A potential flaw I see in Pook's reasoning [merged]

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by SexPDX
Well, if you had actually READ any of my "slimy" posts and "nerdy" FR's and actually looked for the CONTENT rather than fodder to support your strong personal dislike for me you may have picked up that my goals and my way of looking at things have changed quite a bit.

Actually, I did notice that, and held out a little hope for you... initially. After a period of time with you mindless blank-staring Ross Jeffries worshipper, I noticed that you were snapping out of the Speed Seduction craze which has been, in my opinion, the single worst thing to ever come to this site. You also shared my sentiments regarding Doc Love, who in my opinion is almost as pathetic as Ross Jeffries.

But that promise that you were showing started to evaporate, and in my opinion you took two steps forward and then one step back. Yes, I will concede that you are now less pathetic than when everything was all about patterns and SS and Ross Jeffries. But still, the idea of needing all these special "techniques" and "methods" doesn't say to me, "HEY, look, here's a guy who's good with women." It says to me, "HEY, this guy can't handle women without special help."

I am into generating strong and lasting rapport quickly and to cultivate a feeling of mutual willingness to be involved in each other's lives.

Do you even hear yourself? Is there any doubt whatsoever why I wouldn't want to "hang" with you? Do you now understand why I say that you turn something that should be a semi-normal interaction with a woman into something that sounds like the ÜberDork Manifesto?

And by the way, if you're talking about any kind of real rapport, as opposed to the pseudo-rapport which is the aim of speed seduction, you can have it one of two ways: strong and lasting raport gradually over time, or weak and fleeting rapport quickly. Or, going back to the whole half-elf thing, you can use your Skull Cap of Charm which gives you a +6 CHARISMA and instant strong rapport with women.

And by the way I have accomplished this with that girl you called a "slut" because I was able to seduce her for a lay on a compressed time frame.

Let's talk about that for a minute. "Slut" means (in the way I used it), "a woman considered sexually promiscuous", according to The American Heritage Dictionary. Is it sexually promiscuous to have sex with someone you just met and barely know? In my opinion, yes. Do you have to have a "really tight game" to make that happen? No.

You also criticized my "score" or "close rate" saying that it was no better than someone with "average game" NEVERMIND the fact that I was in a workshop where I was learning JUGGLER METHOD and managed to pick it up that quickly (which nobody else to my knowledge has done yet).

Actually, what had been saying is that when someone approaches literally hundreds of women, he's going to get a few girls who say "yes"... to giving their number, to going on a date, to having sex. If you were to go into a mall, for example, and ask out every single female, you are bound to get a few "yes" responses. That's the LAW OF AVERAGES. Unless you look like Quasimodo or something, you're going to get some "yes" answers. I was remarking that I hadn't seen any evidence that you finding a girl who was willing to have sex with you when she first met you spoke to any other phenomenon other than the law of averages at work, and certainly no evidence to suggest that any particular "technique" or "method" was working any better than an average guy with average looks and average game asking out every girl he came across.

You are right, Gio, I don't talk about LTR's here because I don't consider that MY topic. You, however, have no reservations about expressing this negative opinion of not only my game but my WOMEN despite the fact that you would not know GOOD GAME from AVERAGE GAME from NO GAME. You have given NOBODY a basis for trusting your judgement of what GOOD GAME is.

If that's truly the case, and your vast knowledge, skill, and expertise is so high above mine, why care what I think? I've never claimed to be an expert. People have asked me for advice (both on this board and off) because the advice I give is straight-forward, it makes sense, and IT WORKS. It doesn't rely on tricking a girl, or "hypnotizing" her, or putting her in a "trance state", or using any kind of named technique or method. But long before there was a SexPDX, and long before there was a Juggler, or a Mystery, or a Gunwitch, or a Ross Jeffries, men dated women, men had sex with women, and men fell in love with women. They did it without Juggler Method, they did it without Gunwitch Method, they did it without trying to mind-f*ck women.

Also, the things that I have been encouraging lately in my SLIMY, NERDY and (at times) MORALLY QUESTIONABLE contributions is being genuine, honest, expressive, non-threatiing and willing to be vulnerable. How does ANY of this conflict with goals of being in a LTR?

I wouldn't know. I've been more or less ignoring your posts for some time, so as to allow you to have sex with random housewives and women you meet at their kids' T-Ball games without interference from me. But if you're being so "genuine", "honest", and "willing to be vulnerable", that begs the question of why you would feel you needed a "method" or "technique" in the first place.

I don't follow a large number of threads these days but I don't see that to be the case. I think this forum is more welcoming of LTR discussion than any other forum I know of on the topic.

Like I said, if I ever saw a reasonable amount of desire of people to read about LTRs, I've got more than my share of things to say on the subject.

 

[DeepBlue]

Re: The Social Value of The Board

Originally posted by SexPDX
Following DeepBlue's reply to this thread we exchanged e-mail in which he pointed out to me that socializing on the internet CAN be beneficial for people with underdeveloped social skills. In retrospect I do agree with this, however anyone who has been reading the material for any length of time and is STILL at that phase has not been doing the exercises. It has been a consistent message of mine to the community for a long time that the misconception that your skills are going to grow by huge leaps and bounds while you don't work on your game NEEDS to be dispelled.

In case anyone else finds my comments useful or interesting, I'll quote the portion I wrote pertaining to Sosuave.

I said:

I don't think that using a discussion forum (or off-topic
discussions in the Anything Else forum) as a type of social activity
is necessarily a bad thing.

If somebody is bedridden in a hospital then it would be a good
thing for him to be socializing online (and all the more
balanced if he discusses a variety of topics, not just
women and seduction).

The problem is that what some of the guys on Sosuave need most
is more experience engaging in live, face-to-face social interaction.

And unfortunately, the lack of comfort they feel about meeting
people face-to-face makes them especially prone to falling into a
trap of using online discussions as a *substitute* for meeting
and interacting with new people in the flesh.

They become like those guys who go to a party or a bar to meet
new people then spend the whole evening talking to guys they
already know, because that feels easier and more comfortable
than trying to make conversation with anyone new.

The saving grace about guys using the "Anything Else" forum
as a substitute for live social interaction, is that their
inclination to hang out online is at least obvious.

The trickier self-deception is the one that ensnares those
who are so focused on the topic of meeting women that they
don't even realize they're using those discussions as a
substitute for live interaction with others.

After all, their discussions always seem to convey an undeniable
interest in meeting women. Their interest is genuine but so is the
social anxiety they avoid by staying endlessly online.

DeepBlue

 

[icepick]

Or, going back to the whole half-elf thing, you can use your Skull Cap of Charm which gives you a +6 CHARISMA and instant strong rapport with women.

ROTFLMAO!

This stuff is funny, I might start using this forum for my email jokes!

 

[Unbridled_1]

Rumor has it that Page will compile all "flame" posts, including the ones in this thread, to make "The Book of Flames" that will be available for all members of Sosuave. Page expects to release it around the same time as he prepares the 2nd edition of his own book, titled "The Book of Shuma Guma: Continuing Adventures of the Internet Lame A$$."

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
And by the way, if you're talking about any kind of real rapport, as opposed to the pseudo-rapport which is the aim of speed seduction, you can have it one of two ways: strong and lasting raport gradually over time, or weak and fleeting rapport quickly.

Maybe with YOUR current skill set real rapport is something that takes a long time. Maybe you have some problem with appearing threatening. Maybe it takes you a while of knowing someone before you get over your shyness or anxiety. Maybe you are a long-threaded conversationalist or you don't put people at ease about expressing themselves. It's hard to say without knowing you IRL. I think your problem is that you don't know what GOOD is. Since you rejected my offer to hang out with you along with some other guys who I know have game (which would not have costed you anything) you should go over to Ann Arbor and take a Juggler workshop. You are close enough. Seriously, it would change your life for the better.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
"Slut" means (in the way I used it), "a woman considered sexually promiscuous", according to The American Heritage Dictionary. Is it sexually promiscuous to have sex with someone you just met and barely know? In my opinion, yes. Do you have to have a "really tight game" to make that happen? No.

Does it take "really tight game" in all cases? Probably not. And I really do think you firmly believe that woman was a slut but this goes back to my concern that you don't know what "good game" is. I do not believe you are a good judge of what does or does not require game or skill. Of course I was the only one who was actually THERE besides Juggler but I believe that most guys standing in my place could not have done what I did.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
I was remarking that I hadn't seen any evidence that you finding a girl who was willing to have sex with you when she first met you spoke to any other phenomenon other than the law of averages at work

Again, I was learning a new way of doing things. What I learned from Juggler was how to incorporate HIS approach into what I do but while I was paying for his instruction I was going to learn HIS METHOD as best as I could because that's what I was there to learn. And I learned it well enough to congruently pull off a seduction using PURELY that method RIGHT after I learned it. Again, WHO has picked it up that fast before me? I am not trying to brag here, I am just trying to bring this down to objective reality. Your judging my game based on how many women I interacted with versus how many women I laid during a friggin WORKSHOP is laughable.

And you won't be convinced of the effectiveness of ANY method until you go DO IT.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova

If that's truly the case, and your vast knowledge, skill, and expertise is so high above mine, why care what I think? I've never claimed to be an expert.

As Mr. Mystery pointed out, we enjoy debating. Even though our posts are directed at each other we are actually making points for the entire group. As for how this all got started, I expressed myself in a negative light on something off-topic as I occasionally do and you chimed in, which is the ONLY time I ever seem to hear from you anymore.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
and long before there was a Juggler

Before there was a Juggler there were men who seduced women by being authentic, targeting wide ranges of expression as a way of creating strong and lasting rapport quickly.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
or a Mystery

Before there was a Mystery there were men who seduced women by gaining acceptance in their peer groups while depriving them of the attention they were used to and cultivating feelings of pressure in her to win his affection based on his standing in her peer group.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
or a Gunwitch

Before there was a Gunwitch there were men who seduced women by isolating them and projecting sexual states.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
or a Ross Jeffries

Before there was a Ross Jeffries there were men who seduced women by using language to capture and lead their imagination.

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
men dated women, men had sex with women, and men fell in love with women. They did it without Juggler Method, they did it without Gunwitch Method

This is a pretty bold claim! Do you actually believe that no men got laid by projectiing sexual states? That's a primative method and has been common for a long time.

-PDX

 

[Don-Wan Kenobi]

The Problem with "Just be Yourself" Revisited

DWK: There are members who think that... rather than hone your pick-up skills... you should just make the most of life and take what comes... they have trouble seeing attraction as anything other than a natural, spontaneous process that does not deserve to be dissected and compartmentalized.

Gio: But still, the idea of needing all these special "techniques" and "methods" doesn't say to me, "HEY, look, here's a guy who's good with women."... some people seem to want to needlessly complicate the relatively simple process of interacting with a woman."

Gio: I am talking about international crises, controversial issues, and thought provoking questions as I somehow bluff my way through my everyday interactions with my girlfriend without using any "techniques", "patterns" or "methods."

I aspire to reach this level, where being attractive and establishing comfortable relationships with women is easy and natural. Eventually, I want to feel as though techniques, patterns, and methods do not exist.

Matrix fans: at the end of the movie, Neo sort of lets go and comes to the realization that he is much greater than the sum of his techniques and training. He pulls himself together and without meditation, disposes of the badguys in one fatal swoop. His insecurity and overthinking had become obstacles. Fortunately, he reached such a level where he could function (dodging bullets and karate choping men in dark glasses) almost on autopilot.

I want to reach autopilot and I believe that is posslbe. I also believe that in order to get there you need two things: confidence and know-how. You cannot have one without the other and as know-how improves so does confidence.

To illustrate my point, consider when I first got here: I had nothing but sob stories to report. Zero skill and zero confidence. I learned Speed Seduction and read some Doc Love. I thought it seemed like a bunch of bs and I tried it, and it worked.

So, my confidence improved. I kept practicing skills I learned here (and yes, some will say "practicing skills" in real life sounds almost mechanical and down-right creepy!.. let them) But, they worked. And my confidence again improved.

So, my confidence was at an all-time high and I gave up on this site and similar materials. I thought I had the mack. So, I hooked up with this one girl for a little while and then devoted a lot of time to straightening things out academically. Then I did some hiking and picked up a few hobbies, more or less neglecting women all the while... which I'll use to segue into my experiences of two months back.

Two months back, I learned the meaning of "being rusty." My confidence did not pay off (and in fact sunk) because I had forgotten the skill. I started approaching girls and got brushed off and flaked out so often, it's embarrassing. I thought I was better than that!


So what's next? And I KNOW there are a lot of others like me. What's NEXT for us???

Do we just keep on improving our athletic performance, our GPA, and our relationship with Grandma? Do we do improve at all of these aspects of life outside of women and expect the part of life that has to do with women to follow suit? Or do we do something different?

We could Just be Men!!!. Oh, I'm sure you've heard that one. Aren't we all men? Well, in that case let's embrace our masculinity and our sexuality!!! Fine, but what the hell does that mean? I'm a man and I'm attracted to the cute women in my math class, so I find ways of starting conversation with them. I'm not gonna blatantly come-onto them in class but I'm not going to hide or deny the fact I am interested in sex with cute women. Am I embracing correctly?

If I was "Neo" I'd just switch into Matrix mode and work the classroom like a pimp. But I'm not there yet. I can't just pretend I've gotten over all of my stubborn AFC habbits and pretend that I can "be myself" and manage to get laid. I need skill.

Gio, I've had success in the past but I need "special help" to get me to where I want to be. Hell, I've been in a slump. So to whom do I listen? To someone who says "Attracting ladies is easy. It's childsplay! We should focus more on the war and things that are more important. Just be yourself and don't do anything stupid. If you think in terms of "techniques" then you're a Dork Cheiftain with zero hit-dice, a four in charisma, and a two in intelligence!" Or do I listen to someone who has concrete advice: offering plenty of examples as to what works and what doesn't and organizing tasks and field tests for me to develop game and confidence to the point where I will someday BE confident enough with women to forget that techniques and rules even exist???

What advice could be more useful than that which describes methods, techniques, and fieldwork?


DWK

 

[SexPDX]

DWK, you have email BTW.

 

[PowerEgo]

dude
i think the only thing you do in this forum really do is regurgitate a load of shyt, benefit from your posts?
ahah, this is the most pathetic joke i heard in a long time

, your fild repors are just ridiculous vehicle to you attempt to 'hypnotize' the readers so they admire your effortts and you can sleep with your ego inflated at night,

you select your jokes and things that you tought were funny and put on it, then you use a bunch of self-idolatrizing comments such as 'i liked my performance' 'my observations tells me that she was attracted to me' in a attempt to create feelings of admiration in the readers, then you mix with some humbleness to not came off too good and imtimidating 'i dont consider myself as an expert pua'

save your time, your methods for picking readers admiration are completly sinthetic and temporary and became irritating after a while, you just not going to have your own horde of ass kissers as the other local leader has nor gonna get whatever you want from posting like a psyco on a webforum

and btw i do think pok has flaws in his philosophies, but this is another post

 

[Bungo Pony]

Re: The Problem with "Just be Yourself" Revisited

Originally posted by Don-Wan Kenobi
If you think in terms of "techniques" then you're a Dork Cheiftain with zero hit-dice, a four in charisma, and a two in intelligence!" Or do I listen to someone who has concrete advice: offering plenty of examples as to what works and what doesn't and organizing tasks and field tests for me to develop game and confidence to the point where I will someday BE confident enough with women to forget that techniques and rules even exist???

Excellent statement!

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Re: The Problem with "Just be Yourself" Revisited

Originally posted by Don-Wan Kenobi
To illustrate my point, consider when I first got here: I had nothing but sob stories to report. Zero skill and zero confidence. I learned Speed Seduction and read some Doc Love. I thought it seemed like a bunch of bs and I tried it, and it worked.

If you tried it, and it worked, and you're happy with the results, then more power to you. Personally, I wouldn't wipe my ass with a Doc Love column, and I think Speed Seduction is a fraud at worst and pathetic at best. So what? Those are my opinions, you don't have to agree with me.

So, my confidence improved. I kept practicing skills I learned here (and yes, some will say "practicing skills" in real life sounds almost mechanical and down-right creepy!.. let them) But, they worked. And my confidence again improved.

Again, good for you. And as for the phrase "practicing skills" sounding mechanical or creepy, it depends on what you mean by that. If you mean practicing being funny, or speaking in a crowd, or anything like that, I don't think that's mechanical or creepy. These are skills that can be used in many situations outside of just picking up girls. If you're talking about practicing the Incredible Connection pattern to get women, then yeah, I'd say that's creepy. And, to your credit, you'll let me.

So, my confidence was at an all-time high and I gave up on this site and similar materials. I thought I had the mack. So, I hooked up with this one girl for a little while and then devoted a lot of time to straightening things out academically. Then I did some hiking and picked up a few hobbies, more or less neglecting women all the while... which I'll use to segue into my experiences of two months back.

Two months back, I learned the meaning of "being rusty." My confidence did not pay off (and in fact sunk) because I had forgotten the skill. I started approaching girls and got brushed off and flaked out so often, it's embarrassing. I thought I was better than that!

In this case, the problem is not so much that your confidence dropped because you forgot a skill, the problem is that you depend(ed) on women for your confidence. That's not self-confidence, that's confidence that relies on outside validation. True confidence means you can be rejected without losing your confidence.

Now, you link your confidence with your "skill" regarding picking up women. So, if you "lose" that skill by being unable to pick up women, you lose your confidence as well. Now, some guys are confident with women who don't know about this site, don't know anything about Speed Seduction, and they are plenty confident with women. It's not always because they have killer looks, or rippling muscles. It's because there's more to them than being able to pick up chicks.

They go camping and hiking, they have good friends, they're funny and fun to be around, they have a good job, a good plan for the future, have some interesting hobbies and knowledge about what's going on around them. And women can sense that about a guy, and it makes him more attractive to her.

So what's next? And I KNOW there are a lot of others like me. What's NEXT for us???

Do we just keep on improving our athletic performance, our GPA, and our relationship with Grandma? Do we do improve at all of these aspects of life outside of women and expect the part of life that has to do with women to follow suit? Or do we do something different?

Well, yes and no. We'll get into that in a minute.

We could Just be Men!!!. Oh, I'm sure you've heard that one. Aren't we all men? Well, in that case let's embrace our masculinity and our sexuality!!! Fine, but what the hell does that mean? I'm a man and I'm attracted to the cute women in my math class, so I find ways of starting conversation with them. I'm not gonna blatantly come-onto them in class but I'm not going to hide or deny the fact I am interested in sex with cute women. Am I embracing correctly?

You'd have to ask Pook about that.

If I was "Neo" I'd just switch into Matrix mode and work the classroom like a pimp. But I'm not there yet. I can't just pretend I've gotten over all of my stubborn AFC habbits and pretend that I can "be myself" and manage to get laid. I need skill.

Gio, I've had success in the past but I need "special help" to get me to where I want to be. Hell, I've been in a slump. So to whom do I listen? To someone who says "Attracting ladies is easy. It's childsplay! We should focus more on the war and things that are more important. Just be yourself and don't do anything stupid. If you think in terms of "techniques" then you're a Dork Cheiftain with zero hit-dice, a four in charisma, and a two in intelligence!" Or do I listen to someone who has concrete advice: offering plenty of examples as to what works and what doesn't and organizing tasks and field tests for me to develop game and confidence to the point where I will someday BE confident enough with women to forget that techniques and rules even exist???

First off, I never said "just be yourself", at least not in the way that it's meant here. Nor did I say that getting women is "childs play". However, I don't think it's as horrifyingly complex as people here want to make it out to be. And in my opinion, there's a difference between "Just being yourself" as you are now, which obviously isn't working, and making yourself into a better person to be.

Now, you can listen to whomever you want to. You can listen to PDX, when he says that if you read his "field reports" and say this certain thing at this certain time with this certain tonality after you've made sure that you've had this certain amount of rapport, unless you have a different amount of rapport, in which case say this other certain thing at a different time with the same tonality on every other day starting with Monday but skipping Saturday, and then by taking the square root of negative eight-point-five-two and then dividing that number by zero, we can deduce whether or not a woman will sleep with us, as long as we have spoken with her for a period not longer than X+Y*Z², but not shorter than X²-Y²/Z, unless Y=0. You can listen to me when I say it doesn't have to be a complicated process, but you do have to put a little more actual work into it. Or you can listen to Ross Jeffries or Doc Love or Louis & Copeland or any of the other people out there who are desperately shouting for you to follow their advice, because they won't lead you wrong.

In the end, it's up to you. If you can follow PDX's "field reports" and that helps you, great, wonderful. If you follow someone else's advice and it helps you, great, wonderful. If you follow my advice and it helps you... well, you get the idea. As has been made perfectly clear, this site is pure entertainment as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not going to lose sleep over anybody here not being able to get laid or have a relationship, just like I don't lose sleep whenever someone wants to hook up with a less-than-stellar example of the female species.

I've gotten what I've wanted, relationship-wise, so I'm not here for advice. I'm here for entertainment. And if someone wants advice from me, I'll give it as I always have. If they don't, again, I'll find a way to cope with the devestating heartbreak.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by SexPDX
Since you rejected my offer to hang out with you along with some other guys who I know have game (which would not have costed you anything) you should go over to Ann Arbor and take a Juggler workshop. You are close enough. Seriously, it would change your life for the better.

Do you have a problem with understanding words? I have NO USE for a Juggler workshop, or a Gunwitch workshop, or a speed seduction workshop, or a SexPDX workshop. I'm not the one who is unhappy with my "skill set" or my "game". Such a thing does not interest me in the least. When will you get it through your 5-inch-thick concrete skull that I choose NOT to devote my entire existance to the single-minded pursuit of women?

Does it take "really tight game" in all cases? Probably not. And I really do think you firmly believe that woman was a slut but this goes back to my concern that you don't know what "good game" is. I do not believe you are a good judge of what does or does not require game or skill. Of course I was the only one who was actually THERE besides Juggler but I believe that most guys standing in my place could not have done what I did.

What, have sex with a slut? Most guys COULD, but many WOULDN'T. Is that what you're talking about?

And you won't be convinced of the effectiveness of ANY method until you go DO IT.

I love statements like this. "Don't knock it till you've tried it." Here's a method for you, Nick. It's called the Mudslide Method. Basically, it involves you getting gang-raped in the ass by three guys who are each over 300 pounds. After that, go out and approach women. Guaranteed, the first woman you approach will have sex with you. Of course, because I hate "methods", I've never tried it, but I've heard that it works. I think you should really try this. Remember, you need to DO IT before you can comment on this methods effectiveness.

As Mr. Mystery pointed out, we enjoy debating. Even though our posts are directed at each other we are actually making points for the entire group. As for how this all got started, I expressed myself in a negative light on something off-topic as I occasionally do and you chimed in, which is the ONLY time I ever seem to hear from you anymore.

Awww. Is that the problem? I never write you anymore?

This is a pretty bold claim! Do you actually believe that no men got laid by projectiing sexual states? That's a primative method and has been common for a long time.

So, you're saying one of two things. That the methods of Mystery, Gunwitch, and Juggler are either just natural stuff that guys have always been doing and they're just tagging their names onto a natural phenomenon, or that guys have managed to do quite well for themselves for many millenia before these methods came along. Which one is it?

 

[DeepBlue]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova

I love statements like this. "Don't knock it till you've tried it." Here's a method for you, Nick. It's called the Mudslide Method. Basically, it involves you getting gang-raped in the ass by three guys who are each over 300 pounds.

Finally I understand Giovanni's secret fear in getting together with SexPDX, Juggler, and David Shade. No worries man, I doubt any of those guys weighs more than 250 tops.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by DeepBlue
Finally I understand Giovanni's secret fear in getting together with SexPDX, Juggler, and David Shade. No worries man, I doubt any of those guys weighs more than 250 tops.

Ha ha. No, actually I'm simply stating that there are some things that you're just opposed to, and you don't need to "try" them to see if they will work.

 

[Don-Wan Kenobi]

Giovanni Casanova: Now, some guys are confident with women who don't know about this site, don't know anything about Speed Seduction, and they are plenty confident with women. It's not always because they have killer looks, or rippling muscles. It's because there's more to them than being able to pick up chicks.

These men are successful with women because there is more to them than being able to pick up chicks? In other words, they have a lot going for them. There is no doubt among any of us that this is part of the reason they are successful. However, I know plenty of guys who are well rounded and fun to be around despite the fact they are terrible at attracting women. I have also met some complete losers who manage to snag a woman whenever they feel like it. I see that the "losers" are more skilled at presenting themselves to women than are the well rounded, fun to be around guys.

I also notice a difference in confidence around women, which I'll note is not a reflection of confidence in general.

In this case, the problem is not so much that your confidence dropped because you forgot a skill, the problem is that you depend on women for your confidence. That's not self-confidence, that's confidence that relies on outside validation. True confidence means you can be rejected without losing your confidence.

I feel that rejection is always capable of lowering self-confidence regardless of the individual. However, some of us feel the burn of rejection more than others and that is something we work to overcome.

ME: I started approaching girls and got brushed off and flaked out so often, it's embarrassing.

This is true. This statement I made and the one preceding it indicate that to some extent my confidence in dealing with women is a reflection of my success in dealing with women. In effect, I am depending on women for my confidence (in dealing with women). Strangely, I am very confident in most other areas of my life. I've always felt that confidence with women was and is separate from and not representative of confidence as a whole. If I am rejected, yes I feel slightly less confident in my ability to attract women than I did prior to the rejection. However, I am still very confident with regards to my ability to oh, sing in the shower or to ace the exam.


So, in no way do I feel my confidence as a whole brought down by rejection... only the part that has to do with women. Neither do I feel my entire self-confidence is brought to the table when I meet a woman. I am the distant cousin of Mr. Nice Guy, who says "Why don't women like me? I have a lot going for me and none of it seems to matter!" I'm saying, "Gee, I'm on top of nearly every facet of my life besides women, where success is so-so. If I can be successful in other areas of my life, why not be more successful in this area?"

I think that and realize that my success in other areas has to do with taking notes, doing, studying, and a committment to improve.

I realize you're not telling me to keep reminding myself I'm special and that rejection means nothing when I go to approach a girl. That alone is tantamount to "Just be yourself." I also realize that you advise against making dating and meeting women more complicated than it has to be. Women are too much fun to be with to spend your time with them trying to remember whether or not the weasel phrase gets put in between the transe word and the accelerator or the accelerator gets put between the transe word and the weasel phrase.

I guess when this thread began, people saw Pook and his most recent contributions as not being field (skills) oriented enough to suit their tastes. As this thread progressed, members began firing back with accusations that other contributors are trying to make rocket science out of interpersonal attraction and that all that it really takes to be successful are some basic rules and common sense. I guess there's a happy medium somewhere between these two perspectives and I'm looking for it.

DWK

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Could someone please step up to the plate and defend this steaming pile of horse-funk?

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25992

Please make sure you explain to me how any rational person could not characterize that as the most pathetic thing ever.

 

[blong1068]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
Could someone please step up to the plate and defend this steaming pile of horse-funk?

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25992

Please make sure you explain to me how any rational person could not characterize that as the most pathetic thing ever.

Unbelievable.

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
Could someone please step up to the plate and defend this steaming pile of horse-funk?

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25992

Please make sure you explain to me how any rational person could not characterize that as the most pathetic thing ever.

Haha! I haven't heard of this yet, what exactly is it? From the sounds of DellSkyCat's post, some two-bit hustler is setting his soul up for some hardcore suffering by trying to push the arcane as a seduction product. If that is the case, then anyone who would even consider that doesn't know sh1t about what they are messing with and the product is probably crap anyhow.

-PDX

 

[Don-Wan Kenobi]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
Could someone please step up to the plate and defend this steaming pile of horse-funk?

http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25992

Please make sure you explain to me how any rational person could not characterize that as the most pathetic thing ever.

I think you make your point. There are a lot of things I would and will do to get better with women but some of the information I've encountered on the internet sounds utterly useless, lunacy at best. This is a perfect illustration of lunacy.

"Psychic Seduction," sounds like some tapeset that you can order off the internet for a couple hundred dollars, promising instant results. Why bother to learn social skills when you can read people's minds? The sad reality is (despite what's been posted) if it were advertised on this site, dozens of members would be using it already.

I know that some of you group speed seduction and most everything at ASF in the same category as you'd group "Psychic Seduction." A lot of members on this board have used or have looked into either of the aforementioned resources. I personally am investing a lot of time over at ASF.

The problem isn't that people here lack common sense and investigate "Psychic Seduction" out of stupidity (we all agree this one's bogus, right?) Understand that members are looking for something that works, something to believe in. If a bunch of people swear by one method or methods, then the members will try it. They will embrace the ideas and (some) will test them in the field. Any progress or positive result will immediately be traced to the method; it must work! Is it desperation? Yes. Is this a substitute for skill and confidence? Yes. Is this always a bad idea no matter the product? Tough call. I would hope not. Lastly, are their products and methods that really work (like really as in we could prove with clinically significant empirical evidence that they work)??? I dunno. But people looking to improve have to start somewhere and they have to start with something. If they don't have confidence with women and/or they don't have skill, they'll have to learn them and they won't learn them if they keep repeating the same behaviors that make them AFC in the first place.

Ah, but come on DWK... Are you saying it's better for members to go out thinking they're using psychic powers to seduce women than it is for them to just get a life and learn some woman-skills through trial and error?

My fear is that the former will develop into a mega nerd who will never be close enough to reality (nevertheless a woman) to give it a touch. The latter (if he's an adult and hasn't learned already) may just never learn, particularly if he keeps making the same mistakes with women over and over again.

We've all met people who are so out of the loop, they're destined for failure. We've also met lonely fifty year-olds who were once lonely twenty-something year-olds.

There's got to be a happy medium... a system that is down to earth. One that is entrenched in reality and not mythology, what works for one guy, or some passed-over, atiquated cognitive science from the eighties.

DWK

 

[Pook]

Stupid post replied before I wanted it to.

Bad post!

 

[PowerEgo]

blitz, pdx and all the other juglers marketeers out there, go ahead and try to explain to pok how his method is amazing and put the focus on you

we are waiting