De La Soul
Master Don Juan
Thanks, Nick.
Haven't checked that email in a month!
A potential flaw I see in Pook's reasoning [merged]
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Haven't checked that email in a month!
De La Soul
Master Don Juan
LOL. You haven't seen me pissed off if you think that's touchy.
I think the SS you've described is COMPLETELY different to what I've described.
Being honest with oneself is life changing. Try it out.
I was never a shy guy, that's something completely different. This wasn't about breaking out of a shell, it was about changing the way I look at life.
I've seen you lay out many philosophies. Check out the "Be a man" thread, or the "Kill that desperation" or many of your replies to questions. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with your advice, I really like what you write. It's very motivational. But I disagree with you on the point of blanketing all SS methods in the "bucking the trend of nature" category. If anything, the ability to express oneself honestly is a gift of nature, it's just suppressed by both "Nice Guys" and "Jerks" alike. Despite the fact that it's called the Juggler Method, there's really no philosophy to it - or one that I'm aware of. It's not a set list of things to do, or a formula, just a way to be.
- De La Soul
TrickyNick
I read the Juggler's Method. If I got the link wrong, tell me: http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23562&highlight=juggler
Since I heard so many people praise this 'Juggler' method and De La Soul saying how 'it changed his life', I was expecting something interesting. I kept on wondering "WHERE is the seduction here?" In my SS days, everything was geared to getting the girl in such a way that AFCs couldn't even THINK. This is why when I read something that is about 'being casual in encounters', I don't consider that SS. If this is now SS, then SS really has gotten watered down IMO.
Correct me if I'm wrong Trickynick: the Juggler's Method is a METHOD (or series of methods) designed to relax and make more casual one's interactions and project one's values and increase rapport. (A method of casualness? A series of 'prjecting values'? My mind flashes 'Paradox')
It all sounds fine. It is something I would expect Allen to put on the main page. It is not the SS I am used to. If there is any seduction in the Juggler Method, where is it? I didn't see any.
Through your 'lay report', I didn't really see ANY seduction, at least not the type I was used to.
I want to highlight the end part:
During pillow-talk/afterplay I said...
"I have something to tell you. I have been truthful with you about everything so far...except for one thing. Juggler actually does have another job I didn't tell you about. He teaches seduction."
I proceeded to tell her about the workshop, ASF, why I got into all this, the whole nine yards. She found it interesting and was blown away by my honesty. But said, "You didn't seduce me, I seduced you."
"You are right," I said, "You did. That was the idea."
I always wondered why after sex, people become super honest and spill out their lives. Never could figure that one out...
What if she is RIGHT? What if she did seduce you? What if you were merely material to be used and discarded for her pleasure?
It's been said that women are the targets. I believe that women are the ARROWS. A woman is 100% sexuality. Sexuality is woman's turf. Just as prevalent space is in our Universe, sexuality fills up all the spaces in Womaniverse. Otto Weieger pointed out a lot of this in disturbing clarity.
The more I looked at literature, the more this theme is seen. It is as if the ancients understood the sheer power of women and rebelled against it.
She got a ride from you home. She kept you at her place for her later plans. She goes to YOUR bed. I bet she did a 'lay' report for her friends on the phone later that day.
I always wondered how girls could be so cruel to AFCs. But when seen in this light, they find their control over them not as cruel but as a testamount to their power.
Trickynick, if you ever want to try something different, do this: Make the chick think that she has you in her grasp. Then, when the moment of truth comes, DON'T GO FOR IT. I've never seen women get so furious before. They become confused at first, then extremely angry.
One funny case was a class I had. This chick was pretty cute (she was a dance instructor too!). She was sending me hints like I've never seen. I kept on ignoring her (haha). She even planned a party after the final just to get ME. Near the end, she wore this skin tight top (covered with a jacket). She uncovered herself at one point in class, and I was like "WHOA". Once she saw that I noticed her, she smiled and covered herself up. Obviously, those things were meant for me. At first, I thought, "MAN! Those are going to be mine tonight! She wants me to have them!" Then I realized, "Wait a second. She is trying to conquer me. Let's see what happens if I don't go for her." Sure enough, she got angry/depressed/frustrated/hateful all at once!
Women don't just prance around in the world. They are trying to conquer men. After all, we men love it when women understand us. But women HATE it when we understand them. When you look at a lot of marriages, you know who is really in control (and this goes beyong AFCness). Oddly, the men seem HAPPY like my dog who is happy to be told when to be fed, when to be played with, and when he can get on the bed.
In either case, I am no longer an SSer of ANY kind. The approach I use now is different and closer to Juggler's style (though not exactly). De La Soul gets it, at least conceptually, but Pook doesn't seem to.
Exactly! Juggler 'Method' doesn't even seem like SS. It is the same content that used to be talked about in the older days of this forum.
However, the average guy who comes in here, doesn't work on his game
One issue with 'game' is that you must keep it habit. If you stop it for a month or two (due to whatever else in life), you will find yourself rusty real quick. It is a learned habits. Game doesn't age well.
and after reading one of your posts leaves and decides to "focus on himself" has NOT PUT IN THE WORK.
You work on yourself. It will never age. You will carry it with you all the time and it will be with you wherever you go. You will use it in every circumstance, all the time, throughout the rest of your life.
One problem is that the DJ Bible has displaced time from the posts. The posts were written when they were for a reason. Take the "Kill that Desperation" one. That was when the board was full of 'how to' tips. How to do your hair. What clothes to wear. How to speak to her. How to hold your hands. That is why the 'mindset' thing came about when everything was tricks and tactics.
The 'Be a Man' post came when the forum was talking about having passion in life and all. If you look at them how they are, I can see why one would think they are for a 'grand mission'. But most of my posts came BEFORE the DJ bible and weren't meant to be floating texts detattached from any context.
There are skills to be developed and I think you, Pook, try to trick guys into thinking otherwise by writing things that attempt to make them feel on top of the world and on some sort of grand mission.
My posts were written TO me. They weren't intended for any audience except for Pook. You guys are just overhearing me talk to myself (it's a reason why I'm not an 'advice giver'. I like thinking about my problems, not others. But human nature is universal so my problems are often someone else's problems.
It's another reason why I think guys when they slip from AFC/Nice Guy into Don Juans do the best posts. They realize their own problems. But when you fix your problems and stay here, you see other problems in your life (financial, educational, etc.) rather than women so it becomes hard to 'think' of women problems again.
If someone said to me, "I can't even talk to women!" I wouldn't know what to say to him. I've been there but I can't relate to his problem. I used to analyze everything I did with women. Now I can't even understand why I, or anyone, would analyze.
De La Soul
I've seen you lay out many philosophies. Check out the "Be a man" thread, or the "Kill that desperation" or many of your replies to questions.
What philosophy is in "Be a Man"? Admitting that you have a penis is not a philosophy.
The "Kill that Desperation" thread is a mess that goes on for years. But at the end, I say: "No philosophy."
In fact, looking back at all my problems WAS philosophy. Why could I just BE?
Juggler says, Your time will be much better spent on
finding your values and packaging them to sell. If you are into one night stands then get good at explaining why these are good. If you want an open relationship, get good at selling that idea. If you have a bi-sexual girlfriend, get good at selling the idea of a hot threesome to other women.
Whatever it is you want, whatever your values are, become powerful at talking about them.
Ho hum. Its stuff that has been said on this forum for years. You've GOT to have values, first of all. A man with no values is no man at all.
I still don't see anything new with Juggler. We always knew that you had to have convictions before you walk out the door, that you had to have a sense of self. Women are creatures that link. If there is nothing to link to, no strength, no honesty, she moves on.
The idea that women take your values one of the central themes of Weineger.
Check out this from an advice column of Camille Paglia:
Dear Camille:
Two buddies of mine who live thousands of miles from each other were unceremoniously dumped a couple of years ago by their girlfriends. Right after chucking their excess baggage, both girls adopted all the significant traits of their former boyfriends. One went from being a pampered trust-fund baby who read Woolf and subscribed to trendy political causes to being an ardent backpacker in love with Conrad. The other changed her major from environmental science to classical anthropology and philosophy and her music from Depeche Mode to Lime Spiders. You get the picture. Why would these women become the men they no longer love?
- Musing in Kankakee
Dear Musing:
I am stunned by this colorful evidence of the ancient principle of female vampirism, recorded everywhere in world mythology. Having sucked men dry, like marrow from a bone, woman calmly sails on to her next adventure. Sublime!
Let us NOT underestimate the power of women.
I read the Juggler's Method. If I got the link wrong, tell me: http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23562&highlight=juggler
Since I heard so many people praise this 'Juggler' method and De La Soul saying how 'it changed his life', I was expecting something interesting. I kept on wondering "WHERE is the seduction here?" In my SS days, everything was geared to getting the girl in such a way that AFCs couldn't even THINK. This is why when I read something that is about 'being casual in encounters', I don't consider that SS. If this is now SS, then SS really has gotten watered down IMO.
Correct me if I'm wrong Trickynick: the Juggler's Method is a METHOD (or series of methods) designed to relax and make more casual one's interactions and project one's values and increase rapport. (A method of casualness? A series of 'prjecting values'? My mind flashes 'Paradox')
It all sounds fine. It is something I would expect Allen to put on the main page. It is not the SS I am used to. If there is any seduction in the Juggler Method, where is it? I didn't see any.
Through your 'lay report', I didn't really see ANY seduction, at least not the type I was used to.
I want to highlight the end part:
During pillow-talk/afterplay I said...
"I have something to tell you. I have been truthful with you about everything so far...except for one thing. Juggler actually does have another job I didn't tell you about. He teaches seduction."
I proceeded to tell her about the workshop, ASF, why I got into all this, the whole nine yards. She found it interesting and was blown away by my honesty. But said, "You didn't seduce me, I seduced you."
"You are right," I said, "You did. That was the idea."
I always wondered why after sex, people become super honest and spill out their lives. Never could figure that one out...
What if she is RIGHT? What if she did seduce you? What if you were merely material to be used and discarded for her pleasure?
It's been said that women are the targets. I believe that women are the ARROWS. A woman is 100% sexuality. Sexuality is woman's turf. Just as prevalent space is in our Universe, sexuality fills up all the spaces in Womaniverse. Otto Weieger pointed out a lot of this in disturbing clarity.
The more I looked at literature, the more this theme is seen. It is as if the ancients understood the sheer power of women and rebelled against it.
She got a ride from you home. She kept you at her place for her later plans. She goes to YOUR bed. I bet she did a 'lay' report for her friends on the phone later that day.
I always wondered how girls could be so cruel to AFCs. But when seen in this light, they find their control over them not as cruel but as a testamount to their power.
Trickynick, if you ever want to try something different, do this: Make the chick think that she has you in her grasp. Then, when the moment of truth comes, DON'T GO FOR IT. I've never seen women get so furious before. They become confused at first, then extremely angry.
One funny case was a class I had. This chick was pretty cute (she was a dance instructor too!). She was sending me hints like I've never seen. I kept on ignoring her (haha). She even planned a party after the final just to get ME. Near the end, she wore this skin tight top (covered with a jacket). She uncovered herself at one point in class, and I was like "WHOA". Once she saw that I noticed her, she smiled and covered herself up. Obviously, those things were meant for me. At first, I thought, "MAN! Those are going to be mine tonight! She wants me to have them!" Then I realized, "Wait a second. She is trying to conquer me. Let's see what happens if I don't go for her." Sure enough, she got angry/depressed/frustrated/hateful all at once!
Women don't just prance around in the world. They are trying to conquer men. After all, we men love it when women understand us. But women HATE it when we understand them. When you look at a lot of marriages, you know who is really in control (and this goes beyong AFCness). Oddly, the men seem HAPPY like my dog who is happy to be told when to be fed, when to be played with, and when he can get on the bed.
In either case, I am no longer an SSer of ANY kind. The approach I use now is different and closer to Juggler's style (though not exactly). De La Soul gets it, at least conceptually, but Pook doesn't seem to.
Exactly! Juggler 'Method' doesn't even seem like SS. It is the same content that used to be talked about in the older days of this forum.
However, the average guy who comes in here, doesn't work on his game
One issue with 'game' is that you must keep it habit. If you stop it for a month or two (due to whatever else in life), you will find yourself rusty real quick. It is a learned habits. Game doesn't age well.
and after reading one of your posts leaves and decides to "focus on himself" has NOT PUT IN THE WORK.
You work on yourself. It will never age. You will carry it with you all the time and it will be with you wherever you go. You will use it in every circumstance, all the time, throughout the rest of your life.
One problem is that the DJ Bible has displaced time from the posts. The posts were written when they were for a reason. Take the "Kill that Desperation" one. That was when the board was full of 'how to' tips. How to do your hair. What clothes to wear. How to speak to her. How to hold your hands. That is why the 'mindset' thing came about when everything was tricks and tactics.
The 'Be a Man' post came when the forum was talking about having passion in life and all. If you look at them how they are, I can see why one would think they are for a 'grand mission'. But most of my posts came BEFORE the DJ bible and weren't meant to be floating texts detattached from any context.
There are skills to be developed and I think you, Pook, try to trick guys into thinking otherwise by writing things that attempt to make them feel on top of the world and on some sort of grand mission.
My posts were written TO me. They weren't intended for any audience except for Pook. You guys are just overhearing me talk to myself (it's a reason why I'm not an 'advice giver'. I like thinking about my problems, not others.
But human nature is universal so my problems are often someone else's problems.It's another reason why I think guys when they slip from AFC/Nice Guy into Don Juans do the best posts. They realize their own problems. But when you fix your problems and stay here, you see other problems in your life (financial, educational, etc.) rather than women so it becomes hard to 'think' of women problems again.
If someone said to me, "I can't even talk to women!" I wouldn't know what to say to him. I've been there but I can't relate to his problem. I used to analyze everything I did with women. Now I can't even understand why I, or anyone, would analyze.
De La Soul
I've seen you lay out many philosophies. Check out the "Be a man" thread, or the "Kill that desperation" or many of your replies to questions.
What philosophy is in "Be a Man"? Admitting that you have a penis is not a philosophy.
The "Kill that Desperation" thread is a mess that goes on for years. But at the end, I say: "No philosophy."
In fact, looking back at all my problems WAS philosophy. Why could I just BE?
Juggler says, Your time will be much better spent on
finding your values and packaging them to sell. If you are into one night stands then get good at explaining why these are good. If you want an open relationship, get good at selling that idea. If you have a bi-sexual girlfriend, get good at selling the idea of a hot threesome to other women.
Whatever it is you want, whatever your values are, become powerful at talking about them.
Ho hum. Its stuff that has been said on this forum for years. You've GOT to have values, first of all. A man with no values is no man at all.
I still don't see anything new with Juggler. We always knew that you had to have convictions before you walk out the door, that you had to have a sense of self. Women are creatures that link. If there is nothing to link to, no strength, no honesty, she moves on.
The idea that women take your values one of the central themes of Weineger.
Check out this from an advice column of Camille Paglia:
Dear Camille:
Two buddies of mine who live thousands of miles from each other were unceremoniously dumped a couple of years ago by their girlfriends. Right after chucking their excess baggage, both girls adopted all the significant traits of their former boyfriends. One went from being a pampered trust-fund baby who read Woolf and subscribed to trendy political causes to being an ardent backpacker in love with Conrad. The other changed her major from environmental science to classical anthropology and philosophy and her music from Depeche Mode to Lime Spiders. You get the picture. Why would these women become the men they no longer love?
- Musing in Kankakee
Dear Musing:
I am stunned by this colorful evidence of the ancient principle of female vampirism, recorded everywhere in world mythology. Having sucked men dry, like marrow from a bone, woman calmly sails on to her next adventure. Sublime!
Let us NOT underestimate the power of women.
Cesare Cardinali
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
- Messages
- 911
- Reaction score
- 8
Hey Pook,
I just don't get how you thought my Field Report has anything to do with SS? It was NOT an SS post. There were no patterns, no eliciting values, nothing. I was just approaching a bunch of girls and talking enthusiastically about what a great guy I am and my interests. And then I went for a phone number or a coffee date. That's it, that's all. Could you please explain what made it an SS post? If anything, the method I used had more to do with what YOU teach, than with anything SS.
In the Bible (the real one) it says: "And God said "let there be light" and "light appeared". Maybe we can add a line in the DJ bible: And Cesare Cardinali said: "Pook...Pook, where are you?" and Pook appeared".
And you say you're not a hollier than thou guru. Admit it! You're busted!
Can't you not be so serious for once and realize the great irony here in that guys like PDX and myself are probably the only two on Sosuave who have taken the time to read and absorbe all of your posts and can debate it properly with you? I find it amazing quite frankly. Most AFC newbies who'd just as soon get on their knees and praise the Lord for a chance at discussing this stuff with you, probably couldn't elaborate on "Pook Method" for more than the simple "Be a Man" battle cry. But PDX and myself can get into the nitty gritty and its a lot of fun for me; And I hope for you too. So I don't get why you seem so pissed all the time.
Hell dude, I'm flattered that you've taken such an interest in my posts and my development and that you keep jumping into my posts. And I agree with PDX when he says that we are not that far off and would probably agree with each other if it wasn't so much fun to debate this stuff.
and this one . Sense of humor is really important dude, women like it. Oh sh*t, you see what I just did? I just tailored myself for a woman with the whole "women like it bit". Ok, let me rephrase. "Sense of humour is really important. It feels good to laugh at yourself once in a while".
Pook, you got all that Apollo Dyonisian stuff from Neitzche (spelling?) right? or did you get it from Ayn Rand? I know that you are or were a fan of Ayn Rand (I am too ) and do you know that she based the character Howard Roark on her husband Frank O'Connor?
Well, the funny thing here is that Roark and Frank were both extremely Alpha hardass men. They embraced their testosterone and lived life by the balls. Kind of like what you advocate and what I actually do.
However, along comes this smooth talking psychologist by the name of Nathanial Branden (who later became the father of the modern Self Esteem movement), and he gets to seduce Ayn Rand and compells her to work out some perverted agreement with Frank where Rand can continues to get plowed by Branden, while Frank accepts the arrangement as being inevitable and continues to support Rand and be a good little AFC husband.
The reason I bring this up is that I would really like your take on it. Nathaniel Branden had game and embraced his testosterone, Frank O'Connor embraced his testosterone and had no game. Who ended up with the girl (I know she was ugly and old, but whatever, looks aren't everything). What is your take on this?
Had Branden not seduced Rand, the latter would not have been able to finish Atlas Shrugged. However, Branden ended up cheating on her and falling in love with someone else, and this pretty much killed the Objectivist movement, and turned it into the wierd bunch of right winger nut cases that it is today.
Wouldn't you rather learn how to succeed with women from a guy like Branden, than a guy like Frank? Also, Branden was more than just a "seducer" who had nothing else going for him in his life. He was extremely accomplished in his career and continues to be influential in his field. I know I digressed from this importan thread by bringing up Rand and Branden, but I'd like your take on it if you have an opinion on that.
Cheers,
Cesare Cardinali
I just don't get how you thought my Field Report has anything to do with SS? It was NOT an SS post. There were no patterns, no eliciting values, nothing. I was just approaching a bunch of girls and talking enthusiastically about what a great guy I am and my interests. And then I went for a phone number or a coffee date. That's it, that's all. Could you please explain what made it an SS post? If anything, the method I used had more to do with what YOU teach, than with anything SS.
Dude, you sound pretty nutty when you write like that. Seriously. I expected a line like that from Page, but not from you.
In the Bible (the real one) it says: "And God said "let there be light" and "light appeared". Maybe we can add a line in the DJ bible: And Cesare Cardinali said: "Pook...Pook, where are you?" and Pook appeared".
And you say you're not a hollier than thou guru. Admit it! You're busted!
Dude, that thing was a joke and I thought a funny one quite frankly. You were saying, in your "What I learned" thread, that guys will get consumed by seduction and I turned it around to say that you need some guidance in order to avoid this problem.
Can't you not be so serious for once and realize the great irony here in that guys like PDX and myself are probably the only two on Sosuave who have taken the time to read and absorbe all of your posts and can debate it properly with you? I find it amazing quite frankly. Most AFC newbies who'd just as soon get on their knees and praise the Lord for a chance at discussing this stuff with you, probably couldn't elaborate on "Pook Method" for more than the simple "Be a Man" battle cry. But PDX and myself can get into the nitty gritty and its a lot of fun for me; And I hope for you too. So I don't get why you seem so pissed all the time.
Hell dude, I'm flattered that you've taken such an interest in my posts and my development and that you keep jumping into my posts. And I agree with PDX when he says that we are not that far off and would probably agree with each other if it wasn't so much fun to debate this stuff.
hahahahah... What did I expect? I expected you to laugh. Did you notice that before and after I posted that line about you needing some guidance there was this symbol
and this one . Sense of humor is really important dude, women like it. Oh sh*t, you see what I just did? I just tailored myself for a woman with the whole "women like it bit". Ok, let me rephrase. "Sense of humour is really important. It feels good to laugh at yourself once in a while". Pook, you got all that Apollo Dyonisian stuff from Neitzche (spelling?) right? or did you get it from Ayn Rand? I know that you are or were a fan of Ayn Rand (I am too
) and do you know that she based the character Howard Roark on her husband Frank O'Connor? Well, the funny thing here is that Roark and Frank were both extremely Alpha hardass men. They embraced their testosterone and lived life by the balls. Kind of like what you advocate and what I actually do.
However, along comes this smooth talking psychologist by the name of Nathanial Branden (who later became the father of the modern Self Esteem movement), and he gets to seduce Ayn Rand and compells her to work out some perverted agreement with Frank where Rand can continues to get plowed by Branden, while Frank accepts the arrangement as being inevitable and continues to support Rand and be a good little AFC husband.
The reason I bring this up is that I would really like your take on it. Nathaniel Branden had game and embraced his testosterone, Frank O'Connor embraced his testosterone and had no game. Who ended up with the girl (I know she was ugly and old, but whatever, looks aren't everything). What is your take on this?
Had Branden not seduced Rand, the latter would not have been able to finish Atlas Shrugged. However, Branden ended up cheating on her and falling in love with someone else, and this pretty much killed the Objectivist movement, and turned it into the wierd bunch of right winger nut cases that it is today.
Wouldn't you rather learn how to succeed with women from a guy like Branden, than a guy like Frank? Also, Branden was more than just a "seducer" who had nothing else going for him in his life. He was extremely accomplished in his career and continues to be influential in his field. I know I digressed from this importan thread by bringing up Rand and Branden, but I'd like your take on it if you have an opinion on that.
Dude, I don't remember saying that. Who were you quoting there?
Cheers,
Cesare Cardinali
De La Soul
Master Don Juan
No, not as such. But this is...
That seems to qualify as a philosophy, as defined by the sosuave.com dictionary-of-choice, webster.com...
"c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought <the philosophy of war> <philosophy of science>
4 a : the most general beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group b : calmness of temper and judgment befitting a philosopher "
Yes. At the end.
I agree.
Great. So you agree? Not everything has to be new to be valid.
OK.
- DLS
diplomatic_lies
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2002
- Messages
- 4,368
- Reaction score
- 8
I also think you've proved some guy on this forum's point (forgot name) about making women the focus of your life.
Also, I think its a bad idea to date other women when I'm in an exclusive relationship. Some DJs advocate cheating, but I don't.
SexPDX
Master Don Juan
Pook, it's NOT SS! That is what we have all been trying to tell you! You keep calling it that and I keep having to rehash what kind of PU/seduction/interaction is or is not "SS" until I am blue in the face. Hahaha!
Please be somewhat attentive to terminology. For better or worse you and I are both influencial posters on this forum and in expressing our views we should be careful not to confuse others about facts.
In fact, most people here seem to think the mASF forum at fastseduction.com is ALL about SS when discussion of SS is actually exception rather than the norm there and it's been that way for YEARS.
Judging from the sounds of your posts you haven't been over there in a while. A "toolbox" way of looking at things has become popular in ASF lately which is a way of incorporating elements of many styles as encouraged by Formhandle, TokyoPUA and others. Guys who look at it this way see SS more as a tool than a method itself. I too subscribe to this toolbox way of looking at things but Juggler's approach is basically the backbone of my overall style anymore.
I don't know that it's to make interactions more "casual" but it is designed to develop strong rapport quicky. Juggler encourages WIDE rapport (being able to talk about ANYTHING) rather than DEEP rapport (being able to talk A LOT about a more limited range of things). It's all about being expressive and targeting WIDE RANGES of expression.
There is stuff I didn't cover in that post. You can go download the Juggler archive on this page if you are interested in reading more about his approach:
http://www.fastseduction.com/archives/
I would like to see that, although I am not sure how the marketing/business logistics would work out in that case.
I know. It's not the SS ANYONE is used to because it is NOT SS! LOL!
Not sure in what frame you mean "seduction" here but I'll give it a shot.
If you mean the "endgame" then we didn't cover to much of that in the workshop partly because it's hard to have in field demonstrations of the endgame. We mostly saw the beginning and middle game at least for the parts when all three of us were present. Also, Juggler knew that Stormwolf and I had both been with enough women that that was probably not too much of a problem.
As far as Juggler's overall view of seduction, it's a cooperative effort. The woman should be seducing you as well as you seducing her. A lot of his ideas are about demonstrating the behavior, communication and psychological makeup of an attractive person so you appear as someone the woman WANTS to seduce.
I believe she DID seduce me. I would not have said that to her if I did not believe it. And what is wrong with that?
Pook, YOU are the one who looks at it as being "used and discarded". Why does anyone have to be using and discarding anyone? That's a twisted way to look at sex and interaction between men and women IMO. And the reality is that she DIDN'T use and discard me. Her and I still talk on the phone about once a week and have really good conversations and have very strong rapport. The rapport I am talking about is not a joke, it's real.
As for people being more honest after sex, I was honest with her about everything other than that I was a trained seductionist. I would have told her that but since there was a sedcution going on that would have been rude. It would have ruined her enjoyment of the seduction because she knew how it would end. It'd be like if you were watching The Crying Game for the first time and someone yelled out "she's a guy!"
Whichever way of looking at it helps you most is the way to go. Something like whether or not women are targets or arrows is too subjective to argue back and forth about. It is an interesting frame for PU though.
You could look at it this way OR you can say that I was able to get myself into a situation where I was able to sleep comfortably for an entire night for the first time in 3 days and I managed to have sex with an attractive women in the process. OR you can say both. You can say that it was a GOOD THING FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED. Imagine that!
Why all this thought about who has what power? Forget power EXISTS! It doesn't exist. It's something you have conjured up in your head. If you have files on your computer about men and women having power over each other with regards to seduction, consider deleting them. Even if there is truth to it, I don't see what good it does to think so much about it.
I have no interest in making women angry. Why are you being a puzzy-tease? That's just cruel.
Again this power frame about people trying to "conquer" each other. WHY?
And you are happy about this? I am beginning to understand the conflict you and I have in discussing things. You are not into sex. You are not into interacting with women. You are into pissing them off by doing things that reaffirm to YOU that you have some kind of "power" over them.
I think you have read to many books by AFC philosophers. The only conquering going on is in imaginary battles you have postulated in your twisted imagination.
BINGO! NOOOOW you're catchin' on!
I agree. That's why you keep your claws sharp. That's why to be any good interacting with women has to be something you genuinely enjoy. That's why when I do get into a LTR I want it to be with a HSE chick who gets hit on enough herself not to get all jealous freak out when I am seeing talking to another chick even if that's all I want to do is TALK to her.
-PDX
Giovanni Casanova
Master Don Juan
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*raises hand*
Damn, this is one looooong ass thread!
Pook:
)
This was until I started getting the same reactions. This example: "the women... they all love you!" is similar to what I have experienced recently.
What does it mean? I think that it means that the women are trying to get attention, because I will not go out of my way to give it. I am focused on my job, and they want attention. When I do give them attention, for one reason or another, it is good attention. That is, it is not "dorky/nerdy" conversation, it is funny, and flirty type. Since I am already deemed "worthy" they try to get more attention.
The "coworker" in this example probably trys to get attention from women. I have done this before, and it is like they can already sense that they have "won", therefore they do not need to put any effort forth. They save thier efforts for the "hard to catch" guy.
Got more to write, but no time...
Pook:
Just because people get thier panties all in a bunch when you write a giant essay for sosuave.com does not mean that you should stop posting! If anything, it should hint that you should post more to clear up the misconceptions. (Which you have done, obviously!
)This is a great example of how I used to be. Although, I came to this site looking for "how can I tell that she likes me" hints, (since my then oneitis was not a sexually forward girl like the ones I had before, forcing me to make the first moves) I can attest to the fact that women will destroy your life if you are weak. I failed out of school because I was too busy having fun with women, worrying about women, attracting women, etc. Sexual desire can overrun your life and lull you into a false sense of security...since, after all, you ARE still getting laid, right?
Okay, I want to clear something up. I used to think that this type of "Pook-bragging" was evidence of 'success' over women. Pook says that all these women are using thier 'weapons' to get him. I used to think "wow, maybe I will reach that level of mastery someday!" I used to think that Pookie mastered the 'raw attraction' power somehow.
This was until I started getting the same reactions. This example: "the women... they all love you!" is similar to what I have experienced recently.
What does it mean? I think that it means that the women are trying to get attention, because I will not go out of my way to give it. I am focused on my job, and they want attention. When I do give them attention, for one reason or another, it is good attention. That is, it is not "dorky/nerdy" conversation, it is funny, and flirty type. Since I am already deemed "worthy" they try to get more attention.
The "coworker" in this example probably trys to get attention from women. I have done this before, and it is like they can already sense that they have "won", therefore they do not need to put any effort forth. They save thier efforts for the "hard to catch" guy.
Yup, this is probably the reason why women "love" people like us (DJs)! We all can interact better because we learn to focus on our own reactions, not worry about others.
Got more to write, but no time...
You’re missing the point. It’s human nature, in most cases, to strive for things that are bigger, better and more efficient. People come up with methods and theories to aid their natural ability (which all people have a different level of ). Another reason is that they seek to repeatedly and consistently carry out what they do as opposed to relying on chance.
Is a seduction workshop irrelevant to increasing one’s seduction abilities? No, so it wouldn’t be irrelevant to you, and that’s the issue here. Get that through your stubborn brain.
More like don’t flatter yourself. I could care less about your skill set. We think your skills suck. That doesn’t mean I care. It’s just my opinion. So lets leave it at that.
Yes I do take pride in giving criticism. So what? It’s a topic I’m skilled in and enjoy. Getting women is one of my hobbies. I’m a professional at it and so I like to stay on top of my game. I could be pulling more 10’s than I am now and I still won’t be satisfied.
If you’re satisfied with sub par skills then fine. But this is an advice centered board and its only natural to make recommendations to those who we believe need them. So expect to receive lots of recommendations on how to improve your game. It’s not that hard to understand. If we think you need advice, we’ll give you advice. We don’t have any kind of favorites. You’re just like any other poster.
I have no problem. I help make sluts. I’m the one who knew why sluts are sluts. Unless you were both naked and you were just about to put your d*ck in her mouth or pus*y, then having “opportunities” to sleep with good looking sluts is not the same as actually doing it.
Last minute resistance is one of the major obstacles you need to be skilled at overcoming, so you wouldn’t be able to say you could do it unless you actually did it. But hey, if you’re into having women as emotional tampons (companions or feelings buddies) then that’s fine by me. You’ll still get pointers here on how to make her want to have sex with you more quickly. Maybe you should start giving advice on how to have non-sexual relationships. We could make a “Non-Sexual Seduction” forum.
Unbridled_1
Senior Don Juan
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originally posted by diplomatic_lies:
The little guy is delusional. Is she a real girl or just a character in your "diplomacy games" that you play all day.
It gets quite annoying. Example: Women at work, at my two jobs, come up to me and just blurt out random thoughts. I'll just be doing whatever, when out of the blue a woman will just talk to herself. Whenever it happens, I know what she's trying to do, she wants to talk to me. It's especially annoying when a whole schlew of women do it!
[Just when I think I've seen every bizarre thing that happens in this thing called Womaniverse, some new bizarre thing comes along!]
And then when I do show interest, my goodness the floodgates open! Touch! Talk! There are certain women I purposefully avoid talking to, to keep their dam up! I keep it at "Hello". Imagine that, I used to love to find just one woman interested in me, and here I am having to keep myself in strict reserves... And here people question the value of "focus on yourself." In fact, when I tell people I just focus on myself, they think I'm crazy, they say "No, it doesn't work that way".
Giovanni Casanova
Master Don Juan
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Is taking a workshop on the LSAT helpful for someone who is already a lawyer? I'm already where I want to be. I have absolutely no use for a pathetic workshop that will supposedly teach me how to "get women" when I already have one that I'm more than happy with. Get that through your stubborn brain.
It's impossible to have an opinion about something and also not care about it. So again, while I'm extremely flattered that you care so much about my "skill set", rest assured that I not only could I care less about your skill set, I also don't care what you think of mine.
I agree. Pretty much any guy can have sex with a slut if he wants to. But it takes character, integrity and self-respect to decline the opportunity
I am currently in a committed relationship, which is highly sexual in nature and which satisfies me completely. As such, I think I'll pass on whatever "pointers" you think you might have for me. Once again, this is a case of the guy at the bottom of the mountain trying to teach the guy on top how to climb mountains.You’ll still get pointers here on how to make her want to have sex with you more quickly. Maybe you should start giving advice on how to have non-sexual relationships. We could make a “Non-Sexual Seduction” forum.
Holy sh*t!!!!!
What a display of egotistical CRAP!!!
The fact that you guys have the time to sit and write all this sh*t just boggles my mind. GET a LIFE!!!
As an outside observer I see:
Arrogance
Braggadocio
People who claim to be "Men"
Pretentiousness
Slander
Argumentation
AND....MOST OF ALL....
A BUNCH OF INTELLECTUAL DORKS WHO HAVE WAAAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS SO THEY ARGUE FOR HOURS ABOUT NONSENSE ON AN INTERNET DISCUSSION FORUM. ALL THE TIME BELIEVING THAT THEY MAY GAIN THE RESPECT FROM THE OTHER PEOPLE HERE. PEOPLE THEY WILL PROBABLY NEVER MEET.
You're arguing about philosophy and this method and that method. Who the fvck cares! There are a million ways to do everything in this world. Why argue? What a waste of time.
If anything you are losing the respect of people here.
It is all VERY sad. You people have been here too long and are taking this stuff way too seriously. I saw mention of the game DUNGEONS and DRAGONS in an earlier post and that doesn't suprise me. I've seen behaviour like this from many of "Dungeons and Dragon" types. Many of you ARE living in a fantasy world. You think that because you put your 20 sided dice away that you are different.
STEP BACK and take a look at this post from the eyes of an outsider. I'm sure some of you may feel a little embarrassed.
Many of you are acting like a bunch of childish GEEKS.
The funny part is you are being pretentious an arrogant while doing it.
I WOULD LOVE TO TAKE SOME OF THE WOMEN IN YOUR LIVES AND SHOW THEM THIS THREAD OF DISCUSSION.
LOOOOOSERS!
What a display of egotistical CRAP!!!
The fact that you guys have the time to sit and write all this sh*t just boggles my mind. GET a LIFE!!!
As an outside observer I see:
Arrogance
Braggadocio
People who claim to be "Men"
Pretentiousness
Slander
Argumentation
AND....MOST OF ALL....
A BUNCH OF INTELLECTUAL DORKS WHO HAVE WAAAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS SO THEY ARGUE FOR HOURS ABOUT NONSENSE ON AN INTERNET DISCUSSION FORUM. ALL THE TIME BELIEVING THAT THEY MAY GAIN THE RESPECT FROM THE OTHER PEOPLE HERE. PEOPLE THEY WILL PROBABLY NEVER MEET.
You're arguing about philosophy and this method and that method. Who the fvck cares! There are a million ways to do everything in this world. Why argue? What a waste of time.
If anything you are losing the respect of people here.
It is all VERY sad. You people have been here too long and are taking this stuff way too seriously. I saw mention of the game DUNGEONS and DRAGONS in an earlier post and that doesn't suprise me. I've seen behaviour like this from many of "Dungeons and Dragon" types. Many of you ARE living in a fantasy world. You think that because you put your 20 sided dice away that you are different.
STEP BACK and take a look at this post from the eyes of an outsider. I'm sure some of you may feel a little embarrassed.
Many of you are acting like a bunch of childish GEEKS.
The funny part is you are being pretentious an arrogant while doing it.
I WOULD LOVE TO TAKE SOME OF THE WOMEN IN YOUR LIVES AND SHOW THEM THIS THREAD OF DISCUSSION.
LOOOOOSERS!
Continuing from my previous post...
Pook:
I don't really think that power has anything to do with it. But if you have any "proof" (for lack of a better term) I am all ears (or eyes...)
It is easier to label women as an enemy/enigma/souless being than to actually realize that they are people too. (I thought that way for a while and it made me more relaxed with women because I thought "Oh, well, who cares...she is just trying to conquer me!" Now, I think that women are kinda like passive-agressive men with no drive...if that makes any sense.) In my opinion, Weininger was right about women being all sexual (of course they are, just listen to what they TALK about ALL THE TIME) but I think that he concluded that they were "souless" because he was AFRAID of women. He was afraid of his own sexuality.
I hope that I am not understanding you correctly when you say that women try to "conquer" men, because you have been at this (DJ forum/improving life/succeeding/etc.) for so long.
Pook:
Is it power or just ability to attract attention. I think that it is the latter. Girls need to reassure themselves that they can attract attention from men. This way, they never worry about finding someone to go halves on them for a baby (main goal for women) because they know that they can get a man just by walking down the street.
I don't really think that power has anything to do with it. But if you have any "proof" (for lack of a better term) I am all ears (or eyes...)
I used to be confused back in my AFC days when women would become bittchy to me almost overnight. In fact, my oneitis started acting like a bittch to me, and I was pretty confused. I realized later that she was really into me (she would loose her train of thought when I looked her in the eye, she would give me offhand complments on my looks, she would always try to "sexualize" herself to me, etc.) and she became bittchy to me the exact same day that I pretty much ignored her at a "gathering". (Too busy talking to other people...)
Women get horny too, as I am sure you know. They just don't have the drive to go after what they want. They only entice YOU to go after what YOU want.
Pook!? This seems just a little creepy! Calling sexuality a "battle" between the masculine and the feminine? Acting like women are trying to "conquer" you? Women know not what they do, she was just doing what is in her nature to do to get what she wanted (sex/union). (Although a case can be made that sex is the conquerer of man, since he should be out doing other things, but I don't think that it has the "evil" connotation as "conquer" does...) I hope you still don't think this way Pookie boy! In my first post, I commented that I finally believed that women ARE sexuality. I alluded to "Sex and Character" by Weininger. You then advised me to burn/delete the book because it will lead me down a trail of depression. I hope you followed your own advice, because I am just not understanding this whole "conquer" thing.
It is easier to label women as an enemy/enigma/souless being than to actually realize that they are people too. (I thought that way for a while and it made me more relaxed with women because I thought "Oh, well, who cares...she is just trying to conquer me!" Now, I think that women are kinda like passive-agressive men with no drive...if that makes any sense.) In my opinion, Weininger was right about women being all sexual (of course they are, just listen to what they TALK about ALL THE TIME) but I think that he concluded that they were "souless" because he was AFRAID of women. He was afraid of his own sexuality.
I hope that I am not understanding you correctly when you say that women try to "conquer" men, because you have been at this (DJ forum/improving life/succeeding/etc.) for so long.
Amen to that, but this does not mean that we should avoid them because of this. For what good is running away from something that may break you? Not to say that we should crawl into the belly of the beast living a life of laziness and debauchery, but it is not good either to totally avoid the fairer sex because they have "power" more than we know.
Deep Dish
Whenever I am getting attention from a woman that I don't want, I just annoy them or piss them off. Once they "get the hint" they will convince themselves that they do not want you, and they will "cool off" a bit. (One girl that I ticked off--see below: "I don't know why I thought you were hot anyways!")
This one chick was getting real flirty with me, and I was sick of it. So I started to annoy her every chance I got. Eventually, it pissed her off and she left me alone and went for another guy. They are still together right now. (Aww, ice the matchmaker...how sweet...)
Be careful Deep Dish, "focusing on yourself" does not mean total alienation of women. If you find yourself shunning broads that you are genuinely interested in for no good reason, then that should show you that you may have some deeper problems.
I have faith that you are doing the right thing though.
It is not that bizarre. They want to talk to you, they want to feel that rush of sexuality, they want to be human. If you truthfully want them to leave you alone, there are ways. If all you are interested in is boosting your ego, proving to yourself that you are desireable to women (NOT that I am saying that YOU do, I am just saying this because I used to be kind of an "attention whoore") then it is easy to think "geez, I just cannot get them off of me!"
Whenever I am getting attention from a woman that I don't want, I just annoy them or piss them off. Once they "get the hint" they will convince themselves that they do not want you, and they will "cool off" a bit. (One girl that I ticked off--see below: "I don't know why I thought you were hot anyways!")
This one chick was getting real flirty with me, and I was sick of it. So I started to annoy her every chance I got. Eventually, it pissed her off and she left me alone and went for another guy. They are still together right now. (Aww, ice the matchmaker...how sweet...)
Be careful Deep Dish, "focusing on yourself" does not mean total alienation of women. If you find yourself shunning broads that you are genuinely interested in for no good reason, then that should show you that you may have some deeper problems.
I have faith that you are doing the right thing though.
De La Soul
There is a difference between prescriptive and descriptive. This is how Pook can say that he does not have any "philosophy" and yet still write things that look (to us) like "tips".
Those things written in his posts merely describe what a man does. It does not prescribe what we should do to be men.
Descriptions are always different to different people.
SexPDX
Slickster
Yeah, and I saw the smiley face at the end, I know you had your tounge in your cheek. I hope...
There is a difference between prescriptive and descriptive. This is how Pook can say that he does not have any "philosophy" and yet still write things that look (to us) like "tips".
Those things written in his posts merely describe what a man does. It does not prescribe what we should do to be men.
Descriptions are always different to different people.
SexPDX
Focusing on yourself includes working on your "game" or whatever the hell it is that you want to call it. People that don't want to improve thier social skills and simply leave the forum after reading a Pook post are imbeciles and did not understand what he meant.
Yes, and the "grand mission" includes working on your "game", feeling confortable with people (and women), expressing yourself clearly and calmly, etc., etc.
Yeah, this is true. However, I think you said this before, but Pook is just not hearing it. (There is a LOT of words in this thread and the others in which yall have argued in...)
Slickster
Hey, that was my thought after reading your post.
Oh, you mean by posting things that are similar to this:
right?
Look now who is being pretentious and arrogant while complaining about people who are being pretentious and arrogant! You are not being any better. Don't fall to the same level as the retards who post all thier garbage.
Do you really think that they would even care? Most of it doesn't even apply to women, they wouldn't understand. How can a woman know what it is like going from an AFC to something better? The subject would be lost on them. They would say "oh, it is just man stuff...it is all that testosterone that makes them act so macho...blah, blah, blah."
Yeah, and I saw the smiley face at the end, I know you had your tounge in your cheek. I hope...
SexPDX, Cesare, De la Soul, etc.
Finally found the word I was searching for: Neuro Linguistic Programming. That's what I consider 'Speed Seduction' to be for the most part.
Trickynick, I remembered you got into the SS thing in the past. The 'lay report' and the language spoken (increasing rapport, changing targets, etc.) obviously is a feature of SS. It all sounded and smelled like the typical SS.
I'll check up on the changes in the seduction boards...
Icepick
You saved a lot of typing for me. Thanks!
Pook says that all these women are using thier 'weapons' to get him. I used to think "wow, maybe I will reach that level of mastery someday!" I used to think that Pookie mastered the 'raw attraction' power somehow.
Really? That's how some of you guys looked at it?
Interesting.
I think that it means that the women are trying to get attention, because I will not go out of my way to give it.
Although its true women love attention especially from certain guys (and they want certain guys to go away), I wasn't referring to attention.
Women, all women, have some special sense about them. They are emissaries of Nature and seem to select the same type of guy. We've heard all the usual 'qualities' that women are supposed to love: 'confidence, style, alpha-maleish' etc.
Some people think I'm saying to be some 'ideal guy'. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nature has its own system. When we go against it due to whatever reason, we experience pain, sorrow, etc. When we reorient ourselves with it, everything changes.
Changing from an AFC to a Don Juan, older women did not think I was a 'Don Juan'. Rather, they thought that I had 'grown up'. From my perspective, I had changed. From their perspective, I had 'corrected' whatever errors were within me.
Going from AFC to Don Juan, on this forum we think it is 'changing'. But to the women, they see it as being as we should be.
After all, what is an AFC but artificial philosophies to mask his own hideousness in not following his true Nature? "But I am so nice! Why do the women run from me?"
That's what it's all about: embracing your sexuality, being a man, and enjoying life. There is no 'philosphy' in that. Women don't even know why they like a certain guy. They are just following their nature.
There is a certain nature in being a man. If we listed descriptive qualities of it, the best we could do is only imitate it. I've found for me the best thing seems to be mindset. If someone said, "Women like fun guys." Well, how do you turn yourself into a fun guy? What posts can be read that makes you 'fun'? Nothing, really. It takes a type of attitudinal adjustment. You can't just stop LOOKING serious, you have to stop thinking that way.
One problem I had was taking everything so damn seriously. I would be reading, writing essays for stuff, and so on. I knew that 'women want to go out and have fun'. I would force myself to go out and 'try to have fun'. As you can imagine, the results were not too good. It took a 'tweak' in how I was viewing life. Yes, the result was me getting much more girls but the bigger thing I realized that I was embracing life as it should be.
We hear that women like 'ambition'. The point is not to become 'ambitious' and just think up some crazy goals. Rather, it is another 'tweak' in the life compass. You have dreams and you want to pursue them. By embracing your dreams, you gain much much more out of life. Sure enough, women love men who do that.
That is why I say I used to LOOK for love but now I'm REACHING for life.
You have a mirror in front of you. You can see your physical features. But women are also a mirror. They have some type of ability to see things that we can't. Sure, many women can be stupid and go for the wrong guys like jerks (but we know, espeically the young ones, WHY they go for those type of guys now).
From so many successful men I've talked to (one already has his first million), they have told me, "Pook, I could not have done what I did without my wife. In times of trial, in times of doubt, she said, 'Do what you think is best'. She gave me the confidence to sail through my darkest paths." Kierkegaard says that men do not have an ego until they have a woman (which explains why oversexed males have super egos). Women can be a corrective agent. Taking women's values seriously (as in what they all tend to drift towards), I've changed myself through women more than any religion, philosophy, and education could. But I don't feel its a 'change', I feel like I'm more 'in tune' with life now.
If someone asked me why these women like me more than that other guy, I'd reply the only way I could, "It's because I'm more of a Man than he." Of course, that can be misinterpreted in so many ways. I am not some guy who is trying to aspire to some 'ideal man'ness, I noticed that my life was on 'static'. Using women's perspective, I am slowly re-tuning myself to life. There is still some static but its slowly slowly going away and my reception on life gets clearer.
Is it power or just ability to attract attention. I think that it is the latter.
There was a woman in her 30s or 40s that I had an interesting convo with. She was one of those rare women who 'got honest' (and if there are any females reading this, I mean 'honest' in the way of not giving cliched answers). I bounced my ideas off her. She gave some surprising replies. She hated the feminists. One thing she said was, "I would be a female in any age but I would not be a male in THIS age" agreeing with me on how anti-male / anti-sexuality society has become (why are movies like the Matrix popular? It shows us breaking out of our androgenous).
She said something I couldn't believe: "Women will not marry a man they cannot control." I thought it was the opposite. Women love challenge. They will go for the guys they can't control like certain jerks.
She said that women do love challenge but they love challenge because it is a game of their own power. If a girl sleeps with you on the first instant, something in our nature dislikes the girl for doing that. And if the Nice Guy says "I love you!" and "Let me do anything for you!" to a woman, the woman has something in her nature that tells her to dislike THAT. Yet, we men love sex and women love guys who are 'committed, nice, etc.' It's almost a contradiction.
She insisted that it was the case. "Women love to control men." After all, a woman who gets the love of a doctor or lawyer considers herself 'very feminine' and 'very powerful'. She will consider that she has to 'train you' and sometimes 'recreate you'. We know that many women go for a bad boy in order to 'change him'. Young chicks make that mistake all the time.
Listening to women's conversations seemed to show it. "My fiance is going to start saving money... he just doesn't know it yet." At one point, I had the women angry at me. I asked an older lady friend, "Why are they mad at me?" "Silly Pook!" she replied. "It is because you aren't acting the way they want you to."
In our universe, beauty and power are two. In Womineverse, it is one. If a guy ignores the women, the women will not have it. They will say, "He must be gay!" They don't want to think they aren't 'woman enough'.
They get horny about the guys they can't control. Doc Love's 'System' revolves entirely around this. They want to control what they can't control. Say stuff like "I love you!" and call them ten times a day, it is not that they do not like love and calling people. It is because you are now in their control, you have been 'conquered'. Women love drama and even when guys 'break dates' and frustrate them because it shows they aren't firmly in their control. She has to work at being feminine. She will love this. She will even sleep with guys that do this thinking that they will fall in love. We all know how the 'challenge' factor can work.
But ask yourself this: how can women control and reshape if they themselves are amoral, soulless, etc. and take on OUR values and OUR dreams? The error comes with viewing women in a vacuum. We must look at sexuality and not confine it to one sex or the other.
I don't possess the language to describe the effect but it literally becomes a 'two who are made one flesh' in the most strangest sense possible. Neither sex 'conquers'. It is two parts of Nature fitting together.
Finally found the word I was searching for: Neuro Linguistic Programming. That's what I consider 'Speed Seduction' to be for the most part.
Trickynick, I remembered you got into the SS thing in the past. The 'lay report' and the language spoken (increasing rapport, changing targets, etc.) obviously is a feature of SS. It all sounded and smelled like the typical SS.
I'll check up on the changes in the seduction boards...
Icepick
You saved a lot of typing for me. Thanks!
Pook says that all these women are using thier 'weapons' to get him. I used to think "wow, maybe I will reach that level of mastery someday!" I used to think that Pookie mastered the 'raw attraction' power somehow.
Really? That's how some of you guys looked at it?
Interesting.
I think that it means that the women are trying to get attention, because I will not go out of my way to give it.
Although its true women love attention especially from certain guys (and they want certain guys to go away), I wasn't referring to attention.
Women, all women, have some special sense about them. They are emissaries of Nature and seem to select the same type of guy. We've heard all the usual 'qualities' that women are supposed to love: 'confidence, style, alpha-maleish' etc.
Some people think I'm saying to be some 'ideal guy'. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nature has its own system. When we go against it due to whatever reason, we experience pain, sorrow, etc. When we reorient ourselves with it, everything changes.
Changing from an AFC to a Don Juan, older women did not think I was a 'Don Juan'. Rather, they thought that I had 'grown up'. From my perspective, I had changed. From their perspective, I had 'corrected' whatever errors were within me.
Going from AFC to Don Juan, on this forum we think it is 'changing'. But to the women, they see it as being as we should be.
After all, what is an AFC but artificial philosophies to mask his own hideousness in not following his true Nature? "But I am so nice! Why do the women run from me?"
That's what it's all about: embracing your sexuality, being a man, and enjoying life. There is no 'philosphy' in that. Women don't even know why they like a certain guy. They are just following their nature.
There is a certain nature in being a man. If we listed descriptive qualities of it, the best we could do is only imitate it. I've found for me the best thing seems to be mindset. If someone said, "Women like fun guys." Well, how do you turn yourself into a fun guy? What posts can be read that makes you 'fun'? Nothing, really. It takes a type of attitudinal adjustment. You can't just stop LOOKING serious, you have to stop thinking that way.
One problem I had was taking everything so damn seriously. I would be reading, writing essays for stuff, and so on. I knew that 'women want to go out and have fun'. I would force myself to go out and 'try to have fun'. As you can imagine, the results were not too good. It took a 'tweak' in how I was viewing life. Yes, the result was me getting much more girls but the bigger thing I realized that I was embracing life as it should be.
We hear that women like 'ambition'. The point is not to become 'ambitious' and just think up some crazy goals. Rather, it is another 'tweak' in the life compass. You have dreams and you want to pursue them. By embracing your dreams, you gain much much more out of life. Sure enough, women love men who do that.
That is why I say I used to LOOK for love but now I'm REACHING for life.
You have a mirror in front of you. You can see your physical features. But women are also a mirror. They have some type of ability to see things that we can't. Sure, many women can be stupid and go for the wrong guys like jerks (but we know, espeically the young ones, WHY they go for those type of guys now).
From so many successful men I've talked to (one already has his first million), they have told me, "Pook, I could not have done what I did without my wife. In times of trial, in times of doubt, she said, 'Do what you think is best'. She gave me the confidence to sail through my darkest paths." Kierkegaard says that men do not have an ego until they have a woman (which explains why oversexed males have super egos). Women can be a corrective agent. Taking women's values seriously (as in what they all tend to drift towards), I've changed myself through women more than any religion, philosophy, and education could. But I don't feel its a 'change', I feel like I'm more 'in tune' with life now.
If someone asked me why these women like me more than that other guy, I'd reply the only way I could, "It's because I'm more of a Man than he." Of course, that can be misinterpreted in so many ways. I am not some guy who is trying to aspire to some 'ideal man'ness, I noticed that my life was on 'static'. Using women's perspective, I am slowly re-tuning myself to life. There is still some static but its slowly slowly going away and my reception on life gets clearer.
Is it power or just ability to attract attention. I think that it is the latter.
There was a woman in her 30s or 40s that I had an interesting convo with. She was one of those rare women who 'got honest' (and if there are any females reading this, I mean 'honest' in the way of not giving cliched answers). I bounced my ideas off her. She gave some surprising replies. She hated the feminists. One thing she said was, "I would be a female in any age but I would not be a male in THIS age" agreeing with me on how anti-male / anti-sexuality society has become (why are movies like the Matrix popular? It shows us breaking out of our androgenous).
She said something I couldn't believe: "Women will not marry a man they cannot control." I thought it was the opposite. Women love challenge. They will go for the guys they can't control like certain jerks.
She said that women do love challenge but they love challenge because it is a game of their own power. If a girl sleeps with you on the first instant, something in our nature dislikes the girl for doing that. And if the Nice Guy says "I love you!" and "Let me do anything for you!" to a woman, the woman has something in her nature that tells her to dislike THAT. Yet, we men love sex and women love guys who are 'committed, nice, etc.' It's almost a contradiction.
She insisted that it was the case. "Women love to control men." After all, a woman who gets the love of a doctor or lawyer considers herself 'very feminine' and 'very powerful'. She will consider that she has to 'train you' and sometimes 'recreate you'. We know that many women go for a bad boy in order to 'change him'. Young chicks make that mistake all the time.
Listening to women's conversations seemed to show it. "My fiance is going to start saving money... he just doesn't know it yet." At one point, I had the women angry at me. I asked an older lady friend, "Why are they mad at me?" "Silly Pook!" she replied. "It is because you aren't acting the way they want you to."
In our universe, beauty and power are two. In Womineverse, it is one. If a guy ignores the women, the women will not have it. They will say, "He must be gay!" They don't want to think they aren't 'woman enough'.
They get horny about the guys they can't control. Doc Love's 'System' revolves entirely around this. They want to control what they can't control. Say stuff like "I love you!" and call them ten times a day, it is not that they do not like love and calling people. It is because you are now in their control, you have been 'conquered'. Women love drama and even when guys 'break dates' and frustrate them because it shows they aren't firmly in their control. She has to work at being feminine. She will love this. She will even sleep with guys that do this thinking that they will fall in love. We all know how the 'challenge' factor can work.
But ask yourself this: how can women control and reshape if they themselves are amoral, soulless, etc. and take on OUR values and OUR dreams? The error comes with viewing women in a vacuum. We must look at sexuality and not confine it to one sex or the other.
I don't possess the language to describe the effect but it literally becomes a 'two who are made one flesh' in the most strangest sense possible. Neither sex 'conquers'. It is two parts of Nature fitting together.
I realized later that she was really into me (she would loose her train of thought when I looked her in the eye, she would give me offhand complments on my looks, she would always try to "sexualize" herself to me, etc.) and she became bittchy to me the exact same day that I pretty much ignored her at a "gathering". (Too busy talking to other people...)
Hahahaha.
In Womaniverse, there is one criminal: It is a man who is invited to a woman's bed and he does not go.
Pook!? This seems just a little creepy! Calling sexuality a "battle" between the masculine and the feminine? Acting like women are trying to "conquer" you? Women know not what they do, she was just doing what is in her nature to do to get what she wanted (sex/union).
I didn't call it a battle. Men may try to conquer the world, but women conquer men.
In my first post, I commented that I finally believed that women ARE sexuality. I alluded to "Sex and Character" by Weininger. You then advised me to burn/delete the book because it will lead me down a trail of depression. I hope you followed your own advice, because I am just not understanding this whole "conquer" thing.
Yes, I've burned my Weineger book. Don't view 'conquer' in the traditional sense. If women are sexuality, wouldn't in their eyes the victory be marriage/sex? It's certainly not something to run from. But I do smile when I hear guys thinking that 'they' alone seduced her.
If a guy is super philosophical and super androgenous, he is invisible to women.
If a guy is sexual in all ways of how he is toward life, he is VERY VISIBLE to women.
It is easier to label women as an enemy/enigma/souless being than to actually realize that they are people too. (I thought that way for a while and it made me more relaxed with women because I thought "Oh, well, who cares...she is just trying to conquer me!" Now, I think that women are kinda like passive-agressive men with no drive...if that makes any sense.) In my opinion, Weininger was right about women being all sexual (of course they are, just listen to what they TALK about ALL THE TIME) but I think that he concluded that they were "souless" because he was AFRAID of women. He was afraid of his own sexuality.
Bingo! But it's worse than that.
Women are plant like. They reflect what is already there. If there is no confidence, no sense of self, nothing, then they will see some drone instead of a man. Often, what a man says about a woman reflects his own nature.
You're absolutely right Weineger was scared of their sexuality. What Weineger did was not show that women are amoral and souless. Rather, he showed HIMSELF to be amoral and souless as illustrated by the brutality of his work. He wants a desexualized world in the end. Weineger might end up being a curious ally of the radical feminists.
I consider women to be a type of touchstone. In my view, I see them uplifting, guiding, and calling men to greatness. They are the muse that inspires to turn this clay of flesh into Man.
So when I hear a mysgnomist, he himself has a weakness in him he won't admit.
but this does not mean that we should avoid them because of this.
No, of course not.
At some places, I'm on guard beause many women will want you not because they should but because all the other women do. In THAT instance, the women are definately playing a catty game and trying to make her friends jealous. It's something I have to look out for. I don't really respond well anymore to girls flirting with me Now I go for whatever woman I want. I'm not hesitant or looking for 'signals'. I'm glad I got that rot out of my system long ago.
And like what Deepblue says: the floodgates open...
OK, going to retire myself from this thread. It's long enoough already =)
Hahahaha.
In Womaniverse, there is one criminal: It is a man who is invited to a woman's bed and he does not go.
Pook!? This seems just a little creepy! Calling sexuality a "battle" between the masculine and the feminine? Acting like women are trying to "conquer" you? Women know not what they do, she was just doing what is in her nature to do to get what she wanted (sex/union).
I didn't call it a battle. Men may try to conquer the world, but women conquer men.
In my first post, I commented that I finally believed that women ARE sexuality. I alluded to "Sex and Character" by Weininger. You then advised me to burn/delete the book because it will lead me down a trail of depression. I hope you followed your own advice, because I am just not understanding this whole "conquer" thing.
Yes, I've burned my Weineger book. Don't view 'conquer' in the traditional sense. If women are sexuality, wouldn't in their eyes the victory be marriage/sex? It's certainly not something to run from. But I do smile when I hear guys thinking that 'they' alone seduced her.
If a guy is super philosophical and super androgenous, he is invisible to women.
If a guy is sexual in all ways of how he is toward life, he is VERY VISIBLE to women.
It is easier to label women as an enemy/enigma/souless being than to actually realize that they are people too. (I thought that way for a while and it made me more relaxed with women because I thought "Oh, well, who cares...she is just trying to conquer me!" Now, I think that women are kinda like passive-agressive men with no drive...if that makes any sense.) In my opinion, Weininger was right about women being all sexual (of course they are, just listen to what they TALK about ALL THE TIME) but I think that he concluded that they were "souless" because he was AFRAID of women. He was afraid of his own sexuality.
Bingo! But it's worse than that.
Women are plant like. They reflect what is already there. If there is no confidence, no sense of self, nothing, then they will see some drone instead of a man. Often, what a man says about a woman reflects his own nature.
You're absolutely right Weineger was scared of their sexuality. What Weineger did was not show that women are amoral and souless. Rather, he showed HIMSELF to be amoral and souless as illustrated by the brutality of his work. He wants a desexualized world in the end. Weineger might end up being a curious ally of the radical feminists.
I consider women to be a type of touchstone. In my view, I see them uplifting, guiding, and calling men to greatness. They are the muse that inspires to turn this clay of flesh into Man.
So when I hear a mysgnomist, he himself has a weakness in him he won't admit.
but this does not mean that we should avoid them because of this.
No, of course not.
At some places, I'm on guard beause many women will want you not because they should but because all the other women do. In THAT instance, the women are definately playing a catty game and trying to make her friends jealous. It's something I have to look out for. I don't really respond well anymore to girls flirting with me Now I go for whatever woman I want. I'm not hesitant or looking for 'signals'. I'm glad I got that rot out of my system long ago.
And like what Deepblue says: the floodgates open...
OK, going to retire myself from this thread. It's long enoough already =)
