About marriage

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Ok @AmsterdamAssassin I perhaps should have chosen billionnaire Warren Buffet, also married, and for decades to the same wife.

Perhaps you should have, yes. Frankly, since your son and DIL seem to be a shining example of matrimony, I'm surprised that you mention them in the same breath with Trump.

Your politics dont matter, billionnaires are high status, high value men by any standard.
It was not a political comment. If there are billionnaires who see value in it, then that says something.

I don't like Trump, but not because of his populist politics. Trump has been a loathsome toady con man for a long time and not really a role model for young Americans, nor are his marriages an example of the sanctity of holy matrimony. Calling the man a perverted sexual swine is an insult to pigs.

There has never been an unmarried US President in history. So I'm not making this up.

Let's not talk any more politics here. My dislike for Trump and his philandering ways have nothing to do with his defilement of the Oval Office.

I'm perplexed why pointing this out seems to bug you.

I'm fully aware of what the 'elite' gets up to, but despite your exalted view of the rich and famous, few of them are an advertisement for marital bliss. So, I wasn't 'bugged', I was rather flabbergasted why you are trying to point out that if you want to be accepted in snobby circles, you better have some trophy wife hanging from your arm.
Even if that trophy wife is Ghislaine Maxwell. Oh, wait, Epstein and Maxwell hobnobbed with the elite without being married. Didn't seem to affect their membership to the country clubs much.

 

[BeExcellent]

Lol. My view of the rich & famous is not exalted. However men who have unlimited options, there must be reasons these men choose marriage over debauchery or some other alternative. My political views are counter to yours to say the least but we must leave that aside. So let's get back to civil discourse. I have a personal friend (a very close friend from college of my best girlfriend) who is in private equity and has a net worth of over 100M. Private yacht, 40M home in San Francisco, other residences, etc. His marriage spiraled into depravity and imploded. His ex wife from his college days travels the world whoring about as she pleases and is as entitled and materialistic as they come, although she is remarkably beautiful, she is a vapid person.

He has done the retire, travel the world, bang beautiful women thing and yet he found no fulfillment in that and he knew the girls were interested in his money as much or more than him (he's handsome and sophisticated) and he's embraced a LTR with a conservative woman with high moral stands who would not put up with his bad playboy behavior. He might marry her, he will certainly stay in an LTR with her.

Why? Because connection matters. Quality relationship matters. And back we circle to marriage as a vehicle for intimate connection and bonding.

 

[BaronOfHair]

However men who have unlimited options, there must be reasons these men choose marriage over debauchery or some other alternative

As has been mentioned earlier on this thread and elsewhere on SS:

-Marriage to a gal who would've, at one time in the not too distant past, been a Maxim cover girl


-Snagging a spacious home with two new/newish cars in the driveway

-Having the income required to keep it all going + Travel out of state or/and internationally at least twice a year

Are traits which signify that a man is doing well, both personally and professionally. Oddly enough, this also seems to be the root of so much of The Manosphere's opposition to getting serious amending the ways in which our divorce and family courts operate...

All those traits can be viewed as "normie stuff", and for most of it's history, The Manosphere has defined itself as existing separately from the rest of society

 

[davidsonj73]

Lol. My view of the rich & famous is not exalted. However men who have unlimited options, there must be reasons these men choose marriage over debauchery or some other alternative. My political views are counter to yours to say the least but we must leave that aside. So let's get back to civil discourse. I have a personal friend (a very close friend from college of my best girlfriend) who is in private equity and has a net worth of over 100M. Private yacht, 40M home in San Francisco, other residences, etc. His marriage spiraled into depravity and imploded. His ex wife from his college days travels the world whoring about as she pleases and is as entitled and materialistic as they come, although she is remarkably beautiful, she is a vapid person.

He has done the retire, travel the world, bang beautiful women thing and yet he found no fulfillment in that and he knew the girls were interested in his money as much or more than him (he's handsome and sophisticated) and he's embraced a LTR with a conservative woman with high moral stands who would not put up with his bad playboy behavior. He might marry her, he will certainly stay in an LTR with her.

Why? Because connection matters. Quality relationship matters. And back we circle to marriage as a vehicle for intimate connection and bonding.

@BeExcellent or anyone else who knows the answer: What if a billionaire who made his money on the stock market wanted to remain single, but wanted to enter into business deals with married billionaires, would his being single hurt him in the business world?

Also, I wonder how common it is among billionaires to be in an open marriage, and how does one go about legally setting up an open marriage?

 

[BeExcellent]

As has been mentioned earlier on this thread and elsewhere on SS:

-Marriage to a gal who would've, at one time in the not too distant past, been a Maxim cover girl


-Snagging a spacious home with two new/newish cars in the driveway

-Having the income required to keep it all going + Travel out of state or/and internationally at least twice a year

Are traits which signify that a man is doing well, both personally and professionally. Oddly enough, this also seems to be the root of so much of The Manosphere's opposition to getting serious amending the ways in which our divorce and family courts operate...

All those traits can be viewed as "normie stuff", and for most of it's history, The Manosphere has defined itself as existing separately from the rest of society

There are lots of men here, in the Manosphere, in the population at large (normies, elites, etc.) who simply wish to acquire sufficient skill to meet, date, lock down and in many cases marry a woman who would be compliment to his life.

This idea that she's got to be a Maxim model when he's a balding middle manager with a 10 year old Japanese car is ridiculous. Yet there are guys like that who manage to marry & have families, usually with a woman near their own age & SMV.

Many men who used to be here have grown as men, acquired the skillset/mindset and gone on to find a fulfilling marriage. Members like Colossus, Atom Smasher, Von, and many others. They get what they need, grow to a point where they can attract a suitable girl AND lead the relationship, and they depart this place to get on with life.

And if many of the guys here met a really great girl? They'd lock her down too in many cases. Nothing wrong with that.

The guys who say she's got to be beautiful and exceptional etc. when the guys don't bring similar value to the table are delusional. They are either socially awkward, unwilling to address their own lack of value, and complain loudly that marriage stinks and its not worth it. It's their failure parading as an excuse.

Then you have the once bitten, twice shy guys who already got burned in a divorce, and that I can understand. But sometimes these guys are bitter and assume all women are bad like their ex wife. That's not accurate either.

You gotta learn to lead fellas. Lead yourself, your life, your relationships. Many marriages that do not start out transactional & are based in love are casualties to a failure to lead by the man. Transactional marriages also require leadership.

Failure to lead results in poor outcomes. Good leadership is to me the single most important skill men, especially young men. And there are too few mentors for guys to learn from.

What sets my son apart? He can lead. At 21 he is a better leader than many men far more seasoned in life than he is. His leadership is what creates that sense of trust, respect and security in his wife. Her love for him is strengthened by that. Love grows from respect and trust....and leadership.

Learn to lead guys. Many of these fears will be minimized by strong leadership. That & you'll learn to seek out better women as your leadership skills develop.

 

[BeExcellent]

There are various ways to set up a relationship on your terms @davidsonj73 but its best to have the character to be honest and transparent about that.

And understand that you'll lose some quaility women by setting those parameters as not every lady will go along with something

The uber wealthy that I know personally are in monogamous relationships of some sort. I know plenty of doctors, lawyers, business people who are married etc. as well.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Many men who used to be here have grown as men, acquired the skillset/mindset and gone on to find a fulfilling marriage. Members like Colossus, Atom Smasher, Von, and many others. They get what they need, grow to a point where they can attract a suitable girl AND lead the relationship, and they depart this place to get on with life.

The modern man is desperately seeking community with fellow men. This has been well-documented, looooooooong before The Manosphere existed

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=absent+fathers+lost+sons&i=stripbooks&adgrpid=128397169426&hvadid=664596293949&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9010955&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5880067304137379035&hvtargid=kwd-329998289244&hydadcr=28789_14754666&tag=hydsma-20&ref=pd_sl_4pkhciqil8_e

Why Very Intelligent Men Fail with Women

The Ten Reasons Why HIGHLY INTELLIGENT Men Fail With Women... AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT...

www.sosuave.com

One does have to wonder how well those fellas you mentioned are doing today, after going off the grid

 

[BaronOfHair]

There are lots of men here, in the Manosphere, in the population at large (normies, elites, etc.) who simply wish to acquire sufficient skill to meet, date, lock down and in many cases marry a woman who would be compliment to his life

Brings to mind a few words I heard awhile back, between 22:00-25:00

Which can be adapted for our purposes here:

What would constitute "progress" for modern men? Fewer of us being on the margins of society and on the lowest rungs of the socioeconmic ladder, and more of us attaining lives which are upper middle class-All points above. More of us becoming solid candidates for marriage and fatherhood, if we so desired, in other words. Which is the exact opposite of what we have throughout large segments of The Post-Industrial World today

Violently homophobic as much of The Manosphere is, their opposition to what I just described is actually very similar to 70s Gay Liberation's hostility towards agitating for the right of homosexuals to marry, have kids, and move out of The Bowery and into suburbia... Both sneeringly dismiss such things as "Normie Stuff", while mistaking being a permanent social outcast for authenticity

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

So let's get back to civil discourse. I have a personal friend (a very close friend from college of my best girlfriend) who is in private equity and has a net worth of over 100M. Private yacht, 40M home in San Francisco, other residences, etc. His marriage spiraled into depravity and imploded. His ex wife from his college days travels the world whoring about as she pleases and is as entitled and materialistic as they come, although she is remarkably beautiful, she is a vapid person.

So, a rich and intelligent person married a vapid model and got burned. Marrying this woman was a mistake, yes? An LTR might have exposed her without him having to go through an expensive divorce.

He has done the retire, travel the world, bang beautiful women thing and yet he found no fulfillment in that and he knew the girls were interested in his money as much or more than him (he's handsome and sophisticated) and he's embraced a LTR with a conservative woman with high moral stands who would not put up with his bad playboy behavior. He might marry her, he will certainly stay in an LTR with her.

So he found a new woman, but hasn't wifed her up yet. Maybe he's a bit more wary of entering into a legally binding contract with another woman because his first wife screwed him over. And if this new woman cares about him, she will probably be satisfied with an LTR without a marital contract.

The thing is, just because someone doesn't want to enter into a legally binding matrimonial contract, doesn't mean they are averse to LTR. I'm not into monogamous relationships, but I'm not denying the attraction of LTRs, I had several myself.

All we're saying here, is that matrimony is more beneficial to women than to men, so a lot of men will want to examine the ramifications of marriage over a non-legally binding LTR. If you love each other, you don't need a marriage certificate.

So, back to the question of this thread: what benefits does marriage have over LTR, especially for men?

 

[Divorced w 3]

On his 5th marriage, after four pricey divorces. Moral of the story: Wifing up a broad or several is a swell idea, once you're rich enough to afford them

He just became the first felon president .. related to charges covering up for his mistress

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Being legally married?
Meh... Thanks but I'll pass..

 

[BaronOfHair]

He just became the first felon president ..

The first CONVICTED felon (Ex)President. Trump's hardly the first occupant of The Oval Office who's committed crimes, nor will he be the last. Frankly, it's tough to envision anyone rising to high office in The US WITHOUT doing so

 

[BaronOfHair]

So, back to the question of this thread: what benefits does marriage have over LTR, especially for men?

A beautiful wife, a ritzy home, kids, + Having an income which can keep it all going while still having cash left over signifies that a guy is doing well, both personally and professionally. Appearance and PR matter, vehemently as we moderns yearn for the world to be an immaculately egalitarian and meritocratic Shangri La

Even wealthy bachelors are seen as semi-outsiders among their fellow upper classmen, subsequently end up not enjoying the level of social connections married men in this same socioeconmic bracket do

 

[BaronOfHair]

It only benefits the system (other people) for a man to be married in 2024.

What "system", and what "other people"? I can only infer that you're not just referring to divorce lawyers and family court judges here

 

[Divorced w 3]

The first CONVICTED felon (Ex)President. Trump's hardly the first occupant of The Oval Office who's committed crimes, nor will he be the last. Frankly, it's tough to envision anyone rising to high office in The US WITHOUT doing so

It’s not our fault you chose to highlight the absolute worst example humanly possible to support your argument. A third grader could have debunked that.

Stick to the facts.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

He just became the first felon president .. related to charges covering up for his mistress

The first CONVICTED felon (Ex)President. Trump's hardly the first occupant of The Oval Office who's committed crimes, nor will he be the last. Frankly, it's tough to envision anyone rising to high office in The US WITHOUT doing so

Remember political conversations is strictly forbidden on SS and will get you banned.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Remember political conversations is strictly forbidden on SS and will get you banned.

Nothing I said is political - he factually is a felon related to paying off his mistress - and he factually is being held up as a bastion of the virtues of marriage in a thread about marriage.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Nothing I said is political - he factually is a felon related to paying off his mistress - and he factually is being held up as a bastion of the virtues of marriage in a thread about marriage.

Its a political trial/court case - Dems persecuting their biggest rival - everyone knows it... - so yes its political.

Claiming that it is not political is just pure bs...

It also has nothing related to do with the thread topic of "Marriage".

 

[Divorced w 3]

Its a political trial/court case - Dems persecuting their biggest rival - everyone knows it... - so yes its political.

Putting it aside, is having a mistress a nonissue when perpetuating the ideals of marriage?

 

[BeExcellent]

To respond to @AmsterdamAssassin about the couple who divorced:

They were a very attractive young couple, college sweethearts. They were both upper middle class backgrounds. He was extremely ambitious and was driven to financial success at any cost. Honestly he can be a major ass hole. Major. She got tired of his tirades and became a super b itch to deal with his being such a d ick. Things devolved from there & she realized that the ticket to escape him being such a d ick was to get away from him via divorce and take $$$$ as compensation for 30 years of being stuck with a nasty person that required her to be trapped at home (he insisted she not work).

So she didnt start out vapid & was never a model, lol.

He can be an entitled ass, I've seen it.

They have relatively well adjusted kids who have both completed degrees at upper eshelon universities.

Marriage can be beautiful. It can also be ugly, depends on the people in the marriage. Theirs was particularly ugly. Let's put it this way, he is attractive looking, sophisticated and very rich. No way I'd have dated him (and he made effort in that direction a few years back)...nope. I know too much about who he *really* is. No thank you. And his ex wife is ruined in my opinion, having become an awful version of herself along the way.