A question for Latinoman

[ElChoclo]

Obnoxious, you might not find the discussions which we men have, to be "serious", but we consider them to be very important. Some unfortunate individual could get badly affected by your loose moralistic talk about dead beat parents.

I know that serious discussions can be tiresome for women, and perhaps this is why women's magazines concentrate on diets and what Brad Pitt is doing to Angelina Jolie. Your attempts to bring down a fine individual, just because he is a man and doesn't agree with your prudish moral theories about family life represents the viewpoint of a sexist. And I might add, remarks about sic, an "ole dude" represent the thinking of an ageist too.

If we need any advice from someone who has never ridden a bob sled about bob sled racing, we will call on you, just as we seek advice about child raising from those who have yet to reproduce.

 

[Latinoman]

46 is NOT an old age.

I personally consider the 35-42 age range as the prime years of a man (if he managed to get his stuff together in his 20s)...give or take 2-3 years. As those years are the ones right in the middle of what we live in average (70-84). Which means that we are starting our second life...

46 is NOT an old age. A 46 year old man can easily marry a 32 year old woman and have a GREAT fullfilling future together.

That's why I didn't even bother replying to the "old man" remark, because I didn't see anyone of "retiring age" posting in here.

 

[Oblivious]

I never mentioned anything about how one should raise a child. I simply said that there are responsibilities to be had for one who is a parent. And regardless of what you say, although I do not have any children of my own, I am well aware that there are responsibilities that people who make babies have. And I can have my views on the subject matter all I want. If you agree with me or not, I don't care. I know what I will do when I have kids. What you do or have done is your business. If it hits a sour note because I have said something contrary to what you have done--then I can't help that.
Its just my point of view that if they don't take on those responsibilites as parents they are DEAD BEATS! Plain and simple. But most specifically I was talking in Latinoman's case--not every case in the world. Here lies a situation where he was part of a household and he removed himself. Now regardless if he was removing himself from his ex-wife--he still had a responsibility as a parent to his kids--which he rightfully took on. It would have been deadbeatish of him to have walked away from the marriage and those kids. Now I realize that there are special situations. But you saying that my stance on this as loose moralism--I find that amusing. I our society is going down to pits because of folks who don't take responsibility for their actions. Be accountable for your actions right or wrong. If you have kids, take care of them, find a way for them to be taken care of, or just take precaution and not have them if you aren't ready for the job.

And I do think someone 40ish is old. But I never said it in a sense where being that age was a handicap. And even if I was being agest, a moralist, or what have you....so what. You are a sexist!

So you can take a chill pill...good grief. This forum is just for dialogue, it is nothing serious to get bent out of shape about. Everything on here should be taken with a grain of salt. No one has all the answers. Its all opinions....

 

[Latinoman]

And I do think someone 40ish is old. But I never said it in a sense where being that age was a handicap.

40s is “old”?

Hahahaha.

Tell that to Brad Pitt (43), George Clooney (45), Tom Cruise (44), Patrick Dempsey (40), Viggo Mortensen (48), Dennis Leary (49), or Clive Owen (42).

They are NOT old and neither is any man in their 40s. In fact...I'm sure you would NOT find any of those men "old".

 

[ElChoclo]

Obnoxious, to you this forum may just be for dialogue about opinions, taken with a grain of salt, but to the men who share their deep insights here, it is a place of higher learning. I know that concept may be difficult for you to grasp because you are more accustomed to the kind of shallow discussions adopted by women, but you need to try and rise to the standard here.

Also, you should understand that there are some people who argue very strongly against the concept of a free will. If they are correct, your simplistic view of "responsibility for one's actions" is quite meaningless. Someone with your "world" view probably enjoys making harsh judgments about people from unfortunate circumstances. You are probably the type who endorses capital punishment for those born on the wrong side of the tracks.

When you have lived for a while, and actually made people yourself, you will see that there is more to life than merely parroting the opinions of your parents.

 

[Oblivious]

You are wrong! Yes I do think that all those fellas are old. I don't care how much you wrap it up and put a bow on it--they are old. Heck I am 26 and I am sure I am considered old by a 10 year old or even a 16 year old. LOL, and I am. So I think a 40 year old is old, a 60 year old is even older, etc, etc, etc....

And El puhleeze, there is no argument against people NOT taking responsibility for their own actions--unless in the rarest occassions (mental illness, against his or her well). I don't know what world you live where people can do what they please and not take responsibility for their actions. And once again you are going all off topic. People who lay down and make babies needing to take responsibility for making those babies has nothing to do with capital punishment. I have my views on that as well, but they have nothing to do with parents taking care of babies that they create. Now I did say that certain circumstances warrants different outcomes. And I still say that if one has a child and doesn't take on the responsibilities of taking care and caring for that child is a dead beat. Do you have kids? Do you take care of them? Are you a dead beat? If you are grown enough to get down and dirty and make those babies, you are grown enough to take care of them too! Now stay on topic!

 

[newbie81]

You are wrong! Yes I do think that all those fellas are old. I don't care how much you wrap it up and put a bow on it--they are old. Heck I am 26 and I am sure I am considered old by a 10 year old or even a 16 year old. LOL, and I am. So I think a 40 year old is old, a 60 year old is even older, etc, etc, etc....

And El puhleeze, there is no argument against people NOT taking responsibility for their own actions--unless in the rarest occassions (mental illness, against his or her well). I don't know what world you live where people can do what they please and not take responsibility for their actions. And once again you are going all off topic. People who lay down and make babies needing to take responsibility for making those babies has nothing to do with capital punishment. I have my views on that as well, but they have nothing to do with parents taking care of babies that they create. Now I did say that certain circumstances warrants different outcomes. And I still say that if one has a child and doesn't take on the responsibilities of taking care and caring for that child is a dead beat. Do you have kids? Do you take care of them? Are you a dead beat? If you are grown enough to get down and dirty and make those babies, you are grown enough to take care of them too! Now stay on topic!

Judging someone by his age, is the same as judging someone by his looks, by his origins, by his belongings, by his friends,...

The problem with judging people is that they will judge you because of you judging them. Basic dealing with people 101. Appearently you have problems with this, you have judged Latinoman's behavior before based on assumptions about his past LTR, now about his age... You also never tell people "they are wrong".

Age is irrelevant. You seem to see yourself young for being 26. I'm 25, younger people see me as old, older people see me as young. I dated girls that were 5 years older leading a nihilistic life (nightclubs, no goals,...). You could judge them as mature (their age), but also immature (their behavior). It's all about POV. I'll see myself as young & mature for the rest of my life. Never old.

You're only old if you are leading an passive lifestyle, you're young if you lead an active lifestyle. Old = passive, young = active.

Problem with "young people" (including me) is that they think they always know better, they don't want to listen, but only to speak about what they think is right about society & the world, while they have zero experience to back it up.

Remember these four:


"Judge not, and you shall not be judged; condemn not, and you shall not be condemned; " Luke 6:37

"You are what you think"

"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your ****ing khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world." Fight Club

"I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde


Good luck.

 

[Latinoman]

She is judging a Choclo's age.

And by the way...they is no doubt in my mind that if she met any of those men (myself included)...that the "old" crap would go out of the window. She would be doing at least one (if not all) of them.

 

[d9930380]

I agree with Litinoman ALOT because I'm quite cynical as I've met alot of BAD (selfish) people in life and now I have my guard up but in this case I agree with Oblivious (although I haven't read all the posts).

The truth is, is that there are good and bad people in life. Those that think their happiness matters more than those around them and those that don't. Latinoman although technically right in many ways has shown himself he's the selfish variety BUT there are ALOT of women who think the same. It just happens to be that the good people get screwed by this type, man or women.

 

[Latinoman]

but in this case I agree with Oblivious (although I haven't read all the posts).

So...how can you possibly agree with her if you have not read all the posts?

Here is the thing...I bet 3-months of my salary that Oblivious (a 26-year old woman) actions are different to her words. To the point that their is no doubt in my mind that if any of those men (the list I provided before) come to her path...she will phuck at least one (or all). And that in the process she will find justification (e.g. age won't be the factor) to why she and "he" could be in a relationship.

The truth is, is that there are good and bad people in life. Those that think their happiness matters more than those around them and those that don't.

I do have some selfish qualities (however, I also give a lot too as I donate $ to children causes and share some of my knowledge in places like this as to help other men deal with their issues). However, although I have some selfish qualities, so did Jesus Christ and for that matter God (one that does NOT want to share his status with "other gods").

For the same token, Bin Ladin is a very unselfish person as he gave away his riches (millions and millions of dollars) to serve the cause of his people.


You statement clearly indicates that I'm a bad person. That Jesus Christ was a bad person. And that God is evil. For the same token Bin Ladin is a good man, based on your statement.

 

[d9930380]

Sorry why do we never tell people they are wrong?

That's bs, yes there is no moral absolute authority unless you believe in God but you have beliefs that YOU live your life by and it shows integrity to stand up and take a stance and say when YOU think someone is wrong or not.

The reason why I agree with Laitinoman alot is because there are ALOT of people like him (I agree, it's the reason why society is falling apart), and it actually helps getting his perspective because learning from him allows me to spot them and to see their game, men or women.

I also agree that once you have kids, YOUR happiness comes second to them. You man-up and swallow it because your responsibility lies with their happiness not your own. If you are just married then you owe her to try to make it work (Latinoman did this so I don't have a problem with this part), if it's not salvagable then yes divorce as in the long term it will be better for both because the other party deserves the chance of finding someone who loves her.

 

[d9930380]

Sorry what selfish qualities did Jesus have? He was given the chance to rule as a God among men (the Jewish Messiah) but decided to give it all up and sacrifice that and his life by dying on the cross to show the way for the rest of us.

Doing "good acts" doesn't make you good. Being good goes more to the nature of your soul and how you treat those around you especially those closest. Giving money that won't REALLY effect your life negatively won't buy your soul. Look at what Jesus said about the rich man giving some money in the temple so ALL could see, a hypocite and the poor women who give her all she had left.

As for God being selfish and not wanting to share his abilities with "other Gods", the first commandment states there are NO other gods. Infact it's said that we are made in his image so it's even arguable that he gave US all those abilities and we're just like children who haven't grown up enough to learn how to use them - maybe that's also the reason why Jesus never put himself above anyone even those shunned be society.

 

[Latinoman]

Listen...I'm not going to discuss religion with you or anyone. As the Bible (a book I've read 4 times in my lifetime, both in English and Spanish) has being designed to prove BOTH sides of the coin on literally most issues.

So, debating this would be a futile excercise.

However...let's debate Bin Ladin which is one of the most UNselfish individuals out there. What about those Jihad terrorists that strap bombs around their bodies in order to serve their cause? They are giving their lives away!

That's UNSELFISH...but that does not make them GOOD. And that is my point...classifying "unselfishness" as the characteristic that make a "man" good...is foolish.

Giving money to some good causes (especially if the person is not rich) show unselfishness...as I could instead be buying myself a nice pair of shoes. Spending time in this place trying to help men some DJ ways is unselfish as instead I could be doing some work or reading a magazine on how self improvement. Heck...it is to my advantage if Western Men become a bunch of "maricones" or puzzies as it would benefit me and men like me. But I don't want that.

If you have been hurt in your life by what you call "selfish" women...then that is YOUR problem. You approached them and you were not selective enough. But I understand that you wanted to be a "giver"...and regardless of how much bad behavior those women exhibited...you wanted to be 100% unselfish and continued to give and allowed them to "take".

I give...but I also take.

And when it comes to happiness...I'm HAPPY.

But when it comes to SEX...I'm the MOST UNSELFISH man out there...as what pleases me the most is being able to satisfy ANY woman that has sex with me. And that is my stamp to "unselfishness".

 

[newbie81]

The truth is, is that there are good and bad people in life. Those that think their happiness matters more than those around them and those that don't. Latinoman although technically right in many ways has shown himself he's the selfish variety BUT there are ALOT of women who think the same. It just happens to be that the good people get screwed by this type, man or women.

Expressing your self is not a moral issue. Expressing yourself is a duty, even if it causes colleteral damage.

Sorry why do we never tell people they are wrong?

Because it is a sure way to make enemies. Handling people 101.

The reason why I agree with Laitinoman alot is because there are ALOT of people like him (I agree, it's the reason why society is falling apart), and it actually helps getting his perspective because learning from him allows me to spot them and to see their game, men or women.

Society is falling apart because of conformism. Not because of individualism.

I also agree that once you have kids, YOUR happiness comes second to them. You man-up and swallow it because your responsibility lies with their happiness not your own.

In other other words: you would stay with a woman that cheats on you, disrespects you, brings other men home,... so the kids are happy.

Sorry what selfish qualities did Jesus have?

Jesus was an individualist, didn't want to conform. Individualists are selfish.

 

[Oblivious]

One thing that I have found that you all do is take one little thing that someone says and dissect it into thousands of other little pieces--quite unecessary when you really don't get the gist of the usage in the first place. But regardless, I didn't judge anyone because of their age. I just said I think that 40 is old and I still think so. And if I ever got with anyone who was 40 I'd still think they were old. I would be dating an old man. Now to say that is not saying that the dude is handicap in anyway---I never said that so all that banter about me judging because of age and all that is a bunch of hogwash. And I have been approached by older men, and no I don't want to get with any of them. Not saying that it could never happen. And please believe that whatever I write on here is not contrary to my actions. I don't go around doing every guy because he think he is slick, looks good, has money, etc. Puhleeze....It takes so much more than that. I've been raised with morals, ethics, standards, etc. And I don't intend to go against any of that. Maybe to my detriment...but I think to my benefit in the long run. I want to live a life where I don't have to trample on anyone's feelings because of my selfishness. Its just not right and not worth it in the long run. Karma is a mutha....It makes me upset that I try to do right with so many people doing wrong around me and bragging about it and seemingly getting their way as a result of it--but thats them and they are going to have to deal with any consequences that come as a result, not me. All I can do is do me and what I believe to be right. That is definitely not a conformist especially in the society we live in now. And I am not saying that I am better than anyone because it, its just what I am.

And newbie you need to get a grip on life and stop regurgitating stuff you've read on SoSuave. And please don't get on Jesus and God. They are not selfish in anyway. God sacrificed his only son on our behalf. Jesus sacrificed his OWN life. And hmm....an individualist. Well I think Jesus was petitioning for followers. I think once you have a few million followers---individualism goes out the door. Just with SoSuave. You all want to be bands of brothers that do the same thing---nothing individual about that. Be your own man. Do what works for you. And plus your methods won't work with every female in every situation. You get that in your head then things may go swell. We all want happiness, but everyday isn't a bundle of roses. Get a grip with reality and stop putting the negatives in your life on women. Could it be you? I am done....

And still Latinoman has not given any insight on what knowledge he would drop his daughter about men and and her relationship with them.....

 

[newbie81]

And newbie you need to get a grip on life and stop regurgitating stuff you've read on SoSuave. And please don't get on Jesus and God. They are not selfish in anyway. God sacrificed his only son on our behalf. Jesus sacrificed his OWN life. And hmm....an individualist. Well I think Jesus was petitioning for followers. I think once you have a few million followers---individualism goes out the door. Just with SoSuave. You all want to be bands of brothers that do the same thing---nothing individual about that. Be your own man. Do what works for you. And plus your methods won't work with every female in every situation. You get that in your head then things may go swell. We all want happiness, but everyday isn't a bundle of roses. Get a grip with reality and stop putting the negatives in your life on women. Could it be you? I am done....

Jesus was crucified because of his ideas, because he didn't want to conform with society. He could have conformed & lived, but he choose to follow & teach his own ideas, leading to his crucifications by the Romans. If Jesus wouldn't have sticked to his shocking ideas (at that time), there wouldn't have been the millions of followers you mention.

The pursuit of your indvidiual interests rather than the common/collective interests is EGOISM or SELFISHNESS. All great men in history were INDIVIDUALIST that choose RATIONALLY and not EMOTIONALLY, even if sometimes it lead to colleteral damage or their own death (like Jesus).

I respect your opinion on LIFE. If you want to open your mind to other ways of thinking/life, don't hesitate to contact me: I have an extensive book list on various subject that can help you developping your SELF as an INDIVIDUAL. If I would judge you, I'd say you are close minded & won't contact me, but I won't judge you.

Good luck.

 

[Latinoman]

....If Jesus wouldn't have sticked to his shocking ideas (at that time), there wouldn't have been the millions of followers you mention....

....All great men in history were INDIVIDUALIST that choose RATIONALLY and not EMOTIONALLY, even if sometimes it lead to colleteral damage or their own death (like Jesus).

Exactly.

 

[Latinoman]

Oblivious...if you PM me...I will give you the answer.

But I don't want to talk about something as sacred as my relationship with my daughter in a Forum for everybody to read.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yeah...but the difference between JESUS and the usual garden variety "Individualist" is that HIS "selfishness" was fueled by a "selfLESS" mission:

JESUS' radical views, words, and actions were motivated by his love of OTHER people AS WELL as HIMSELF.

Both HIS selfish AND selfless acts were part of a plan of RECONCILIATION of mankind back to HIMSELF (God).

JESUS came to rebuild, regenerate, and restore RELATIONSHIPS----not to do away with them.

That's why they called it "The plan of REDEMPTION."

The Bible (yes, the REAL one...lol) speaks of JESUS metaphorically as the Groom, and we the people (the church) as the Bride. Theoretically, once a marriage is entered into, the Groom and the Bride both are expected to, in a sense, lay down their lives for the other reciprocally.

Although there are definitely things that qualify as dealbreakers and marriage-breakers, staying HAPPILY together remains one of the primary goals of matrimony.

So therefore, IF the love between a man and woman IS real (see----both having true mutual HIGH INTEREST LEVEL in each other), shouldn't a "certain amount" of selfishness DIE at the altar of marriage?


Just food for thought...



"Let he who has ears to hear LISTEN to what The Spirit is saying..."

 

[Oblivious]

Jesus was crucified because of his ideas, because he didn't want to conform with society. He could have conformed & lived, but he choose to follow & teach his own ideas, leading to his crucifications by the Romans. If Jesus wouldn't have sticked to his shocking ideas (at that time), there wouldn't have been the millions of followers you mention.

The pursuit of your indvidiual interests rather than the common/collective interests is EGOISM or SELFISHNESS. All great men in history were INDIVIDUALIST that choose RATIONALLY and not EMOTIONALLY, even if sometimes it lead to colleteral damage or their own death (like Jesus).

I respect your opinion on LIFE. If you want to open your mind to other ways of thinking/life, don't hesitate to contact me: I have an extensive book list on various subject that can help you developping your SELF as an INDIVIDUAL. If I would judge you, I'd say you are close minded & won't contact me, but I won't judge you.

Good luck.

Hmmm...no Newbie. You still got it messed up. You don't make sense. You go from saying Jesus was selfish to an individualist. Nah, not buying it. But its okay to agree to disagree. I am not closed minded. I am open to evaluating other ideals or be accepting of the ideals that others choose to follow. But just because other ideals exist don't mean I have to embrace them wholeheartedly. You can read your books till your eyes fall out...go right ahead. The people who write those books are no more an authority than you or I. So no I don't need to contact you and I won't. I am sure the longer I live this life, some of my ideas will change, get stronger, and I'll develop new ones. Experience will do that....not getting wrap up in books written by amatuers telling me how I should live my life. I have had a pretty good foundation from my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings and just overall being observant of other people and learning and embracing the mistakes of others and my own. But what works for you, works for you. But the answers aren't necessarily in your book collection or even SoSuave.