Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[GoodMan32]

I didn't realize that Doc Love was charging $200 in the early 2000s for his book. I didn't buy his book but I read some of his internet articles. They were helpful in my early days of awakening.

He only died in 2020.



I thought my way into good action. I was raised as a blue pilled, beta male nice guy. I was primarily raised by my mom as my dad wasn't around that much. They divorced when I was in high school. My father taught me nothing about interacting with the opposite sex.

I had poor experiences in high school. The first 2 years were a loss because that's when my growth spurt was happening. Around late sophomore year is when I hit 5'7"-5'8" and was at least minimally tall enough. That's when I first noticed that I was taller than most of the girls. The beginning of junior year is when I started to concentrate on meeting women. I was 5'8"-5'9". I topped out at 5'10" at the end of that year. Junior year was the first productive year of high school from a height perspective but I was still not doing as well on my approaching at school as I would have liked. I had personality problems stemming from being a nice guy. Those persisted throughout high school.

I arrive at college. I chose to go to "Hot Girl U" in part because of the seduction opportunities on campus. When freshman year wasn't going as well as I would like, I delved into internet articles and found Doc Love, David DeAngelo, and some others. That's when I started to think my way into good action with the knowledge base I was acquiring. Freshman year on campus is tougher than many would think. The upper class level females (sophomores - seniors) generally aren't interested in freshman males. Freshman females are in high demand from sophomore - senior males, graduate students, and general working age guys alongside other freshman males. I needed to make something happen and that's when re-construction started. It was a long process. As an early 40s male now, I considered all of college part of my process in learning seduction. I had made some good progress by junior and senior years.

We have a decent amount in common.

I too was raised primarily by my mom. My parents are still married to this day...but with my dad's work schedule when I was an adolescent, I would barely see him. My dad taught me nothing about girls either. The only thing even mildly girl-related I recall him saying during my adolescence: After he picked myself and a male friend up from a school dance in middle school, my dad asked us "Did you dance with any chickies?" (The answer for both of us was no)

Like you, I was also a late bloomer. I was only 5'1" in 8th grade. By the end of freshman year, I was 5'7" (which, as you put it, is at least minimally tall enough). I barely grew much after that; I topped out at 5'9"

 

[GoodMan32]

He is seeing escorts so that makes that arguement moot in this case since he has got that base covered. If you start going with the needs assertion then that will wreck any inner game by making someone desperate and into a scarcity mind-set. After all, you can now dumpster-dive, deal with any woman who is available to you because it's a "need" right? Wonder how that will fly in court in a rape case.

Unless you wish to say that "seduction" is in that hierarchy of needs, then that is another story.

To date, @GoodMan32 has not "come out" and he still is relying mainly on escorts. The women that he did end up going with probably would not care one way or another (ie assuming they can speak fluent English and understand what those heavy psyc terms mean in the first place, they would be like "whatever" lets get to bed, lol!)

Based on experience from my younger days, you're right when you say desperation can end up killing your game.

 

[GoodMan32]

OK...so I tell people to do their research...to get a knowledge base. You clearly have done that, you seem to be extraordinarily knowledgeable. From there is into action (I think that was actually the name of an article by Pook). Are you opening women every day? Have you developed the sense of fearlessness regarding rejection? Are you weight training and eating right, perfecting your physique? Are you running a 3 woman rotation?

Also...and this is a topic for another forum...or at least sub forum, but you say you are over 40. Testosterone production peaks and starts to decline at 27. 40's are where a lot of guys see a significant decline and benefit greatly from TRT. Doing so can make you actually healthier.

Normal ranges are 300 to 1100. I advise people I work with to stay in the higher end of the range.

Are you doing any martial arts? You are still young enough to pick up BJJ.

I tried sending you a PM but could not. I guess I can just post it here. This is what I looked like 6 years ago at age 56: photo.php

Here is what I look like now on TRT only: photo.php

Let me know if you need any help with your bodybuilding goals.

I know you were replying to a different poster. But I'm going to chime in on the topic of declining testosterone.

I'm 33, yet am already showing signs of (what some might call) an alarming testosterone drop. My sex drive is much lower compared to when I was in my early 20s.

This guy I know who's pretty much the same age as me (he's 34) still wants daily sex (and he said the fact I don't want daily sex is a sign I need more testosterone). I, however, am glad I no longer want daily sex. Looking back to my early 20s, my insatiable sex drive was a major distraction.

I guess what I'm saying is (and I know I'm probably in the minority here) I view my declining testosterone as a blessing in disguise.

 

[SW15]

I too was raised primarily by my mom. My parents are still married to this day...but with my dad's work schedule when I was an adolescent, I would barely see him. My dad taught me nothing about girls either. The only thing even mildly girl-related I recall him saying during my adolescence: After he picked myself and a male friend up from a school dance in middle school, my dad asked us "Did you dance with any chickies?" (The answer for both of us was no)

When a boy is primarily raised by his mother, he often ends up having issues in the mating marketplace. It's not the only cause of issues in the mating marketplace but it never helps. Mothers have a bad tendency to raise their sons as nice guys (their ideal) not realizing the damage that they are going to cause their sons in high school and early adulthood. A more active father can help reduce this effect. The problem is that a lot of fathers are beta males. While being a beta male didn't have a much of a penalty for Boomer males (who raised the Millennial males), it was a probably for Millennials and Gen Z's who came of age in the late 1990s and beyond.

Other male relatives (grandfathers and uncles) usually don't have enough exposure to their grandsons and nephews to make a difference even if they had the right mindset and experience to do so.

Like you, I was also a late bloomer. I was only 5'1" in 8th grade. By the end of freshman year, I was 5'7" (which, as you put it, is at least minimally tall enough). I barely grew much after that; I topped out at 5'9"

I lost 2 years of high school due to height. I remember starting my junior year and being 5'8" and looking down on women and thinking it was good. Junior year (when I moved from 5'8"-5'10") was when I was starting to get noticed a bit. I was also starting to make approaches and be more aggressive with females. I was also starting to encounter issues for being a nice guy. My home life was a bit unsettled around then as my parents separated and began their divorce in my sophomore year, finalizing it in the early part of my junior year.

While I could have a passable junior-senior year of high school due to sufficient height, there were still issues with being too nice of a guy and not a big douchebag. I needed to become a mega douchebag and I failed to do that.

Looking back to my early 20s, my insatiable sex drive was a major distraction.

I had a super high sex drive throughout the time period I described above. I was hornier than most males, which is how I started reading on the internet about seduction while in college. I was also watching porn and masturbating then too. My sex drive was nearly equal at 30 as it was at 20. It wasn't until my mid-30s when it started to slow down some. I'm still quite horny today in my early 40s. My testosterone readings have been above average and that's good. They were very high in my earlier 20s.

I never perceived it as a distraction but it could have been perceived as one.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

When a boy is primarily raised by his mother, he often ends up having issues in the mating marketplace. It's not the only cause of issues in the mating marketplace but it never helps. Mothers have a bad tendency to raise their sons as nice guys (their ideal) not realizing the damage that they are going to cause their sons in high school and early adulthood. A more active father can help reduce this effect. The problem is that a lot of fathers are beta males. While being a beta male didn't have a much of a penalty for Boomer males (who raised the Millennial males), it was a probably for Millennials and Gen Z's who came of age in the late 1990s and beyond.

Other male relatives (grandfathers and uncles) usually don't have enough exposure to their grandsons and nephews to make a difference even if they had the right mindset and experience to do so.



I lost 2 years of high school due to height. I remember starting my junior year and being 5'8" and looking down on women and thinking it was good. Junior year (when I moved from 5'8"-5'10") was when I was starting to get noticed a bit. I was also starting to make approaches and be more aggressive with females. I was also starting to encounter issues for being a nice guy. My home life was a bit unsettled around then as my parents separated and began their divorce in my sophomore year, finalizing it in the early part of my junior year.

While I could have a passable junior-senior year of high school due to sufficient height, there were still issues with being too nice of a guy and not a big douchebag. I needed to become a mega douchebag and I failed to do that.



I had a super high sex drive throughout the time period I described above. I was hornier than most males, which is how I started reading on the internet about seduction while in college. I was also watching porn and masturbating then too. My sex drive was nearly equal at 30 as it was at 20. It wasn't until my mid-30s when it started to slow down some. I'm still quite horny today in my early 40s. My testosterone readings have been above average and that's good. They were very high in my earlier 20s.

I never perceived it as a distraction but it could have been perceived as one.

Good. If you are high normal there is no reason to mess with that.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I know you were replying to a different poster. But I'm going to chime in on the topic of declining testosterone.

I'm 33, yet am already showing signs of (what some might call) an alarming testosterone drop. My sex drive is much lower compared to when I was in my early 20s.

This guy I know who's pretty much the same age as me (he's 34) still wants daily sex (and he said the fact I don't want daily sex is a sign I need more testosterone). I, however, am glad I no longer want daily sex. Looking back to my early 20s, my insatiable sex drive was a major distraction.

I guess what I'm saying is (and I know I'm probably in the minority here) I view my declining testosterone as a blessing in disguise.

The other concern is body fat and muscle mass. I was 212 lbs and under 11% b fat which was a really good place to be. Probably around 5 foot 9. However my body fat levels have been inching up and I am 230 now and probably around 15%. I liked being leaner. I am on TRT but keep my total test fairly low usually between 450-800.

I still did shrugs, nearly 20 reps with 375 lbs today, not bad for a guy my age, I still am a total gym rat. Being super muscular does not automatically get you women but when you combine it with good game it is a 1-2 punch. It is like being at least 3 inches taller.

 

[GoodMan32]

When a boy is primarily raised by his mother, he often ends up having issues in the mating marketplace. It's not the only cause of issues in the mating marketplace but it never helps. Mothers have a bad tendency to raise their sons as nice guys (their ideal) not realizing the damage that they are going to cause their sons in high school and early adulthood. A more active father can help reduce this effect. The problem is that a lot of fathers are beta males. While being a beta male didn't have a much of a penalty for Boomer males (who raised the Millennial males), it was a probably for Millennials and Gen Z's who came of age in the late 1990s and beyond.

Other male relatives (grandfathers and uncles) usually don't have enough exposure to their grandsons and nephews to make a difference even if they had the right mindset and experience to do so.



I lost 2 years of high school due to height. I remember starting my junior year and being 5'8" and looking down on women and thinking it was good. Junior year (when I moved from 5'8"-5'10") was when I was starting to get noticed a bit. I was also starting to make approaches and be more aggressive with females. I was also starting to encounter issues for being a nice guy. My home life was a bit unsettled around then as my parents separated and began their divorce in my sophomore year, finalizing it in the early part of my junior year.

While I could have a passable junior-senior year of high school due to sufficient height, there were still issues with being too nice of a guy and not a big douchebag. I needed to become a mega douchebag and I failed to do that.



I had a super high sex drive throughout the time period I described above. I was hornier than most males, which is how I started reading on the internet about seduction while in college. I was also watching porn and masturbating then too. My sex drive was nearly equal at 30 as it was at 20. It wasn't until my mid-30s when it started to slow down some. I'm still quite horny today in my early 40s. My testosterone readings have been above average and that's good. They were very high in my earlier 20s.

I never perceived it as a distraction but it could have been perceived as one.

Unfortunate but true about a guy being prone to beta nice guy characteristics if raised primarily by his mom.

I don't recall when exactly I started to slow down (in terms of horniness). Probably 27-ish.

And even now at 33, I'm noticeably less horny than I was at 27-ish (when I first started to slow down)

When I say my horniness was a distraction in my younger days, I remember days in college when all I could think about was going home after my classes to go on hookup websites. Sometimes I'd even go onto hookup websites from computer labs on campus.

My high sex drive also caused me to come on too strong back then.

 

[corrector]

When I say my horniness was a distraction in my younger days, I remember days in college when all I could think about was going home after my classes to go on hookup websites. Sometimes I'd even go onto hookup websites from computer labs on campus.

My high sex drive also caused me to come on too strong back then.

Nothing like being in your 20s, being horney like that and having money. In your 20s, money is more equated to access to pvssy when you need it the most. You'd be tempted to spend your last dollar, with that level of horniness. You'd probably be more prudent with your money as you get older.

 

[GoodMan32]

Cute is for girls and puppies, not for boys or men.

I remember when I was in middle school, my mom described one of the male teachers at my school as "cute."

This teacher was in his 40s, had grey hair, and was a large guy. If a woman is into that, fine, but I don't get how anyone would think a man with his description meets the "cute" descriptor.

 

[GoodMan32]

Again, you try to find a justification in the exception, so you can disregard the essence of my comment.

Just get it through your head that whatever you imagine would/should/could happen, if you don't take action, all you imagine is without value if it's not put up to the test.

No, I wasn't saying my mom's comment somehow invalidates your point about "cute" being an undesirable word for a man (when used to describe him).

I was merely adding onto the topic of grown men getting referred to as cute (with a surprising example)

 

[Masculinity]

I've had 9 free sex partners. That being said, the "make a move on a woman in person; get laid" strategy has never gotten me laid.

Of my 9 free partners,

• 7 came from hookup websites.
• 2 just sort of happened (with neither of us making the move).

I've also been on dates with 8 different gals. There's very little overlap between my dates and my intercourse (7 of the 8 gals I've had dates with were sexless).

The "make a move in person; get a date" strategy has only worked on one girl (Back when I was in college. And she was extremely strange. I had to break it off shortly into our relationship. Also, it's worth mentioning: She's one of my many sexless dates).

The rest of my dates came from the following strategies:

• Dating/hookup websites.
• The woman making the move on me.
• The date sort of just happened (with neither of us making the move).

So here's my question: Since making a move in person has given me a 0% success rate at getting laid (and only a minimal success rate at getting a date, with a girl I ended up regretting anyway), is it even worth it for me to try with in-person approaches? Or should I stick with methods that have given me more success (Dating/hookup websites. Waiting for the woman to approach me. Allowing it to just sort of happen, with neither of us making the move)?

One more thing I should mention on my OP: I know many of you are aware of my escort habit. I'm going to request everyone refrain from turning this into an escort thread. This thread isn't about escorts; it's about my successes/failures at getting a free woman (and how to maximize the odds of getting a free woman)

@GoodMan32: What do you mean by "free sex partners?"

 

[GoodMan32]

@GoodMan32: What do you mean by "free sex partners?"

Free sex partners means sex partners I didn't pay for sex.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

yeah, another reminder that, guys, men, are the only gender that were meant to have mentors