Most commonly asked newbie questions answered right here!

[JUJU MAN]

dear mr reeves thank you for bringing structure to my torn and twisted male philosophy im learningg by the letter it makes me sad and happy because i can releate to these expierences one at a time this OG material. it 2010 and im barely catching on but betterr late than never.

 

[krs]

What do I do if she plays "hard to get"?

When a woman plays "hard to get", it is a test. Probably the most common of all tests. She's testing you to see if it will affect you. If you let her playing "hard to get" have an obvious effect on you, you will fail her test. However, if you act as if nothing is going on and continue treating her like you normally do and eventually STOP THE TEST BY MAKING A MOVE, then you will pass.

Women play "hard to get" to test your persistance. If you are not persistant, you will fail. If you are too clingy, you will fail. Showing dissapointment to her test will result in failure, because you are letting such a test AFFECT you. Therefore, you treat her as if you normally would treat her when she plays "hard to get" and stop her test by making a move. If you call her once a week and she's not returning your calls, DON'T BRING IT UP, AND JUST MAKE A MOVE ALREADY. She's trying to see if you'll easily give up. She's sick of trying to figure out if you like her not and is wanting you to make a move. However, don't call anymore than you normally do just because she's not returning your calls. Keep doing what your doing and acting normal and MAKE A MOVE. When she starts playing hard to get, she's bored with the relationship as it stands and usually wants MORE, so give MAKE A MOVE.


What's the difference between persistance and clingyness?

Persistance is a good thing, clingyness is not.

Persistant men MAKE MOVES. Clingy men do NOT.

CLINGYNESS/NEEDYNESS is the pursuit of a girl even when there is no chance that the two of you will ever be together. She may have a boyfriend, or she may have suggested to you that she does not want you to pursue her anymore. Clingyness/needyness is also fueled from insecurity. A clingy guy may get jealous or upset that she has not returned his calls. He may get upset or jealous when she shows another guy attention and not him at the time. It is very common for clingy guys to have been LJBF'd before, and the girl they are clinging on KNOWS that she is being pursued far too much.


PERSISTANCE is the pursuit of a girl when you DO have a chance with her, and you have not gotten any suggestion from her not to pursue her any longer. Persistance is NOT fueled by insecurity. Persistance is fueled by the desire to spend time with her. A persistant man will not get jealous or upset when she has not returned his calls. A persistant man will just keep trying and not worry or focus on the failures. If he wants to spend time with her, he will do it. AS SOON AS SHE SUGGESTS TO HIM THAT SHE DOES NOT WANT TO BE WITH HIM, HE WILL MOVE ON. A persistant man will not get upset with her if she pays attention to other guys at the time, because the persistant man doesn't care about what she's doing with other guys, he likes spending time with HER, so what she does with other guys is HER business.


When should I call a girl when I first met her?

Wait 2-4 days after you get her number.

If you get her email and you want to email her, email her the next day.

(Note: Do not email or call a girl the same day you get her number and/or email.)


Should I open doors for her, pull her chair out, etc. on a date or hanging out?

Yes.


Should I compliment her?

Compliments lose their power each and every time you give one. So use them very sparingly (like once every 2 or 3 dates) and don't always compliment her on obvious things that she hears compliments on all the time (i.e. her beauty).


How do I flirt?

Most guys make it much more difficult to do this than it has to be because of the mindset that they go into a date with. Most guys make it much harder because they go in trying not to upset her that they forget to have fun. Most guys concentrate way too much on trying to get her to like him instead of having fun with her. They think being nice and cordial is going to make her fall for him and this is just not true. A good way to concentrate on having fun on a date is to get her talking and look for any oppurtunity you can in her communication to have fun with what she just said. For instance:


Me: So what do you do?

Her: Oh, I'm a waitress at Hooters.

Me: Lol. Hooters!? Dang girl, you better get me a free plate over there or something! Heh!


Another example:

Me: So where are you from?

Her: I'm from Los Angeles.

Me: You go up there to meet celebrities or something? Heh.


And you know what? It may be a bit corny at times, but it's BETTER THAN NOTHING. It's better than just, "Oh, that's cool".


How do I get a girl's phone number?

(As you're about to leave) "You know what, I'd really like to call you. Something about you kinda like." (while pulling out your pen and pad and handing it to her).


What if she resists my physical advance (i.e. hugging, kissing, hand holding)?

When she resists your physical advance, do not act as if it bothered you. Just move on to another topic and forget that it ever even happened. If she says anything about it after she pulls away, just say "don't worry about it, you're doing fine" and move on to another topic. Try again later one more time. If she resists again, NEXT her.


When should I make a physical advance?

When she's on a high (the part where she seems to be enjoying you the most.) It is best to make ALL of your moves when she's on a high.


How do I get a girl dig me?

Refer to everything else above.


Welp, I think that's all of them. Questions and comments are welcome!

Later guys!

I can't do this.

 

[nismo-4]

More help from my courtroom files!

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=191182

And its sequel!

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=192273

69 common ass cases and my first deck of cards! God damn! :yes:

 

[krs]

its unfair that im a 38 year old virgin. im a nice guy and i deserve the females. craig reeves deserves to be a virgin. he gives dumb advice. craig reeves sucks.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

One of the properties of "problem solving" is, that you sometimes don't have to understand a problem, in order to solve the problem.
That's why it's better to NEXT someone without thinking it over.
Some mysteries can never be solved, even if you have unlimited amounts of time to think about it.

no kidding

 

[Siene]

What do I do if she plays "hard to get"?

When a woman plays "hard to get", it is a test. Probably the most common of all tests. She's testing you to see if it will affect you. If you let her playing "hard to get" have an obvious effect on you, you will fail her test. However, if you act as if nothing is going on and continue treating her like you normally do and eventually STOP THE TEST BY MAKING A MOVE, then you will pass.

Women play "hard to get" to test your persistance. If you are not persistant, you will fail. If you are too clingy, you will fail. Showing dissapointment to her test will result in failure, because you are letting such a test AFFECT you. Therefore, you treat her as if you normally would treat her when she plays "hard to get" and stop her test by making a move. If you call her once a week and she's not returning your calls, DON'T BRING IT UP, AND JUST MAKE A MOVE ALREADY. She's trying to see if you'll easily give up. She's sick of trying to figure out if you like her not and is wanting you to make a move. However, don't call anymore than you normally do just because she's not returning your calls. Keep doing what your doing and acting normal and MAKE A MOVE. When she starts playing hard to get, she's bored with the relationship as it stands and usually wants MORE, so give MAKE A MOVE.


What's the difference between persistance and clingyness?

Persistance is a good thing, clingyness is not.

Persistant men MAKE MOVES. Clingy men do NOT.

CLINGYNESS/NEEDYNESS is the pursuit of a girl even when there is no chance that the two of you will ever be together. She may have a boyfriend, or she may have suggested to you that she does not want you to pursue her anymore. Clingyness/needyness is also fueled from insecurity. A clingy guy may get jealous or upset that she has not returned his calls. He may get upset or jealous when she shows another guy attention and not him at the time. It is very common for clingy guys to have been LJBF'd before, and the girl they are clinging on KNOWS that she is being pursued far too much.


PERSISTANCE is the pursuit of a girl when you DO have a chance with her, and you have not gotten any suggestion from her not to pursue her any longer. Persistance is NOT fueled by insecurity. Persistance is fueled by the desire to spend time with her. A persistant man will not get jealous or upset when she has not returned his calls. A persistant man will just keep trying and not worry or focus on the failures. If he wants to spend time with her, he will do it. AS SOON AS SHE SUGGESTS TO HIM THAT SHE DOES NOT WANT TO BE WITH HIM, HE WILL MOVE ON. A persistant man will not get upset with her if she pays attention to other guys at the time, because the persistant man doesn't care about what she's doing with other guys, he likes spending time with HER, so what she does with other guys is HER business.


When should I call a girl when I first met her?

Wait 2-4 days after you get her number.

If you get her email and you want to email her, email her the next day.

(Note: Do not email or call a girl the same day you get her number and/or email.)


Should I open doors for her, pull her chair out, etc. on a date or hanging out?

Yes.


Should I compliment her?

Compliments lose their power each and every time you give one. So use them very sparingly (like once every 2 or 3 dates) and don't always compliment her on obvious things that she hears compliments on all the time (i.e. her beauty).


How do I flirt?

Most guys make it much more difficult to do this than it has to be because of the mindset that they go into a date with. Most guys make it much harder because they go in trying not to upset her that they forget to have fun. Most guys concentrate way too much on trying to get her to like him instead of having fun with her. They think being nice and cordial is going to make her fall for him and this is just not true. A good way to concentrate on having fun on a date is to get her talking and look for any oppurtunity you can in her communication to have fun with what she just said. For instance:


Me: So what do you do?

Her: Oh, I'm a waitress at Hooters.

Me: Lol. Hooters!? Dang girl, you better get me a free plate over there or something! Heh!


Another example:

Me: So where are you from?

Her: I'm from Los Angeles.

Me: You go up there to meet celebrities or something? Heh.


And you know what? It may be a bit corny at times, but it's BETTER THAN NOTHING. It's better than just, "Oh, that's cool".


How do I get a girl's phone number?

(As you're about to leave) "You know what, I'd really like to call you. Something about you kinda like." (while pulling out your pen and pad and handing it to her).


What if she resists my physical advance (i.e. hugging, kissing, hand holding)?

When she resists your physical advance, do not act as if it bothered you. Just move on to another topic and forget that it ever even happened. If she says anything about it after she pulls away, just say "don't worry about it, you're doing fine" and move on to another topic. Try again later one more time. If she resists again, NEXT her.


When should I make a physical advance?

When she's on a high (the part where she seems to be enjoying you the most.) It is best to make ALL of your moves when she's on a high.


How do I get a girl dig me?

Refer to everything else above.


Welp, I think that's all of them. Questions and comments are welcome!

Later guys!

That’s very educative for someone like me

 

[SW15]

Most of that 2004 list holds up pretty well in 2024. Pen & pad for collecting phone numbers doesn't hold up well in 2024 and was even past its date in 2004. By 2004, I had my first cell phone (I turned 21 that year) and I was able to get women to enter their numbers into my more basic cell phone them.

Email is definitely not at all part of seduction anymore. Technology has moved on from email. Besides cell phone numbers, people have moved on far more to getting Instagrams and Snapchats than email.

I do remember the pen and pad era from high school and from my freshman year of college in 2001-2002 though.

Now, some of the questions from 2004 that might have been most asked wouldn't be most asked in 2024.

Female clinginess isn't much of a thing anymore. Women have had far too much abundance of prospects since smartphones, social media, and swipe apps came into effect in the late 2000s/early 2010s came around. Even in 2004, a woman on Match on Okcupid would have had her inbox with 100+ men in it. Clinginess was on its way out in 2004.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Long list, but I will comment on the things I disagree with due to being obsolete in 2024.

How can I tell if she likes me?

Girls are approaching or making it obvious to guys that they are interested due to the scarcity in high quality men these days. The vast majority of your bish made low value men are resorting to game & manipulation tactics now. My friend talks about how all of the short kings are trying to neg her or disappear for a few days to spark interest. Girls know the entire playbook now.

How do I get out of the "friend zone"?

This is pointless! Trying to escape the friend zone is an act of a low value male in a scarcity mindset. If a girl puts you in the friendzone then it was for a reason, so either accept it and utilize for your benefit or tell her to kick rocks and move on.

What do I do if she plays "hard to get"?

Again, women in 2024 aren't playing silly games with guys they have interest in. If you find a girl playing "hard to get" she is trying to disqualify you by throwing you curve balls while she is throwing the other guy soft ball pitches.

What's the difference between persistance and clingyness?

Disagree, only guys in a scarcity mindset would deal with this.

When should I call a girl when I first met her?

Disagree, thanks to OLD, social media, and etc, girls have much more options to choose from. You could be competing for first place with another guy and lose out out to her by waiting.

 

[SW15]

How do I get out of the "friend zone"?

This is pointless! Trying to escape the friend zone is an act of a low value male in a scarcity mindset. If a girl puts you in the friendzone then it was for a reason, so either accept it and utilize for your benefit or tell her to kick rocks and move on.

The best way to get out of the friend zone is never to get into it in the first place and that was also true in 2004. I am not friends with any women who I find physically attractive. Staying out of the friend zone is one of the things I've done very well over time.

If a man happens to fall into the friend zone, he needs to tell the woman to kick rocks and move on.

How can I tell if she likes me?

The only way to be able to tell how interested she is in you is to make a move (number close, date request, kiss, etc.) Watch her reaction. If the move is unsuccessful the first time, you can try again later one more time. If it's unsuccessful the second time, ditch her and move on....in other words...NEXT.

Girls are approaching or making it obvious to guys that they are interested due to the scarcity in high quality men these days. The vast majority of your bish made low value men are resorting to game & manipulation tactics now. My friend talks about how all of the short kings are trying to neg her or disappear for a few days to spark interest. Girls know the entire playbook now.

OP was mostly correct back in 2004 and it holds up in 2024. There have been some lesser significant changes with this.

Millennial women (who were just starting to come into the market in 2004) have been worse at using IOIs than predecessor generations. I finished college/moved to a new city in 2005 and I moved to a new city in 2011. I noticed that in 2011, I was seeing far fewer IOIs in public than in 2005 in the exact same situation (new guy in a city looking for women). What changed between 2005 and 2011? Smartphones and social media. Millennials were going through this and this trend has persisted into Gen Z.

Roosh was saying that the neg was dead as far back as the early 2010s. Biatches had caught on to it.

In the 2020s, females might be more inclined to make things obvious or in-person approach the highest tier men. For a normie or upper level normie, that's not happening.

When should I call a girl when I first met her?

Wait 2-4 days after you get her number.

If you get her email and you want to email her, email her the next day.

(Note: Do not email or call a girl the same day you get her number and/or email.)

thanks to OLD, social media, and etc, girls have much more options to choose from. You could be competing for first place with another guy and lose out out to her by waiting.

In the 2010s or 2020s, you're probably not going to be making a phone call to a new woman. I think it has become more important in recent years to arrange the date prior to collecting a phone number. If I were to get a woman's number on a Thursday from an in-person approach and set a date for the following Tuesday (5 days later), then collect her phone number, I wouldn't need to text her until Monday and it would be primarily related to date logistics. I like the idea of not overtexting.

If a man for some reason doesn't set a concrete date when he gets her number, I do think waiting 2-4 days to text vs. texting same day or next day looks better. A guy is best served not putting himself in that position.

Agree that women have more options to choose from now than in 2004 when OP wrote what he wrote.

What do I do if she plays "hard to get"?

When a woman plays "hard to get", it is a test. Probably the most common of all tests. She's testing you to see if it will affect you. If you let her playing "hard to get" have an obvious effect on you, you will fail her test. However, if you act as if nothing is going on and continue treating her like you normally do and eventually STOP THE TEST BY MAKING A MOVE, then you will pass.

Women play "hard to get" to test your persistance. If you are not persistant, you will fail. If you are too clingy, you will fail. Showing dissapointment to her test will result in failure, because you are letting such a test AFFECT you. Therefore, you treat her as if you normally would treat her when she plays "hard to get" and stop her test by making a move. If you call her once a week and she's not returning your calls, DON'T BRING IT UP, AND JUST MAKE A MOVE ALREADY. She's trying to see if you'll easily give up. She's sick of trying to figure out if you like her not and is wanting you to make a move. However, don't call anymore than you normally do just because she's not returning your calls. Keep doing what your doing and acting normal and MAKE A MOVE. When she starts playing hard to get, she's bored with the relationship as it stands and usually wants MORE, so give MAKE A MOVE.

women in 2024 aren't playing silly games with guys they have interest in. If you find a girl playing "hard to get" she is trying to disqualify you by throwing you curve balls while she is throwing the other guy soft ball pitches.

You have a valid point that women don't need to play hard to get in 2024. They have such abundance now that they don't need to pretend to be hard to get, many of them are actually hard to get because of how many prospects many women have lined up.

That said, OP's advice would still hold up today. It's always good to hold frame, lead the interaction, and push it forward.

 

[CornbreadFed]

The best way to get out of the friend zone is never to get into it in the first place and that was also true in 2004. I am not friends with any women who I find physically attractive. Staying out of the friend zone is one of the things I've done very well over time.

If a man happens to fall into the friend zone, he needs to tell the woman to kick rocks and move on.





OP was mostly correct back in 2004 and it holds up in 2024. There have been some lesser significant changes with this.

Millennial women (who were just starting to come into the market in 2004) have been worse at using IOIs than predecessor generations. I finished college/moved to a new city in 2005 and I moved to a new city in 2011. I noticed that in 2011, I was seeing far fewer IOIs in public than in 2005 in the exact same situation (new guy in a city looking for women). What changed between 2005 and 2011? Smartphones and social media. Millennials were going through this and this trend has persisted into Gen Z.

Roosh was saying that the neg was dead as far back as the early 2010s. Biatches had caught on to it.

In the 2020s, females might be more inclined to make things obvious or in-person approach the highest tier men. For a normie or upper level normie, that's not happening.





In the 2010s or 2020s, you're probably not going to be making a phone call to a new woman. I think it has become more important in recent years to arrange the date prior to collecting a phone number. If I were to get a woman's number on a Thursday from an in-person approach and set a date for the following Tuesday (5 days later), then collect her phone number, I wouldn't need to text her until Monday and it would be primarily related to date logistics. I like the idea of not overtexting.

If a man for some reason doesn't set a concrete date when he gets her number, I do think waiting 2-4 days to text vs. texting same day or next day looks better. A guy is best served not putting himself in that position.

Agree that women have more options to choose from now than in 2004 when OP wrote what he wrote.





You have a valid point that women don't need to play hard to get in 2024. They have such abundance now that they don't need to pretend to be hard to get, many of them are actually hard to get because of how many prospects many women have lined up.

That said, OP's advice would still hold up today. It's always good to hold frame, lead the interaction, and push it forward.

I can understand your points since you are dealing with later millennial women. I am a Zillennial, so I deal with Millennial women that act like millennials with Gen Z characteristics and Gen Z women too. Gen Z women tend to be more aggressive, cut throat, have dead personalities, and they know everything that comes from the internet like game. Ironically, I have seen more Gen Z women more interested in talking on the phone or facetiming me vs Millennial women who prefer texting.

 

[SW15]

I am a Zillennial

You were born in 1994, which is a late Millennial aka Zillennial. Late Millennials/early Gen Z have some commonality. Generational border years can be a bit messy.

I deal with Millennial women that act like millennials with Gen Z characteristics and Gen Z women too.

If you are primarily dealing with women born from 1994-2000, those are late Millennials and early Gen Z. I'm starting to deal with some 1994-2000 women.

I can understand your points since you are dealing with later millennial women.

I am an early Millennial (1983) and deal mainly with earlier to mid-Millennials (1983-1992 birth years).

Gen Z women tend to be more aggressive, cut throat, have dead personalities, and they know everything that comes from the internet like game.

Interesting observation. As I deal more and more with Gen Z, I might learn that. You are ahead of me in Gen Z interactions.

Ironically, I have seen more Gen Z women more interested in talking on the phone or facetiming me vs Millennial women who prefer texting.

Millennials that I have been dealing with over the years (1983-1992) have been way too reliant on text messages as a form of communication. I'm happy to see there's some backlash and a return to using the phone for voice communications. This has been a peeve of mine for many years. I am more phone or video chat inclined than text message inclined.