Guess what? Money doesn't matter.

[SW15]

If you think money is what gets women and you actually get money, you'll end up being a beta ATM which she withdraws money from and gives you boring, perfunctory sex at most. Then she'll get actual romance and sex on the side when you aren't looking, and the guy will likely be some broke musician or barista.

Here's the thing: all of incels in San Francisco and Silicon Valley are making a lot of money, 6 figures minimum. A decent number are making around 700k a year. They aren't getting sex, the tattooed line cook who serves them food is. Even the drug addicts on the streets are doing better.

Why? Because women are attracted to your identity & your vibe, not your cash. Money only correlates with things women are attracted to, such as competence, status, and independence.

The Tech Bro can either settle with a woman to his liking or keep playing the field because he has a decent job that makes up for his age.

Game is a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. For men, looks are #1 by a large margin up until their mid 30s. After a man reaches his mid 30s, looks are still important and usually #1 but by a smaller margin. Other factors (including money) start to play a bigger role after a man reaches 35 in his overall SMV.

If money is all that a man has going for him in his SMV, then the beta ATM classification above is true. A well known example of this is Bill Gates during the 1980s-2000s. His money and Microsoft CEO status enable him to attract and retain a mediocre looking Microsoft employee who was a feminist/careerist with an MBA from an elite program (Duke University).

Tech company STEM employees are an interesting case study. Most of these STEM workers employed at tech companies make good money. Money is all that they have going for them. Their looks are often mediocre to subpar and they don't have top executive status. Middle manager/team lead/Director status isn't that meaningful. Personalities aren't great. Not all of these STEM guys are incel as some are quasi incel. These 'quasi incel' men aren't getting laid through conventional dating but they are getting laid because they are paying directly for sex. They're not celibate because they are having some sex.

Men with McJobs or blue collar workers often have better looks and personalities than the STEM worker guys who are going to be incel or borderline incel. The McJob or blue collar worker is better positioned to get laid and have extended relationships through conventional dating. A lot of STEM workers will be able to use their money to have sex with hotter paid women (including sugar type arrangements) as compared to a middle aged line cook getting with some mediocre to subpar middle aged woman.

In any event, money matters depending on the AGE of the women. A 22 year old girl isn't going to care about money, she has sex appeal and is going to care about a man's height and hair and body A 42 year old woman with 2 kids is going to care about money, she has 0 sex appeal is going to care about a man's bank balance.

Everything depends on a woman's youth.

This is generally accurate but too narrow of a viewpoint.

The 22 year old woman isn't going to care about money when she's mostly evaluating close to her own age. When she's dealing other other 20 something men, looks factors will matter far more than money. When a man in his 30s/40s wants to attract, seduce, and retain an early to mid 20s woman for an extended period of time, money will matter. A 37 year old man is going to need money + looks for a 22 year old girlfriend. The 22 year old woman can get looks alone from 22-27 year old men, but she can't get money from them. That's where money makes a difference.

A 42 year old woman with 2 kids needs a beta provider. She's also only dealing with men 42-55 in most cases. Even a childless 42 year old woman is likely to consider money more.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Men with McJobs or blue collar workers often have better looks and personalities than the STEM worker guys who are going to be incel or borderline incel. The McJob or blue collar worker is better positioned to get laid and have extended relationships through conventional dating. A lot of STEM workers will be able to use their money to have sex with hotter paid women (including sugar type arrangements) as compared to a middle aged line cook getting with some mediocre to subpar middle aged woman.

Functional lower skilled/lower socioeconomic workers are going to have better social skills and charisma because they are forced to have them to survive in their environment. Richer people interact with fewer people due to their jobs and money. The caveat is that McJob and Blue Collar works peak much earlier in their twenties due to their environments while the Techbro/Stem has the most potential if he just acquires some basic social IQ and takes care of himself.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Money counts for retention. Money is indirectly part of your SMV, as it often correlates with social status. Social status is a primary trait that gets you in the door.

 

[zekko]

A successful man is an attractive man, so there is that.
Never understood this idea of making money just to get women, because IMO you should make money to improve your life, for your benefit. It gives you more options, a better standard of living, and improves almost every aspect of your life. Whether or not women enter into it shouldn't really matter.

 

[Murk]

I smashed better chicks when I was broke, but I'm happier now. I can attract those same girls 10 years later so it all works out.

 

[BeExcellent]

All this black and white thinking is nonsense. Only amateurs think like this.

And some of y'all wonder why you are single. Binary thinking and mindset simply does not compute in the dating world where emotional calibration and soft skills win the day.

Of course money matters, don't be ridiculous. Want to go to coffee, lunch, dinner, a movie, a concert, bowling, skiing, out to a club, etc. etc. etc.?

It costs money. Want to have a car or house or rental unit to live in? It costs money. So yeah. It's important. Let's not dismiss that.

The other thing is how income level relative to your partner affects your relationship dynamic.

When my first husband was a business owner making money? He had much better frame than after his partner did him dirty and he became a house spouse. I was making bank and calling the shots financially from then on. That is NOT where any man wants to find himself.

As a man it's best to out earn your woman. If you both earn around the same, that can work with good frame, if she out earns you but you make enough to have autonomy and could maintain your lifestyle without her you retain functional independence (this is where I fall with my current husband), and therefore your frame, although her financial independence may bug you at times (you don't get to dictate decisions surrounding money), but you never want to be so far behind her in earnings that she doesn't respect you or listen to you or take you seriously.

So yeah. Money is important in my view much more from the indirect affect it has on the dynamic of the interaction or relationship. Were I ever again to be on the dating market I'd only entertain men who straight up out earn me. Why? Because to out earn me they would have to be quite successful and have the associated skill sets and soft skills to have become successful. They'd have success mindsets. Otherwise I'd be happy by myself and enjoy life with my own peace.

The mindset difference is an issue when the woman out earns the man. To a greater or lesser degree but it is certainly there.

I'd never be a sugar mama to a guy not in the same ballpark as me financially. Yuck. That's how you get used. No thank you.

So money matters more in my mind for those reasons.

 

[RickTheToad]

Money matters dudes. As we go into a recession and the price of living continues to rise, trust when I say, money matters. A wife of a friend of mine got a high-paying job a couple of years ago; he's a clothing salesperson. So, they (she) were looking for a new place to live. Lifelong renters now wanting to purchase a home. She was in the drivers seat; no question about that. However, the income they each own is vast. She earned around 180k, he earned around half that. Again, she was recently promoted. Anyway, they were looking at the homes in Stamford, and everything is damn expensive. They placed an offer on a place but got cold feet and somehow got out of the offer and received their entire deposit back even though they signed a contract.

Fast forward to last month.. She was fired from her firm and they are moving out of the area because they cannot live on his salary alone in Stamford.

Trust when I say, money matters. Once more and more of these women with communications and human resources degrees are let go, you'd see how things flip back to where they once were.

 

[RickTheToad]

And some of y'all wonder why you are single. Binary thinking and mindset simply does not compute in the dating world where emotional calibration and soft skills win the day.

Of course money matters, don't be ridiculous. Want to go to coffee, lunch, dinner, a movie, a concert, bowling, skiing, out to a club, etc. etc. etc.?

It costs money. Want to have a car or house or rental unit to live in? It costs money. So yeah. It's important. Let's not dismiss that.

The other thing is how income level relative to your partner affects your relationship dynamic.

When my first husband was a business owner making money? He had much better frame than after his partner did him dirty and he became a house spouse. I was making bank and calling the shots financially from then on. That is NOT where any man wants to find himself.

As a man it's best to out earn your woman. If you both earn around the same, that can work with good frame, if she out earns you but you make enough to have autonomy and could maintain your lifestyle without her you retain functional independence (this is where I fall with my current husband), and therefore your frame, although her financial independence may bug you at times (you don't get to dictate decisions surrounding money), but you never want to be so far behind her in earnings that she doesn't respect you or listen to you or take you seriously.

So yeah. Money is important in my view much more from the indirect affect it has on the dynamic of the interaction or relationship. Were I ever again to be on the dating market I'd only entertain men who straight up out earn me. Why? Because to out earn me they would have to be quite successful and have the associated skill sets and soft skills to have become successful. They'd have success mindsets. Otherwise I'd be happy by myself and enjoy life with my own peace.

The mindset difference is an issue when the woman out earns the man. To a greater or lesser degree but it is certainly there.

I'd never be a sugar mama to a guy not in the same ballpark as me financially. Yuck. That's how you get used. No thank you.

So money matters more in my mind for those reasons.

Did you leave your husband because he became a house spouse?

Technically, the GF earns more than me. 125k vs 146k. However, my rentals earn another 300k plus a year. So, there you go.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Fast forward to last month.. She was fired from her firm and they are moving out of the area because they cannot live on his salary alone in Stamford.

Trust when I say, money matters. Once more and more of these women with communications and human resources degrees are let go, you'd see how things flip back to where they once were.

Women are the puppets for corporate america. They will base their whole identity to climb the corporate ladder and be devastated when all it takes is a Yes and signature to eradicate all of that.

 

[Captain Rizz]

And how do you know this?

I used to live there.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I used to live there.

In the City itself or Fremont/Milpitas. What years?

 

[Captain Rizz]

In the City itself or Fremont/Milpitas. What years?

I lived all over the bay: San Jose, SF, and Oakland. 2010s.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

As a man it's best to out earn your woman.

What she earns is mine, what I give her is hers. - Amsterdam Pimp

I'd never be a sugar mama to a guy not in the same ballpark as me financially. Yuck. That's how you get used. No thank you.

You'd be my sugar baby in a heartbeat though.

 

[Vladimir Dal]

It does correlate with lifestyle, though. Besides, saying that it doesn't matter is highly dysfunctional. Money may not be the most important factor, but it sure does give you freedom. No sane empty walleted man will be able to take a nonchalant, calm, approach to life.
You said it yourself: money correlates with things women are attracted to.
Certainly, having a life that revolves on attaining money over all things is ridiculous, but to disregard it is also ridiculous.

 

[Captain Rizz]

You'd be my sugar baby in a heartbeat though.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I lived all over the bay: San Jose, SF, and Oakland. 2010s.

Cool! How long total? That's a lot of places to have been domiciled.

 

[BeExcellent]

Did you leave your husband because he became a house spouse?

Technically, the GF earns more than me. 125k vs 146k. However, my rentals earn another 300k plus a year. So, there you go.

No. I left him because after we were married & he lost his buisness he was depressed, lazy, developed a serious drinking problem (as a result of the depression I'm sure) and failed to be a responsible adult at all. I became his enabler and I did not think the domestic situation was setting a good example for my kids. I told my first husband what needed to be addressed and did not leave until 5 years later. He made no efforts to improve/heal/grow/change. So I kept my word & left him.

Best decision ever.

 

[Captain Rizz]

Cool! How long total? That's a lot of places to have been domiciled.

8 years

 

[Dash Riprock]

There's an aweful lot of bums and drug dealers with harems of women.

Just saying.

Maybe. But these are likely very low quality women most successful men wouldn't want anything to do with. The drug dealer lifestyle might be attractive to hood rats and VERY immature women, and that's it. Most quality women want a guy who has his s*it together and has some goals and a career which usually equates to doing well financially.

All this talk about women fawning over broke baristas, bums, and bartenders is sad and largely not true with quality women.

How many guys on this site actually want to date a woman who's attracted to that kind of man?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

How many guys on this site actually want to date a woman who's attracted to that kind of man?

Jus' because you don' wannabe a pimp don't mean nuthin'