A Bit Confused About This Girl

[jamesfromhouston]

Have been seeing a plate of mine for awhile.

We have had sex numerous times (but mostly in the beginning).

I assume she has high IL because she would always initiate and message me. And she is always keen when I ask her out. She is generally very compliant and excited to spend time with me. She buys me gifts. She tries to surprise me with things.

But something weird has been happening recently, she seems to avoid sex with me despite wanting to hang out with me as much as possible.

Recent times I've hung out with her and tried to initiate sex, she will refuse or come up with excuses. She is keen to initiate kisses, making out but has started to hold back on her sexual contact.

I get girls can get LMR and ASD but the thing is we have already slept together several times before; I thought we've already gone past that stage.

I don't understand why there has been a change here. I would like to continue seeing her and sleeping with her but this behavior has me confused.

I personally don't think a girl with high IL will withhold sex with you but at the same time, she displays a lot of high IL behavior. So what's going on?

What are your thoughts? Should I bring this up to her? Or should I just move on?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

She wants a commitment from you

 

[The Duke]

Could be anything listed above. Or she knows you are banging other girls. Or she is playing games to see if you want her for more than just sex.

Why haven't you asked her yet? That seems like the simplest way to find out the answer to your question. Afraid of the answer? IF its committment related it will probably be the beginning of the end if thats not something you want to reciprocate. I suspect its coming anyways.

Maybe she is having a herpes flair up? lol. Is she seeing anyone else?

 

[Gamisch]

Great answers, and the main reason why I lobe sosauve!

My initial thought was she's banging someone else, because women having a hard time sharing their bodies with multiple men. Anytime when there's this " sudden change " in regards to intimacy I suspect there's another man in the picture.

But all of the answer above make tons of sense and are way less doom and gloom than mine . I guess I am just wired to be suspicious like that...far from my best side tho!

 

[The Duke]

The few times a girl cut me off was when she suspected I was having sex with someone else as well or she started fuhking some other guy.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

As others have said OP, she's trying to "turn" you.

Keep seeing her as usual OP but avoid physical contact completely until she gives in and starts pawing you. At that point, bend her over and bang her silly. (and if she asks "why", you haven't been touching her, you're simply "tired". Lolz)

Two can play this game. You're in Houston bro - not only do you not have to take any sh1t, you're in fact in the driver's seat.

 

[SW15]

The withholding of sex is a bad sign, especially after sex has happened.

Mixed signals (the claim of high IL + withholding of sex) are never good either.

Many men have exited solely based on mixed signals and the withholding of sex.

I suppose you could try to start a conversation with her. This would likely feel a little "blue pill" to do. The whole "communication" angle often feels "blue pill". There are behaviors more beta and blue pill than this, but the communication thing could be done here.

Actions speak louder than words though and the action of sex withholding is a clear statement. She hasn't effectively explained her withholding of sex either.

 

[Krueg]

I agree with SW15.

if you went from steady sex to no sex thats a bad sign... If shes someone you actually like I would communicate with her. But if its just a short term plate your spinnning then, whatever.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Seems like my lovers enjoy sharing me over being exclusive with someone else. If they don't enjoy that anymore, they're welcome to seek their pleasure elsewhere. Doesn't change my affection for them.

Must be the eye patch.

 

[The Diver]

Have been seeing a plate of mine for awhile.

We have had sex numerous times (but mostly in the beginning).

I assume she has high IL because she would always initiate and message me. And she is always keen when I ask her out. She is generally very compliant and excited to spend time with me. She buys me gifts. She tries to surprise me with things.

But something weird has been happening recently, she seems to avoid sex with me despite wanting to hang out with me as much as possible.

Recent times I've hung out with her and tried to initiate sex, she will refuse or come up with excuses. She is keen to initiate kisses, making out but has started to hold back on her sexual contact.

I get girls can get LMR and ASD but the thing is we have already slept together several times before; I thought we've already gone past that stage.

I don't understand why there has been a change here. I would like to continue seeing her and sleeping with her but this behavior has me confused.

I personally don't think a girl with high IL will withhold sex with you but at the same time, she displays a lot of high IL behavior. So what's going on?

What are your thoughts? Should I bring this up to her? Or should I just move on?

As others said, she using sex as a tool:" You'll get sex if I'm more than just a side gig".

 

[jamesfromhouston]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I appreciate everyone's input.

It seems clear that she wants something more than sex. Unfortunately, I only want sex with her at this point as she has not proven herself worthy of exclusivity yet.

How do I keep things casual with sex when she is trying to change the frame? Or do you guys think this is a lost cause? Can I turn the table around still?

What I would do is take away my attention (your currency) and give that attention to other women, preferably in her presence, so she understands that she's relegating herself to being an 'option' instead of 'the logical choice'.

I can certainly do that and it may be good for me. However, I don't know how to do it in her presence. The only time I am in her presence is when we are out together. Are you suggesting that next time I invite her out and do this intentionally?

Why haven't you asked her yet? That seems like the simplest way to find out the answer to your question. Afraid of the answer? IF its committment related it will probably be the beginning of the end if thats not something you want to reciprocate. I suspect its coming anyways.

Maybe she is having a herpes flair up? lol. Is she seeing anyone else?

That's a very good question that I have asked myself a few times in this predicament. For some reason, I've convinced myself that directly asking her might make me appear weird or weak. "Hey why do you not want to have sex with me." But again it could be my own limiting belief. How would you ask her?

She might be seeing others, who knows (I always assume girls are seeing other guys) but as far as I can tell, she has really high IL for me. She's always trying to ask me out, initiate things (besides sex), is obedient even when I cancel, always tries to text me, very physical when we meet up, trying to hold my hands, make out with me, also when we had sex she also got really into it, etc. Based on @Desdinova High Score Theory, I am probably very high on the list.

I didn't think about that, but a flaring herpes makes sense, especially in the short term.

But most women who start 'regulating' the sex are just checking how well they can control you. Often, when they cannot regulate the sex, they also realise that you won't allow her to control the amount of drama she can inject into your life, et cetera.

Sudden withdrawal of sex is most often a congruency test.

I have a gut feeling this is it. But I've never encountered this before. In my experience so far it has always been at the 2 ends of the spectrum. Either a girl is interested in me and will have copious sex with me or the girl is not interested in me and will absolutely not want anything to do with me. If this is a congruency test, how can I pass it? I do like the girl, but I only want to keep her as a plate for something casual and want to turn things around.

The withholding of sex is a bad sign, especially after sex has happened.

Mixed signals (the claim of high IL + withholding of sex) are never good either.

Many men have exited solely based on mixed signals and the withholding of sex.

I suppose you could try to start a conversation with her. This would likely feel a little "blue pill" to do. The whole "communication" angle often feels "blue pill". There are behaviors more beta and blue pill than this, but the communication thing could be done here.

Actions speak louder than words though and the action of sex withholding is a clear statement. She hasn't effectively explained her withholding of sex either.

Out of curiosity, how would you start it and what would you say?

 

[Agamemnon43]

If she had herpes she would have told him.

It's a congruency test.

Breakup is the most probable outcome here.

 

[SW15]

@jamesfromhouston -- Look at #22 from this SoSuave website article

Sharing 25 Years of Dating Wisdom

A few days ago I turned 40 and tonight I was just thinking about past relationships... the things that went right, the things that went wrong, and the outright disasters.

www.sosuave.com

22) If a woman in a relationship begins to lose interest, it is usually impossible to regain it. The feelings you are having of confusion and fear mean something... trust your gut and move on immediately.

There is a reason why you feel confused. Listen to it. This aligns with my last post on this thread too.

 

[Rainman4707]

Have been seeing a plate of mine for awhile.

We have had sex numerous times (but mostly in the beginning).

I assume she has high IL because she would always initiate and message me. And she is always keen when I ask her out. She is generally very compliant and excited to spend time with me. She buys me gifts. She tries to surprise me with things.

But something weird has been happening recently, she seems to avoid sex with me despite wanting to hang out with me as much as possible.

Recent times I've hung out with her and tried to initiate sex, she will refuse or come up with excuses. She is keen to initiate kisses, making out but has started to hold back on her sexual contact.

I get girls can get LMR and ASD but the thing is we have already slept together several times before; I thought we've already gone past that stage.

I don't understand why there has been a change here. I would like to continue seeing her and sleeping with her but this behavior has me confused.

I personally don't think a girl with high IL will withhold sex with you but at the same time, she displays a lot of high IL behavior. So what's going on?

What are your thoughts? Should I bring this up to her? Or should I just move on?

These things are'nt complicated. Men think these scenarios are 'mixed messages'. They are'nt! If she is holding back sex, there is a reason, maybe another guy on scene.

Pull back, Dont give her your attention. If you do give her attention, you're playing into her frame.

 

[RangerMIke]

She wants an LTR with you and needs to test if she can manipulate you sex-wise.

Hope that solves your confusion.

Spot on. This happens all the time. Not a mystery.

 

[Learning Curve]

She wants an LTR with you and needs to test if she can manipulate you sex-wise.

Hope that solves your confusion.

This yes.

But, you have to test this theory.

Make a move for sex that is clear and shows you want to have sex.

If she stops you, and she just says "no" you can open the conversation there and ask what's going on.

99% percent of the time she will tell you, either what @AmsterdamAssassin said, which it will be in the lines of "what are we?" "where is this going?" typical stuff that happens all the time like a predictable hollywood blockbuster movie.

Don't ask for a relationship, let her bring it up. And just go along with it. Let her be her idea, not yours. Don't force it, even if you like the chick.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

OP, how much does she *enjoy* sex? The lower her sex drive, the easier it is for her to stick to her guns.

 

[SW15]

Make a move for sex that is clear and shows you want to have sex.

If she stops you, and she just says "no" you can open the conversation there and ask what's going on.

99% percent of the time she will tell you, either what @AmsterdamAssassin said, which it will be in the lines of "what are we?" "where is this going?" typical stuff that happens all the time like a predictable hollywood blockbuster movie.

Don't ask for a relationship, let her bring it up. And just go along with it. Let her be her idea, not yours. Don't force it, even if you like the chick.

There are women who believe it is the man's responsibility to initiate the DTR conversation. There are women who perceive that if they have to start the DTR conversation that they will lose attraction for the man. This is a line of thinking that is common with more submissive type females, which are rarer. It would be more common now for a woman to feel comfortable enough to initiate a DTR conversation without losing attraction.

Making a move for sex, getting rejected, and then asking what's going on could be a way to start a DTR conversation.

I stand by my original conclusion that her withholding sex is a bad sign and that he could be justified in walking away based on that. There are men who would walk away based on that action alone.

 

[Learning Curve]

There are women who believe it is the man's responsibility to initiate the DTR conversation. There are women who perceive that if they have to start the DTR conversation that they will lose attraction for the man. This is a line of thinking that is common with more submissive type females, which are rarer. It would be more common now for a woman to feel comfortable enough to initiate a DTR conversation without losing attraction.

Making a move for sex, getting rejected, and then asking what's going on could be a way to start a DTR conversation.

I stand by my original conclusion that her withholding sex is a bad sign and that he could be justified in walking away based on that. There are men who would walk away based on that action alone.

I agree on some points with you, and this might be from your experience.

From my experience, there is no woman who wants a LTR from a man and does not bring it up first. All of my LTR did bring it up first, i never mentioned a word about LTR. Never lost attraction, nothing changed.

For a guy to mention it, when a woman is not ready, she will loose attraction. Because that's where "you are rushing things" comes in. When she is ready, she will bring it up. Again this is my experience.

When i say making a move and asking what's going on, is not to be a d1ick about it. It's just asking if "everything is fine?" because usually a woman that's all she needs, to open up. You can also avoid it, and just move on and end the night. But that will delay the whole point.

I do agree is a bad sign, but again it depends on the situation. But walking away because he suddnely does not get sex without a justification is pointless.

He could either find out directly, or wait to find out which will take more time.

It's up to him.

 

[SW15]

For a guy to mention it, when a woman is not ready, she will loose attraction. Because that's where "you are rushing things" comes in. When she is ready, she will bring it up. Again this is my experience.

I can see this happening. I think it would be up to a guy to try to only mention it when he thinks she's ready. Mentioning it before she's ready could be at best a short term unpleasant conversation and at worst a "you are rushing things" scenario in which he doesn't recover and a budding relationship dies earlier than it could have if managed better.

From my experience, there is no woman who wants a LTR from a man and does not bring it up first. All of my LTR did bring it up first, i never mentioned a word about LTR. Never lost attraction, nothing changed.

Most women will be fine with bringing it up and it won't impact her attraction. More extreme submissive types won't bring it up but this would be a less common interaction for most men.

It's better if the DTR conversation happens before some woman starts withholding sex as a tactic to force the conversation and/or get the commitment.

It seems clear that she wants something more than sex. Unfortunately, I only want sex with her at this point as she has not proven herself worthy of exclusivity yet.

How do I keep things casual with sex when she is trying to change the frame? Or do you guys think this is a lost cause? Can I turn the table around still?

What was your Early Frame Announcement? I think it is dangerous when she tries to change the frame. I have tended to take the perspective throughout this thread that it isn't well positioned for success. @Learning Curve did give some good advice earlier about how to communicate this issue. .