Solutions for 7 year LTR with 2 kids on the rocks - she doesn't know how she feels about me

[Giraffe123]

First time posting here so apologies if it's the wrong place/not the right topic/very long, but struggling for a solution with LTR of 7 years and 2 kids (3 & 1). Both in our early 30s.

Have recently gone through a period of change, moving house, other half moving jobs, moving out of capital city to smaller town etc. Had been preparing to propose but that's obviously down the ****ter for now. Up until this point there had barely been a single bump in the road, she was down to earth, we had good balance, no such thing as the one but she was by far and away one of the better ones I had come across.

Noticed she was a bit off prior to us moving and approached her on the issue, where she has come out and said she is having doubts about the future which has expanded to her being unsure about how she feels about me, can't say if she is/isn't in love with me at the moment. Long story short she has maintained she wants to wait a period of time (about 2-3 months when it first came to light, and now about 7 weeks) for other life obstacles to clear (selling our flat, starting a new job etc.) before she starts to think about 'us' and work out where she is. She has also said she doesn't think that it will be fine at this point, just she can't process things before then. I've tried to attack the issue but her approach to these things is to pull away which is infuriating. Whilst she says she wants to resolve this, it's difficult to believe her with her actions i.e. pulling away. Still some sex but nothing else in terms of intimacy. Worth adding that I'm as confident as can be she's not had an affair or met someone else.

Now I understand this gives me a period of time with which to get my act together, I can appreciate that the relationship has changed somewhat since it started (I was young and ****y and not really interested in her to start with), to me now being a father and in hindsight I've probably relinquished more of the 'power' than I should have. By this I mean I've been pretty easy going and let her lead on the stuff that she thinks matters, whilst putting my foot down when I think I need to. Given this news, obviously feels even more so out of control on my behalf and struggling with what I can do to bring things back under my control.

I've been trying to adhere to the basic principles and also improve on myself whilst its happening, but am also restricted in some areas:

• Back at the gym, wasn't in bad shape but obviously this takes time to show and don't think she really cares about it that much
• I'm kind of trapped at work at the moment, I have a 4 day week with a very decent salary, but moving jobs wouldn't make financial sense with childcare and other arrangements
• Trying to get back into the swing of doing things together i.e. time without the kids, dinner etc.
• Going out and making new friends, joined the local football team etc.

In all honesty I'm just out of ideas, my options are pretty grim:

• Can't just walk away because of the kids so either;
  • Carry on as if everything is fine, try and be my usual ****y/jokey self, be as good as I can with the kids, and try my best to ignore her actions and changes in the relationship, whist continuing to improve myself
  • Match her level and just keep myself to myself (whilst still doing the self-improvement)
  • Considered things like sleeping on the sofa etc. to start to force the feeling of separation in the hope it wakes her up to what she is doing.

But all of this essentially relies on her coming to her senses

I guess my questions are:

• Has anyone been here before? What worked, what didn't?
• What can I do to get the power back?
• When is it time to just call it quits?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I guess my questions are:

• Has anyone been here before? What worked, what didn't?
• What can I do to get the power back?
• When is it time to just call it quits?

Yes, I've been there before. What worked: patience and good listening, injecting adventure into the relationship. What didn't work: avoiding/ignoring red flags hoping they would go away off their own accord; getting impatient; demands/ultimatums; quarrelling; trivialising matters.

Inject adventure. You have two small children, your romantic life is totally ****ed up by the attention siphoned away by the children. Your lives become humdrum. In order to get your dominance up and your power back, you have to organise an adventure; something you and her will both enjoy but that comes as a surprise to her.
One thing that worked in several LTRs is to take dancing lessons with her. I prefer Tango / Milonga, where the man has to lead and the woman has to follow. Many men are afraid to (learn how to) dance, because you will feel like a fool as you trip over your own feet, but she will adore you for persisting and showing your vulnerability in attempting something you haven't done before.

Relationships require more time and effort than most married couples expect and it requires mutual effort to succeed. I don't know when it's time to call it quits, but young children need both their parents so I would put more effort in than her. For several reasons, but mostly you will feel better if she's the one who throws the towel in the ring, and she will feel like **** for being the first to give up on the relationship when you still wanted to work on it. Her mental state (I failed at keeping the relationship) might make it easier getting her to agree to custody and alimony settlements.

If you love her and the kids, don't throw in the towel before she does.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I hope you prove me wrong but I think this relationship is done. You could try hitting the gym and & doing other stuff to raise your SMV / LMS.

She is probably suffering Grass is greener. She want to ride the c0ck carrousel for a while before she comes crawling back.

 

[Giraffe123]

Yes, I've been there before. What worked: patience and good listening, injecting adventure into the relationship. What didn't work: avoiding/ignoring red flags hoping they would go away off their own accord; getting impatient; demands/ultimatums; quarrelling; trivialising matters.

Thanks for the response and appreciate the recommendations, what sort of red flags should I be looking out for? I guess the issue I am having at the moment is she doesn't want to do the talking or address anything at this point which is leading to my impatience!

I think if I suggested dance lessons I'd be laughed out of the room, but I get your point about an activity that we can do together and improve on as we do it. Struggling with it at this point because as I said she's sort of pulled away and forcing this stuff at the moment isn't going to go down well.

And again I get the point about not throwing in the towel, at least owe that to the kids.

I guess my last question is around affection - it's taken a real beating over the last few weeks, do I keep it up in the hope it kickstarts something or do I have to retreat on it and bide my time till she comes to me?

 

[Giraffe123]

I hope you prove me wrong but I think this relationship is done. You could try hitting the gym and & doing other stuff to raise your SMV / LMS.

She is probably suffering Grass is greener. She want to ride the c0ck carrousel for a while before she comes crawling back.

This is obviously my main concern, and in all honesty it's what my gut is telling me, but I'm not going to just accept it at this point.

Without sounding too egotistical I don't think my SMV is that low (tall, not ugly, well paid job, in reasonable shape) but that's maybe not reflected in the relationship at the moment. But I think I'm doing the right thing in that sense anyway, both to help the relationship and myself if it all goes west.

I don't think she was like this before we met, and I would be surprised if it were a conscious thing now. Obviously she's in the last few years where she is in place where she has enough SMV to 'easily' move on, but I do accept it could be something niggling. Hence why I want to try and cut it off at source.

I've made the points about how **** it would make ours and the kids lives, and she is aware of that, and I think that fear is playing into her ability to actually do anything about the situation.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Thanks for the response and appreciate the recommendations, what sort of red flags should I be looking out for?

A big one is avoiding intimacy. I'm not talking sex, but she (repeatedly) doesn't appreciate when you give her a spontaneous hug, that's bad news. One or two times could be a timing error, but if she consistently avoids physical contact the relationship is in trouble.

I guess the issue I am having at the moment is she doesn't want to do the talking or address anything at this point which is leading to my impatience!

I think your timing is not congruent with hers and that leads to frustration with both of you. I would advice you to see if you can break up the big issues in smaller issues that are easier to agree upon, so you can make her think "us", not "him and me".
An easy way out of it is to treat addressing the issue as a date. Take her to a quiet cafe/restaurant where she's away from the house and the kids(!), and talk calmly about your shared future over candlelight. And yes, that means dating your wife again.

I think if I suggested dance lessons I'd be laughed out of the room.

I didn't say you should 'suggest' dance lessons. Don't inform her at all of your plans, just take her on a date and have her dress for dancing without telling her. Then take her to the dance studio.
Believe me, no matter how anti-dance she might be, she'll be touched that you care enough to invest in your relationship with her to get you both out of your comfort zone. Like I stated above, it rekindled several LTRs.

Edited to add: make sure to be encouraging her to dance with you. Dancing is fun and sensual and if you can make a woman feel safe dancing in your arms, she will feel safe with you in other aspects as well.

And again I get the point about not throwing in the towel, at least owe that to the kids

And to yourself. Your Spitfire is in a downward spiral, but you're are pulling to get the plane aloft. No matter whether you succeed or not, you can be proud of yourself and how you handle your relationships.

 

[Serenity]

can't say if she is/isn't in love with me at the moment.

In my mind there is no such thing. If she doesn't know then she isn't in love. To me this seems like she's buying time to organize leaving you.

 

[Giraffe123]

In my mind there is no such thing. If she doesn't know then she isn't in love. To me this seems like she's buying time to organize leaving you.

Yea completely get what you mean, and that is my gut feel on this that I can't ignore.

Feel that I owe it to my kids and to our last seven years to stick it out and give her the time she's asking for, and the least I can do is try to rekindle it (without being desperate) but it's tough going.

 

[AttackFormation]

Yea completely get what you mean, and that is my gut feel on this that I can't ignore.

Feel that I owe it to my kids and to our last seven years to stick it out and give her the time she's asking for, and the least I can do is try to rekindle it (without being desperate) but it's tough going.

Fluctuations are fine, but for me, the fact that she deliberately declines to communicate with you is the bad part. Because it isnt just unproductive, it's very selfish of her. She has essentially stopped caring about your experience in the relationship and knows that due to the kids, you cant just walk away when she treats you like you dont matter. I think if you think about and realise what her actions say about her, if she stays on the same track, that you yourself will stop desiring her too.

Take my words with a grain of salt since i have no experience in relationships. And i totally understand why you feel the way you do, i think thats normal and a good sign about you. But from the outside looking in, i suspect what i said is ultimately the truth.

 

[Giraffe123]

A big one is avoiding intimacy. I'm not talking sex, but she (repeatedly) doesn't appreciate when you give her a spontaneous hug, that's bad news. One or two times could be a timing error, but if she consistently avoids physical contact the relationship is in trouble.

This is a tough one as we always had a bit of a way with this, like the whole relationship there would be times I'd give her a hug or such like and she'd pull away and give me a look like 'what are you doing' - but it was part and parcel of the relationship, so now it's just double guessing.

I think your timing is not congruent with hers and that leads to frustration with both of you. I would advice you to see if you can break up the big issues in smaller issues that are easier to agree upon, so you can make her think "us", not "him and me".
An easy way out of it is to treat addressing the issue as a date. Take her to a quiet cafe/restaurant where she's away from the house and the kids(!), and talk calmly about your shared future over candlelight. And yes, that means dating your wife again.

Yea I have been thinking this and unsure if introducing the topic of our future might just be a bit much at the moment, but definitely going to try the 'dating' again.

When I've tried to introduce the topic of it, it's been when the kids are in bed, but she's adamant she just can't give it the headspace with everything else that's going on.

I didn't say you should 'suggest' dance lessons. Don't inform her at all of your plans, just take her on a date and have her dress for dancing without telling her. Then take her to the dance studio.
Believe me, no matter how anti-dance she might be, she'll be touched that you care enough to invest in your relationship with her to get you both out of your comfort zone. Like I stated above, it rekindled several LTRs.

Edited to add: make sure to be encouraging her to dance with you. Dancing is fun and sensual and if you can make a woman feel safe dancing in your arms, she will feel safe with you in other aspects as well.

Yea I get you, still think she'd know I just found the advice on the internet but what do I have to lose

 

[Giraffe123]

Fluctuations are fine, but for me, the fact that she deliberately declines to communicate with you is the bad part. Because it isnt just unproductive, it's very selfish of her. She has essentially stopped caring about your experience in the relationship and knows that due to the kids, you cant just walk away when she treats you like you dont matter. I think if you think about and realise what her actions say about her, if she stays on the same track, that you yourself will stop desiring her too.

Take my words with a grain of salt since i have no experience in relationships. And i totally understand why you feel the way you do, i think thats normal and a good sign about you. But from the outside looking in, i suspect what i said is ultimately the truth.

She doesn't decline to communicate, she's actually been quite clear about what she wants, why she's doing it and how she feels, just her approach is polar opposite to mine.

Also she has been clear she knows how I feel and what this is like, but she just doesn't feel she can process it at the moment, and I don't really have any ideas how to speed it up.

 

[Slowhandluke]

Stick a fork in it. The relationship is done. Women are emotional. It takes work for relationships to work. If one person has one foot out of the door, society and culture will push her to "live her best life" and do what makes her "happy". Nothing can be done. This happened to me. Women who are relationship material will understand there are ebbs and flows in relationships and not leave because of the ebbs... I hope those are not your biological kids. If they are, notice how greedy she is by not thinking of the well being of the kids. Kids thrive with both a mother and father.

 

[Giraffe123]

Stick a fork in it. The relationship is done. Women are emotional. It takes work for relationships to work. If one person has one foot out of the door, society and culture will push her to "live her best life" and do what makes her "happy". Nothing can be done. This happened to me. Women who are relationship material will understand there are ebbs and flows in relationships and not leave because of the ebbs... I hope those are not your biological kids. If they are, notice how greedy she is by not thinking of the well being of the kids. Kids thrive with both a mother and father.

So I understand where you are coming from, and she is fully aware of the impact on the kids (they are mine) and it's one of the things she is terrified of if this doesn't end with us together.

What I should probably have said is that she has stated her commitment to making this work and exhausting every option, which I have to take her word for, she's just asking we do it her way, which I am struggling with as I think it just makes things worse

 

[parabellum]

This is probably complicated not only because kids but because you have let your life get entangled with the life of hers. That is reasonable, if you expected her to be your good woman, mother of your children, life companion.
However, this expectation is a double edged sword, and some don’t realize this until the very end.

mind that there are thousands of things that I don’t know about you and could be important in the equation, but from what I have seen in this thread: if I were you, my train of actions would be: internalize that you might Lose her in a blink..make peace with the idea.. then sincerely tell her that her actions prompted you to do that.. and if she needs time, you are willing to give it to her. Move out asap, start working in my own individual life, call mom/dad if she’s still alive,or even better visit her, give them a hug,understand that everything is transient, just different time scales, and move on with your life. If she realizes that she’s not willing to lose you, she will reach out vividly, then if you want to give it a try, then do it. Discuss how things should be done from now on, reach comprises etc. If she never reaches out, there is your final answer.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

When I've tried to introduce the topic of it, it's been when the kids are in bed, but she's adamant she just can't give it the headspace with everything else that's going on.
....
Yea I get you, still think she'd know I just found the advice on the internet but what do I have to lose

This isn't advice you found on the internet. This is advice from a friend whose marriage got out of a slump by making it better to live together through adventure and romance.

Right now you two are sharing a house, but you're not living and loving together. Happens to 75% or more of couples with young children, so you shouldn't feel shame at letting the relationship get this way.

You shouldn't 'wait until the kids are in bed' because then you'd both be to tired. Make a date, arrange a babysitter, turn her from 'mom' back into 'lover'.

 

[Giraffe123]

This is probably complicated not only because kids but because you have let your life get entangled with the life of hers. That is reasonable, if you expected her to be your good woman, mother of your children, life companion.
However, this expectation is a double edged sword, and some don’t realize this until the very end.

mind that there are thousands of things that I don’t know about you and could be important in the equation, but from what I have seen in this thread: if I were you, my train of actions would be: internalize that you might Lose her in a blink..make peace with the idea.. then sincerely tell her that her actions prompted you to do that.. and if she needs time, you are willing to give it to her. Move out asap, start working in my own individual life, call mom/dad if she’s still alive,or even better visit her, give them a hug,understand that everything is transient, just different time scales, and move on with your life. If she realizes that she’s not willing to lose you, she will reach out vividly, then if you want to give it a try, then do it. Discuss how things should be done from now on, reach comprises etc. If she never reaches out, there is your final answer.

This thought has definitely crossed my mind, but I think for me it has to be at the point that all other options are exhausted, as I couldn't look my children in the eye, knowing what happens to children from broken homes, and say I simply walked away.

I have to do it without the expectation that it is a play to get her back, but truly moving on

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

This sounds like a lot happening at once, you have a 3 year old and 1 year old, the LTR is 7 years old, you guys have just moved, done all this other ****.

You say she has just moved jobs, but also say you couldn't envision her having an affair, but in my experience this cold behavior does not come out of nowhere, it is born of something, whether all the girls at her new job are single or there is an affair partner, it seems some new reality has presented itself to her.

Somebody is influencing behind the scenes, whether it be some new girlfriends or a boyfriend destroyer looking for some snatch, who knows.

I would ask her to go to marriage counselling, something every couple should do before even thinking about getting married, no matter how good or bad the situation is. This will also help with co-parenting down the road if it comes to it.

 

[Glassguy]

OP you're in a predicament. One thing that jumps out from your post:

She can't process this now and says she will probably feel the same way when she does decide to process it, as in she doesn't think the 2 of you are going to work out.

I know that if I'm hungry, and have the means, I'll go somewhere else to eat if I can't get it at home anymore. I don't need to wait on someone else to decide if I'm going to starve to death.

Point being, you can't control how she feels and it's not fair to you to wait around to find out what SHE decides. At the end of the day you're responsible for your life, not her.

So I think that YOU should go ahead and make the decision for her. Tell her since she doesn't know if she wants to be married to you and she doesn't feel like she can process it now (which is totally unfair to you), you are making the decision to start the split NOW.

If you hang around for her to finally end things, you'll drive yourself crazy, waste months of your life all to probably hear the same shyte from her as she drags it on longer. Or she dumps you.

It's no way to live, kids or not. I'd simply tell her if this marriage isn't more important to discuss than the other things going on in her life, call it quits. I mean seriously......what else would take precedent over your marriage?

It sounds to me like she wants a few months to test the waters and see if she gets attention from others so she can either monkey branch or run back to you when she gets fvcked and tossed.

Either way, even if you guys talk and settle on working things out, you both either work hard to make it work or this issue and her attitude will resurface later on down the road.

Don't sit around waiting on her to decide what's best for the both of you. You'll be sorry that you did.

 

[Slowhandluke]

Move on. She is using excuses. If she really cares about the relationship, she would ease up on her job... do something/ANYTHING to mitigate the causes of the strain which she isn't. Moving to a new place, getting a new job, etc... Ask youself this: if those things happened earlier in your relationship, would she be acting the same way? I would expect not. She would still love you... she would still do all those small things for you. The relationship has gotten stale in her eyes.

There is a saying. If you love something, you must let it go. Cheesey, but it's time to let her go. Perhaps she will come back OR not... Assume she wouldn't and get going with your life. The only way to fight for this relationship is to let it go. The only way for you to be a better father to you kids is to focus on yourself. Start becoming more successfull. Find other relationships that improves your headspace instead of killing it. The more you gain inner peace, the more you have outer strength. You must take care of yourself before you can start thinking of taking care of other people (your kids).

In any case, good luck. I'm sure you are going to do the complete opposite of what the majority of people here have told you even though we have decades of life experiences more than you hahahahahah... Tis life

 

[BackInTheGame78]

She feels the relationship has run its course more than likely and all that other stuff is her trying to figure out a way to slowly pull away from you.

This relationship is likely ending whether it's today or a year from now if you try and hold onto it.

Sorry to have bad news but any time a woman comes to you with that it's pretty much the beginning of the end.