Why Online Dating(OLD) is the best option for most men

[CornbreadFed]

I will make separate topics on what type of men benefit from Cold Approaching & Warm Approaching/Social Circle Game, but lets start with the most viable option for most men. -

Time and Cost Efficiency: When someone claims that dating apps are a waste of time, it's clear they're just talking without experience in approaching women in the field. How is online dating a waste of time when you can swipe and message women while multitasking, like when you're on the toilet, between workout sets, on the treadmill, at work, or on your couch? Cold approaching requires a significant time commitment, and unless you live near a popular spot (which often comes with high rent), you need to consider logistics and social expenses like food, transportation, and drinks. And don't even start with complaints about paying for Tinder Gold; it costs about the same as a drink at a bar or an Uber ride.

Enhanced Chances of Meeting Outside of Clubs/Bars: Dating apps provide the best opportunity to meet women in non-club or bar settings. Some women give dating apps a try after a breakup or relocating to a new area. In a club or cold approach scenario, you would have never crossed paths with these women because they rarely leave their house or vicinity of social circle.

Elimination of Dead-End Encounters: Dead-end encounters are rejections beyond your control due to factors like a woman's emotional availability, personality preferences, height, race, or the timing of the month. For example, as a person of color in the South, many women may not consider dating a brown guy. Cold approaching random women under these circumstances could result in 99 rejections out of 100, negatively impacting your confidence. On dating apps, every girl you match with is open to dating a brown guy, eliminating that barrier. Similarly, for white guys, you can go out, look your best, have great game, and still face rejection for not meeting specific preferences like height, tattoos, vegan lifestyle, or glasses. Wasting 5-10 minutes on a doomed from the start cold approach is more devasting than wasting time on a Tinder conversation. Every girl you match with on online dating has some interest in you for a reason eliminating these Dead-End Encounters.

Mitigation of Social Repercussion Risk: Approaching every girl at your workplace risks consequences such as termination or facing allegations. Similarly, hitting on every girl at a party can lead to being escorted out for making women uncomfortable. Mistakes in approaching a girl within your social circle, or even breaking up with one, can result in being excluded from friends and social activities.

Advantageous Numbers Game: Cold approaching is only viable in a few locations nationwide, and social circle or warm approaches typically yield limited results. In contrast, online dating provides access to hundreds of potential matches. For many men, warm approaches and social circles are not even feasible options. With Tinder, you receive five likes per day, which totals 150 likes per month, while maximizing cold approach efforts, comparable to dating coaches, may result in around 120 approaches.

Reduced Threat from "Chads": In warm approach and social circle environments, the presence of a Chad can pose significant competition, with every girl vying for their attention regardless of their relationship status within the group. On dating apps, although these men may receive the most matches, they can only devote their attention to a limited number of connections (1-3 at best). This lowers your chances of directly competing against a "Chad."

Personal Safety: Cold approaching in popular city spots can expose you to encounters with criminals or drunken individuals. Engaging in day game in the wrong area may result in encounters with beta males or police interventions under the guise of "rescuing a distressed woman."

Showcasing Instead of Telling: Imagine being a wealthy individual who owns a G-Wagon, travels first class to destinations like Dubai or Monaco, and has a beautiful golden doodle. Instead of verbally boasting about these accomplishments to random women upfront and appearing as a showoff, you can simply present them on your dating profile, allowing hundreds of girls to see them instantly.

 

[SW15]

This is an interesting point of view and I'm glad you shared it. Now I'll offer some comments.

Time and Cost Efficiency: When someone claims that dating apps are a waste of time, it's clear they're just talking without experience in approaching women in the field. How is online dating a waste of time when you can swipe and message women while multitasking, like when you're on the toilet, between workout sets, on the treadmill, at work, or on your couch? Cold approaching requires a significant time commitment, and unless you live near a popular spot (which often comes with high rent), you need to consider logistics and social expenses like food, transportation, and drinks. And don't even start with complaints about paying for Tinder Gold; it costs about the same as a drink at a bar or an Uber ride.

I have done plenty of approaching in the field. It can be very frustrating to go to an outdoor area with decent foot traffic for 2 hours on a weekend afternoon and achieve essentially nothing. That's compounded by the fact that the man had to spend time engaging in basic hygiene activities to go outside and do daygame approaches that fell flat. Additionally, he might have even had to drive to the daygaming location.

At the same time, a man can sit at home looking disheveled and swipe/text for 2 hours. Often times, that results in the same outcome as a 2 hour weekend daygame session on a popular walking/hiking path or at a park.

I don't think either typical daygame or swiping is efficient. Most men have a match rate that's a fraction of 1% of their right swipes.

Elimination of Dead-End Encounters: Dead-end encounters are rejections beyond your control due to factors like a woman's emotional availability, personality preferences, height, race, or the timing of the month. For example, as a person of color in the South, many women may not consider dating a brown guy. Cold approaching random women under these circumstances could result in 99 rejections out of 100, negatively impacting your confidence. On dating apps, every girl you match with is open to dating a brown guy, eliminating that barrier. Similarly, for white guys, you can go out, look your best, have great game, and still face rejection for not meeting specific preferences like height, tattoos, vegan lifestyle, or glasses. Wasting 5-10 minutes on a doomed from the start cold approach is more devasting than wasting time on a Tinder conversation. Every girl you match with on online dating has some interest in you for a reason eliminating these Dead-End Encounters.

There are a lot of time wasting interactions on swipe apps too. You can't say that time wasting interactions are eliminated at all on the swipe apps. A lot of conversations behind a screen go nowhere and result in a flake prior to meeting.

Also, swipe apps are an excellent ways to increase the number of "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions that are also a waste a time. When a man solely does real world approaching, he'll arrange fewer dates. A lot of "one date, no sex, no second date" interactions can be prevented by a 5 minute in-person approach where at least one of the participants won't be "feeling it". The man also ends up saving money on a date where he would have picked up the tab at a bar or possibly a restaurant if he had yet to be properly informed of how bad dinner dates are for creating a romantic spark. Plenty of men are still arranging dinner dates in restaurants as first dates from swipe apps.

Mitigation of Social Repercussion Risk: Approaching every girl at your workplace risks consequences such as termination or facing allegations. Similarly, hitting on every girl at a party can lead to being escorted out for making women uncomfortable. Mistakes in approaching a girl within your social circle, or even breaking up with one, can result in being excluded from friends and social activities.

The mitigation of social repercussions benefits women more than it benefits men. Women enjoy the anonymity of online dating, both on the swipe apps and in the social media DMs. When women act flaky or rude to men that they meet online, their social circles are not informed of the bad behaviors. This is also somewhat true of women who field cold approaches too. The primary time when women face repercussions for treating men poorly is when they date within their social circles.

Your point about dating in the workplace is legitimate. Most white collar men are not trying to arrange dates within their own companies. Most blue collar men don't work with enough women to be able to arrange dates at work. If a white collar man works in a bigger office building (typically 10+ floors in a larger city), he is likely to encounter women working at other companies in the building. He can approach them and arrange dates with women in the other companies without fear of the feminist HR rep or #MeToo.

What you described in social circles is a real issue too. If a man doesn't have a social circle, he can either approach strangers, send social media DMs, or use swipe apps.

For men with social circles, the problem with the social circle method eventually becomes sustainability as social circles get pissed at men who continually exchange girlfriends, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). Remember that social circles generally have a blue pill viewpoint on romantic relationships. A man might be able to pull 2 LTRs from a social circle without marrying one. After 2 instances, he will have typically bled the social circle dry. This is known as "poisoning the well".

Advantageous Numbers Game: Cold approaching is only viable in a few locations nationwide, and social circle or warm approaches typically yield limited results. In contrast, online dating provides access to hundreds of potential matches. For many men, warm approaches and social circles are not even feasible options. With Tinder, you receive five likes per day, which totals 150 likes per month, while maximizing cold approach efforts, comparable to dating coaches, may result in around 120 approaches.

I have lived in 2 of the USA's 15 biggest metro areas since my 2005 college graduation. My viewpoint is likely skewed by having lived in 2 metro areas where approaching strangers is viable.

It's possible to swipe through hundreds to thousands of more women than one could possibly approach from either nightlife approaching or non-bar approaching.

There's a lot more quantity on the swipe apps but it's not usually going to lead to meaningful interactions.

Reduced Threat from "Chads": In warm approach and social circle environments, the presence of a Chad can pose significant competition, with every girl vying for their attention regardless of their relationship status within the group. On dating apps, although these men may receive the most matches, they can only devote their attention to a limited number of connections (1-3 at best). This lowers your chances of directly competing against a "Chad."

Disagree completely. There is plenty of competition from 'Chad' online. 'Chad' online is invisible whereas 'Chad' may be visible in the gym or in a nightlife venue. 'Chad' usually is not doing grocery store or mall approaching simply because he has abundance in other venues.

Personal Safety: Cold approaching in popular city spots can expose you to encounters with criminals or drunken individuals. Engaging in day game in the wrong area may result in encounters with beta males or police interventions under the guise of "rescuing a distressed woman."

The biggest personal safety risks in approaching strangers are in nightlife venues. Non-bar approaching is less risky. I've done plenty of non-bar approaching but my photos were rated around a '7' on Photofeeler. A less attractive man doing non-bar approaching may have to deal with women calling the approach unwanted and creepy, which could lead to police and security inventions. That is more likely to happen if the man is socially uncalibrated. A person with decent looks and adequate social skills usually isn't going to run into problems daygaming. Lingering in one retail location too long can start to cause problems though. I wouldn't recommend more than one hour in a grocery store. The best practices around other retail venues are concrete.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I think OLD had its peak at some point where it was efficient to meet women through. I think the 2010s were the peaks for the dating apps and I would have weeks where I got 4 to 5 dates off of them which turned to lays. However, I think that now, they have become a money grab infested with bots and fake profiles. They use deceptive marketing and other under-handed tricks to make you pay and resetting your profile to get a new ELO score has become darn near impossible.

Here is a good read

Attention men: get rid of online dating, now

Online dating is now a waste of time for men in 2021.

bowtiedplayer.substack.com

 

[Dr.Suave]

You make some good points OP. Still, if you have 10 new threads a day in SoSuave, 11 of them will be about "OLD is full of trash".

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Tinder is destroying men’s self-esteem

When Ben Ellman, 26, moved to NYC in 2015 and fired up his Tinder and OkCupid profiles, he was expecting to meet a bevy of compatible women. Instead, the 5-foot-9 journalist was swiped left by matc…

nypost.com

OLD may have a downside for some.

 

[corrector]

Agreed. I've looked at this blackpill video that encourages OLD, especially dating apps like Tinder, as a great option for sub-5s:

We have allot of dead-time here and there so if you can handle dating on a smartphone and you are just swiping left or right, it sounds completely managable on any dead-time (ie waiting in line, lunch-break at work, on the train, while mobile, etc...). At the end of the day, if you meet someone, then you made a connection you would not have made otherwise in real life, and if not, then you at least used your dead-time more productively and have the mental satisfaction that you tried rather than bury your head in the sand and watch yourself get older and time passing by.

It might be damaging for self-esteem, but then if you are a sub-5, you are already used to that and don't have that much expectations in the first place. It's like a free lottery. If you could swipe a free lottery ticket where you could win a million, and all it cost was dead time, would you not do that, even if there was extreme odds of winning?

 

[CornbreadFed]

Imagine wasting your time behind a screen in a cesspool that is OD, instead of becoming a high value man with an interesting life, cool hobbies, making bank, muscles, developing character by approaching, gaining confidence on each approach, to which women are naturally drawn to those types of guys.

You're right that's better for most guys cause most guys are losers anyways.

how will you do this if you are spending your weekends cold approaching?

 

[CornbreadFed]

Disagree completely. There is plenty of competition from 'Chad' online. 'Chad' online is invisible whereas 'Chad' may be visible in the gym or in a nightlife venue. 'Chad' usually is not doing grocery store or mall approaching simply because he has abundance in other venues.

In a cold approach scenario, Chad isn’t a big deal. I am talking about confined warm approach areas such as work, parties, a class, social circles, and etc. In these scenarios you are basically invisible because Chad is hogging all of the emotional investment from the group. Women are always seeking highest value male, so if one is in proximity they don’t give af about the others. Yes, Chad can get a lot of matches but he can only talk to a few girls at a time and actively date even fewer if he chooses to.

 

[corrector]

In a cold approach scenario, Chad isn’t a big deal. I am talking about confined warm approach areas such as work, parties, a class, social circles, and etc. In these scenarios you are basically invisible because Chad is hogging all of the emotional investment from the group. Women are always seeking highest value male, so if one is in proximity they don’t give af about the others. Yes, Chad can get a lot of matches but he can only talk to a few girls at a time and actively date even fewer if he chooses to.

Exactly. Some of the horror stories I remember, there was one guy and two girls in a small group and I couldn't even get eye-contact with the girls there as they were just focused on the "chad" like guy. Even if you have a gf in these social circles, there is allot of relational insecurity because she too gets too mesmorized and forgets you exist when he is around and that sows destructive seeds. It's hard when you are timid, and barely making connections and then here come chad or whatever and you are totally invisible.

An online chad is at least out of mind to some degree, and while anything can be left to the imagination, at least it's not in your face where you immediately feel bad.

 

[SW15]

In a cold approach scenario, Chad isn’t a big deal. Women are always seeking highest value male, so if one is in proximity they don’t give af about the others.

The highest value male can be present in a bar or on the general gym floor. If you go to most gyms, most women are wearing earbuds to discourage approaches but they'll sometimes try to body language signal to 6'0"+ guys with big muscles. On the general gym floor, particularly in the free weights/barbells section of a gym, big muscles are what women find sexy. Even fit guys with leaner body types get ignored in favor of muscle mass at the gym in the free weights/barbells section of a gym.

At most nightlife venues, 6'0"+ guys with bigger muscles are the top guys too.

Those are both cold approach settings.

I am talking about confined warm approach areas such as work, parties, a class, social circles, and etc. In these scenarios you are basically invisible because Chad is hogging all of the emotional investment from the group. Women are always seeking highest value male, so if one is in proximity they don’t give af about the others.

I think the line between what's a cold approach and what's a warm approach is a bit unclear and debatable.

Work, private parties at residences, and social circle are definitely warm approach. A co-ed sports league is a weak warm approach setting at best. Hitting on a woman who works at another company in the same building is a cold approach.

I think classes are more cold approach than warm approach. A 200-300 person lecture hall class at a university (typically freshman-sophomore level) would be more of a cold approach than a warm approach. There might be a case that a 25-40 person class at the junior-senior level in undergrad is a warm approach, but I would still think that's a colder approach. Fitness classes at a big box gym (think LA Fitness or 24 Hour Fitness) or a bigger name class based fitness brand (think SoulCycle or Title Boxing) would be more cold approach than warm approach.

 

[Gamisch]

"The chances of everyone, every single soul, passing my profile and swiping left is almost impossible." ( do not bet the farm on this statement..)


Here's the thing OP. Firstly ,IMO the numbers represented by numerous "investigations " and what we see on sosuave are somewhat similar. 10% of men seems completely oblivious to what the other 90% experience. I can name 4 members who said they have absolutely zero problems with OLD..

Strange analogy; but you sound like the criminal who tells his friends that growing weed at home isn't THAT big of a risk..he's never been caught after all! How come it doesnt work for all of you???

Secondly: your ONLY experience is with OLD. Men who have both C approach and OLD experiences, can tell the difference in quality they can pull. I said this before about you(seeing you keep repeating your POV despite numerous members told you you have a broken view on reality ) ..its either one of these.
-you are a super Chad.
-the quality of women you get is mweh
-you simply don't know that you don't know

 

[Gamisch]

Tinder is destroying men’s self-esteem

When Ben Ellman, 26, moved to NYC in 2015 and fired up his Tinder and OkCupid profiles, he was expecting to meet a bevy of compatible women. Instead, the 5-foot-9 journalist was swiped left by matc…

nypost.com

OLD may have a downside for some.

Recently I read some sosuave OLD GOLD. A member whose name I can't remember said; "OLD is a supplement to your "normal " dating life. It might land you 2 or 3 lays extra per year but dont expect anything more."

The most nuanced and realistic pov I've read so far.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I spend 1 day of the weekend doing what I enjoy, going to dance salsa, bachata, merengue, latino music. That's how I meet women, approach, kino and try to make some connection.

I'm not the typical guy drinking by the bar.

I'm not going to take up salsa dancing to meet women lol. It just doesn't spark my interest that much. My hobbies and interests don't attract a lot of females, so OLD is decent for me.

I think the line between what's a cold approach and what's a warm approach is a bit unclear and debatable.

Work, private parties at residences, and social circle are definitely warm approach. A co-ed sports league is a weak warm approach setting at best. Hitting on a woman who works at another company in the same building is a cold approach.

I think classes are more cold approach than warm approach. A 200-300 person lecture hall class at a university (typically freshman-sophomore level) would be more of a cold approach than a warm approach. There might be a case that a 25-40 person class at the junior-senior level in undergrad is a warm approach, but I would still think that's a colder approach. Fitness classes at a big box gym (think LA Fitness or 24 Hour Fitness) or a bigger name class based fitness brand (think SoulCycle or Title Boxing) would be more cold approach than warm approach

Yeah it does vary, but lets use a social circle bar hangout for example. There's 10 people in the group, maybe 3 girls are single, and 5 guys are single with one couple. If one of the guy is a Chad, he basically has all of the 3 girls attention the whole time. You can go attempt to hit on the girls, but her attention will always be focused on the Chad and you hitting on her is a distraction. She's better off hooking up outside the group in secret to avoid ruining her chances with the Chad.

 

[Bingo-Player]

I will make separate topics on what type of men benefit from Cold Approaching & Warm Approaching/Social Circle Game, but lets start with the most viable option for most men. -

Time and Cost Efficiency: When someone claims that dating apps are a waste of time, it's clear they're just talking without experience in approaching women in the field. How is online dating a waste of time when you can swipe and message women while multitasking, like when you're on the toilet, between workout sets, on the treadmill, at work, or on your couch? Cold approaching requires a significant time commitment, and unless you live near a popular spot (which often comes with high rent), you need to consider logistics and social expenses like food, transportation, and drinks. And don't even start with complaints about paying for Tinder Gold; it costs about the same as a drink at a bar or an Uber ride.

Enhanced Chances of Meeting Outside of Clubs/Bars: Dating apps provide the best opportunity to meet women in non-club or bar settings. Some women give dating apps a try after a breakup or relocating to a new area. In a club or cold approach scenario, you would have never crossed paths with these women because they rarely leave their house or vicinity of social circle.

Elimination of Dead-End Encounters: Dead-end encounters are rejections beyond your control due to factors like a woman's emotional availability, personality preferences, height, race, or the timing of the month. For example, as a person of color in the South, many women may not consider dating a brown guy. Cold approaching random women under these circumstances could result in 99 rejections out of 100, negatively impacting your confidence. On dating apps, every girl you match with is open to dating a brown guy, eliminating that barrier. Similarly, for white guys, you can go out, look your best, have great game, and still face rejection for not meeting specific preferences like height, tattoos, vegan lifestyle, or glasses. Wasting 5-10 minutes on a doomed from the start cold approach is more devasting than wasting time on a Tinder conversation. Every girl you match with on online dating has some interest in you for a reason eliminating these Dead-End Encounters.

OP you can message women all day on these apps , a lot of guys do

Women don't have that much going on in their lives they mainly download these apps to kill time and garner attention , ive actually had multiple women tell me they download the apps with ABSOLUTLEY NO INTENTION OF GOING ON DATES

If you are going to get led on a path to absolutely nowhere it will be on a dating app

As I've already stated a 1000 times here there are only so many avenues of conversation you can have with someone you haven't met and barely know

when you approach a woman in the real world you will know within about 10 mins wether she is interested or not , and the even bigger bonus is that you can actually judge her vibe and her personality

 

[BillyPilgrim]

That's the difference between you and me, you don't dance, I've enjoyed dancing since I was a kid, the byproduct of that, you become different from other guys. You have to do something you don't like to attract women.

While you and your girlfriend go to a club and sit on the bar, I dance with them and show them a good time.

Different strokes for different folks

Better a dancing nacho than a dancing monkey.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

That's the difference between you and me, you don't dance, I've enjoyed dancing since I was a kid, the byproduct of that, you become different from other guys. You have to do something you don't like to attract women.

While you and your girlfriend go to a club and sit on the bar, I dance with them and show them a good time.

Different strokes for different folks

 

[CornbreadFed]

Lol not saying my method is the one to do, but that's something I enjoy, never 100% leads to something, but its very enjoyable, cause at the same time you're keep developing new moves, increases your skills as a dancer

I will make another topic for pros for each method. Guys like you benefit from warm approach/network game because your interests align with hobbies that attract women.

 

[SW15]

I spend 1 day of the weekend doing what I enjoy, going to dance salsa, bachata, merengue, latino music. That's how I meet women, approach, kino and try to make some connection.

Guys like you benefit from warm approach/network game because your interests align with hobbies that attract women.

This doesn't sounds like warm approach to me. This sounds like a man going to nightclubs that play salsa, bachata, merengue, and Latino music and meeting Hispanic/Latina women. That's approaching strangers.

Yeah it does vary, but lets use a social circle bar hangout for example. There's 10 people in the group, maybe 3 girls are single, and 5 guys are single with one couple. If one of the guy is a Chad, he basically has all of the 3 girls attention the whole time. You can go attempt to hit on the girls, but her attention will always be focused on the Chad and you hitting on her is a distraction. She's better off hooking up outside the group in secret to avoid ruining her chances with the Chad.

In a 10 person group like that, at least one of the 3 females will be unattractive. 5 guys will be competing hard for the 1 or 2 attractive women in the group. The 1 in-group 'Chad' might get the 1 in-group attractive woman. It's possible that the 2 lesser attractive women of the 3 total women in the group might be better off dating outside that social circle if they don't feel good about their odds with the in-group 'Chad'.

Many years ago in my social circle, a couple of moderately attractive single women entered it and there were massive competitions for these women.

Due to the excess numbers of males in that group, more of the males will end up using swipe apps or approaching strangers.

 

[corrector]

This doesn't sounds like warm approach to me. This sounds like a man going to nightclubs that play salsa, bachata, merengue, and Latino music and meeting Hispanic/Latina women. That's approaching strangers.

I talked to a black female co-worker at work who has a 5 year son and is happily married. I asked her, how did she meet her husband? She told me that she met him during a salsa class. Looks like people really meet in these venues.

 

[CornbreadFed]

This doesn't sounds like warm approach to me. This sounds like a man going to nightclubs that play salsa, bachata, merengue, and Latino music and meeting Hispanic/Latina women. That's approaching strangers.

Idk I consider it a warm approach because y'all are in the same class together and communication isn't seen as potentially taboo. Cold Approaching to me is outright approaching a woman in the blue without any social backing.

In a 10 person group like that, at least one of the 3 females will be unattractive. 5 guys will be competing hard for the 1 or 2 attractive women in the group. The 1 in-group 'Chad' might get the 1 in-group attractive woman. It's possible that the 2 lesser attractive women of the 3 total women in the group might be better off dating outside that social circle if they don't feel good about their odds with the in-group 'Chad'.

Many years ago in my social circle, a couple of moderately attractive single women entered it and there were massive competitions for these women.

Due to the excess numbers of males in that group, more of the males will end up using swipe apps or approaching strangers.

In my fraternity, we would have girls come to our parties specifically looking for a particular guy. Sometimes it was me haha, but it was mostly these 3 Chads. One guy I never really saw it, I guess he just had a movie actor face, the other two were your typical pretty boy frat chads. You could approach these women thinking they are single and approachable, and they just bail on you the minute their target guy appears.