Fear of Rejection? Understand what you are actually afraid of

[thelambofdeth]

While you may have a point on not learning anything. What is valuable is getting the exposure therapy for rejection. Take your ego out of it.

That's not how it works, mate. Having AA/low self-esteem/lack of experience, or whatever else isn't usually about ego. Confidence comes from positive reinforcement, success, and/or goodwill....ofc you're going to be afraid of rejection if you're not already getting any of that. Just getting rejected isn't going to somehow soften the blow, unless you're getting success.

 

[Barrister]

I see this "abundance mindset" thrown here and all the "dating coaches"

How do you teach abundance to a persona that has had few lays? That didn't developed women skills in their youth cause he was working hard, studying hard and not chasing women at all to have a great quality life.

Do you have a step-by-step program? If not then saying "have abundance" is pointless.

It is a mindset -- there isn't really a "step by step" process to get there either. It really boils down to not caring if you lose a particular woman's attention. If you want that IDGAF attitude, it is obviously much easier if you have multiple women around - but you can get there without it too. If you are a guy that has only "had a few lays" as you state, then find your confidence through something else. You can always develop other facets of your life to raise your confidence that do not involve banging women.

 

[DonJuanjr]

I see this "abundance mindset" thrown here and all the "dating coaches"

How do you teach abundance to a persona that has had few lays? That didn't developed women skills in their youth cause he was working hard, studying hard and not chasing women at all to have a great quality life.

Do you have a step-by-step program? If not then saying "have abundance" is pointless.

Want to know a cheat code for abundance mentality? Lower your standards....

 

[DonJuanjr]

If you are a guy that has only "had a few lays" as you state, then find your confidence through something else. You can always develop other facets of your life to raise your confidence that do not involve banging women.

Life confidence doesn't translate to sexual confidence.

 

[Barrister]

Life confidence doesn't translate to sexual confidence.

No offense, but I am amazed at how guys who admittedly have little success with women continue to want to tell everyone what works and what doesn't.

And in response, it certainly can. The way you do it is by realizing that you have done "x, y, z" before which is much tougher and with higher stakes than talking to the cute blonde chick sitting at the bar. You find your focus with this and go from there. Realize that ultimately nothing you say to her trying to create some attraction makes that big of a difference and you will be having fun with it. Maybe you get her number for a date in the future or maybe you don't - but who cares.

Or, continue to lament about what you don't have, which is what a very vocal few of you do on this site.

 

[DonJuanjr]

No offense, but I am amazed at how guys who admittedly have little success with women continue to want to tell everyone what works and what doesn't.

I'm amazed that guys think one needs to have success with women to be able to analyze everything else about life.... If you've always had some kind of success with women how do you know what mindset works or not? You've had that success even as a blue pilled beta. You were married after all... How would you know about lack of sexual confidence as a guy that's older than early 20s? I've never had a lack of confidence with my abilities with anything else in life.... It didn't translate over to sexual confidence.

BTW I wasn't stating what works, but lack of success is a good way to know what doesn't work.

 

[Barrister]

I'm amazed that guys think one needs to have success with women to be able to analyze everything else about life.... If you've always had some kind of success with women how do you know what mindset works or not? You've had that success even as a blue pilled beta. You were married after all... How would you know about lack of sexual confidence as a guy that's older than early 20s? I've never had a lack of confidence with my abilities with anything else in life.... It didn't translate over to sexual confidence.

Where did I say you "needed to have success with women to analyze everything else about life"? Everything I have written in this thread has been about having a IDGAF attitude when it comes to women. I am not referencing anything else about life except to say you can find confidence in other things outside of women when you are first starting out. I don't think that is unreasonable - but perhaps you disagree.

My point to you, which admittedly was more flippant than it should have been, is that a lot of you guys come on here with a disclaimer that you have had very little (sometimes no) success with women, but then want to just continually shoot down the advice that guys who have had success with women give to other members on the board. It isn't helpful and ends up being a distraction. Unless you simply enjoy argument for the sake of argument I don't know why you guys do it.

 

[DonJuanjr]

My point to you, which admittedly was more flippant than it should have been, is that a lot of you guys come on here with a disclaimer that you have had very little (sometimes no) success with women, but then want to just continually shoot down the advice that guys who have had success with women give to other members on the board. It isn't helpful and ends up being a distraction. Unless you simply enjoy argument for the sake of argument I don't know why you guys do it.

Don't lump me in with everyone else.... I'm quiet on things I haven't experienced. That's why in a lot of situational advice threads, you don't see me giving any..... I can give advice on things that I have experienced. Which is what I do.... In this instance you are giving advice on something you haven't experienced... You always had sexual confidence as a post early 20s man. Don't tell me, that having confidence about other aspects of my life is going to translate over to sexual confidence. You wouldn't know... As proof, I AM confident with my life abilities beyond women. It never helped sexual confidence. I'm sure there are plenty of incels who excel at their lives in other ways, yet it doesn't translate to sexual confidence... Only sexual experience gives rise to sexual confidence. Something I've experienced first hand... Which is why I'm vocal about men who are late bloomers lowering their standards to get experience. You wouldn't know the pressure they are experiencing, because you had their experience by the time you were 18...Before you had any life experience confidence to make up for lack of sexual confidence.

Yet I'm sure you're just going to scoff this response off as me giving advice on things I don't know about because I don't have the experience you do....

 

[SW15]

Every time you approach a woman you’re supporting her value. If that comes coupled with rejection too many times, guys give up (unless he’s Indian).

Not approaching is sometimes the best option. Especially if you’re constantly rejected. You’re just elevating female egos (simping) and not getting any returns. It’s embittering.

I don’t know how the Indian men do it. I approach a fair amount & I am deeply insulted by my rejections. The rejection is insane, even if it is just a woman unwilling to engage in a conversation long enough for me to ask her to show up to a date.

I’ve had successes but had to work through pain & trauma. I can’t tell you how much it sucks to get rejected by a subpar to mediocre looking woman when you are above average. That’s happened to me. It has happened to @momentomori despite his pics rating 8.5 on Photofeeler.

What I'm saying is that these opportunities basically just fall into a man's lap. As I mentioned to @BackInTheGame78 , men aren't doing things like toastmasters or taking acting/improvisation classes to work on their verbal game. Most men aren't going out multiple nights per week actively approaching large numbers of women or going to social/dating events regularly, those suck btw. Most men are just going about living their lives and at some point their paths cross with a woman that happens to be single and is into them to at least some degree. At that point in time and in situations like this, these women are either interested or not. A man could be in the middle of some massive self improvement and he gets rejected but when these efforts align together a couple years down the road she would have been interested in that version of him. Again, it's all just a combination of timing and luck.

I personally believe that if you need to spend a ton of time and energy into getting anywhere in the dating world there is something very wrong, not necessarily with you as an individual but it could heavily be related to the overall social scene of your area and the women in it, things you have no control over.

+1

These are realities for those who lack social circles. Social circles do a lot of the legwork described in this.

 

[BeExcellent]

Agree totally with @Barrister on his comments and I agree with the OP as well.

Fear of rejection from women is an irrational fear borne out of over valuation placed on the opinions of strangers. I mean what are they going to do, melt you into a puddle? Are you going to die if she says no? Do you freak out if someone rejects you offering them ketchup? I doubt it.

Perhaps the less successful would do well to listen to and digest more what successful (with women) men do…and what they suggest on here.

But that means facing oneself and one’s defeatist attitude…and honestly bjtching and complaining is easier than changing.

That’s the fact Jack.

And yes an abundance mindset is important. To succeed with anything in life really. If you cannot wrap your negative brain around that you have work to do my dear. On yourself.

 

[member160292]

Do you have a step-by-step program? If not then saying "have abundance" is pointless.

It's not something you can develop overnight, it takes some time to develop. If you boil the ocean to try having the abundance mindset, you'll come off like an @sshole.

First off would be to eliminate the 'scarcity' mindset where you think there are only a few women interested in you. With that thinking you hold on to your prospects for way to long in fear of not getting another opportunity elsewhere.
In order to do that as @Barrister mentioned, you need to focus on other aspects of your life outside of women.

Money - Your bob, investments

Your place, make sure it's where a women will enjoy her time. If you live in a sh!thole, you will feel like crap. Clean it up​

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Fitness - Keep at it

Your physique is very ideal. If I had your shape, by confidence would be through the roof​

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HOBBIES - This is very important, women want a man that can introduce them to new things or things in common

Knowledge - Being intellectual are key bonuses when talking with women. Of course, don't be a political soundbox idiot

Social Aptitude - Here's where the rubber meets the road. The only way to develop this is when you feel good about where your life is going. It's the pleasant energy you give off to anyone who is around you. Almost as if you are a butterfly minding their own business and puts a smile on people's faces just by being there. Challenge yourself to have a conversation with one person a day, the goal being a smile on their face when you leave

Do your best, forget the rest.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I didn’t read through this entire thread, but I will say this: The most effective way to completely lose one’s fear of rejection is to set aside a year to reject women right and left and call them on the carpet for the stupid things they do and say. Visibly show your disgust with their behavior, but in a non-invested way.

Learn the power of physically turning your back on women.

Once you spend some time doing this, you will find that more and more women will find themselves immensely attracted to you. And you will find yourself automatically rewarding good behavior and rejecting them for bad behavior. And believe me, the vast majority will indeed be on their best behavior because they will FEEL your power.

Women need to look up to their man. That means it is essential that you convey with your aura that you couldn’t care less if they leave or stay.

Purposeful rejection of women is the golden key to obliterating your own fear of rejection, but 98% of you can’t see that. Some men can agree in principle but can’t bring themselves to actually do it.

“But Atom Smasher, won’t that make me an insufferable tyrant?”
On the contrary, it will turn you into a man who is friendly, kind, generous and fun to be around, but also a man who is not to be f’d with. It will make you a man whom women respect and admire. It will make you the man whom they go home and think about day and night, unlike the eager puppy dog men they deal with day in and day out.

Try it if you dare, and obliterate your fear of rejection. Life is paradox, friend.

 

[member160292]

I didn’t read through this entire thread, but I will say this: The most effective way to completely lose one’s fear of rejection is to set aside a year to reject women right and left and call them on the carpet for the stupid things they do and say. Visibly show your disgust with their behavior, but in a non-invested way.

Learn the power of physically turning your back on women.

Once you spend some time doing this, you will find that more and more women will find themselves immensely attracted to you. And you will find yourself automatically rewarding good behavior and rejecting them for bad behavior. And believe me, the vast majority will indeed be on their best behavior because they will FEEL your power.

Women need to look up to their man. That means it is essential that you convey with your aura that you couldn’t care less if they leave or stay.

Purposeful rejection of women is the golden key to obliterating your own fear of rejection, but 98% of you can’t see that. Some men can agree in principle but can’t bring themselves to actually do it.

“But Atom Smasher, won’t that make me an insufferable tyrant?”
On the contrary, it will turn you into a man who is friendly, kind, generous and fun to be around, but also a man who is not to be f’d with. It will make you a man whom women respect and admire. It will make you the man whom they go home and think about day and night, unlike the eager puppy dog men they deal with day in and day out.

Try it if you dare, and obliterate your fear of rejection. Life is paradox, friend.

Hey Atom,

Respect for that post.

On similar lines, I'm very direct in my communications. If they choose to follow, great if not, then so be it.
Recently, I was visiting my best friend and his female cousins said I was too blunt. I didn't see it as that since they were engaging with me and giggling. I was probably AMOG (lol, I hate that term but can't think of anything else) carrying conversations with everyone.
What's your take on being direct/blunt? Is it something you master along the way without offending people or something you own up to?

 

[MtmVaott]

Learn the power of physically turning your back on women.

I did this sometimes in the past in interactions with women, but I always knew she would be drawn by it and come back to me, even if I was in another room for example. And in the end, I would still try to get with her.

Are you suggesting to reject every women for one year, even if they would start to aggressively begging for your affection?
Is the definitive and final rejection of highly interested, "good quality" women the key here?

 

[Plinco]

I think part of the issue with men who fear rejection from women to the point they won't approach them is they are looking at it from the wrong angle.

Anytime you approach a woman no matter what the result of the interaction, you receive valuable feedback. However, it's only valuable if you do something with it.

Being rejected by a woman is giving you constructive criticism. Basically it says whatever you are doing didn't work to get the result you wanted. However, it also gives you various levels of feedback. The type and lengths of the interactions, what went well and what didn't, etc.

All of this requires some type of commitment to improving your interactions over time and some introspection to determine what you need to work on and/or change.

The issue as I see it is too many people are afraid of receiving critical feedback. You need to greatly increase your feedback threshold level.

The secondary issue is you have low self-worth. So before you continue to work on getting better with women, you need to get better with yourself.
In fact, people afraid of rejection by definition have low self-worth because you are putting so much importance on another person's opinion of you that it greatly overshadows your own opinion of yourself.

Your opinion of yourself should always be the most important opinion and other people's opinions shouldn't have an effect on it.

To be completely honest with you, my fear of rejection has nothing to do with any of this. My fear of rejection comes from the institutional power that society gives women to harm a man's reputation.

 

[firstbornunicorn]

disagree. it's not about you. you can do 100 approaches and they'll all be different even if you do the same thing.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Hey Atom,

Respect for that post.

On similar lines, I'm very direct in my communications. If they choose to follow, great if not, then so be it.
Recently, I was visiting my best friend and his female cousins said I was too blunt. I didn't see it as that since they were engaging with me and giggling. I was probably AMOG (lol, I hate that term but can't think of anything else) carrying conversations with everyone.
What's your take on being direct/blunt? Is it something you master along the way without offending people or something you own up to?

Women speak and communicate covertly. It’s best to deal with women on that level. They understand subtle messages.
I would say it’s advantageous to be direct, but disadvantageous to be blunt. Bluntness sometimes causes collateral damage, while directness is more of a precision tool.
Women respond appropriately to directness but sometimes completely shut down when faced with bluntness. Bluntness usually carries a clumsy, mis-calibrated stigma.
It’s all nuance like most skills in life. I think it’s a good idea to practice direct communication but mix it up with hints and playfulness. If you find yourself about to be overly blunt, change it up to a hint or a round-about way to express it, then follow it up with body language. Women understand covert communication.

 

[member160292]

Women speak and communicate covertly. It’s best to deal with women on that level. They understand subtle messages.
I would say it’s advantageous to be direct, but disadvantageous to be blunt. Bluntness sometimes causes collateral damage, while directness is more of a precision tool.
Women respond appropriately to directness but sometimes completely shut down when faced with bluntness. Bluntness usually carries a clumsy, mis-calibrated stigma.
It’s all nuance like most skills in life. I think it’s a good idea to practice direct communication but mix it up with hints and playfulness. If you find yourself about to be overly blunt, change it up to a hint or a round-about way to express it, then follow it up with body language. Women understand covert communication.

Great insight, this is something I need to work on. Much appreciated

 

[DonJuanjr]

That's not how it works, mate. Having AA/low self-esteem/lack of experience, or whatever else isn't usually about ego. Confidence comes from positive reinforcement, success, and/or goodwill....ofc you're going to be afraid of rejection if you're not already getting any of that. Just getting rejected isn't going to somehow soften the blow, unless you're getting success.

I realize I didn't respond to this. Got side tracked with barrister haha...

It is how it works. You just haven't gone through it enough. I'm telling you, after a while, rejections will get easier and easier. It took about 40, before it got to the point of, "Oh, well. Maybe the next one." Don't get me wrong, if you stop for an extended period of time, it slightly comes back, but after one or two, its back to that level of not affecting.

 

[SW15]

It is how it works. You just haven't gone through it enough. I'm telling you, after a while, rejections will get easier and easier.

I've never experienced this and I've been in the game 20+ years. I don't like rejections. I am insulted when 4.5s and 5.5s reject me as a 7. That has happened.

It’s difficult to approach a totally random woman in an environment where you have no reason to interact with her and on top of this get her to like you in a very short span of time.

I can attest to this. I’ve done approaches in bars and a variety of non-bar venues.

Something else to consider is that many women feel uncomfortable when random men approach them and will auto reject.

This has happened to me. I’m sure of it. Most of the time, it takes on the form of a conversation that fizzles out in 30-60 seconds. The interaction itself isn’t unpleasant but it takes up some effort to strike up the conversation. You’d want results for the effort.

Since about 2015, I've had many instances where women could not process the fact that I was approaching them. One of the more drastic instances of this occurred on a walking path where I made a comment about the tourist destination on a woman's t-shirt and tried to make conversation around that. She started walking faster when I did that and acted like I was a homeless man asking her for money. That was socially inept. She wasn't the only one to do that. In the 2015-19 era (pre-pandemic), I did many grocery store approaches where the woman didn't understand a man approaching them and making conversation in that setting. It seemed like a such a foreign concept to them and it was uncomfortable for them. It is understandable why they might act that way, as daygame (non-bar approaching) has always been a niche activity, even from 1985-2005 before technology facilitated meetings became commonplace.

The older I get the more I realize it's truly about just being at the right time and the right place with the right woman......luck. You could be tall, fit, handsome and have a lot going for you but yet have very little opportunity to meet women, this could be due to a variety of reasons. You could even force yourself to go out and interact with the opposite sex and yet none of them are single. The only real thing you have control over is what you bring to the table and how you present yourself to women, that's it. You really don't have any control over whether or not she finds you attractive, she either does or doesn't.

It also doesn't help when the overall dating market today is heavily warped, there's a reason why there are so many frustrated men and it has nothing to do with "game" or there being something wrong with them.

With a lot of those interactions that fizzle out in 30-60 seconds in a non-unpleasant way (the majority of my approaches), I'd like to think that the majority of those approaches were on women who weren't in the market for new penis. They never indicate why they give off such indictors of disinterest in these approaches, the majority of which are non-bar approaches. In non-bar approaching, it's only natural to run into more people who are attached in some way. There's no point in going to a bar if you are attached.

I've also done non-bar approaching at times where I thought the woman wasn't in a relationship based on the context. For instance, if you're a woman at the gym at 7:30 AM on a weekend morning, I would think that you're not in a relationship. If you were, why would you be in the gym? You'd be in bed with your romantic partner still.