I am tired of blackpillers and anti-self improvement guys on here

[Stanley]

That's not true at all and if anything will make things worse.

The only thing a man should be trying to change is if he has really poor social skills or something like very odd body language, stuff like excessive or low/no eye contact, odd mannerisms, etc. This is definitely a very real issue for some men, particularly those who are legitimately on the spectrum on some level. A lot of men in the engineering and hard science fields (physics, chemistry, etc.) would honestly be in this category. Something else I think of is having poor social interactions with the opposite sex, this is often a result of just being inexperienced. This could be something like being too pushy or aggressive, having a sense of humor that women don't really understand, etc.

Now, trying to actually change your personality will just make you come across as fake. Men that are highly extroverted, life of the party types don't act that way intentionally, it's just their nature. A man that is naturally more introverted who tries to put on an act like this is going to come across as awkward or strange to others. They may not be able to pick up on specifically what it is, but his behavior will feel off to them. This is where recognizing what type of social interactions work for you and those that don't. An introvert like this would not do good at a club, bar or party type environment.

Something that I want to add to this is that men that are introverted doesn't mean they are shy and vice versa. I like my down time more than most, but I always thought I was very introverted and socially awkward. Nope! turns out everyone who knows me when I'm in a good mood as the 'life of the party guy' and act very extroverted. Which surprised me.

In my readings studying self image I learned that very few people actually have a good understanding about how they are perceived externally. I always thought I was the weird looking awkward kid with not much to offer. It wasn't until I put myself out there more and realized I am the literal opposite of that. My self image was wrong and most blackpill/incell culture types have poor self image.
The work Maxwell Maltz is a good read for that

I think 'act as if' has its merit when you are applying yourself in a way you aspire to be and it is a method often taught in cognitive behavioral therapy in an attempt to get one to improve and aim towards self actualization. There is a fine line between genuineness and acting though. It can help kickstart someone in the right direction, but it is best to be yourself.... BUT you need to be the best fully realized version of yourself that is socially calibrated. If who you really are is a lame socially odd out of shape dude then those are things you can improve and fix to become the better version of you.


I still identify as an introvert, but I realized the difference between shyness/anxiety and not true introversion. A introverted guy can still be the life of the party and he can change.

 

[SargeMaximus]

That 'wisdom' is already out there in the form of the old material.
Not that it actually worked as sold, of course. If it did, people wouldn't be 'still looking for the magical wisdom'
You see the contradiction?
Everyone has read and tested mysterymethod and NLP and everything else, yet all still looking for the next thing.
There is no magic bullet. You improve what you can and you approach lots of girls and you bang the ones who like you back. You can't make her like you, i'm afraid. Not with all the 'game' in the world

There definitely are some magic bullets. Claiming there aren’t is misleading tbh. What’s your alternative? Just resign to what fate decided your place will be? That doesn’t work for me

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Not true. I’m not new to game and I tried for many years to fake it till I made it. Was a virgin till I said “fvck that” and was myself

Evolution and change are different things. You want to be you, but evolving into your actualized self

When I was a 5 y/o kid, I decided I was going to be "me" and pick my nose in public. I've since stopped.

 

[SargeMaximus]

You want to be you, but evolving into your actualized self

that’s exactly what I did

 

[CornbreadFed]

Something that I want to add to this is that men that are introverted doesn't mean they are shy and vice versa. I like my down time more than most, but I always thought I was very introverted and socially awkward. Nope! turns out everyone who knows me when I'm in a good mood as the 'life of the party guy' and act very extroverted. Which surprised me.

In my readings studying self image I learned that very few people actually have a good understanding about how they are perceived externally. I always thought I was the weird looking awkward kid with not much to offer. It wasn't until I put myself out there more and realized I am the literal opposite of that. My self image was wrong and most blackpill/incell culture types have poor self image.
The work Maxwell Maltz is a good read for that

I think 'act as if' has its merit when you are applying yourself in a way you aspire to be and it is a method often taught in cognitive behavioral therapy in an attempt to get one to improve and aim towards self actualization. There is a fine line between genuineness and acting though. It can help kickstart someone in the right direction, but it is best to be yourself.... BUT you need to be the best fully realized version of yourself that is socially calibrated. If who you really are is a lame socially odd out of shape dude then those are things you can improve and fix to become the better version of you.


I still identify as an introvert, but I realized the difference between shyness/anxiety and not true introversion. A introverted guy can still be the life of the party and he can change.

Based off your first paragraph I would classify you as an introvert. However, Americans have a terrible idea on what an Extrovert/Introvert is. The concept is based off what you stated…energy management. Do you need a lot of down time to recharge or very little? I used think I was an introvert because I was shy, but I could never be by myself or in the house for very long. Being shy can be caused by a bunch of reasons such as incompatible environment, personal issues, and etc. Last, if you have considered yourself an ambivert than you are basically an extrovert lol.

 

[Barrister]

Good post, OP.

This place really started to make a shift to more black-pill themed topics on a more regular basis about three years ago in 2020. It started to change once Covid hit - and maybe part of that is that a lot of guys were stuck inside feeling hopeless. I can't say for sure. What I can tell you is this place used to be a lot better. More inspiring - for the reasons you speak of and more. We are missing some posters now that were around when I joined in 2018 that formed kind of the backbone of solid, great advice to men looking to change their lives around. Getting women were a byproduct of that advice. However, there were also a lot more field reports and feedback off those reports that was sort of the bread and butter of this place and made it a lot of fun and inspiring. You really don't see that here anymore. You are more likely to see a thread about genetics, race, or general complaining. Which is disappointing.

That said, this is STILL one of the best places left on the internet for men. It may not be what it once was, but it is still a safe haven for guys who want to be real men. And we have still have guys who give great advice. As our recently departed Atom Smasher used to say, you have to mine the place for the gold - but the gold is still here.

 

[DonJuanjr]

you have to mine the place for the gold - but the gold is still here.

This is esoteric talk to those who don't know what gold looks like... I maintain that the likes of AS, you, and others like Dash, and Howie, should have links to the gold in your signatures. Otherwise people are skipping over the gold thinking it's fools gold...

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I would think being Black-pilled would inspire one to strive to improve more.

 

[sangheilios]

I would think being Black-pilled would inspire one to strive to improve more.

I think the underlying tone of black pill is that there isn't anything you can do about the predicament in your life. A really good example of this would be thoughts like "I am on the spectrum and therefore will not be able to make friends". However, a better thought process would be "I am on the spectrum and have a hard time making friends but if I work on my social skills I may be able to".

There are some other things about black pill that kind of tie in with the red pill, though I think the main difference between the two is something like what I mentioned above. I think the black pill seems to focus entirely on looks and how literally your success, or lack therof, in dating and society is based around them. There is some truth to this but I honestly feel the only men who should believe into the black pill fully are those who are legitimately well below average. Men like this are a small minority, but they do exist and are often in a set of circumstances where it honestly may be incredibly difficult or even impossible to see any real results.

 

[Stanley]

Based off your first paragraph I would classify you as an introvert. However, Americans have a terrible idea on what an Extrovert/Introvert is. The concept is based off what you stated…energy management. Do you need a lot of down time to recharge or very little? I used think I was an introvert because I was shy, but I could never be by myself or in the house for very long. Being shy can be caused by a bunch of reasons such as incompatible environment, personal issues, and etc. Last, if you have considered yourself an ambivert than you are basically an extrovert lol.

I still identify myself as an 'introvert'.

I enjoy time with people and going out, but I also and more than ok being alone for very long periods of time and always have been. No, I do not feel a need to recharge anymore, but I am a loner by nature and had to force myself out to realize it was shyness and at times laziness in my way. I think people lean far too much into these labels which are borderline pseudoscience in the world of psychology anyways. They have their place in roughly identifying someone, but we are far too nuanced to just be categorized into one thing. I believe it is more of a spectrum sort of thing which does not remain static as humans are dynamic, you're just not going to swing to one end of it if that isn't your 'truer' nature.

 

[corrector]

I think the underlying tone of black pill is that there isn't anything you can do about the predicament in your life. A really good example of this would be thoughts like "I am on the spectrum and therefore will not be able to make friends". However, a better thought process would be "I am on the spectrum and have a hard time making friends but if I work on my social skills I may be able to".

There are some other things about black pill that kind of tie in with the red pill, though I think the main difference between the two is something like what I mentioned above. I think the black pill seems to focus entirely on looks and how literally your success, or lack therof, in dating and society is based around them. There is some truth to this but I honestly feel the only men who should believe into the black pill fully are those who are legitimately well below average. Men like this are a small minority, but they do exist and are often in a set of circumstances where it honestly may be incredibly difficult or even impossible to see any real results.

You didnt date since 2019 and are over six feet. Are you part of that minority?

 

[sangheilios]

You didnt date since 2019 and are over six feet. Are you part of that minority?

I don't consider myself black pill if that is what you are trying to imply.

I honestly wasn't too familiar with the black pill until I came across this thread the other day. When I started reading into it the theme seemed to be that dating success is entirely based around your appearance. I believe that there is a high degree of truth to this but it's not that black and white, no pun intended. They seem to believe that if a woman is rejecting you it's because she does not find you attractive, which is totally correct. However, this does not necessarily mean that rejection is due purely to looks, which is what they seem to focus on. Sure, some guy that is morbidly obese is going to struggle, but even men like this in some cases are finding and maintaining relationships. Now, how and why this is the case could be due to a million different factors that these black pillers aren't even aware of.

Contrary to what a lot of these pillers believe, it's not possible to be every woman's "type". I'm going to disregard ultra rare examples of men, particularly celebrities and the like, and focus on real world men. A woman may say she wants a guy who is 6'+ and fit. She meets 2 men that are in this category and ultimately she chooses one over the other. The black piller may say it's because the other guy is slightly taller and in better shape, which is possible. The black pillers may then say that she has race preferences, one is black and the other is white......again, there is some truth to this because many women will not date men of certain/other races. However, the black pillers do not seem to acknowledge that the one she chose she had more in common with, implying they were more personally compatible. Maybe the other guy she did NOT choose gave off "**** boi" vibes, and the last guy she was with was a serial cheater lol. Maybe the other guy made her feel like she just wasn't that important to him lol.

What I'm getting at is the blackpillers seem to obsess about purely physical features, which are set in stone and cannot be changed. Thus, this is the reason why they believe that there is nothing you can do about your predicament if you are well below average, etc. However, they are failing to acknowledge other variables, some of which are not quite so easy to identify. There's definitely some truth to the black pill though.

 

[corrector]

I don't consider myself black pill if that is what you are trying to imply.

I honestly wasn't too familiar with the black pill until I came across this thread the other day. When I started reading into it the theme seemed to be that dating success is entirely based around your appearance. I believe that there is a high degree of truth to this but it's not that black and white, no pun intended. They seem to believe that if a woman is rejecting you it's because she does not find you attractive, which is totally correct. However, this does not necessarily mean that rejection is due purely to looks, which is what they seem to focus on. Sure, some guy that is morbidly obese is going to struggle, but even men like this in some cases are finding and maintaining relationships. Now, how and why this is the case could be due to a million different factors that these black pillers aren't even aware of.

Contrary to what a lot of these pillers believe, it's not possible to be every woman's "type". I'm going to disregard ultra rare examples of men, particularly celebrities and the like, and focus on real world men. A woman may say she wants a guy who is 6'+ and fit. She meets 2 men that are in this category and ultimately she chooses one over the other. The black piller may say it's because the other guy is slightly taller and in better shape, which is possible. The black pillers may then say that she has race preferences, one is black and the other is white......again, there is some truth to this because many women will not date men of certain/other races. However, the black pillers do not seem to acknowledge that the one she chose she had more in common with, implying they were more personally compatible. Maybe the other guy she did NOT choose gave off "**** boi" vibes, and the last guy she was with was a serial cheater lol. Maybe the other guy made her feel like she just wasn't that important to him lol.

What I'm getting at is the blackpillers seem to obsess about purely physical features, which are set in stone and cannot be changed. Thus, this is the reason why they believe that there is nothing you can do about your predicament if you are well below average, etc. However, they are failing to acknowledge other variables, some of which are not quite so easy to identify. There's definitely some truth to the black pill though.

That analogy does not define blackpill mindset since its more systematic (ie how many matches and meetups through tinder vs one specific women who rejects you). So with your analogy the rejected guy just meets someone else on the dating app. A blackpilled guy may not be meeting enough people, if any at all, and just give up. Women reject chads too.

 

[Gamisch]

This forum is becoming more and more blackpill. People are using the terms normie, chadlite, and chad seriously. I sense a large amount of apathy and disillusionment in the people who use these terms. They feel that they are confined to a certain league, defined by their looks, and are condemned to stay there. Approaching becomes pointless because no girls will respond.

This mentality was not in the PUA community in its heyday. When you read Roosh, Strauss, and especially Pook, you feel excited. You hear cool stories and you get pumped to try the tactics yourself. You may have once sucked with women, but writers like those above give you a spark to take action and approach. They remind you that you will fail, but that eventually — sometime — you will succeed.

It is from this inspiration that I began my PUA journey. I was excited — though very nervous — to learn how to get girls. These guys told me how to approach. They gave me a plan for action. I came into college and started applying. I failed a ton, and didn’t work up enough confidence to approach time after time, but I had a goal in my mind so I kept going.

These OG PUA guys weren’t against improving your looks. No, not at all. Pook’s article on gaining muscle mass inspired me to lift:

What every skinny guy should know…

High rates of testosterone affects not only your actions, I believe women can sniff it out. So take a guy, stuffed with testosterone, and push him into a room full of lovely young ladies. He doesn’t speak a word. He won’t have to. The women will go to him automatically.

bookofpook.com

But they didn’t tell me that I couldn’t approach if I didn’t have X muscles, Y veins, and Z height. There were no thresholds, no requirements. I just had to put the work in and eventually I would succeed. Yes, I had to improve myself as a man, but that was what I should be doing for myself anyways. I didn’t have to rate myself out of 10 every time I go out to “match” myself with an equal rating girl. Who wants to do that?

The above PUA authors helped me out greatly. I am having a blast at my college. I have two plates I bang every week now and not a year ago I hadn’t even kissed a girl. I’ve gained a good 40 pounds of muscle mass and can now bench 300 lbs max.

One of my biggest inspirations was these PUA guys, especially Pook. They have an excitement in their writing that makes you want to emulate them. It gives you a drive to see other guys’ success. You want to be like them. So you set to work, improve yourself and overcome your fears.

I just don’t see this enthusiastic mindset here much. There is much more complaining about the state of women in general, with the subtext being they are not even worth approaching anymore. Nothing is worth it, so the mentality goes.

Screw that. I don’t like this blackpill trend. Literally 99/100 guys aren’t approaching at all. They have no idea what their potential is. They don’t even know how to talk to girls, because they haven’t. I want these men to find sparks of inspiration, not endless moaning and groaning.

I tell some of my college friends my adventures with women, and they’re always amazed. Not many people do this stuff — and other guys think it’s pretty inspiring and cool. Why drive them off by being blackpill and against any sort of improvement? Instead drive them forward, to greener pastures!

I hope this blackpill trend changes and we can inspire more men through this forum.

I geuss more men getting desperate as dating clearly became more difficult. Sosuave at least provides an alternative view that deviates from the general mainstream. I can imagine a man will run in circles when he follows mainstream reddit /bluepilled mommies/ sister advice. And the difference between for example approaching women and getting them home vs swiping and never getting a match is what's going on nowadays. Countless layers of problems with women. All these men want something, all these men seek advice.

At this piont you should/ could simply salute a man for at least trying..men are telling men to give up on women..no woman no cry meant " woman dont cry" and not" no woman no pain".

You are right, but don't think there will be less posts about the blackpill. It's simply a part of modern manhood. Look around you in your own circle and life and the blackpiller wont be too far away. We all know a few (potential) blackpillers.

At some piont you almost feel sorry to talk about having success with women on sosuave, and that's kinda crazy.

 

[sangheilios]

That analogy does not define blackpill mindset since its more systematic (ie how many matches and meetups through tinder vs one specific women who rejects you). So with your analogy the rejected guy just meets someone else on the dating app. A blackpilled guy may not be meeting enough people, if any at all, and just give up. Women reject chads too.

I'm not sure where you are reading into that. To me, after reading about black pill I view it as the mindset that you have a certain set of traits and characteristics that are 100% responsible for what you will experience in the dating market and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Again, there is some truth to this element but it's not that black and white. It's true that some races do worse than others with dating, that doesn't mean that being an Asian or Indian man will necessarily doom you for a life of inceldom. However, it is a fact that the vast majority of white women would not date men in this category. It's also a fact that the majority of women of all races will consider dating a white man. It's true that women seem to overwhelmingly say they prefer men that are 6'+, that does not mean if you are below this you are doomed. Women will typically look for a man that is taller than them, being a 5'7" man in the U.S means that you are in the height range for the majority of women. Being on the spectrum means that you may lack in social skills and have a hard time with dating/relationships. However, this does not necessarily mean that it is totally impossible, though I feel in more severe cases this can be a huge handicap.

This is how I view the blackpill mindset, I believe there are some truths to what they discuss but it's also coming from a place of thought like "what's the point".

 

[Stanley]

@sangheilios you're getting it man.

I wouldn't go any deeper into the black pill though, it is rife with weirdos who will advocate for you to get all sorts of organthic surgery and the like to improve your chances with women or improve your self esteem. As you say just as I did, they do get somethings right, but it isn't so black and white...

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

The way I see it is, both red pill and black pill except the true nature of women. Black pill, adherent’s sit around and ***** about it, hand, wringing, and teeth gnashing. Red pill, accepts it for what it is works around it and still manages to enjoy a female company. That’s pretty much it.

I black pill talks, red pill walks.

I’ll be honest I don’t understand black pill in the least bit. I don’t understand why someone who obviously wants the companionship of women gives up on them.

 

[Gamisch]

The way I see it is, both red pill and black pill except the true nature of women. Black pill, adherent’s sit around and ***** about it, hand, wringing, and teeth gnashing. Red pill, accepts it for what it is works around it and still manages to enjoy a female company. That’s pretty much it.

I black pill talks, red pill walks.

I’ll be honest I don’t understand black pill in the least bit. I don’t understand why someone who obviously wants the companionship of women gives up on them.

My guess is that ironically enough the black pillers are the more romantic ones, with less realistic expectations. Rp ,like you say,will work around difficulties. Big part of being able to do this is by being a realistic person with realistic expectations of love and women.

Black pill are full of traumatized men, who are scared to death to be with women. Some people would like to travel overseas but are scared to fly, so they dont travel overseas anymore.

Obviously a man is better off being bluepilled than black pill.

 

[Mike32ct]

My guess is that ironically enough the black pillers are the more romantic ones, with less realistic expectations. Rp ,like you say,will work around difficulties. Big part of being able to do this is by being a realistic person with realistic expectations of love and women.

Black pill are full of traumatized men, who are scared to death to be with women. Some people would like to travel overseas but are scared to fly, so they dont travel overseas anymore.

Obviously a man is better off being bluepilled than black pill.

Agree with all those insights.

Yes, oddly, black pillers are often romantics. Black pill is actually somewhat compatible with blue pill. They believe love is real, but it is triggered by looks.

Honestly, I don’t think blue pill is even that bad, if the guy has a ton of patience, doesn’t simp too hard, and doesn’t hang out in the friendzone too long.

 

[SW15]

I don’t think blue pill is even that bad, if the guy has a ton of patience and doesn’t hang out in the friendzone too long.

My friends and acquaintances are mostly blue pill guys. Blue pill guys can get laid and get into LTRs. There are some blue pill guys who are completely ignored by women.

The typical guy in an LTR or married is a blue pill guy.

In real life, red pill and black pill guys are difficult to meet.