We saw eye to eye from the beginning. That's going back 20 years just there.

Now zekko, I'm asking this because you've already acknowledged it, and this is in the name of science: What happened with your ex wife? How did that one end?

I think you are seeing the boundary as the CAUSE of her cheating, when it clearly isn't. In fact, the boundary has been set too late (in mid-relationship, like Danger said). If anything, she is using this statement to let bukowski or BeDJ know that she is attracted to them, by saying that her boyfriend has noticed it.

A boundary MAY have prevented this from happening, if she was following it. And the point of the boundary is filtering for a woman who won't object to it because she sees the sense in it. Because see what happens when you hang out with these guys? Without the boundary, you've already established that she can hang out with other males. If now you suddenly object to her seeing bukowski, then you have the scenario he is talking about, and boom you're a cuckold.

• These were places mid-relationship. We have already said this at least five times. Of COURSE that was going to happen. Boundaries are to be placed at the onset not in the middle of a relationship.

• 
  You and zekko are saying the same thing here. But, in those instances, how do you guys know when those boundaries were set? You're assuming they were all set mid-relationship. That's why I made this post: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2152413&postcount=84
  
  I didn't want to jump to any conclusions, which I didn't. You'll see later what I mean, when I re-ask the question.
  
  Well, let's pretend all those boundaries were set mid-relationship, like is assumed. Fair enough, I'll give you guys that one. Moving on.
  
  So, Danger, you've been with your gf for "3 months". Time to pop the boundary "statement". And even though you've been with her 3 months, how she reacts to this one statement will tell you more about your gf than all of your other experiences and conversations with your gf, up to this point, combined.
  
  Okie-dokie, continuing. So lets say, in your eyes, she passes that brutal tell-all statement. Considering you're a face reading expert, and can see into her brain, you will know exactly what she's thinking by the one expression on her face. Well, she agrees and passes your test. Hooray!! Now, you two are a happy, hunky dory, boundary abiding couple. Things are good.
  
  Now, I will ask this again. What is she supposed to say to her current orbiters and or guy friends? You told her that she can't hang around them now that you two are exclusive. How is she supposed to get rid of them?
  
  

  “My boyfriend told me I’m not allowed to hangout with you anymore.”
  
  Always resulted in sex soon after. That “always” is not an understatement. 100% of the time - when I heard those words – it was followed soon after by sex.

  I thought it was just my experience. The highest indicator that she will cheat is her saying "My BF doesn't like us hanging out." That's the highest buying sign you can ever receive. By her saying that relieves the guilt that 'one thing led to another' and at the same time puts her in a position to cheat.
  Do

  You've just fvcked yourself in the A$$.
  
  What is she going to say to any old flames who are passing through town and want to meet for an "innocent" cup of coffee? What is she going to say to any future invitations from new guys? What is she going to say to work colleagues?
  
  "My boyfriend......."
  
  You're fvcked pal.
  
  
  

  Lastly, this point proves what we have been saying all along. Those are not "harmless orbiters". She keeps many of them there for future potential fvking. Any woman who is unwilling to give these up is obviously unworthy.

  Going backwards. You and Pairs have adopted this mindset that Women readily fvck their orbiters and guy friends. Where in the fvck is this coming from?
  Check out Rollo's latest blog post, this might give you some insite on that age old myth, he calls it Purgatory: http://therationalmale.com/2014/05/20/purgatory/
  
  But, on that note, I do believe there actually is a way to get out of the friendzone. It's rare, but there is one way. The boyfriend must place higher value on you, than himself.
  
  Think about that one for a minute.
  
  I think we just figured the age old mystery on how to get out of the friendzone: Wait for her to go exclusive with someone that won't allow her to see you.

 

[zekko]

Now zekko, I'm asking this because you've already acknowledged it, and this is in the name of science: What happened with your ex wife? How did that one end?

This isn't something I care to think about, although I have discussed it on this forum before. But long story short, at a certain point she seemed to go a little crazy, and started picking fights with me. Some people theorized that she was starting to go into menopause, even though she was only in her mid 30s. So we started fighting all the time and couldn't get along. My part was I let her p!ss me off, that was my big mistake. I hadn't read any PUA material, and didn't know about nonreactivity.

You've just fvcked yourself in the A$$.

What is she going to say to any old flames who are passing through town and want to meet for an "innocent" cup of coffee? What is she going to say to any future invitations from new guys? What is she going to say to work colleagues?

"My boyfriend......."

You're fvcked pal.

Speaking for myself, I don't care what she tells them. She can make some stupid excuse, she can go no contact on them, she can be all low interest with them until she gets the hint, or she can tell them her boyfriend is a jerk, I don't care.

You're implying that if she says "My boyfriend doesn't want us to hang out together", then that means she will bang the guy. But in Bukowski and BeDJ's cases, the girl was already hanging out with these dudes anyway, so the attraction was already there. It seems clear to me at least that by the time she says "my boyfriend doesn't want us hanging out anymore", they've already got her hooked. It's not that the boyfriend or the boundary is the cause of the attraction.

Anyway, as I said before, if she cheats, she cheats. Sometimes that's going to happen, and there isn't always something you can do about it. People change.