About marriage

[Divorced w 3]

Marriage is a supportive legal contract and also a religious ceremony. The large majority of people will mistakenly merge the two concepts together. Those of us who have been down that road before likely won’t see it the same again. I don’t think that in the absence of great personal sacrifice, including but not limited to forgoing professional success to start or support a family, one should have to make financial commitments to the other, or any other commitment that they don’t mutually feel necessary.

 

[BeExcellent]

To @davidsonj73 I agree with you. My son and his wife are best friends and adore one another. She gushes that my son is "the love of her life" and they both are excited about children. I would bet I become a grandma soon. She sews and did the alterations for her bridesmaids ahead of the wedding, she cooks & bakes (a few days after the wedding she sent my sisters and I pictures of her first attempt at sourdough bread, using my father & grandmother's recipe - it looked exactly right & my son said it was delicious)....and she cleans and the thing I most like about her is that she looks to my son to lead and guide her; she actively seeks that.

When they were in high school I sent my son to work on the landscaping at one of my rentals. It had gotten too overgrown for my elderly renter to fool with. He asked if his now wife could go with him to help. I said sure, but I expect the work to get done. They packed up the necessary tools and walked together to the property. Several hours later I swung by in the truck to pick them up.

Here is what impressed me. My son had set up division of labor and assigned tasks. He was doing the trimming and she was cleaning up after him as he went. They were chatting amongst themselves and working together as a harmonious team. The yard looked beautiful. That was years ago now. They continue in this way. He leads but does so with careful consideration of her and benefit for them as a couple. She trusts in and defers to him to do this. And therein lies the secret, in that trust.

So I believe they are as set up for success as they can be.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Then don't marry. But understand that the vast majority of worthwhile women will require marriage to keep a relationship....

So when you are left with the crazy ones nobody wanted to marry, don't ask me why.

Come up with one valid argument for why a man should legally marry a chick these days which is beneficial to the guy and not just for the woman.

I'm quite sure you cannot name one.

For chicks there is tons of incentive and are the real winners of that legal arrangement. But for guys - just a bunch of big "L's" for them.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Y'all think too much. Just enjoy them while you can

You're woefully out of touch with modernity, D. Overthought is the way of the future; Lucidity was mistaken for a virtue by aristocratic White men during The 1800s. Lindy West and her ilk

Educated us on the error of our ways many moons ago

 

[Ricky]

When did you decide this? Did I miss a thread? What happened?

You are joking right lol. He discussed it at length. And people were really critical of him.

I tried to be supportive because believe i get it.. its not an easy decision.

 

[Ricky]

My son married last weekend. He commissioned two weeks before that. He and his wife are Catholic and all those benefits are going to be of great value as they get going in life together. He is an outlier, no doubt. Wonder where he learned that?

His grandfather was a military officer and Air Force Academy grad. His grandmother (my first MIL) was a military wife, homemaker & mother. She was Catholic too and was only ever sexually involved with her husband....lost her virginity on her wedding night. My son had a great example in our family and he found a great gal to build a life with.

I've been frankly very impressed with the priest (good looking young man around 35) and the pre-marital counseling the church requires prior to marriage. There are still those who take it seriously. And the priest made a point to tell his father and I how solid my son is. It was a nice compliment.

Congratulations!

 

[BeExcellent]

Come up with one valid argument for why a man should legally marry a chick these days which is beneficial to the guy and not just for the woman.

I'm quite sure you cannot name one.

For chicks there is tons of incentive and are the real winners of that legal arrangement. But for guys - just a bunch of big "L's" for them.

In a great wife you have sex on tap, a partner who backs you & supports you, a confidant, a helper, a companion and a sacred physical intimacy that is an emotional bond between two people; a life mate. That is before you get to the arena of a nuclear family unit, stability for children and all those benefits. And those benefits do not consider the social value a wife has in social life.

Now. You may not personally value the things I listed, That's fine. If you don't then you are not someone who will understand the worth of the attributes I listed.

However many men, even powerful high value men, DO place high value on the things I listed and there are tons of examples.

Donald Trump is married, Kevin Hart is married, Jon Bon Jovi is married (to his high school sweet heart), Emmit Smith is married, Ralph Lauren is married, Patrick Mahomes is married (also to his high school sweetheart), etc. etc etc.

These are very high value men who don't need to be married for sex. Therefore marriage must offer more value that a high status, high value man with unlimited options can appreciate. If not then these men would just remain unmarried.

Many men appreciate the value of marriage. You do not. But your opinion does not constitue the only opinion on the subject.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Donald Trump is married

On his 5th marriage, after four pricey divorces. Moral of the story: Wifing up a broad or several is a swell idea, once you're rich enough to afford them

 

[BeExcellent]

On his 5th marriage, after four pricey divorces. Moral of the story: Wifing up a broad or several is a swell idea, once you're rich enough to afford them

Same is true of Rupert Murdoch. But plenty of men pick a chick and stick too, including most of the rest on my off the cuff list.

Here's the thing. Being married and supporting a full time wife & at home mother for your children has become a status symbol. Why? Because the average man cannot afford it.

There is a whole status pecking order socially around this. The man with a beautiful, attractive wife and 4 kids who live in a 2M house and make the preschool run in a Range Rover and the grocery run for organic food at Whole Foods while the kids are sporting Ralph Lauren or Lily Pulitzer or Burberry is a very different thing than the family in the manufactured home with the used mini van who struggle to buy diapers & shop at Ssve a Lot and the kids are in hand me downs or Walmart clothes.

Both families can be loving families certainly. But in affluent circles it is bougey for a man to be able to afford a wealthy lifestyle for his family. The wives who don't have to work are seen in higher esteem than the wives who do work, no matter what the wife does.

And this affords such a man more clout among his peer group. During my first marriage I saw it first hand, and we were misfits of sorts because *I* was the sole breadwinner providing a comfortable lifestyle for my family. My husband did not have much status as a man socially in those circles, and the wives weren't all that comfortable around me either. Our 'backwards' situation did not conform to social norms in polite circles. Honestly I didn't care too much but I was well aware of us being seen as rather avant garde, and not in a net positive way.

 

[pipeman84]

I think what creates the most confusion is the fact we use the same word, marriage, for whatever relationship the likes of Trump, Murdoch etc have with various women up to their 5th wife and the kind of relationship @BeExcellent describes her son has with his wife.
There are night and day differences between these situations, yet because they're described using the same word, we keep arguing if marriage is good or bad.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Donald Trump is married, Kevin Hart is married, Jon Bon Jovi is married (to his high school sweet heart), Emmit Smith is married, Ralph Lauren is married, Patrick Mahomes is married (also to his high school sweetheart), etc. etc etc.
These are very high value men who don't need to be married for sex. Therefore marriage must offer more value that a high status, high value man with unlimited options can appreciate. If not then these men would just remain unmarried.

I had a high opinion on you, but when you're going to list Donald Trump on a list of 'very high value men'... Why not put Harvey Weinstein on your list as well? He was married as well, right? And he was rich and powerful, so clearly a 'high value man'.

This type of rationalisation of marriage totally devalues your opinion, sorry.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

There is a whole status pecking order socially around this. The man with a beautiful, attractive wife and 4 kids who live in a 2M house and make the preschool run in a Range Rover and the grocery run for organic food at Whole Foods while the kids are sporting Ralph Lauren or Lily Pulitzer or Burberry is a very different thing than the family in the manufactured home with the used mini van who struggle to buy diapers & shop at Ssve a Lot and the kids are in hand me downs or Walmart clothes.

Here's the thing. Being married and supporting a full time wife & at home mother for your children has become a status symbol. Why? Because the average man cannot afford it.

I'll just say, 'wow', and leave it at that.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I think what creates the most confusion is the fact we use the same word, marriage, for whatever relationship the likes of Trump, Murdoch etc have with various women up to their 5th wife and the kind of relationship @BeExcellent describes her son has with his wife.
There are night and day differences between these situations, yet because they're described using the same word, we keep arguing if marriage is good or bad.

Defending the institute of marriage using examples like Trump and Murdoch is like defending Christianity by using examples like Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart.

Only in America, I guess...

 

[BaronOfHair]

But in affluent circles it is bougey for a man to be able to afford a wealthy lifestyle for his family

And a blast to regularly jet off with his mistresses to Acapulco, Tahiti, etc etc, while the missus thinks he's in Singapore on business. Especially if the man in question has secretly outfitted every room in the house with CCTV, so that he can record the ol'ball'n'chain exploring her sexuality with the Peruvian au pair, while he's away

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I think what creates the most confusion is the fact we use the same word, marriage, for whatever relationship the likes of Trump, Murdoch etc have with various women up to their 5th wife and the kind of relationship @BeExcellent describes her son has with his wife.
There are night and day differences between these situations, yet because they're described using the same word, we keep arguing if marriage is good or bad.

No, what is creating confusion is that someone talks about the good sort of marriage her child has with his wife and then compares that marriage favourably with the marital atrocities of Trump and Murdoch. That is what is creating the confusion about whether marriage is still a respectable institution.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Only in America, I guess...

Don't forget: We're a nation in which St. Jude's once considered featuring Wayne Williams as a spokesman in their TV ads, provided he didn't get convicted. Defending the institution of marriage by holding up Trump and Murdoch as examples of it's sanctity, or pointing to Baker and Swaggart as poster boys of Christian virtue, is pretty mild by comparison

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Don't forget: We're a nation in which St. Jude's once considered featuring Wayne Williams as a spokesman in their TV ads, provided he didn't get convicted. Defending the institution of marriage by holding up Trump and Murdoch as examples of it's sanctity, or pointing to Baker and Swaggart as poster boys of Christian virtue, is pretty mild by comparison

The funny thing that in their Bible, Mammon (Greed) is deemed the enemy of Christian faith.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The funny thing that in their Bible, Mammon (Greed) is deemed the enemy of Christian faith.

Yep. Ever since TD Jakes became preoccupied with his swimming pool and sports cars, Black America has been forced to rely on Uncle Ruckus

Whenever DeAndre in Baltimore, or Shaquanda in Compton, require an exorcist

 

[AureliusMaximus]

In a great wife you have sex on tap, a partner who backs you & supports you, a confidant, a helper, a companion and a sacred physical intimacy that is an emotional bond between two people; a life mate. That is before you get to the arena of a nuclear family unit, stability for children and all those benefits. And those benefits do not consider the social value a wife has in social life.

Now. You may not personally value the things I listed, That's fine. If you don't then you are not someone who will understand the worth of the attributes I listed.

However many men, even powerful high value men, DO place high value on the things I listed and there are tons of examples.

Donald Trump is married, Kevin Hart is married, Jon Bon Jovi is married (to his high school sweet heart), Emmit Smith is married, Ralph Lauren is married, Patrick Mahomes is married (also to his high school sweetheart), etc. etc etc.

These are very high value men who don't need to be married for sex. Therefore marriage must offer more value that a high status, high value man with unlimited options can appreciate. If not then these men would just remain unmarried.

Many men appreciate the value of marriage. You do not. But your opinion does not constitue the only opinion on the subject.

You miss the point or don't understand it.
You do not need a legal paper (Which doesn't say "I love you") to have that.
You can have that without being married too. If both persons trust and love each other and will share all the listed.

 

[BeExcellent]

Ok @AmsterdamAssassin I perhaps should have chosen billionnaire Warren Buffet, also married, and for decades to the same wife.

Your politics dont matter, billionnaires are high status, high value men by any standard.

It was not a political comment. If there are billionnaires who see value in it, then that says something.

And yes there are social pecking orders everywhere in human society. There are exclusive country clubs around the world, they have dress codes and codes of conduct etc. I'm perplexed why pointing this out seems to bug you. It exists, it's accurate, and no not everyone gets accepted in these social groups.

Humans tend to self segregate and establish social hierarchies. This is not news. But marital status does have a bearing on it. There has never been an unmarried US President in history. So I'm not making this up.