Incel Circlejerk

[Clockwerk50]

Hi guys,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I haven’t been a member for long, but I’ve noticed an increase in posts focusing on the negativity of dating and certain lifestyles, as well as claims that self-improvement is impossible for some individuals. I joined because I had an issue with a specific woman and needed second opinions, and I had my reasons for staying. I thought this forum was meant for discussing strategies, dating scenarios, and self-improvement. However, it seems like the tone has shifted recently, which might be affecting traffic.

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

 

[BPH]

I try to weigh in on the posts of people asking for legitimate advice.

I would say back when I first joined it was more about self-improvement. Now there are so many useless filler posts (like there's a f***ing music thread for some reason), and a lot of times people come here to just ignore the advice they're given in the hopes that somebody will tell them what they want to hear.

 

[zekko]

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

From what posters say, and from what research I've seen, dating has become much more difficult for men in recent years. Assuming that's true (and I have no reason to doubt it) it makes sense that the forum would reflect it. That there would be a much more negative, self defeating attitude (which has always been around, but I do think it's become more common).

 

[corrector]

Some of the most negative posters about the dating market is @SW15 for example. I brought him up because you esteem him as someone who offers good advice. @sangheilios is also a good poster that checks all the points of self-improvement except for having a woman. You also have @BaronOfHair who talks of just offing yourself if you are in a bad situation and can't attract women. You can't get more negative than that.

Maybe you are looking at certain types of threads and trying to build some sort of case. But overall, if some of the heavy posters that have a solid rep on here are negative with the posts, then the dating market has gone to sh1t for both the average and above average guy. There is no other way to cut that.

 

[zekko]

I've always gotten the impression from reading PUA type material that it is only a minority of men who really succeed and "live the dream" as put forth by the gurus. I remember watching Mystery's old show, The Pickup Artist, on VH1. I always thought it was interesting that the goal of the show was to pick the one guy out of the group who could become the next great pickup artist. If it was true that you didn't need to be good looking or have money, if it was all in the method, why was the idea to have one guy to outshine the rest? Because it's true, there will always be the Chads who are better with women than others. Because women want the best guy.

Anyway, I've always been more of the LTR type, being a natural introvert. I like my friends and women close and intimate. I'm never going to feel sorry for a guy because he can't put together a harem of five revolving HB 9s on a regular basis. If you can do it, great, it works for you. If not, who the heck do you think you are anyway?

 

[Bingo-Player]

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

We've had almost a decade where the sexual marketplace has very much been in the favour of women there's no denying this

A lot of guys with sub par dating / social skills have recently started to have a VERY hard time as theres been nowhere to hide

Long gone are the days of a guy nervously / awkwardly doing an approach with a chick and fumbling his way into bed with her ,

Women do largely expect thing to go smoothly now and the guy to control things well if he passes that then she will open the door if he doesn't it gets shut in his face

This is what's led to the increase in black pill and Incel ideology.

Like anything in life dealing with women is a skill that must be honed , its a more difficult one to master because some guys do find women daunting

 

[BPH]

Some of the most negative posters about the dating market is @SW15 for example.

I wouldn't consider him negative. Maybe he is overly analytical sometimes, but he looks at numbers - not feelings.

 

[The Duke]

Hi guys,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I haven’t been a member for long, but I’ve noticed an increase in posts focusing on the negativity of dating and certain lifestyles, as well as claims that self-improvement is impossible for some individuals. I joined because I had an issue with a specific woman and needed second opinions, and I had my reasons for staying. I thought this forum was meant for discussing strategies, dating scenarios, and self-improvement. However, it seems like the tone has shifted recently, which might be affecting traffic.

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

What you have noticed has been getting worse the last few years. I wish they would ban some of these losers. They are bringing down the forum.

You are the company you keep. It keeps good people away.

 

[Plinco]

Hi guys,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I haven’t been a member for long, but I’ve noticed an increase in posts focusing on the negativity of dating and certain lifestyles, as well as claims that self-improvement is impossible for some individuals. I joined because I had an issue with a specific woman and needed second opinions, and I had my reasons for staying. I thought this forum was meant for discussing strategies, dating scenarios, and self-improvement. However, it seems like the tone has shifted recently, which might be affecting traffic.

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

It's definitely a change that I've noticed since lurking here in 2006 and joining in 2008. I took a break from this forum around 2010 and came back in 2019. There was a big shift in the attitude in that time as the prevailing outlook went from 'red pilled' to 'black pilled.' What's happening is that for various reasons, people are feeling less and less room for error in their lives and that they are ineffective. Ranging from not knowing how to think, to how to communicate, to making money, ect. and so have adopted a deterministic ('black pilled') philosophy. On the one hand, this black pill rationalizes away self-accountability, such as the need to get in better shape, communicate with people, striving for the best mental health, etc. The other reason is that people have lost their confidence in their future because they don't trust their own facilities.

The solution to this is accountability. People are in a negative state of mind because they are not taking enough responsibility for themselves. Ineffective thought process = ineffective outcomes. First one must adapt to the social decay, and then fix it by being a good example of functionality, and then actively work to fix the institutions. The dysfunction will continue until there are good people willing to fix it.

 

[BaronOfHair]

You also have @BaronOfHair who talks of just offing yourself if you are in a bad situation and can't attract women. You can't get more negative than that.

Just wait to read my thoughts on The Oscars

 

[SW15]

I wouldn't consider him negative. Maybe he is overly analytical sometimes, but he looks at numbers - not feelings.

You understand my goal. My goal is to look at numbers and not feelings. A lot of the numbers reflect men having a negative experience and that's a trend that's been going on for the majority of my time in the sexual marketplace (25 years).

I've always gotten the impression from reading PUA type material that it is only a minority of men who really succeed and "live the dream" as put forth by the gurus.

My sense is similar to yours. It has always seemed to me that the majority of men who try PUA type material end up failing with it. Failing is a subjective term that can mean different things to different people. In general, I don't see most men who consume PUA content ending up seducing many women. Some might end up using it to get 1-2 long term girlfriends over a 5+ year period.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Hi guys,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I haven’t been a member for long, but I’ve noticed an increase in posts focusing on the negativity of dating and certain lifestyles, as well as claims that self-improvement is impossible for some individuals. I joined because I had an issue with a specific woman and needed second opinions, and I had my reasons for staying. I thought this forum was meant for discussing strategies, dating scenarios, and self-improvement. However, it seems like the tone has shifted recently, which might be affecting traffic.

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

Long story short:

-Red Pill Theology refracted Intersectionality's assertion that life is polarized between Oppressors and The Oppressed. Only in this case(so we're told, by The Ayatollahs of RPT, anyway) it's we MEN(rather than women, non-whites, gays, and trannies)who are The Oppressed, by a Gynocentric, Feminine Primary social order that was allegedly set up for the express purpose of keeping us under foot

-A sizeable portion of the male population found this new religion just as comforting as Intersectionality is to women, non-whites, gays, and trannies

-Being a True Believer in such a theology inevitably results in a mindset which dictates "I was screwed over by Gynocentism, therefore I shouldn't have to do anything to help myself, even in just small ways, such as putting on fresh clothes each day, throwing on deodorant, and washing my ass at least once a day. The System needs to collapse in it's entirety, so that we can build The Kingdom Of Heaven on Earth... One where no bias towards and prejudice against men exists"


As to whether or not this is cyclical: Yes and No. While poisonous dogmas like these have always been with us, in some form or fashion, we definitely go through societal cycles in which they're mistaken for an advanced way of existing by a sizeable chunk of the citizenry. We're in the midst of one such cycle today

 

[Solomon]

Hi guys,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I haven’t been a member for long, but I’ve noticed an increase in posts focusing on the negativity of dating and certain lifestyles, as well as claims that self-improvement is impossible for some individuals. I joined because I had an issue with a specific woman and needed second opinions, and I had my reasons for staying. I thought this forum was meant for discussing strategies, dating scenarios, and self-improvement. However, it seems like the tone has shifted recently, which might be affecting traffic.

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

Negative posters have always been around even in 2008 but back then we checked that shyt really quick at the door. It was a different era where complaining and whining was far less tolerated. You also had a level of posters who were really out there improving and high IQ, even if you read some of their old posts/FR's you can tell some of these guys were really bright by their writing styles. Overtime a lot of those guys moved on got married or just left. The pool got replensihed however it became more of the incel types instead of the studs who made this site what it is IMO the Golden area was from 200-2004 SIlver era 2004-2008 Bronze Era 2009-2012. After 2012 the site IMO went of a cliff. I still post here because you can't have these conversations with your friends and also I want to give back value

I used to be very positive and had massive results in a short period. However, over time I became jaded and even misogynistic due to so many negative experiences with women (being ghosted, flaked on, rejected can take a toll on you especially when you do nearly 40000 approaches in 15 years takes its toll etc)cause I was frustrated. However, quarantine 2020 changed my life. I had to take responsibility that I was the root of the problem. My mindset has changed a lot. I haven't watched porn in over 5 years. Porn is toxic and demonic and I viewed women as objects not human beings. I now view women as human beings again (crazy typing this out loud)and they aren't perfect my empathy is getting better. I'm not saying life is perfect I still struggle but now I'm more realistic about things

I try to weigh in on the posts of people asking for legitimate advice.

I would say back when I first joined it was more about self-improvement. Now there are so many useless filler posts (like there's a f***ing music thread for some reason), and a lot of times people come here to just ignore the advice they're given in the hopes that somebody will tell them what they want to hear.

The site has changed unfortunately the tone is now more "RedPill" you and I came around the same time, when I came it was all about actions yes there was theory too but the IQ of the average poster in 2010 was far superior than it is now. You had some intecullas that could get in-depth on topics and speak about nuances based of experiences and also cause they were smart. A lot of my earlier posts when I first started were field reports, I learned a lot by posting them and the value wasn't to brag but back then I actually posted FR"s with pictures/video clips this was unheard of back in 2008 for someone doing it for free.

Field reports are outdated in these times. IMO you are better off keeping a journal and keeping it off sosuave. A few guys have been caught by their girlfriends or wives and had to get off the site. One of my favorite posters "Amante Silvertrie" for example his wife found his post and he dissaperead overnight. If I ever get in a LTR or marriage you will probably not see post here again, maybe I'll make a new account and post in the wealth success section only. This year I have kept a journal on the women I have dated, not FR's per se but just a journal on women I have dated and trying to figure out patterns or issues that I have with certain type of women among other things.

I've always gotten the impression from reading PUA type material that it is only a minority of men who really succeed and "live the dream" as put forth by the gurus. I remember watching Mystery's old show, The Pickup Artist, on VH1. I always thought it was interesting that the goal of the show was to pick the one guy out of the group who could become the next great pickup artist. If it was true that you didn't need to be good looking or have money, if it was all in the method, why was the idea to have one guy to outshine the rest? Because it's true, there will always be the Chads who are better with women than others. Because women want the best guy.

Anyway, I've always been more of the LTR type, being a natural introvert. I like my friends and women close and intimate. I'm never going to feel sorry for a guy because he can't put together a harem of five revolving HB 9s on a regular basis. If you can do it, great, it works for you. If not, who the heck do you think you are anyway?

Mystery show even back in 2007 was corny but as a guy who went out with Naturals in 2006 and saw stuff infield that people would think sound like a Hollywood movie script. I needed to understand how was it that some guys had women literally fighting over them, having them buy drinks etc. And other guys struggled. I learned a lot hanging out with naturals and I improved my game drastically because I'm a person who learns by watching and then doing. However there were certain things they couldn't explain to me sosuave helped fill in those gaps. In regards to looks I will say physique matters more. Being fat is a turn for women(same for men)but if you have a good body it can go a long way. I know a guy who didn't have the best face but he was jacked and banged tons of chicks Back in 2006-2015 your phyisque matters a whole lot more than it does today. Back in 2006 I remember you could see 3 girls that were dimes walking the street and it wasn't hard to see smokeshows. Now a days you're lucky if you see 1 or 2 at a bar last time I went

I wouldn't consider him negative. Maybe he is overly analytical sometimes, but he looks at numbers - not feelings.

Looking at numbers is good, however, I will say I never wanted to be the average. I thought the point of this site was to be the best version of yourself? I'm not saying the number guys are wrong I'm saying that you can become the exception to the rule. I have done stuff infield that people would say are lies. I have learned it's best to focus on yourself and not worry about "Looking cool" it comes of as cringe and insecure or even worse boastful. I have been humbled a lot in the last 5 years


Self-improvement works and we know this to work because since this site inception there have been Hundreds of men who when they first got here sturggled with women or didn't do well and they put the work in. You can read it in the field reports, posts etc. Yes the game has changed since 2000 but the core tenents of self-improvement have stood the test of time even before sosuave existed and will continue to work long after we are all gone or if this site is ever to go

You understand my goal. My goal is to look at numbers and not feelings. A lot of the numbers reflect men having a negative experience and that's a trend that's been going on for the majority of my time in the sexual marketplace (25 years).



My sense is similar to yours. It has always seemed to me that the majority of men who try PUA type material end up failing with it. Failing is a subjective term that can mean different things to different people. In general, I don't see most men who consume PUA content ending up seducing many women. Some might end up using it to get 1-2 long term girlfriends over a 5+ year period.

Nothing wrong with numbers, I enjoy your post sometimes you need analytical break downs but honestly, sometimes you repeat redpill talking points that are already known, it would be nice to hear your personal experiences in the field and the stuff that has worked for you or is working for you, IMO that adds a lot of value to the site. I myself try to mix numbers with anecdotal evidence. IMO numbers would not have helped in 2008 when I was trying to talk to women however this brigns me back to a point i made earlier a lot of guys aren't looking for actionable advice unless it's something very common "she flaked what should I do" or "How Do I get my ex back" these type of post have been here since the beginning and a lot of them bore me ha ha

To conclude
I don't claim to know it all, I still struggle with self-improvement but I know it works because the times in my life where i"ve been dialed in working my business, working on approaching, working on fitness I've seen results. We are in a different era and in a transition period lotta guys are having trouble adapting cause it's harder than ever however I would argue once you put the work in, it actually get's easier

 

[corrector]

Nothing wrong with numbers, I enjoy your post sometimes you need analytical break downs but honestly, sometimes you repeat redpill talking points that are already known, it would be nice to hear your personal experiences in the field and the stuff that has worked for you or is working for you, IMO that adds a lot of value to the site. I myself try to mix numbers with anecdotal evidence.

Exactly. The numbers actually reflect both red-pill and black-pill talking points. He also makes posts about income threshold and looks/social ackwardness. The point is, if you don't check the boxes and your life situation is already challenging, then it provides the blackpill justification to just give up. He also mentions that reality that guys generally have low comparitive value compared to even post-wall very old women. I would say the best negative posts involve math.

 

[zekko]

Back in 2006 I remember you could see 3 girls that were dimes walking the street and it wasn't hard to see smokeshows. Now a days you're lucky if you see 1 or 2 at a bar last time I went

I don't hang out in bars, at least not at this point in my life. But I see attractive women everyday (I don't really believe in 10s). They might be waitresses, or shopping in the grocery store, but they're out there. Beauty is common. There are more fat women now with the obesity epidemic and all (and fat guys too).

 

[corrector]

I haven't watched porn in over 5 years. Porn is toxic and demonic and I viewed women as objects not human beings. I now view women as human beings again (crazy typing this out loud)and they aren't perfect my empathy is getting better. I'm not saying life is perfect I still struggle but now I'm more realistic about things

What type of porn did you watch? Hardcore or softcore? I still look at softcore/bikini (ie non-nude photos) involving escort ads. The services offered in those ads could turn me on. However, I'm not sure if that if this is viewing women as objects, but as a business and this is their way of advertising their services to the public, and being a potential client could be triggering. I do agree that hardcore porn could be utterly demonic and degrading and goes way beyond any possible justification. At least with escort pics, it's clear there is a problem with the ladies department and this might be the only desperate access to a fleeting feeling of intimacy with someone who will deal with you (ie depending on the type of escort / experience if that in itself is not too degrading or that too could backfire), so I don't feel as much guilt looking at those types of things/videos. Same thing with OF linked to their sites. However, I also think escorts (ie and the system of it) is totally demonic and in fact, I got attacked by demons the last time I used one in 2014.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The point is, if you don't check the boxes and your life situation is already challenging, then it provides the blackpill justification to just give up

Yeah, this is similar to "not checking the boxes" needed to snag a high-paying job.... You can either do what's required to at least become a viable candidate for such a gig, OR you can endlessly manufacture rationalizations for NOT doing so I.E. "Late Stage Capitalism has abandoned the working man, so I shouldn't have to impress The Evil Overlords who rule this planet. The System needs to become more Equitable and Inclusive"

As others have noted already, this was all self-explanatory to most men, as recently as the early 10s. It's only been from '16-The Present that we started interpreting basic self-help as "Fueling The Gynocentric Social Order", same way Woke Progressives consider encouraging non-white students to communicate in Standard English as "Perpetuating Classism and Linguistic Racism"

 

[Solomon]

What type of porn did you watch? Hardcore or softcore? I still look at softcore/bikini (ie non-nude photos) involving escort ads. The services offered in those ads could turn me on. However, I'm not sure if that if this is viewing women as objects, but as a business and this is their way of advertising their services to the public, and being a potential client could be triggering. I do agree that hardcore porn could be utterly demonic and degrading and goes way beyond any possible justification. At least with escort pics, it's clear there is a problem with the ladies department and this might be the only desperate access to a fleeting feeling of intimacy with someone who will deal with you (ie depending on the type of escort / experience if that in itself is not too degrading or that too could backfire), so I don't feel as much guilt looking at those types of things/videos. Same thing with OF linked to their sites. However, I also think escorts (ie and the system of it) is totally demonic and in fact, I got attacked by demons the last time I used one in 2014.

I watched hardcore it came to the point that One gir and One guyl wasn't enough so I would watch 2 girls and one guy but that wasn't enough. It got out of hand that I had to watch 10 girls and 1 guy. Then when I had sex with girls I was limp. I'm not trying to be graphic but porn really messes you up and bastardized what the creator intended sex to be

 

[Solomon]

Exactly. The numbers actually reflect both red-pill and black-pill talking points. He also makes posts about income threshold and looks/social ackwardness. The point is, if you don't check the boxes and your life situation is already challenging, then it provides the blackpill justification to just give up. He also mentions that reality that guys generally have low comparitive value compared to even post-wall very old women. I would say the best negative posts involve math.

IMO I don't take people seriously who talk about the experience of high earners but haven't been around them or make a high-earning living themselves. I take everything with a grain of salt however when it comes to money it's easy to tell who has it on this forum and who is just recycling talking points. I don't know if SW is around high earners or not but if he is, he really needs to dig in cause a lot of his stuff is based on these RP talking points.

The obsession of money will improve your life with women usually comes from guys from the outside looking in, I know when I was making less money I had a lot of views about money that was just rehashed redpill talking points. If you struggle to get women while you broke you will still struggle if you make money. Money only matters to women if they are looking for a provider or a Golddigger. Women who like you will not a make a big fuss. I remember in 2010 I was broke and jobless for a few months. I had women come to pick me up and go on dates and pay granted these women were subpar, In 2015 I was dating a Regional Manager who worked at the Hilton she made nearly tripple the money than I did. I have said it countless times but money should be used to enhance your lifestyle guys who don't make money instantly think of tricking!

Once you start making more money and start to experience things yourself i.e. social circle, dealing with high-earning women, living in a logistical target rich area etc. It completely changed my view. A lot of the stuff you see especially on youtube is dorks giving a an "anime harem" fantasy which is delusional. Yes you can meet higher quality women and not have to spent a lot, however, there was a popular game guru who recently was exposed for tricking of money on Onlyfans thots and prostitutes why would I take advice seriously from a guy like that? lmfao

 

[HaleyBaron]

Hi guys,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I haven’t been a member for long, but I’ve noticed an increase in posts focusing on the negativity of dating and certain lifestyles, as well as claims that self-improvement is impossible for some individuals. I joined because I had an issue with a specific woman and needed second opinions, and I had my reasons for staying. I thought this forum was meant for discussing strategies, dating scenarios, and self-improvement. However, it seems like the tone has shifted recently, which might be affecting traffic.

For those who have been here for years, is this the norm? Is it cyclical, or do you think it’s a permanent change?

Shut up, incel.

[Really who uses that word unironically.]