A Bit Confused About This Girl

[Learning Curve]

She wants an LTR with you and needs to test if she can manipulate you sex-wise.

Hope that solves your confusion.

This yes.

But, you have to test this theory.

Make a move for sex that is clear and shows you want to have sex.

If she stops you, and she just says "no" you can open the conversation there and ask what's going on.

99% percent of the time she will tell you, either what @AmsterdamAssassin said, which it will be in the lines of "what are we?" "where is this going?" typical stuff that happens all the time like a predictable hollywood blockbuster movie.

Don't ask for a relationship, let her bring it up. And just go along with it. Let her be her idea, not yours. Don't force it, even if you like the chick.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

OP, how much does she *enjoy* sex? The lower her sex drive, the easier it is for her to stick to her guns.

 

[SW15]

Make a move for sex that is clear and shows you want to have sex.

If she stops you, and she just says "no" you can open the conversation there and ask what's going on.

99% percent of the time she will tell you, either what @AmsterdamAssassin said, which it will be in the lines of "what are we?" "where is this going?" typical stuff that happens all the time like a predictable hollywood blockbuster movie.

Don't ask for a relationship, let her bring it up. And just go along with it. Let her be her idea, not yours. Don't force it, even if you like the chick.

There are women who believe it is the man's responsibility to initiate the DTR conversation. There are women who perceive that if they have to start the DTR conversation that they will lose attraction for the man. This is a line of thinking that is common with more submissive type females, which are rarer. It would be more common now for a woman to feel comfortable enough to initiate a DTR conversation without losing attraction.

Making a move for sex, getting rejected, and then asking what's going on could be a way to start a DTR conversation.

I stand by my original conclusion that her withholding sex is a bad sign and that he could be justified in walking away based on that. There are men who would walk away based on that action alone.

 

[Learning Curve]

There are women who believe it is the man's responsibility to initiate the DTR conversation. There are women who perceive that if they have to start the DTR conversation that they will lose attraction for the man. This is a line of thinking that is common with more submissive type females, which are rarer. It would be more common now for a woman to feel comfortable enough to initiate a DTR conversation without losing attraction.

Making a move for sex, getting rejected, and then asking what's going on could be a way to start a DTR conversation.

I stand by my original conclusion that her withholding sex is a bad sign and that he could be justified in walking away based on that. There are men who would walk away based on that action alone.

I agree on some points with you, and this might be from your experience.

From my experience, there is no woman who wants a LTR from a man and does not bring it up first. All of my LTR did bring it up first, i never mentioned a word about LTR. Never lost attraction, nothing changed.

For a guy to mention it, when a woman is not ready, she will loose attraction. Because that's where "you are rushing things" comes in. When she is ready, she will bring it up. Again this is my experience.

When i say making a move and asking what's going on, is not to be a d1ick about it. It's just asking if "everything is fine?" because usually a woman that's all she needs, to open up. You can also avoid it, and just move on and end the night. But that will delay the whole point.

I do agree is a bad sign, but again it depends on the situation. But walking away because he suddnely does not get sex without a justification is pointless.

He could either find out directly, or wait to find out which will take more time.

It's up to him.

 

[SW15]

For a guy to mention it, when a woman is not ready, she will loose attraction. Because that's where "you are rushing things" comes in. When she is ready, she will bring it up. Again this is my experience.

I can see this happening. I think it would be up to a guy to try to only mention it when he thinks she's ready. Mentioning it before she's ready could be at best a short term unpleasant conversation and at worst a "you are rushing things" scenario in which he doesn't recover and a budding relationship dies earlier than it could have if managed better.

From my experience, there is no woman who wants a LTR from a man and does not bring it up first. All of my LTR did bring it up first, i never mentioned a word about LTR. Never lost attraction, nothing changed.

Most women will be fine with bringing it up and it won't impact her attraction. More extreme submissive types won't bring it up but this would be a less common interaction for most men.

It's better if the DTR conversation happens before some woman starts withholding sex as a tactic to force the conversation and/or get the commitment.

It seems clear that she wants something more than sex. Unfortunately, I only want sex with her at this point as she has not proven herself worthy of exclusivity yet.

How do I keep things casual with sex when she is trying to change the frame? Or do you guys think this is a lost cause? Can I turn the table around still?

What was your Early Frame Announcement? I think it is dangerous when she tries to change the frame. I have tended to take the perspective throughout this thread that it isn't well positioned for success. @Learning Curve did give some good advice earlier about how to communicate this issue. .