A Modern Dating Tragedy: A Man's Perspective

00Kevin

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Women today are not giving us any cues that they want to be asked out, and without some indication or encouragement that he might be well received, a man is not going to risk the rejection—which men are far more sensitive to than women evidently realize."

The days of men asking women out are gone! Women don't even take the time to do little unspoken things, that interest a man. Something basic to our culture is being lost. No wonder so many women are so unhappy.


In fact, many men have come to think women don't even like men, because of the way women react to their initial overtures, yet, the women wonder why men aren't asking them out, they're either not saying yes, or they're not sending the signals

One of the rarest qualities to find in a young woman today—at least towards eligible men—was kindness. So many men are simply starving for kindness from a woman but so often find sarcasm and cynicism instead. One man commented to me on a climate nowadays of a prevailing hostility among women towards men. It is easy for a man to feel that some women are actually looking to find fault, ready to pounce on him at the slightest ill-chosen word or misspoken comment. In women this can manifest in self-righteousness, or a kind of assumed moral superiority over men—often unconscious on their part. Men complain that they often feel around women that they cannot win, or say or do anything right. Such women drive men away.

Perhaps women today may have good reasons for these attitudes, but they are very wounding to a man, especially to an interested man who is serious, sincere, and sensitive. Such a man will not ask such a woman out.

He simply doesn't want to be around it. I understand that in today's world it can be imprudent and even downright dangerous for a woman to be too kind too soon to a man she doesn't know well, and even then there still is chance of betrayal. The Sexual Revolution has ruined it for everyone as far as trust goes, but sarcasm and cynicism towards men have become epidemic in our society, and it has become so ingrained, so second-nature, that most women are not even conscious that they're being that way—but the men are. And they go the other way.

In terms of the risk factor, traditionally it has always been up to the woman to control how far things went and how fast, and, if she liked him, still keep the man captivated. In the confusion of the day that that was perhaps one more thing that was lost, or at least severely damaged. What has been lost,is an ancient womanly wisdom that women in previous ages had always intuitively known, on how to "handle" (not manipulate) a man—that is, how to anticipate him and keep him happy.

A modern woman might interpret this sort of thing as "game playing" but it is not. It is a deadly serious business that holds civilization together. Quails and pelicans have their mating rituals and dances and so do humans.

We all know that women have a need, especially in marriage, to be reassured that they are loved and cherished—they want to hear it. And a man who thinks that his love ought to be self-evident is thought to be rather obtuse in these matters. He should tell her he loves her often, as well as show it on every possible occasion. Yet, a man has a corresponding need for reassurance from the woman he loves, which society tends to ridicule, especially since the rise of feminism. His need is to be admired.

It is the way men are made.

A man needs to feel that he is a hero in the eyes of the woman he loves. It may sound corny, and most men may not admit it, but real life is corny, and it is true. It is from such admiration that a man derives his strength. The quest for this admiration, either in the eyes of a specific woman, or hoping to catch the eye of a woman, supplies him with inspiration and motivation to serve and accomplish in his world.

There are women, thanks perhaps to the effects of feminism, who act as though there were some sort of anathema against showing a man admiration, as if to say, "I'm not going to feed his stupid ego!" But, perhaps if his ego were fed once in a while he wouldn't be in the state of starvation that so diminishes a man as to prod him into the very ways that women find so intolerable. The result is a seemingly endless cycle of resentment and mutual punishment.

Many women appear to have unwittingly made it a point of pride to take an unhealthy (if unconscious) pleasure in denying men what they most need by reacting to them with sarcasm, cynicism, laughs at the expense of men, and a general attitude derived from the world. Many of these cynical attitudes towards men become self-fulfilling prophecies so discouraging to a man that he may start to live down to the belittlement, just as he would live up to praise were it offered. Male ego only becomes a problem when it is undernourished. Properly fed, it spends less time rebelling and trying to feed itself in unattractive and self-defeating ways. Properly fed, it causes a man to strive to be the best that he can be for the woman he loves and the society he serves. Some women may take offense at what I'm saying here, as though I were placing the whole onus of the problem on women.

I am not.

It is important not to confuse the generalities of politics and rhetoric with the tender particularities of where we most essentially live. The question at hand is why women aren't getting asked out more often. This is not an unimportant issue. It is important to remember that contemporary society is under a profound malaise, with everything good, pure, and holy coming under attack.
One of the chief things under attack is the family, the home. And if family is under attack then it stands to reason that everything that leads up to family—namely how men and women find each other—is also under attack.

I have noticed that most women do not have the foggiest idea how men feel, or what men feel, and most men feel too vulnerable to tell them. Some women are so embittered as to no longer care. They may be beyond my reach. In any case, the fact remains that I know men who have actually given up on women—who have, after so many rebuffs, come to the conclusion that women simply don't like men.

Men are far more vulnerable to women than women can even imagine. Men are sensitive to things in women that women are not even aware of. The slightest bit of sarcasm from a women in whom he's interested can cause him to call off the whole pursuit. A woman who thinks this weak on the man's part simply doesn't know how men are built and what men are feeling these days. We live in a culture that sinfully exploits women, but many women have retaliated by vengefully diminishing men with their tongues and attitudes. There is much healing needed on both sides.

While not seeking a slavish dependence, a man needs to be needed by the woman he loves, yet the constant message sent (ad nasuem) by the modern woman is "I'm strong and independent! I don't need a man!" Of course, this is a hollow and defensive cry and betrays her bitter disappointment in men—otherwise she wouldn't need to announce it so much—but men hear it at face value and retreat.

A man may admire a woman for her strong independent qualities, but let her start telling him of them often enough and what he hears is "Well, she doesn't need me then!" and his eye begins to wander in search of someone who does. A man may respect a women for her independence, but he will cherish and love her for appreciating and needing (and in so doing bringing out) his manliness.

If a woman were to ask my advice on how to get a man interested in her, I would tell her to pay attention to him. Listen to him. The world in which a man lives is very cold and competitive, and when a woman creates a safe place where a man may open himself up, it is usually irresistible to him. But this requires reverence.

Should she show the slightest hint of ridicule over what he says, or take him lightly he will turn to stone. Listen to what is important to him, his hopes and dreams. Most men when they talk like this are rather admirable and if she admires him she should not hide it. She need not make a show of it—which he would see through—it must be real. If it is authentic it is not "game playing", but honesty. If she were interested in him in the first place that implies some admiration, doesn't it? It would be game playing not to admire him.

The old saying that men are only interested in "one thing" namely sex, is cynical and false. Men who become that way do so because they have given up on love and the hope that a woman would really receive him if he did open up to her.

What does a man look for in a woman? In a word, a home. To a little child, a woman (usually its mother) is a place. This is not to say a thing. It is to say a home. And only a person can be a home. This is what a man looks for in the woman who would be his wife. This is not to say that it is her job to raise him—certainly not—but the shelter she provides for him emotionally, where he may be himself, generally makes him better, stronger, more of a man, and inspires him to provide for her and shelter her physically. Indeed, to the point of laying down his life.

If a woman gives a man what he really needs—genuine interest, understanding, and acceptance of him as he really is, he will ask her out, and keep coming back for more.
 

DonJuanMonk

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If a woman gives a man what he really needs—genuine interest, understanding, and acceptance of him as he really is, he will ask her out, and keep coming back for more.
:rock: :rock: :rock:

And for those who are trying to date a girl: If she's neither giving you interest, neither understands you, and unwilling to accept you cause of how he looks/financial status. Save yourself some grief and NEXT.
 

Bill

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Great article, great insights.

I looked for points to argue, but it appears you are right on pretty much everything. I highly recommend reading the whole thing.

The good part is, there are still kind women left in this world.

-Bill
 

joekerr31

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great post.

basically comes down to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

the objectification of women in mass media as sex objects seems to have given them the idea that all men want is a sex object.

when they start with that assumption, the natural reaction is "if he doesn't care about my feelings, then im not going to care about his. if he's goign to use me for sex, then, im going to use him for [fill in the blank]"

the problem today is that there are so many cynical jaded people out there, that ideals like love are seen as probable as winning the lotery.

the truth of the matter is that love is the ideal that is easy to reach. all it requires is mutual attraction between two caring and mature human beings.

maturity though in today's world (and probably throughout history) is rare.

relationships today seem to be more about mutual narcissism than symbiotic support.

J
 

Mr. Cardio

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joe you are right....since I improved my life and thinking into a man, instead of getting closer to women, I swear to god, it seems like a god damn competition. Instead of a home where I can go and relax adn chill with my girl, its like I just left the damn football field, now I gotta go home to my girl in overtime.
 

Mr. Cardio

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but you see, you cant go to your girl and tell her this shyt though, on nooooo...because it will be very sacarcastic to them, and they will be laughin so fvckin hard you'll feel like Robin Williams dressed as Ms. Doubtfire in shyt.....so eventually, like what I feel like doing now, is turning into a fvckin player and just fvckin women and manipulating them and taking their money and leaving, and trust me, there are ways I can do this shyt.....my purpose for comin here was to grow into a man and not to become a player with 45 women, I just really and honestly wanted one woman who was attractive and loved the fvck outta me, thats all the hell I really want, to be honest.....
 

tmpgstx

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The more shallow less confident and insecure girls will behave like that. They're usually the types that sleep around anyway and don't have any solid LTR potential. The ones that do are usually taken, sometimes in bad relationships though and sometimes not.

Alot of guys on this board are good guys looking for a good LTR, but don't have the social outlets through family, sports, work etc. that would allow them to meet a girl more confident and LTR material as opposed to the flakes that frequent the clubs. It's because they're forced to look in the clubs that they have to change thier ways in how to handle these types of girls which really isn't them in the first place. The girls at the clubs are often just having fun and sexing around so you have to play them like that. This is why players excel at clubs.
 

Mr. Cardio

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tmp, you are totally right. You know, its hard for me, because you know honestly, when I was an "AFC" I felt better about my self. Normally, I am a very fun, full of energy, and happy guy. I am naturally full of joy, and everybody that I come across I try to give them that same energy......problem is, I never got that back. So I found sites liek these that described some of my behavior as being AFC and acting kind of foolish, so now, I walk like that "dominant" male, as I describe it. I mean, its natural, its not a act, but its more of a forced way of behaving instead of a preferred way of behaving, its like.....sitting in church for two hours and you telling yourself to just stay away for just two more hours because it will be all over soon............but with this dating game thing, as days go by, it seems like it wont get any better. And the more of a man I become, the more women will see me as a competiton and not as a partner. I dont know, but I just dont want to approach women, even though I want to. Its like, women dont like men, seriously. And to even back up your claim with the clubs, most "players" do AFC shyt....like buying her stuff, buying her drinks, etc, trust me, I see it........

a real man walks in, whether it be the club or whereever, I see women start staring at me as I walk by, playing with there hair and looking at my dyck and everything, with this "I want you look on their face," should I approach? Maybe, but I dont, why? Because there is this thing in me that says, this is a perfect opportunity for her to make herself feel better, by purposely rejecting me, even though, even though, its clear to me and even Stevie Wonder that she is horny for me. Its not liek its not okay to fvck me, but for her, its better to reject me because I have so much value.......that this rejection can make her feel better about herself or increase her ego.....hell, I am just being honest. I can see through all this whole shyt. And its liek, when I was an AFC, I had shyt wrong with me, that was obvious, but she didnt see me as a competition or a way to increase her ego by rejecting me, its like, if I made her feel anything at all, or if I tried hard enough, she would fvck eventually.......honest story! Now that I am a don juan, its not like that.....its like by her really giving into what she feels, its like I WON.....by why does it have to be like that? And what the hell am I supposed to do? Turn back to an AFC and act all supplicating to her and put her on a pedstal...WTF. Overall, I know what women are really and honestly attracted to, but its seems to me that what they really and honestly are attracted to, they are also really scared of as well........thats why they reject to increase their ego.
 

tmpgstx

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I've noticed that too at the clubs - the really insecure ones if in that they find you attractive won't let you know it directly. They're used to being hit on by certain types and are comfortable with that. If they find a guy really attractive they're already intimidated before even talking to you. They'll look at you like you're from outer space or something ..lol, but if you go and talk to her she'll reject you because of conflicts within her about being around what she perceives as a decent guy that she feels could never care for her in that way because she's not worthy of it. She only feels worthy of a guy that doesn't intimidate her or treats her like crap. I'm talking about the bar club queens here though. This is a big difference between men and women. A man could care less about feeling worthy in a girls presence, he just wants to bang her if he's out for that. A woman though, she'll only have sex with a guy that she's feels is more on her level for the most part. If she's really drunk and finds the guy really attractive and doesn't think she'll see him again, that could and sometimes is a different take.

I've had girls give me the total bytch shield without me so much as even looking at them and then to only have the same one ask me for my number later when she was drunk. One girl told my friend that she was to chicken to call though she had the liquid courage to get my number.

When you go to the clubs you're going to get alot girls with insecurities that you can't even begin to explain.
 

Mr. Cardio

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well tmp, I will be online for a while, working on a sales presentation, you tell me this, okay?

what is a guy to do, who's horny, and knows that women are attracted to him, but knows that its a no-win situation....not just in clubs but everywhere, I mean....its just how I feel.

If I remain acting like a don juan and approach her, I am too MUCH FOR HER, so she will reject me to make herself feel better, etc.

If I start acting AFC and approach her, I am too LESS OF A MAN for her, so she will reject me to confirm that she can do better than that.

So.....haha, you see how frustrating this is? I thought being an AFC was frustrating, but as you can see, being a don juan is frustrating as well.....dude, its like serious cant win....its like, the only way to win is if she approaches, and most girls are too damn scared to do that....so now, evenutally, I start to lose confidence because hell, I start to think there is something wrong wit my azz! You see how fvcked up this is.........what in the hell does a guy do to defeat this, what?
 

tmpgstx

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Well i know for myself i always went after the wrong types. All my LTRs were what was supposed to be one-night stands in the beginning, but the these girls kept chasing me after i had sex with them.

Another key difference, once you have sex with the girl, you have control of the relationship, before sex the girl does.

Some girls like the attention from an attractive guy better than sex. They often won't give sex right away to a guy they really like because they want to see more of them. If they give it up quick, the guy then hold the trump card. The bar flakes have become immune to giving up sex right away because of no self-respect. They have no self-respect left (if any had much to begin with) and now the only attention they can get is to sleep with a guy.

I set out to improve myself (i was already successful) but made it point to be a man, and not a boy or what i would consider an AFC. The result? I'm getting the hottest most beautiful girls with confidence showing interest in me.

Just this weekend i was out and about and an HB 10 (i say 10 because she really is hot) - caught her looking at me so i looked back and i gave a bit of a smile and she smiled and then she motioned me to talk to her - got her number. She was confident though and had self-respect, someone you don't find at the clubs often.

The difference is the more confident ones make their interest known when they're sober. The less confident ones only do when they're really drunk.

It sounds like you're on the right track. For me, reading Pook's stuff was a big help. It was stuff i already knew i should be doing to kill that 'nice' guy in me, but wasn't making it effective. Reading his stuff brought it to the table and made me more aware. The relationships i had turned me into an AFC causing me to lose my self-respect where women are concerned. I now feel have gained some of it back and getting more. It's refreshing.

Smiling is a big thing. Don't try to hard, impress or over-compensate. Let it come naturally, but with confidence and i think you'll find things will start going your way more.
 

Mr. Cardio

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tmp, I swear to you I have confidence man......I swear to you. Its like seriously, they are rejecting me now, not for what I am doing, but just because of their own insecurities.....seriously! this in its own right, makes me not want to approach a girl.....
 

tmpgstx

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I also want to say at first after becoming less of an AFC, wasn't getting the feedback i wanted (or though i would get). I stuck with it though and then like over-night have been getting more and more interest lately.

I've been working out alot too, getting my body in the best shape of my life. A big plus.
 

tmpgstx

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Yeah, alot of them may be rejecting you because of their insecurities. There must be women with less insecurities checking you out, maybe at work?

It is much like a game with 4 quarters alot of the time. If you don't get started right, you're get routed. Sometimes you have to make adjustments at half-time.

How would you describe your physical appearance, preppy? Overweight? Nerdy?
 

Mr. Cardio

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I am 5'9, black, toned, bout 175 wit a 27 inch waist, nice body. I dress nice and smell nice...

I walk with what I describe as a dominant male body language behavior....chin high, back straight, just seems very confident in nature..

when I walk into the room, I feel women checking me out....and I feel that I should approach, but I just dont want to because of what I have been saying all day today. I dont know if its my own insecurities or what, but I just don t know......its hard for me to explain because I probably am sounding like a little whiny or a little too afraid to approach and that is not the case....its that I dont want to approach because of my view of women seeing me as a competiton and a way to boost their self-esteem and I feel that with every woman now...so what do I do, if anything? the bottom line, women show interest, but I dont want to approach based on what I just said.
 

tmpgstx

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I know what you mean and i do the same thing. I don't approach either. They'll show deep stares but i won't approach. If there is one i do find that really want to find more out about i'll give half a smile and if she smiles back, then i know approaching is gonna be a good thing, none of that flake BS.

Try doing the same and see what happens. If she smiles back, that's a good sign that she wants to talk to you and won't do the flake thing which is to act really cold shouldered though she was showing interest too.
 

Bill

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You definitely need to let yourself fail, and learn from it.

Failing to get somewhere with a particular woman isn't the end of the world, it's an opportunity to meet another woman.

I'm no psych major, but it does look like you have some kind of self-esteem/insecurity issues. My advice: stop caring so much what others might think.

But then again this thread is about the aforementioned article, care to come back on topic?

-Bill
 

Mr. Cardio

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I dont think its my insecurity, but hey, i dont know....the article basically confirmed what I was already thinking, that is why I am posting this on this thread here....so I dont know.
 
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