I attended a speed dating event today

[GoodMan32]

Alot to process here. Firstly let me explain something about my husband. 1. He is extremely handsome, tall and has an athletic but trim physique. Women do approach him regularly. Because of his looks he has had women fall into his lap all his teen & adult life. He has various female friends as he is well acclimated to women by virtue of the amount of exposure he has always gotten.

The communication issues crop up later in keeping a relationship going, which is a different sort of issue than @GoodMan32 is having. My husband learned how to navigate early on interactions with women (and is confident about approaching) because he knows he is a sought after man.

ASD is a continuum and no two individuals are quite the same. My husband is and probably will always be in denial about his ASD. That too creates difficulties in his interpersonal interactions and is not easy to deal with.

Frankly I think the therapist offered very sensible advice. If you behave in a socially bewildering way, the ASD offers some explaination/clarification to help others understand you. There are pros and cons of course and you must weigh those for yourself as an individual, but I prefer someone be open about what they are like. It helps me understand where someone else is.

I happen to have the benefit of a close friendship with one of my husband's ex girlfriends who knows him very well, is a long term close friend of his and happens to be a PhD in psychology and a therapist. She has given me tremendous insight into understanding him better. So he or we are quite lucky & fortunate in that way. Their relationship did not last but a great friendship arose from that. It has been super helpful for me, and she is a very cool person independent of him. So I have gained a wonderful female friend as a result of getting to know her.

My advice to @GoodMan32 is stop fixating so much on getting laid and focus on learning social skills and cultivating friendships with both men and women. My husband actually has a number of female friends. I know each of his female friends and trust in those interactions, just as he trusts my interactions with my male friends.

Quit seeing others as a means to an end because people can tell when you are associating with them for a use or purpose only, and people don't like that.

Speak with your therapist about that if it's an issue.

Thanks for your reply.

I must admit I'm still perplexed by my situation.

You mentioned your husband has extremely good looks. So did I at one point. At 17, I was nearly an 8 on the 1-10 scale. Yet, somehow, 17 year old me was viewed (at my school) as a freaky creep no girl would possibly want.

Like your husband, my case of ASD is mild.

The only difference I can think of (between him and me) is I'm not tall.

I'm not muscular either. Then again, you didn't necessarily say he's muscular. You said athletic but trim. That could have described the younger me too (I ran cross country and track in high school).

At my current age, I wouldn't call myself athletic...but I've at least remained trim.

 

[GoodMan32]

the pouting toddler angrily leaving the party because the other kids got to play with the cool toys

More like the other kids were harassing the cool toys. There's a decent chance some of the broads getting chatted up by other men during the open session didn't even want the guy (but were only being polite in chatting with him after he plopped himself down at her table)

 

[BeExcellent]

My view on opposite gender friends is well known here. I see them work just fine all the time (and have my whole life with my parents, my siblings, myself, my husband etc.)

Of course socialization is at issue here. I also think that OP needs to talk with a therapist to better understand social dynamics as it relates to his situation. He may or may not need medication, and medication may or may not help him. A good therapist who understands ASD can offer cognitive behavioral therapy and other tools to help with social calibration. I think it is kinda irresponsible for @SW15 to through out the usual machinations/statistical spouting based in a belief system that arise from his own individual experiences. Individual experiences cannot be generalized and extrapolated to the norm here.

OP has asked my opinion about a video of him interacting. Really I'm not qualified to render an opinion. I don't know the rest of the context of the situation or the behavioral context of OP's typical behavior in the environments he finds himself in.

Context (or mind-blindness to the importance of context) is often something ASD people struggle with. My husband (whose context I know well) fails to grasp the importance of context too. It is something we work together on with our therapist (a happily married male about 40 who specializes in nuerodiversity - and who, by the way, sees my husband's behavioral profile and will say, for my benefit and the purpose of discussion, let's assume your husband is ASD.....and then will go over strategies and tools that help him and help us, all while acknowledging my husband's denial of his condition which allows my husband to ego protect - which is why the denial is happening in the first place.)

I picked this therapist knowing well the ins and outs of who I am married to. But the important caveat is that mileage will vary because individuals vary and life circumstances will also vary.

So sweeping generalizations are less helpful when someone needs individual relational help. ASD is not a mental health problem. Its more pervasive than that. Think of it as an alternative operating system in the brain, and it is hard wired. It is the "make & model" of the person. And it can be very tough sledding to figure out what can be learned/modified and what can't.

Our OP needs to continue his journey toward greater understanding of himself and how he interacts with people around him. He's seeking assistance and he's acknowleding how he's built (the ASD). That is much more forthright than alot of other people. Even though this is an anonymous forum the regular contributors are well known through consistency of context. So I think helping him understand how intimate relationships generally work is useful; and as SW15 often describes, understanding the cultural landscape of today's dating environment is also useful.....

But neither set of generalization is granular enough to help him on an individual basis. This is where therapy becomes important.

I commend his honesty here. That's a big deal.

 

[GoodMan32]

My view on opposite gender friends is well known here. I see them work just fine all the time (and have my whole life with my parents, my siblings, myself, my husband etc.)

Of course socialization is at issue here. I also think that OP needs to talk with a therapist to better understand social dynamics as it relates to his situation. He may or may not need medication, and medication may or may not help him. A good therapist who understands ASD can offer cognitive behavioral therapy and other tools to help with social calibration. I think it is kinda irresponsible for @SW15 to through out the usual machinations/statistical spouting based in a belief system that arise from his own individual experiences. Individual experiences cannot be generalized and extrapolated to the norm here.

OP has asked my opinion about a video of him interacting. Really I'm not qualified to render an opinion. I don't know the rest of the context of the situation or the behavioral context of OP's typical behavior in the environments he finds himself in.

Context (or mind-blindness to the importance of context) is often something ASD people struggle with. My husband (whose context I know well) fails to grasp the importance of context too. It is something we work together on with our therapist (a happily married male about 40 who specializes in nuerodiversity - and who, by the way, sees my husband's behavioral profile and will say, for my benefit and the purpose of discussion, let's assume your husband is ASD.....and then will go over strategies and tools that help him and help us, all while acknowledging my husband's denial of his condition which allows my husband to ego protect - which is why the denial is happening in the first place.)

I picked this therapist knowing well the ins and outs of who I am married to. But the important caveat is that mileage will vary because individuals vary and life circumstances will also vary.

So sweeping generalizations are less helpful when someone needs individual relational help. ASD is not a mental health problem. Its more pervasive than that. Think of it as an alternative operating system in the brain, and it is hard wired. It is the "make & model" of the person. And it can be very tough sledding to figure out what can be learned/modified and what can't.

Our OP needs to continue his journey toward greater understanding of himself and how he interacts with people around him. He's seeking assistance and he's acknowleding how he's built (the ASD). That is much more forthright than alot of other people. Even though this is an anonymous forum the regular contributors are well known through consistency of context. So I think helping him understand how intimate relationships generally work is useful; and as SW15 often describes, understanding the cultural landscape of today's dating environment is also useful.....

But neither set of generalization is granular enough to help him on an individual basis. This is where therapy becomes important.

I commend his honesty here. That's a big deal.

I fully admit there are other contexts where my ASD might be more apparent.

Some autists, however, have such a severe case, it's extremely obvious in any context. The fact there are some cases where I can mask is a promising sign I'd say.

I went through a stretch in my younger days when I liked to deny my ASD (just like your husband continues to do). At my current age, I no longer deny it. My goal is more to hide it from a woman (I'd say I'm at least somewhat capable of hiding it from a woman, seeing as I came across as the better option, thus ended up getting the date with her, when the other guy in the vid you mentioned had me act as his wingman with a woman he liked the looks of)

 

[GoodMan32]

Social skill is going to be one of the bigger issues for him. There's been a decline in social skills in the USA and likely most Westernized countries in recent decades. Millennials and Gen Z in general have poorer social skills than predecessor generations. The increase in technology and screen time is the biggest factor for this.

He has multiple issues as he detailed in this thread, especially the thread's first post. The mental illnesses likely need some combination of psychotherapy and medication. A mental health professional can address that. Like many, he has had poor experiences with talk therapy and there are limitations to what talk therapy can actually accomplish in fixing male dating problems. The pregnancy phobia issue is quite abnormal. He and only one other poster who has gone away have had such bad pregnancy phobias.

my struggles with the ladies go way beyond mere social awkwardness

I was having a DM discussion with another member where I mentioned how my struggles with the ladies go beyond mere social awkwardness/ASD. Come to think of it, I suppose the topic warrants its own thread. In addition to my ASD/social awkwardness, there are many other factors working against me...

www.sosuave.net

I have mixed feelings on the subject of male-female friendships. I don't think that they are productive for men. I don't think it is natural for a man to be friends with a woman when he's physically attracted to her. He imight be able to be friends with women when he isn't physically attracted, but that's not a productive use of time either. The downside of not having female friends is that it is makes social circle introductions less likely. It's still possible to get them from acquaintance level women, but less likely. Those social circle introductions are extremely valuable for mid-tier men. Top-tier Chads don't need them at all, but that can make a major difference for a mid-tier man.

I think it is a good thing for a man to have positive interactions with female acquaintances. A man can have pleasant interactions with female co-workers and the girlfriends/wives of his existing male friends. While I don't think a man should be spending much 1-on-1 time with women outside of a sexually charged interaction, I don't think he should ignore women either.

One thing I should elaborate on with the mental illnesses:

I'm not mentally ill in a schizophrenic, yell-at-the-air-as-I-walk-down-the-street way. I'm mentally ill in more of a Sheldon from Big Bang Theory way.

I'm aware that's still not a turn on to the ladies.

 

[BeExcellent]

One thing I should elaborate on with the mental illnesses:

I'm not mentally ill in a schizophrenic, yell-at-the-air-as-I-walk-down-the-street way. I'm mentally ill in more of a Sheldon from Big Bang Theory way.

I'm aware that's still not a turn on to the ladies.

I disagree that it is mental illness at all. It's a variance from typical rather than mental illness.

Mental illness you are not born with.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Very funny.

Well, GM, they don't keep me around only because I'm glamorous

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm not mentally ill in a schizophrenic, yell-at-the-air-as-I-walk-down-the-street way. I'm mentally ill in more of a Sheldon from Big Bang Theory way.

I'm aware that's still not a turn on to the ladies.

Yeah, you'd be far more appealing, if you were a scion of The Sawyer Clan

 

[plumber]

I disagree that it is mental illness at all. It's a variance from typical rather than mental illness.

Mental illness you are not born with.

nice overview (your last few post on this)

there really is a spectrum. how the brain(person) is wired is really built in. how it gets that way, either genetic or other is not clear. I lean towards it being mostly genetic both inherited and mutation.

for the person that is ASD understanding does not solve. to socially interact a person needs the innate skills of reading others.

one of the things non ASD often do is assume that it is an effort problem or I mean just being lazy. its not; most high function ASD is very eager to do the effort or work, but.. simply do not have the ability.

if the person grows up with this situation, they for sure will end up getting lots of negative feedback and learn to cope. it is possible to work and adjust those cope to be better... but the root way of thinking is built in at a material level.

if a non ASD woman is able and wants to, she can have the very best man by being willing to learn and understand what she has (like you are doing).

the big glitches are that the biological drivers of women usually or always will not be attracted to the style of the ASD. The ASD somehow has to address the copes they learned early so those do not block them.

most ASD really value friends. one of the difficult things for ASD can be to learn how to accept the faults of others.

 

[GoodMan32]

nice overview (your last few post on this)

there really is a spectrum. how the brain(person) is wired is really built in. how it gets that way, either genetic or other is not clear. I lean towards it being mostly genetic both inherited and mutation.

for the person that is ASD understanding does not solve. to socially interact a person needs the innate skills of reading others.

one of the things non ASD often do is assume that it is an effort problem or I mean just being lazy. its not; most high function ASD is very eager to do the effort or work, but.. simply do not have the ability.

if the person grows up with this situation, they for sure will end up getting lots of negative feedback and learn to cope. it is possible to work and adjust those cope to be better... but the root way of thinking is built in at a material level.

if a non ASD woman is able and wants to, she can have the very best man by being willing to learn and understand what she has (like you are doing).

the big glitches are that the biological drivers of women usually or always will not be attracted to the style of the ASD. The ASD somehow has to address the copes they learned early so those do not block them.

most ASD really value friends. one of the difficult things for ASD can be to learn how to accept the faults of others.

You're damn right. Unfortunately, the qualities the typical man with ASD possesses will never turn on the vast majority of the female population. Even the likes of Musk and Zuckerberg would struggle with the ladies if it weren't for their money/fame.

You're also right when you say reading social situations simply isn't a skill we have. I'm on the milder end of the spectrum, yet even at 32 (when I had my last short-lived relationship), I had no idea whatsoever the woman expects the man to pick a venue for the date.

Let that sink in: It took until I was over 30 to find out a simple truth the typical guy knows at 16.

 

[BaronOfHair]

nice overview (your last few post on this)

there really is a spectrum. how the brain(person) is wired is really built in. how it gets that way, either genetic or other is not clear. I lean towards it being mostly genetic both inherited and mutation.

for the person that is ASD understanding does not solve. to socially interact a person needs the innate skills of reading others.

one of the things non ASD often do is assume that it is an effort problem or I mean just being lazy. its not; most high function ASD is very eager to do the effort or work, but.. simply do not have the ability.

if the person grows up with this situation, they for sure will end up getting lots of negative feedback and learn to cope. it is possible to work and adjust those cope to be better... but the root way of thinking is built in at a material level.

if a non ASD woman is able and wants to, she can have the very best man by being willing to learn and understand what she has (like you are doing).

the big glitches are that the biological drivers of women usually or always will not be attracted to the style of the ASD. The ASD somehow has to address the copes they learned early so those do not block them.

most ASD really value friends. one of the difficult things for ASD can be to learn how to accept the faults of others.

Most human beings are susceptible to psych disturbances of some sort or another... The manner in which we handle such things. OP is hell-bent on "Yes but"ing every attempt to steer him away from his dysfunctional thinking patterns and self-defeating behaviors, and towards healthier ones

 

[GoodMan32]

Most human beings are susceptible to psych disturbances of some sort or another... The manner in which we handle such things. OP is hell-bent on "Yes but"ing every attempt to steer him away from his dysfunctional thinking patterns and self-defeating behaviors, and towards healthier ones

I'd say the mere fact I attended a speed dating event is a major step in the right direction.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Let that sink in: It took until I was over 30 to find out a simple truth the typical guy knows at 16.

Every human being on this planet is regularly discovering things we weren't previously aware of, and unlearning things which are hindering our prospects for growth and evolution, hombre

You're really not special, good as I'm sure it may FEEL to be a real life equivalent to Troy Dyer

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Thanks for your reply.

I must admit I'm still perplexed by my situation.

You mentioned your husband has extremely good looks. So did I at one point. At 17, I was nearly an 8 on the 1-10 scale. Yet, somehow, 17 year old me was viewed (at my school) as a freaky creep no girl would possibly want.

Like your husband, my case of ASD is mild.

The only difference I can think of (between him and me) is I'm not tall.

I'm not muscular either. Then again, you didn't necessarily say he's muscular. You said athletic but trim. That could have described the younger me too (I ran cross country and track in high school).

At my current age, I wouldn't call myself athletic...but I've at least remained trim.

This is it right here OP. Your main opportunity for improvement. Hit the gym and in 3-6 months things could change.

The older women in your target demo generally aren't sticklers for super-savvy social skills like their younger socialite counterparts. Get the hot bod and the older women may start viewing you in the manner you want more often.

 

[plumber]

You're damn right. Unfortunately, the qualities the typical man with ASD possesses will never turn on the vast majority of the female population. Even the likes of Musk and Zuckerberg would struggle with the ladies if it weren't for their money/fame.

You're also right when you say reading social situations simply isn't a skill we have. I'm on the milder end of the spectrum, yet even at 32 (when I had my last short-lived relationship), I had no idea whatsoever the woman expects the man to pick a venue for the date.

Let that sink in: It took until I was over 30 to find out a simple truth the typical guy knows at 16.

now we know what drives them to get money/fame.. haha.

if you socialize below your status, effectively become Zuc or Musk within that group.

forgive others for not understanding. the brain "they" have doesn't allow it. its not that they don't want to understand, they can't.

for many ASD, how it can work is that they develop male friends that help them out. this will social proof them and they can SKIP the initial figure out stuff that is impossible to do. to have male friends like that, requires forgiving them for being what they are.

very often, real alpha leaders (funny term) will recognize an ASD and instinctively know what they have AND help them. just as often the ASD will mess it up because they will hold the friend to a higher level than anyone can be.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'd say the mere fact I attended a speed dating event is a major step in the right direction.

Now, attend more, alongside ever additional opportunity to be social that you can find

 

[GoodMan32]

This is it right here OP. Your main opportunity for improvement. Hit the gym and in 3-6 months things could change.

The older women in your target demo generally aren't sticklers for savvy-social skills like their younger socialite counterparts. Get the hot bot and the older women may start viewing you in the manner you want more often.

Funny story on the topic of older broads and the gym.

One time I ran into this older broad I know (and would love to bed) while she was heading to the gym. I told her I had stopped going to the gym.

She commented "From the looks of it, you don't need the gym."

A few years later, I got back into the gym for a bit...it just so happens I ended up in the gym at the same time as her. She gave a possible IOI in the gym.

 

[GoodMan32]

Now, attend more, alongside ever additional opportunity to be social that you can find

I'd like to attend more.

 

[GoodMan32]

now we know what drives them to get money/fame.. haha.

if you socialize below your status, effectively become Zuc or Musk within that group.

forgive others for not understanding. the brain "they" have doesn't allow it. its not that they don't want to understand, they can't.

for many ASD, how it can work is that they develop male friends that help them out. this will social proof them and they can SKIP the initial figure out stuff that is impossible to do. to have male friends like that, requires forgiving them for being what they are.

very often, real alpha leaders (funny term) will recognize an ASD and instinctively know what they have AND help them. just as often the ASD will mess it up because they will hold the friend to a higher level than anyone can be.

I've learned female friends (or even acquaintances) can help too.

For example, my next door neighbor (a woman in her 50s; my prime bedroom demographic) recently let me know I'm hurting my chances of getting an older woman when I share/hint at my age.

All this time, I thought sharing/hinting at my age was helping. I'm glad she set me straight.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Funny story on the topic of older broads and the gym.

One time I ran into this older broad I know (and would love to bed) while she was heading to the gym. I told her I had stopped going to the gym.

She commented "From the looks of it, you don't need the gym."

A few years later, I got back into the gym for a bit...it just so happens I ended up in the gym at the same time as her. She gave a possible IOI in the gym.

Her comment was a betaization attempt. Ignore that shiit.