After giving it some thought, turns out my fear of rejection isn't *really* a fear of rejection

[SW15]

you will eventually reach a bottleneck where your phobias and traumas will hold you back, as you won’t know what to do with the IOIs you receive.

He has gotten there and likely got there a long time ago.

while you work on addressing those deeper issues, there’s no reason you can’t also focus on improving these variables. The opportunity cost of not doing so is simply too high, and progress in one area can often complement progress in another.

Agree

 

[GoodMan32]

IOIs will come and then they will come in abundance. How to do it is to keep the focus on LMS. The first ones you see will be really over the top obvious because you don't recognize the discreet ones. To get those over the top ones, really push on the LMS, it works for everyone at some level. Game is great... really hard to do without any success at game. The way to break the pattern is LMS, go hard at it.

A female coworker I worked with back in 2019-20 did the following:

-Asked me stuff like "Do you have a wife/girlfriend?"
-Would often pause her work to check me out
-Drew a picture of me holding a bouquet of flowers when she was supposed to be working

Sounds pretty obvious. Yet I didn't make a move because of how many times I've been wrong before (plus, at work, there's no wiggle room for being wrong)

If anything, the more obvious the clues are, the less likely I am to act (because the more obvious I think the clues are, the more of an autistic idiot I'm going to feel like if I turn out to be wrong)

 

[GoodMan32]

He has gotten there and likely got there a long time ago.



Agree

You're damn right when you say I've already reached the bottleneck where I'm afraid to act on IOIs.

 

[GoodMan32]

I came across an interesting article on the topic of acting/failing to act on IOIs:

https://medium.com/write-a-catalyst...n-who-missed-womens-flirty-signs-24268543e80c

The following comment took the words right out of my mouth:

 

[BPH]

I came across an interesting article on the topic of acting/failing to act on IOIs:

https://medium.com/write-a-catalyst...n-who-missed-womens-flirty-signs-24268543e80c

The following comment took the words right out of my mouth:

View attachment 13800

This is the last comment I'm going to make on your posts, because I'm tired of seeing your bullsh** at the top of my recent feed whenever I come to this forum.

You have a choice.

You could turn off the computer, start going to the gym, start approaching women in real life, and fail over and over again until you eventually start to make progress.

Or...

You could keep doing what you're doing by telling people why you can't do things, read material online like this stupid article that gives you an excuse to be miserable, and stay where you are in life wondering why you can't get the women you want as if we aren't slapping you in the face with the answer.

There are two ways men can approach hardship in life; they can avoid it, or they can overcome it. So far you are opting for the former.

Is it hard to make these changes? Yes. Will you be extremely uncomfortable? Yes. Are you going to be doubting yourself the entire way? Yes. But if you stick with making adjustments long enough without deviating it is almost statistically impossible for you not to succeed.

Because right now, fundamentally, you are a pu**y; you are not attractive, you are not confident, you are not successful. And yet you seem more content with spending your days on this forum complaining in a multitude of slightly different ways rather than doing anything meaningful in the real world about them.

You are not entitled to sex. You are not entitled to love. You are not entitled to children, happiness, a wife, marriage, anything. Nobody is coming to save you.

So either save yourself, and start doing something about it, or shut up and stop wasting everybody's time so we can focus on people who will act on the advice they're given.

 

[crowolf]

What's all this yappin' about? Either you are a man and find a way to go out there and do it. Or you are a weakling who is maybe not destined to procreate. No amount of excuses or theorizing will help you.

 

[Gamisch]

I came across an interesting article on the topic of acting/failing to act on IOIs:

https://medium.com/write-a-catalyst...n-who-missed-womens-flirty-signs-24268543e80c

The following comment took the words right out of my mouth:

View attachment 13800

This is how women collectively literally separate the men from the boys. Because in this boys- men example the boys are focused on how scared they are ,while the men aren't afraid to go and get it. Every woman that rejected you proofed a fantastic service to the next one you don't dare to approach. Not to be a d1ck, just harsh facts.

Being a man isn't supposed to be easy. In no way shape or form. And you found that article only because that's what you're looking for on Google....cmon now.

We're running in circles bro..it's time to get the the next phase where you'll be DOING the work that needs to be done. Basically it's a one way street from here on: you either stay exactly where you are now, or you take the advice given and move towards whatever your goal is( I guess women).

 

[GoodMan32]

This is how women collectively literally separate the men from the boys. Because in this boys- men example the boys are focused on how scared they are ,while the men aren't afraid to go and get it. Every woman that rejected you proofed a fantastic service to the next one you don't dare to approach. Not to be a d1ck, just harsh facts.

Being a man isn't supposed to be easy. In no way shape or form. And you found that article only because that's what you're looking for on Google....cmon now.

We're running in circles bro..it's time to get the the next phase where you'll be DOING the work that needs to be done. Basically it's a one way street from here on: you either stay exactly where you are now, or you take the advice given and move towards whatever your goal is( I guess women).

I mentioned on a past post that I've been wrong 100% of the time when I've expressed interest in a woman based on (what I thought were) IOIs.

It's not a matter of being a boy vs man; it's a matter of logic. Why bother acting on IOIs if I've gotten it wrong every single time in the past? What reason do I have to think it will somehow go differently the next time I act on a perceived IOI?

If my track record is any indictor, the next woman I refuse to approach would have turned me down anyway. So I'm not missing out on anything by refusing to approach her (oh wait, there is one thing I'm missing out on: an opportunity to be humiliated)

I get that being a man isn't supposed to be easy. Here's the thing: If I got it wrong 50% of the time (or, hell, even if I got it wrong 70% of the time) when acting on perceived IOIs, I'd be more open to acting on IOIs. But we're talking about a 100% failure rate.

Oh yeah, and as for the article? It landed in my Gmail inbox. The author is a poster on this forum by the way. He shared the full article last time I linked his work on here (since I'm not a member of Medium, I'm unable to read the full article; only a snippet). Perhaps he'll do the same again if he sees my post.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I mentioned on a past post that I've been wrong 100% of the time when I've expressed interest in a woman based on (what I thought were) IOIs.

It's not a matter of being a boy vs man; it's a matter of logic. Why bother acting on IOIs if I've gotten it wrong every single time in the past? What reason do I have to think it will somehow go differently the next time I act on a perceived IOI?

If my track record is any indictor, the next woman I refuse to approach would have turned me down anyway. So I'm not missing out on anything by refusing to approach her (oh wait, there is one thing I'm missing out on: an opportunity to be humiliated)

I get that being a man isn't supposed to be easy. Here's the thing: If I got it wrong 50% of the time (or, hell, even if I got it wrong 70% of the time) when acting on perceived IOIs, I'd be more open to acting on IOIs. But we're talking about a 100% failure rate.

Oh yeah, and as for the article? It landed in my Gmail inbox. The author is a poster on this forum by the way. He shared the full article last time I linked his work on here (since I'm not a member of Medium, I'm unable to read the full article; only a snippet). Perhaps he'll do the same again if he sees my post.

Actually, your reasoning contains a logical flaw known as the gambler’s fallacy. This is the mistaken belief that past outcomes influence future probabilities in unrelated events. Your perception of a “100% failure rate” with IOIs does not mean you’re doomed to fail again. Each interaction with a woman is independent and has its own unique context, so the odds of success (or failure) aren’t connected to previous experiences.

For instance, just because you’ve misread IOIs before doesn’t mean every future IOI will also be misinterpreted. Each situation involves different variables—your looks, money, status, personality, and even the frequency of your approaches. We also explained how to increase the odds in your favour by improving these variables or simply increasing your approach rate, which can shift the outcome in a positive direction.

However, it’s also worth noting that unresolved phobias, traumas, or fears around rejection may be affecting how you perceive and respond to IOIs. These emotional blocks might make it harder for you to act confidently. Unless you address these underlying issues, your success rate will feel more randomized because you’re not working with the full range of tools available to you.

In conclusion, your reasoning is illogical because it assumes a pattern where none exists and overlooks actionable steps that could improve your results.

 

[GoodMan32]

Actually, your reasoning contains a logical flaw known as the gambler’s fallacy. This is the mistaken belief that past outcomes influence future probabilities in unrelated events. Your perception of a “100% failure rate” with IOIs does not mean you’re doomed to fail again. Each interaction with a woman is independent and has its own unique context, so the odds of success (or failure) aren’t connected to previous experiences.

For instance, just because you’ve misread IOIs before doesn’t mean every future IOI will also be misinterpreted. Each situation involves different variables—your looks, money, status, personality, and even the frequency of your approaches. We also explained how to increase the odds in your favour by improving these variables or simply increasing your approach rate, which can shift the outcome in a positive direction.

However, it’s also worth noting that unresolved phobias, traumas, or fears around rejection may be affecting how you perceive and respond to IOIs. These emotional blocks might make it harder for you to act confidently. Unless you address these underlying issues, your success rate will feel more randomized because you’re not working with the full range of tools available to you.

In conclusion, your reasoning is illogical because it assumes a pattern where none exists and overlooks actionable steps that could improve your results.

It's true that just because I've failed 100% of the time when acting on (perceived) IOIs in the past, I won't necessarily fail if I act on a perceived IOI again.

At the very least, however, my track record would suggest I'm terrible at reading IOIs. Additionally, my extremely low self-esteem has given me an attitude of "There's no way a woman could be into me," thus making me prone to overcorrect in the opposite direction (and cast doubts on perceived IOIs, no matter how obvious the IOI might be)

I have my first counseling session with my new counselor tomorrow to address this stuff (and more)

Here's why we're going around in circles: A lot of posters have given me self-improvement advice, even though I'm not interested in self-improvement.

Here's the scoop: The fact I've had 9 non-escort sex partners (as well as gone on dates with many gals) proves there is a segment of the female that's into me, even if I make no improvements whatsoever.

I've simply had a hard time finding that segment these past 9 years.

I don't want to do self-improvement; what I want is to learn how to find/identify the segment of the female population that's into the non-improved me.

When I say I have a 100% failure rate, I only mean when acting on perceived IOIs. Obviously I've had successes; they just haven't come from acting on perceived IOIs.

 

[SW15]

I don't want to do self-improvement; what I want is to learn how to find/identify the segment of the female population that's into the non-improved me.

In that case, you would be looking for subpar women. For you, if that's your goal, you are looking near or at the bottom of the barrel.

There's a lot of competition now even for subpar women. Male thirst has gotten so bad that many subpar women have an insane number of options.

At one time, Playing with Fire did an experiment that showed that a subpar looking woman got 4x as many matches on Tinder as an elite level looking man.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

You might even need to self-improve to become competitive even with subpar women. That's the shifting within the market of the last 10-20 years.

In the past, you found a way to temporarily attract some subpar women using a bottom tier method that no longer exists. By the standards of 10-15 years ago, what you did was considered bottom fishing in seduction circles.

Your whole strategy in conventional mating has been to look for outlier cases. That's not viable. Looking for an outlier is going to cause more rejection and emotional pain if someone is doing infield approaches. This would be true even if you mastered solid technique like London Daygame Model or Mystery Method.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Being an autist really holds me back.

Maybe you should try to be an artist instead

I heard they get more girls...

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I don't want to do self-improvement; what I want is to learn how to find/identify the segment of the female population that's into the non-improved me.

You sound like a blue haired fat ugly feminist who would rather find a guy who likes fat ugly blue haired feminists than improving how she looks.

Then she wonders why no guys like fat ugly obnoxious blue haired women.

You're lazy.

You don't want to put in any effort whatsoever to get what you want.

And you have a handy set of excuses why not getting what you want is not your fault.

I don't see any pvssy in your future other than pros.

 

[GoodMan32]

In that case, you would be looking for subpar women. For you, if that's your goal, you are looking near or at the bottom of the barrel.

There's a lot of competition now even for subpar women. Male thirst has gotten so bad that many subpar women have an insane number of options.

At one time, Playing with Fire did an experiment that showed that a subpar looking woman got 4x as many matches on Tinder as an elite level looking man.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

You might even need to self-improve to become competitive even with subpar women. That's the shifting within the market of the last 10-20 years.

In the past, you found a way to temporarily attract some subpar women using a bottom tier method that no longer exists. By the standards of 10-15 years ago, what you did was considered bottom fishing in seduction circles.

Your whole strategy in conventional mating has been to look for outlier cases. That's not viable. Looking for an outlier is going to cause more rejection and emotional pain if someone is doing infield approaches. This would be true even if you mastered solid technique like London Daygame Model or Mystery Method.

Unfortunate but probably true to say the culture I partook in during my early 20s no longer exists.

I recall when I was with a fat 35 year old at age 21, some guy who was around the same age as me gave me a "what on earth do you see in her" double take. His reaction would suggest I could have done better...and would suggest I looked way better than her (Then again, he didn't know me, nor did he know about my baggage. Perhaps my baggage forced me to dip down on the looks scale)

Circling back to the idea that the culture of my early 20s no longer exists, let's examine the minimal success I've had since then.

-Sexless date in 2018 with a woman I'd estimate was 45-50. She approached me at a festival.

-One time sex with a 42 year old woman in 2021. I had been flirting with her off and on for 2 years by that point. I started flirting with her after finding out from a mutual contact that she's attracted to me.

-Sexless date with a 37 year old woman in 2023. I got the date from acting as another dude's wingman (the woman ended up preferring me)

Even with the 2018-2023 culture, I had some successes. I'm confident I could have successes in 2025.

 

[plumber]

A female coworker I worked with back in 2019-20 did the following:

-Asked me stuff like "Do you have a wife/girlfriend?"
-Would often pause her work to check me out
-Drew a picture of me holding a bouquet of flowers when she was supposed to be working

Sounds pretty obvious. Yet I didn't make a move because of how many times I've been wrong before (plus, at work, there's no wiggle room for being wrong)

If anything, the more obvious the clues are, the less likely I am to act (because the more obvious I think the clues are, the more of an autistic idiot I'm going to feel like if I turn out to be wrong)

I get it. do the stuff the others have suggested; also keep pushing on looks, money, status. As the LMS continues to increase the IOU will get even more bold up to and including when they will initiate. as others have suggested do the physical training to put some muscles and shape to the upper body. how this plays out is that men will treat you different if you do that, women will smell that difference in treatment and like you even more. if you get far enough to be physically better than average some of the feeling of being autistic and awkward will disappear from your mind. not all; but some.

definitely avoid the work setup unless unless the girl initiates. if a person is slow at reading body and emotional language, no much chance to be able to manage romance within work.