Had an interesting albeit disappointing date tonight

Barrister

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OP,

You should have known the night wasn't going to end well once the friend and her date effectively joined you for the long haul that evening. This isn't something a woman does/allows who really wants to be out on a date with a man she is interested in. You said you had beat around the bush for a few weeks. It sounds like you were more of an absent minded plan she made because she got bored.

Yes, the friend showing up was 100% planned by the woman and her friend. This is the kind of dumb sh1t women do and try to pass off like it is this crazy coincidence. If it was truly a coincidence, the friend and her BF or whatever he was would have talked for five minutes tops and then got their own table or sat somewhere else at the bar to give you two privacy. She wouldn't interfere with a date. The sex talk is just more female nonsense designed to make them feel in control in the situation with the men- although I would definitely have put them all (not just your "date") on the spot about the toys at that point if for no other reason to let them know I wouldn't be culled just because they want to discuss sex toys.

I would go no contact on this woman and see if she reaches out. If she doesn't, you can safely move on without having to wonder at all about what her intentions were.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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Wait, you were enjoying the socializing aspect of two thots' company, but not the thought of rearranging her guts?
If she was an HB8+ as you said, and dressed like that, I don't know how I would've held myself from trying to *uck her right there on that couch.
Also, why did you j*rk one off that day? Sounds like you weren't horny enough.
That day? Bro I've never jerked off on the same day or even day before a date in my entire life. So no, it had been about a week or two since I did last, at any given time I go 2-3 weeks in between it. Usually after 3+ weeks I start to see a rise in libido. I'm 300mg/week TRT too so that should speak volumes...it's just naturally low, it has been my whole life. It's been a serious barrier to casual things and even dating. When it's high I end up slaying for short bursts then may go months without it once I lose interest again.


OP,

You should have known the night wasn't going to end well once the friend and her date effectively joined you for the long haul that evening. This isn't something a woman does/allows who really wants to be out on a date with a man she is interested in. You said you had beat around the bush for a few weeks. It sounds like you were more of an absent minded plan she made because she got bored.

Yes, the friend showing up was 100% planned by the woman and her friend. This is the kind of dumb sh1t women do and try to pass off like it is this crazy coincidence. If it was truly a coincidence, the friend and her BF or whatever he was would have talked for five minutes tops and then got their own table or sat somewhere else at the bar to give you two privacy. She wouldn't interfere with a date. The sex talk is just more female nonsense designed to make them feel in control in the situation with the men- although I would definitely have put them all (not just your "date") on the spot about the toys at that point if for no other reason to let them know I wouldn't be culled just because they want to discuss sex toys.

I would go no contact on this woman and see if she reaches out. If she doesn't, you can safely move on without having to wonder at all about what her intentions were.
Yeah, good point. I have a habit of giving new people the benefit of the doubt too much...I should probably stop that.

I did actually basically tease them and imply they were degenerates for the vibrator stuff. They tried to claim men do the same thing with blow up dolls, I just laughed and said that's nowhere near the same thing as a $200 masterpiece of engineering sex toy that creates a mini earthquake and sucks up isolates the **** into a chamber of pressurized air. My god, it's actually insane. How can a **** even compare.

She contacted me the next day and we've been chatting. Don't really care if I see her again but if I do I will definitely bring that **** up if we do. In fact I almost want to fvck her more now so I can use the post-sex vulnerability to really drill her about this shvt and understand it so it won't happen again.



I agree with this. No porn and no masturbation is an excellent attraction and seduction practice. Not masturbating is going to help with escalations on first dates and help for pushing for same night sex from a bar approach.
I already do this by default and the difference when not consuming porn and not masturbating for sustained periods is staggering.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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For many guys it absolutely has. However, I know friends who are horny even if they rip it off 3 times that day.
For everybody else, it's super helpful to be "full". Wish i knew this back in highschool and college when i was a jerkboy beta with no libido.
And we go to the scientific studies on this topic that show its baseless and is likely the placebo effect at work...meaning people believe it works so it works, but nothing to do with doing it or not.

"Based on the available scientific evidence, there is no clear support for the idea that masturbating before dates leads to better dating outcomes due to reduced sexual aggression. The research on this topic is limited, and the existing studies do not directly address this specific question. However, we can examine some relevant findings:

Impact on sexual arousal and decision-making:
Research suggests that sexual arousal can affect decision-making and risk-taking behaviors. One study found that sexual arousal can impact sexual decision-making and self-control. However, this does not necessarily translate to reduced aggression or improved dating outcomes.

Effects on testosterone and aggression:
Some people believe that ejaculation reduces testosterone levels and aggression. However, scientific evidence supporting this claim is lacking. The relationship between testosterone, sexual activity, and aggression is complex and not fully understood.

Problematic masturbation and mental health:
A large study on masturbation habits found that the frequency of masturbation alone does not determine mental well-being. Instead, individuals' perceptions of their masturbation habits and the alignment between actual and desired frequencies play crucial roles in psychological outcomes.

Dating aggression and behavior:
Research on dating aggression has focused more on communication behaviors and conflict resolution rather than sexual arousal or masturbation habits. These studies highlight the importance of positive communication skills and problem-solving behaviors in reducing aggression in dating relationships.

Sexual frustration and aggression:
Some theories propose a link between sexual frustration and aggression or crime. However, these theories are complex and do not necessarily support the idea that masturbation before dates would reduce aggression or improve dating outcomes.

It's important to note that dating outcomes are influenced by a wide range of factors, including communication skills, emotional intelligence, and mutual interests. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that masturbating before dates will directly lead to better dating outcomes or reduced sexual aggression.

In conclusion, while sexual arousal and behavior can influence decision-making and interpersonal dynamics, there is no strong scientific basis to support the claim that masturbating before dates will lead to better dating outcomes due to reduced sexual aggression. More research would be needed to explore this specific question and its potential implications for dating behavior."
 

FlexpertHamilton

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^ Sounds like a bunch of sociology feminist babble and heresay. Are any of these studies based off neuroscience, using control groups, etc or are they just based on pontification, observation and self-reported questionnaires? The latter, and sociology in general, cannot be taken seriously.

That said I do suspect 90-100% of the benefits do probably come from quitting porn alone, and there is zero mention of porn in anything you cited above. There are high quality neuroscientific and meta-analysis; on how porn addiction desensitizes the brain (among many other things, ultimately mirroring hardcore drug abuse) that I would be happy to drop.
 
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FlexpertHamilton

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Oh I forgot to mention but I had more enjoyment talking to the other guy than I did at the mere idea of fvcking either of these women.

Have had similar experiences to that before, talking to rando dudes about business or something and getting all excited, and then realizing I have to go back to talking to vapid hoes all night.

@FlexpertHamilton doesn't sound like this girls interest level was real high. She brought her back up plan with her and played it.

This girl is a shady manipulating loser. I'd never talk to her again.
Yup. While she hadn't flaked or anything, it took repeat attempts to finally set something up. In fact I had texted her Thu night saying 'wyd this weekend' and she literally responded at 6pm on Sat saying 'meeting up with you downtown tn?' and I had to give her props for that line. Ordinarily I wouldn't have bothered but I was already in a good mood and i'm pretty go with the flow so I figured why not and suggested a place 10 min from me.

I am curious though, are you suggesting she had originally planned the double date with another guy, who flaked? Or are you suggesting her girlfriend was the backup plan?
 
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BaronOfHair

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My desire was actually just to get out of the house that night and be social...
There's a wide variety of ways to do so, outside of dating... Mixing run of the mill socializing with the pursuit of a woman leaves you with a muddled, incoherent mission. A large percent of successfully bedding women is deftly identifying ones who are susceptible to a man's influence
 

SW15

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porn addiction desensitizes the brain (among many other things, ultimately mirroring hardcore drug abuse) that I would be happy to drop.
There is that whole website Your Brain on Porn.

My quality of life has gotten better with the no porn, no masturbation practice.
 

The Duke

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Oh I forgot to mention but I had more enjoyment talking to the other guy than I did at the mere idea of fvcking either of these women.

Have had similar experiences to that before, talking to rando dudes about business or something and getting all excited, and then realizing I have to go back to talking to vapid hoes all night.


Yup. While she hadn't flaked or anything, it took repeat attempts to finally set something up. In fact I had texted her Thu night saying 'wyd this weekend' and she literally responded at 6pm on Sat saying 'meeting up with you downtown tn?' and I had to give her props for that line. Ordinarily I wouldn't have bothered but I was already in a good mood and i'm pretty go with the flow so I figured why not and suggested a place 10 min from me.

I am curious though, are you suggesting she had originally planned the double date with another guy, who flaked? Or are you suggesting her girlfriend was the backup plan?
We can analyze this stuff to death. It really doesn't matter. Most likely her girlfriend was her backup plan. Thats a pretty standard play from the shady hoe handbook.

When we give women opportunities like this it decreases our value and increases their value. Remember attention/validation is the what is getting traded for sex, except you didn't get any.

You should have never agreed to meet this girl, especially after it took her multiple days to reply. Her reply(Meeting up with you downtown tn) confirms what I said before that she was a classic manipulator and she uses charm to play with mens ego's. She a t!tty dancer? Never give a girl props for a reply like she used.

If you must meet up with this girl because you don't have any other options, then the only way you beat this girl at her own game is PUMP & DUMP that night. You bring your A-game and do the deed that night and never talk to her again. Then you pray you don't catch anything off these wh0res or knock one up.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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There is that whole website Your Brain on Porn.

My quality of life has gotten better with the no porn, no masturbation practice.
Sadly, the owner of that site who created that whole anti-porn movement, Gary Wilson, died recently (RIP). But honestly if you send anyone to that website I cannot understand how any thinking person couldn't at least be open to what he suggests. Every single claim he makes is based off of high quality neurological studies. "Big Porn" industry is massive and it amazes me in 2024 people still don't understand it. Though it does irritate me how the nofap/SR crowd conflate all this and ruin the credibility. I'm not entirely convinced "SR" is doing a whole lot...it's all porn.


We can analyze this stuff to death. It really doesn't matter. Most likely her girlfriend was her backup plan. Thats a pretty standard play from the shady hoe handbook.

When we give women opportunities like this it decreases our value and increases their value. Remember attention/validation is the what is getting traded for sex, except you didn't get any.

You should have never agreed to meet this girl, especially after it took her multiple days to reply. Her reply(Meeting up with you downtown tn) confirms what I said before that she was a classic manipulator and she uses charm to play with mens ego's. She a t!tty dancer? Never give a girl props for a reply like she used.

If you must meet up with this girl because you don't have any other options, then the only way you beat this girl at her own game is PUMP & DUMP that night. You bring your A-game and do the deed that night and never talk to her again. Then you pray you don't catch anything off these wh0res or knock one up.
In addition to that desire for socializing, honestly the only reason I want to smash her was for ego/bragging rights and that's very often the case rather than a genuine desire. So I gotta be careful about that. It's easy to think I'm not going to get played but emotions and ego can blindside me for sure.

Luckily I do catch myself pretty quickly when someone starts manipulating me but it's usually post-hoc, I need to develop the instinct to see it immediately. Normally I rely on gut feelings but sometimes I just don't have them.

Are there any specific books you've read on this subject (not some dating guru nonsense but high level stuff) or is it just general experience? After encountering a BPD/NPD girl last year, i've been doing more of a dive on spotting these types of people but a lot of it is sociological/ feminist psychology mumbo jumbo.
 
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The Duke

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Sadly, the owner of that site who created that whole anti-porn movement, Gary Wilson, died recently (RIP). But honestly if you send anyone to that website I cannot understand how any thinking person couldn't at least be open to what he suggests. Every single claim he makes is based off of high quality neurological studies. "Big Porn" industry is massive and it amazes me in 2024 people still don't understand it. Though it does irritate me how the nofap/SR crowd conflate all this and ruin the credibility. I'm not entirely convinced "SR" is doing a whole lot...it's all porn.



In addition to that desire for socializing, honestly the only reason I want to smash her was for ego/bragging rights and that's very often the case rather than a genuine desire. So I gotta be careful about that. It's easy to think I'm not going to get played but emotions and ego can blindside me for sure.

Luckily I do catch myself pretty quickly when someone starts manipulating me but it's usually post-hoc, I need to develop the instinct to see it immediately. Normally I rely on gut feelings but sometimes I just don't have them.

Are there any specific books you've read on this subject (not some dating guru nonsense but high level stuff) or is it just general experience? After encountering a BPD/NPD girl last year, i've been doing more of a dive on spotting these types of people but a lot of it is sociological/ feminist psychology mumbo jumbo.
I rarely listen to any dating guru's, but I think Rich Cooper has some decent thoughts. Experience is the best teacher, and it sounds like you learned from this one. I've been in your shoes before, thats why I can spot this stuff so well. lol.
 

Solomon

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Not writing this for feedback or anything, but I genuinely thought this was one of the more interesting dates I've ever been on, so here's a long story.

Met this girl on a dating app and we talked for a few weeks sporadically until finally setting something up.

We met at a really nice "lounge" style bar that has 3 floors in a very popular part of town (at my suggestion). When I initially arrived at the bar, I walk in and a female bartender calls my name and tells me my date is by her. My date was apparently friends with the bartender. Btw, she had arrived via an uber and I teased her about it - she says she had already been drinking earlier with her friends, but always takes ubers when she goes out anyway.

Before going into the details, for some quick context it's worth mentioning I was on my A-game, truly, never felt better. Confident, relaxed, decisive, sociable, observant, calibrated, yet also uncaring, almost in a flow state, never once questioned myself on what I should do next or thinking some pvssy **** like "does she like me??" - genuinely did not have any thoughts like that the entire night.

So, onto the girl. She's smokin hot. Easily an 8, but most guys would probably say a 9+ I may include pics if anyone really wants to know. Redhead, gorgeous face and thickkkkk just like I like em. Dressed like an absolute hoe, skimpy top, high heels, and a miniskirt thing that was so tight and thin that you could see the full outline of her thong from behind without even trying.

Anyway, at first I'm just chatting with her and the bartender in a cozy lounge area outside. Starts off slow and typical. But within 15 minutes, another one of her girlfriends just happens to show up with some dude and sit with us. I later determined this was probably preplanned, but she seemed to imply it was spontaneous. I actually couldn't tell if the two were on a date at first, but at some point it became clear to me it was effectively a double date. The other girl was also smokin hot: asian, pretty face, also dressed like a complete hoe, walking up the stairs I could basically see her ass sticking out of a skirt that was effectively a loincloth.

Weird thing happens though. Around the halfway mark, my date has to go to the bathroom, and of course her friend goes with her. They're gone for several minutes, easily close to ten, and you know exactly why. I talk to the guy, seems very chill, we talk about our work and lifestyles and goals, ending with a discussion about visiting Bali/Thailand and getting a work visa, due to the insanely low cost of living. The girls come back from the bathroom and say "were you talking **** about us?" jokingly. Nice projection there. Nah bitches, we did not talk about you for one second - we talked about more important things - don't you know men talk about ideas, not people? We're not like you, that's why men run the world.

But I digress. Upon them returning from the bathroom, my date seemed a bit "off" - she was just slightly less engaged but not in a particularly obvious way. And, worth mentioning that at around that midway point in the night, her friend had asked her "what time do you need to get home to take care of your dog?", which obviously has some implications. Anyway, in spite of all this, the other girl seemed even more receptive to me, and so I chose to talk to her and the guy as my date was looking kind of and withdrawn. But eventually I start teasing/flirting with my date again and we make more physical contact and things seem to be turning around. And later on, the bartender chick starts talking about the some kind of crazy vibrating suction cup toy that she introduced to them, and all 3 women start taking about how it makes their pussies sore, and then talk about porn - a very "sex positive" attitude that was a bit wild. After that whole discussion, the bartender gives them a weed pen to hit and both girls start coughing up a storm and say they're high AF. I make a joke that she's a bad influence on them.

Her friend then ask us (but really, my date) repeatedly if we all want to go upstairs to the rooftop and my date finally agrees. We go up and get a table and eventually have a moment where each respective pair has a 1-1 interaction, albeit briefly. I am sitting very close to my date and continuing physical contact, felt like I could have easily kissed her though I didn't and we all ended up leaving shortly. My date was complaining her vape pen was out of battery and wanted to go to a gas station to buy a new one (can't make this **** up). They're discussing whether to walk or drive and whatnot and I'm thinking it's a trivial detail. Well, apparently not. Upon getting outside, my date basically says something like "oh well we're this way, you have your own ride so you don't need to come with us" and then immediately follow it up by saying "nice meeting you". Don't remember which one said goodbye first, but it was very heavily implied that the night was over, or at least for me. Definitely was not a situation where saying "nah ill come with you" would end well, I could tell in my gut, it was palpable, I know when to throw in the towel. Harsh, but I had no reaction and just said "okay, nice meeting you all" and left.

I was actually a bit stunned because this seemed to come out of nowhere. I told this to my friend and his theory is that these girls where obviously complete hoes and were actually hoping for a tag team/foursome situation, but either one or both of them decided it wasn't happening. Not to sound arrogant, but it is possible that the asian girl didn't think it was on with her date (like I said, I couldn't actually even tell if they were on a date or "friends" which may say a lot), and so felt letdown that it wasn't happening , but this doesn't entirely add up because my date could have easily made the decision on her own to just go home with me. But my friend suggested that since women cannot think for themselves, this entire plan of theirs was devised together and were not capable of independant thought required to decide for themselves what they would do if their plan doesn't work. This could be true, or could be there was simply something I did wrong that I'm not seeing - for instance, it's possible I should have declined the offer to go upstairs and pull my date away and do something on our own, but that idea didn't even occur to me, which tells me it wasn't the move. Either way , I think I did as good as I could have ever expected myself to and I really can't recall a time I was more confident, sharp, and sociable on a date than I was tonight. Maybe I could have physically escalated more, but I'll use the excuse that being on a double date made it a bit weird when the other 2 weren't even flirting let alone physically touching. Anyway, I won't pretend it wasn't disappointed at the end, but ultimately I just see it as a unique experience.
First OP great write up, this was very well-detailed, loved how you described the girl you should shoot me a picture of her, I'm a sucker for thick white girls with big butts lol

I think this was a setup as a backup plan, anytime a woman "randomly" bumps into a friend like you described in a venue where they are well known it's obvious. It's obvious because like @Barrister mentioned if this was a coincidence they would have said hi talked for a bit and left but the fact that they stayed let's me know this was all preplanned. I don't think this was a play for a 4some. I think the girl wasn't feeling you like that and her friend came to "save her" it sucks cause you got the raw end of the deal. Personally, I think you should not contact her again but even if you do I highly doubt she is interested

I could be wrong but than again I've never been in a situation like this, the only situation I can remember was nearly 20 years ago. I went on a mall date, and it was a redhead coincidentally who brought her fat friend with her, I knew it was a setup than, luckily I never experienced that again.

Great story ,
p.s. did you or her or select the venue? if you did cool, if she did that's a huge mistake, never let a woman dictate the venue because then they can pull crap like this
 
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Solomon

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Yup. While she hadn't flaked or anything, it took repeat attempts to finally set something up. In fact I had texted her Thu night saying 'wyd this weekend' and she literally responded at 6pm on Sat saying 'meeting up with you downtown tn?' and I had to give her props for that line. Ordinarily I wouldn't have bothered but I was already in a good mood and i'm pretty go with the flow so I figured why not and suggested a place 10 min from me.

I am curious though, are you suggesting she had originally planned the double date with another guy, who flaked? Or are you suggesting her girlfriend was the backup plan?
Not to harp on OP, I think you played the whole situation right except for here, personally, I would have told her I had plans but she could meet me at my place after

This may sound bold and out of line but if I text a woman and it takes her 2 days to text back especially after I tried multiple times to get her out I would think she had low IL, I'm not going to reward her with a date, if she wants to see me she could come to my place if she refuses. Then I may schedule something public whether I feel like it or not

This is the main crux of the situation shorty was never that interested to begin with, not OP's fault that he got ambushed but she should not have been "Rewarded" with a date
 

Barrister

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She contacted me the next day and we've been chatting. Don't really care if I see her again but if I do I will definitely bring that **** up if we do. In fact I almost want to fvck her more now so I can use the post-sex vulnerability to really drill her about this shvt and understand it so it won't happen again.
Frankly, I wouldn't waste your time with this woman any further. I think I would basically give her a sort of "ultimatum" type offer of meeting me out for a drink very close to your pad on X date (you choose the place, time, date). If she fudges at all on that I would just next her and move on. Life is too short and you have too much to offer to waste time on time wasters like this woman who just wants as many male orbiters as she can get. Don't be that guy.
 

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Frankly, I wouldn't waste your time with this woman any further. I think I would basically give her a sort of "ultimatum" type offer of meeting me out for a drink very close to your pad on X date (you choose the place, time, date). If she fudges at all on that I would just next her and move on. Life is too short and you have too much to offer to waste time on time wasters like this woman who just wants as many male orbiters as she can get. Don't be that guy.
I highly doubt he will see her again, this was a one and done especially after this....

Well, apparently not. Upon getting outside, my date basically says something like "oh well we're this way, you have your own ride so you don't need to come with us" and then immediately follow it up by saying "nice meeting you".
^^^she basically told OP in a polite or indiect way, to EFF OFF if she was interested she would have been fine with OP tagging along, and joining them

I'm not sure why you guys insist on chasing after low-interest chicks, this is a no-brainer IMO and quite frankly if i was OP i would be salty not because I didn't smash but how this whole situation played out, he was ambushed and set up for failure. A woman who is interested wouldn't pull a stunt like this. It's a dealbreaker and should be for most men as well
 

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There is that whole website Your Brain on Porn.

My quality of life has gotten better with the no porn, no masturbation practice.

Not masturbating makes everything more interesting. after 5-6 days my voice gets deeper and I just get a dopamine rush of “I don’t give a fvck” in a civil mature way. Hold eye contact until they don’t.
I try not to fap.

I would rather stare at a cute girl's ass at a supermarket or at the park while running than to fap. The high lasts longer. It is more fun and natural.
 
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FlexpertHamilton

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First OP great write up, this was very well-detailed, loved how you described the girl you should shoot me a picture of her, I'm a sucker for thick white girls with big butts lol

I think this was a setup as a backup plan, anytime a woman "randomly" bumps into a friend like you described in a venue where they are well known it's obvious. It's obvious because like @Barrister mentioned if this was a coincidence they would have said hi talked for a bit and left but the fact that they stayed let's me know this was all preplanned. I don't think this was a play for a 4some. I think the girl wasn't feeling you like that and her friend came to "save her" it sucks cause you got the raw end of the deal. Personally, I think you should not contact her again but even if you do I highly doubt she is interested

I could be wrong but than again I've never been in a situation like this, the only situation I can remember was nearly 20 years ago. I went on a mall date, and it was a redhead coincidentally who brought her fat friend with her, I knew it was a setup than, luckily I never experienced that again.

Great story ,
p.s. did you or her or select the venue? if you did cool, if she did that's a huge mistake, never let a woman dictate the venue because then they can pull crap like this
Thanks, and I did select the venue, yeah

And yea if i do try anything i'll just say lets fvck and if she says no ill stop talking to her
 

Giovanni SouthSide

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If she does reach out invite her straight to your place. And it would be a take it or leave it.

Even if this chick was legitimate who cares? It is better to lose a girl who seems great than to risk being stuck with a rotten one.
 

Solomon

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Another thing OP mentioned which was a flag to me was weed smoking I know I know this has been normalized and now a lot of women smoke weed. However from having gone on dates with girls who don't smoke, to girls who smoke sometimes, and girls who smoke all the time. Women who smoke weed every day tend to be morally loose, some tend to do harder drugs, some make weed their idenity or life. I'm not talking about the girls who do it once in awhile I'm talking about girls who do it everyday like when they wake up and when they go to bed and those who get the drugs for free, well it ain't free lol
 

FlexpertHamilton

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If she does reach out invite her straight to your place. And it would be a take it or leave it.

Even if this chick was legitimate who cares? It is better to lose a girl who seems great than to risk being stuck with a rotten one.
im a sucker for thick girls and redheads and at some point id probably forsake my pride just to smash if they're hot enough to get the clout and bragging rights.

I'll upload pics, these expire in a week


Another thing OP mentioned which was a flag to me was weed smoking I know I know this has been normalized and now a lot of women smoke weed. However from having gone on dates with girls who don't smoke, to girls who smoke sometimes, and girls who smoke all the time. Women who smoke weed every day tend to be morally loose, some tend to do harder drugs, some make weed their idenity or life. I'm not talking about the girls who do it once in awhile I'm talking about girls who do it everyday like when they wake up and when they go to bed and those who get the drugs for free, well it ain't free lol
yeah she was also smoking a nicotine vape. I offered her some mini lozenge mints i had and she looked at me like they were meth. women are so fvcking dumb
 
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