Fear of Rejection? Understand what you are actually afraid of

[2Rocky]

How would a mid 30s guy with no social proof go about this?

Be the "Mysterious Stranger" befriend the guys who are with the attractive women. If you have the social skills and can hang with them, they say "Hey Rocky is cool.." But having the social ability to meet other guys and not come off as a threat, while bringing some value, is the key.

Just like approaching women there is a Gatekeeper. you will see him checking on folks doing a fair bit of talking but it's not about him. That's the guy you want to notice you and strike up a conversation... share some of your beer pitcher with him, compliment his outfit, talk about something he mentioned and you eavesdropped...

 

[Suave88]

I think part of the issue with men who fear rejection from women to the point they won't approach them is they are looking at it from the wrong angle.

Anytime you approach a woman no matter what the result of the interaction, you receive valuable feedback. However, it's only valuable if you do something with it.

Being rejected by a woman is giving you constructive criticism. Basically it says whatever you are doing didn't work to get the result you wanted. However, it also gives you various levels of feedback. The type and lengths of the interactions, what went well and what didn't, etc.

All of this requires some type of commitment to improving your interactions over time and some introspection to determine what you need to work on and/or change.

The issue as I see it is too many people are afraid of receiving critical feedback. You need to greatly increase your feedback threshold level.

The secondary issue is you have low self-worth. So before you continue to work on getting better with women, you need to get better with yourself.
In fact, people afraid of rejection by definition have low self-worth because you are putting so much importance on another person's opinion of you that it greatly overshadows your own opinion of yourself.

Your opinion of yourself should always be the most important opinion and other people's opinions shouldn't have an effect on it.

My fear of rejection comes from bytches play hot and cold, asking about me at the personal level at first, getting personal, then, she be mentioning her husband or asking about other dude, but her reaction could be the result of me taking too long to ask her out and being rejected because of shyt she is saying I cannot really assimilate and prompts me to take step backs. I believe I should concentrate on the objective and not the obstacles.

 

[sangheilios]

Again, I will agree with your comments - to an extent. But most men aren't approaching at all. It isn't just that they aren't doing some desperate toastmasters or speed dating event. It is that they are too petrified to even talk to women and have no clue on how to maximize their success with talking to them.

No one here is advocating to just spam approach women either. It is a learned skill to know when it is opportune to do so and how to do it without it coming off desperate. A contingent of men on this forum seem like they have cold approached once in their life, gotten shut down, and then just given up because they don't look like Brad Pitt or have Warren Buffet's money.

It isn't so much that I think you're wrong as you sound pretty fatalistic when it comes to being successful with women. That is where I think you are missing the mark a bit -- IMO.

I agree that many men are not approaching women that are ultimately strangers, though there are a multitude of reasons for this. One could definitely be related to a lack of social confidence, it's difficult to approach a totally random woman in an environment where you have no reason to interact with her and on top of this get her to like you in a very short span of time. Something else to consider is that many women feel uncomfortable when random men approach them and will auto reject. Sure, some of this could be due to a bad approach but I've witnessed this before and the vibe I noticed was that they often had no clue as to what was going on and what to do. Another factor is that in modern society interaction with other people is not really normal, how often is it you go to a grocery store and start talking to random strangers? Most people just do their own thing and mind their business with little to no social interaction.

It also doesn't help when the overall dating market is severely warped, with women grossly overestimating themselves whilst often severely underestimating most men. I've said this a million times on here, but I'm a white male that is in my early 30s and 6'4" and around 235-240 and one of the fittest guys at the gym I go to. I have 17" arms and a 47" chest, etc. Anyway, I've had women tell me I have a "dad bod" or point out an obese woman and tell me that is my league. A few years ago I was out with some friends and one of them wanted to talk to this group of women, they were honestly slightly below average, and one of them start criticizing my appearance. Most men are not built like I am and if someone like me experiences this I can't even imagine what a more average or even below average man goes through. The end result is given enough of these experiences these men will stop approaching, which is totally rational on their end btw. There's a reason why PUA bootcamps and all these youtube channels about "game" and approaching women, working on speaking skills, etc. are so popular today. Also a reason why there are so many channels talking about the red pill, modern dating issues and entire forums dedicated to incels, etc.

 

[sangheilios]

Flexed or cold? At 5'6 I have 16.25" arms flexed and with a pump. So I'd hope for your height you mean cold and not flexed. Otherwise that's not as jacked for your height as you'd think.

You just said that you had a pump, by that I'm assuming you mean pumping up with a ton of curls and stuff. That makes a huge difference, just in case you didn't know. For someone your height it's highly unlikely you have arms that size unless you are on steroids, and it would look bad on your frame btw. Most bodybuilder types are in horrendous shape btw, not sure if you are aware of this or not, and it's not something that I even remotely strive for. They also are predominately of "manlet" status, so with that in combination with steroids and not actually being in shape it looks comical to say the least.

 

[BadWatermelon]

I've come to realize that often my approach anxiety doesn't come from the woman, it comes from everyone else. Will her boyfriend show up while I'm approaching her? Will the other waitress be mad that I didn't ask her out? Will one of the other girls see me strike out, and then I won't have a chance with her?

Add to this that women complain all the time about being approached by creeps.

 

[sangheilios]

Actually I got them to that size as a natty... But I don't think my arms are even big. If I measure cold, and straight, they're a hair over 13". I'm just saying for your height it's not jacked... If you're talking pumped and flexing.

You have no idea what you are talking about lol. Anyway, this is deviating away from the topic of the thread.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Every time you approach a woman you’re supporting her value. If that comes coupled with rejection too many times, guys give up (unless he’s Indian).

Not approaching is sometimes the best option. Especially if you’re constantly rejected. You’re just elevating female egos (simping) and not getting any returns. It’s embittering.

Men approach when they get good feedback. Men don’t approach when the legal system is insane (#metoo) and 90% of “high value women” have broken hymens.

The problem is usually they continue to do the same things that aren't working over and over again without any type of thought put in into where they are going wrong in the interaction or what they could be doing better.

Cold approaching is tough because you don't know the status of the woman you are approaching.

It's kinda like doing cold calling for sales.

Is the woman on the market? If she is happily involved with someone it doesn't matter what you say you are likely getting rejected unless you are a 9 or 10 to her.

Is the woman interested in your product's appearance? This is how she views your looks. If you don't meet her looks threshold, it's an auto rejection.

Does your presentation make her want to buy your product? This is the area that you CAN control the MOST. This is your "sales pitch" so to speak or what you are talking with her about and how the conversation flows. It encompasses non-verbal things like body language and how you approach her, verbal things like the conversation, intonation, etc and how she feels as all this is going on.

Most people think they are losing out because of 1 or 2, but the reality is most people lose our because of #3. They don't create any desire in the woman for her to want to go out with them.

It's why you have some sales people who excel and others who are average and others that are bad. The people who excel are able to create a desire in the other person to buy their product by whatever means necessary, and for every person how they create that desire is going to be different. Same with woman...how you create that desire is going to be different with different women, you need to adjust on the fly to what she is giving you in terms of signals that tell you what the best approach will be. And that is tough, no doubt about it, but the people who get comfortable doing that are the ones who end up having the most success.

 

[sangheilios]

The problem is usually they continue to do the same things that aren't working over and over again without any type of thought put in into where they are going wrong in the interaction or what they could be doing better.

Cold approaching is tough because you don't know the status of the woman you are approaching.

It's kinda like doing cold calling for sales.

Is the woman on the market? If she is happily involved with someone it doesn't matter what you say you are likely getting rejected unless you are a 9 or 10 to her.

Is the woman interested in your product's appearance? This is how she views your looks. If you don't meet her looks threshold, it's an auto rejection.

Does your presentation make her want to buy your product? This is the area that you CAN control the MOST. This is your "sales pitch" so to speak or what you are talking with her about and how the conversation flows. It encompasses non-verbal things like body language and how you approach her, verbal things like the conversation, intonation, etc and how she feels as all this is going on.

Most people think they are losing out because of 1 or 2, but the reality is most people lose our because of #3. They don't create any desire in the woman for her to want to go out with them.

It's why you have some sales people who excel and others who are average and others that are bad. The people who excel are able to create a desire in the other person to buy their product by whatever means necessary, and for every person how they create that desire is going to be different. Same with woman...how you create that desire is going to be different with different women, you need to adjust on the fly to what she is giving you in terms of signals that tell you what the best approach will be. And that is tough, no doubt about it, but the people who get comfortable doing that are the ones who end up having the most success.

Something that wasn't mentioned on here that is very important is that it's also a numbers game. Let's say the average success rate of an approach leading to an actual number and meeting up on a date is 10%, many women give out their numbers with little thought but may not be open to meeting up. If a man is only approaching a woman once per month that means he'd be getting 1 date per year, maybe 2 if he experiences some positive side variance. For many men, one of the biggest issues is due to a lack of access to women that are single and available. This may have nothing to do with "game" and simply be related to just not being in a set of circumstances that are conducive to meeting women.

The best opportunity is when young men are in college/university, as it's a predominately female environment and the majority of them will be single/unattached. After this period of time men may be in the career grind and maybe have a little bit of a social life where they hang out with some friends and engage in some hobbies. If a man is lacking a good social circle he will find it difficult to meet women IF he is also not in a set of circumstances where he crosses paths with many women. Some of this just comes naturally, as was mentioned on here, but you can put yourself in a place to further your odds. The problem is that with today's society this is not as easy as it used to be.

Many young women are constantly glued to their phones, which is a deterrent of social interaction from strangers. Single/dating events are complete trash, and no man should resort to something like this. Nightlife game is an option but it's not for most men out there and if one is looking for a relationship with at least a halfway quality woman this is not where you find one. Church is a good social atmosphere but if you aren't religious I'd steer clear of it. Outside of cold approaching, which is the most difficult means of meeting women, the only other real option is dating apps, which are also a terrible choice for men.

I feel bad for the average young man today, their parents and grandparents did not have to go through this much just to get a damn date from a non obese female, let alone actually form a relationship with one lol.

 

[MtmVaott]

What I'm saying is that these opportunities basically just fall into a man's lap. As I mentioned to @BackInTheGame78 , men aren't doing things like toastmasters or taking acting/improvisation classes to work on their verbal game. Most men aren't going out multiple nights per week actively approaching large numbers of women or going to social/dating events regularly, those suck btw. Most men are just going about living their lives and at some point their paths cross with a woman that happens to be single and is into them to at least some degree. At that point in time and in situations like this, these women are either interested or not. A man could be in the middle of some massive self improvement and he gets rejected but when these efforts align together a couple years down the road she would have been interested in that version of him. Again, it's all just a combination of timing and luck.

I personally believe that if you need to spend a ton of time and energy into getting anywhere in the dating world there is something very wrong, not necessarily with you as an individual but it could heavily be related to the overall social scene of your area and the women in it, things you have no control over.

I'm not sure if you guys have yet realized this, but I'm saying it nonetheless: The Red Pill is not reality, it's just another layer of the matrix. It's still fixated on women to get motherly love and warmth. The end goal is still to end up with a woman.
After a certain age a boy is expected to leave mom's lap and walk towards danger, death, hardship, passing on wisdom, .... If you ever turn 180 degree on this path and try to go back again to sit in mother's lap, women will punish you for it.
You will only be afraid of getting rejected if you look in the wrong direction of the path.

 

[thelambofdeth]

I think part of the issue with men who fear rejection from women to the point they won't approach them is they are looking at it from the wrong angle.

Anytime you approach a woman no matter what the result of the interaction, you receive valuable feedback. However, it's only valuable if you do something with it.

Being rejected by a woman is giving you constructive criticism. Basically it says whatever you are doing didn't work to get the result you wanted. However, it also gives you various levels of feedback. The type and lengths of the interactions, what went well and what didn't, etc.

All of this requires some type of commitment to improving your interactions over time and some introspection to determine what you need to work on and/or change.

The issue as I see it is too many people are afraid of receiving critical feedback. You need to greatly increase your feedback threshold level.

The secondary issue is you have low self-worth. So before you continue to work on getting better with women, you need to get better with yourself.
In fact, people afraid of rejection by definition have low self-worth because you are putting so much importance on another person's opinion of you that it greatly overshadows your own opinion of yourself.

Your opinion of yourself should always be the most important opinion and other people's opinions shouldn't have an effect on it.

This isn't true. She could be in a bad mood, you asked her at the wrong time or having a bad day or any one of 1,562,663 things that randomly influence women and you learn absolutely nothing, and if you're someone with approach anxiety, you take massive self-esteem hit. The point is you often DON'T receive critical feedback and you never know why you were unsuccessful bc too much of approaching is based on chance and circumstance.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This isn't true. She could be in a bad mood, you asked her at the wrong time or having a bad day or any one of 1,562,663 things that randomly influence women and you learn absolutely nothing, and if you're someone with approach anxiety, you take massive self-esteem hit. The point is you often DON'T receive critical feedback and you never know why you were unsuccessful bc too much of approaching is based on chance and circumstance.

Then you need to work on yourself internally first because no amount of validation is ever going to fix you internally. Can't use glue to put a shattered plate back together again.

 

[thelambofdeth]

While you may have a point on not learning anything. What is valuable is getting the exposure therapy for rejection. Take your ego out of it.

That's not how it works, mate. Having AA/low self-esteem/lack of experience, or whatever else isn't usually about ego. Confidence comes from positive reinforcement, success, and/or goodwill....ofc you're going to be afraid of rejection if you're not already getting any of that. Just getting rejected isn't going to somehow soften the blow, unless you're getting success.

 

[Barrister]

I see this "abundance mindset" thrown here and all the "dating coaches"

How do you teach abundance to a persona that has had few lays? That didn't developed women skills in their youth cause he was working hard, studying hard and not chasing women at all to have a great quality life.

Do you have a step-by-step program? If not then saying "have abundance" is pointless.

It is a mindset -- there isn't really a "step by step" process to get there either. It really boils down to not caring if you lose a particular woman's attention. If you want that IDGAF attitude, it is obviously much easier if you have multiple women around - but you can get there without it too. If you are a guy that has only "had a few lays" as you state, then find your confidence through something else. You can always develop other facets of your life to raise your confidence that do not involve banging women.

 

[Barrister]

Life confidence doesn't translate to sexual confidence.

No offense, but I am amazed at how guys who admittedly have little success with women continue to want to tell everyone what works and what doesn't.

And in response, it certainly can. The way you do it is by realizing that you have done "x, y, z" before which is much tougher and with higher stakes than talking to the cute blonde chick sitting at the bar. You find your focus with this and go from there. Realize that ultimately nothing you say to her trying to create some attraction makes that big of a difference and you will be having fun with it. Maybe you get her number for a date in the future or maybe you don't - but who cares.

Or, continue to lament about what you don't have, which is what a very vocal few of you do on this site.

 

[Barrister]

I'm amazed that guys think one needs to have success with women to be able to analyze everything else about life.... If you've always had some kind of success with women how do you know what mindset works or not? You've had that success even as a blue pilled beta. You were married after all... How would you know about lack of sexual confidence as a guy that's older than early 20s? I've never had a lack of confidence with my abilities with anything else in life.... It didn't translate over to sexual confidence.

Where did I say you "needed to have success with women to analyze everything else about life"? Everything I have written in this thread has been about having a IDGAF attitude when it comes to women. I am not referencing anything else about life except to say you can find confidence in other things outside of women when you are first starting out. I don't think that is unreasonable - but perhaps you disagree.

My point to you, which admittedly was more flippant than it should have been, is that a lot of you guys come on here with a disclaimer that you have had very little (sometimes no) success with women, but then want to just continually shoot down the advice that guys who have had success with women give to other members on the board. It isn't helpful and ends up being a distraction. Unless you simply enjoy argument for the sake of argument I don't know why you guys do it.

 

[SW15]

Every time you approach a woman you’re supporting her value. If that comes coupled with rejection too many times, guys give up (unless he’s Indian).

Not approaching is sometimes the best option. Especially if you’re constantly rejected. You’re just elevating female egos (simping) and not getting any returns. It’s embittering.

I don’t know how the Indian men do it. I approach a fair amount & I am deeply insulted by my rejections. The rejection is insane, even if it is just a woman unwilling to engage in a conversation long enough for me to ask her to show up to a date.

I’ve had successes but had to work through pain & trauma. I can’t tell you how much it sucks to get rejected by a subpar to mediocre looking woman when you are above average. That’s happened to me. It has happened to @momentomori despite his pics rating 8.5 on Photofeeler.

What I'm saying is that these opportunities basically just fall into a man's lap. As I mentioned to @BackInTheGame78 , men aren't doing things like toastmasters or taking acting/improvisation classes to work on their verbal game. Most men aren't going out multiple nights per week actively approaching large numbers of women or going to social/dating events regularly, those suck btw. Most men are just going about living their lives and at some point their paths cross with a woman that happens to be single and is into them to at least some degree. At that point in time and in situations like this, these women are either interested or not. A man could be in the middle of some massive self improvement and he gets rejected but when these efforts align together a couple years down the road she would have been interested in that version of him. Again, it's all just a combination of timing and luck.

I personally believe that if you need to spend a ton of time and energy into getting anywhere in the dating world there is something very wrong, not necessarily with you as an individual but it could heavily be related to the overall social scene of your area and the women in it, things you have no control over.

+1

These are realities for those who lack social circles. Social circles do a lot of the legwork described in this.

 

[BeExcellent]

Agree totally with @Barrister on his comments and I agree with the OP as well.

Fear of rejection from women is an irrational fear borne out of over valuation placed on the opinions of strangers. I mean what are they going to do, melt you into a puddle? Are you going to die if she says no? Do you freak out if someone rejects you offering them ketchup? I doubt it.

Perhaps the less successful would do well to listen to and digest more what successful (with women) men do…and what they suggest on here.

But that means facing oneself and one’s defeatist attitude…and honestly bjtching and complaining is easier than changing.

That’s the fact Jack.

And yes an abundance mindset is important. To succeed with anything in life really. If you cannot wrap your negative brain around that you have work to do my dear. On yourself.

 

[member160292]

Do you have a step-by-step program? If not then saying "have abundance" is pointless.

It's not something you can develop overnight, it takes some time to develop. If you boil the ocean to try having the abundance mindset, you'll come off like an @sshole.

First off would be to eliminate the 'scarcity' mindset where you think there are only a few women interested in you. With that thinking you hold on to your prospects for way to long in fear of not getting another opportunity elsewhere.
In order to do that as @Barrister mentioned, you need to focus on other aspects of your life outside of women.

Money - Your bob, investments

Your place, make sure it's where a women will enjoy her time. If you live in a sh!thole, you will feel like crap. Clean it up​

​

Fitness - Keep at it

Your physique is very ideal. If I had your shape, by confidence would be through the roof​

​

HOBBIES - This is very important, women want a man that can introduce them to new things or things in common

Knowledge - Being intellectual are key bonuses when talking with women. Of course, don't be a political soundbox idiot

Social Aptitude - Here's where the rubber meets the road. The only way to develop this is when you feel good about where your life is going. It's the pleasant energy you give off to anyone who is around you. Almost as if you are a butterfly minding their own business and puts a smile on people's faces just by being there. Challenge yourself to have a conversation with one person a day, the goal being a smile on their face when you leave

Do your best, forget the rest.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I didn’t read through this entire thread, but I will say this: The most effective way to completely lose one’s fear of rejection is to set aside a year to reject women right and left and call them on the carpet for the stupid things they do and say. Visibly show your disgust with their behavior, but in a non-invested way.

Learn the power of physically turning your back on women.

Once you spend some time doing this, you will find that more and more women will find themselves immensely attracted to you. And you will find yourself automatically rewarding good behavior and rejecting them for bad behavior. And believe me, the vast majority will indeed be on their best behavior because they will FEEL your power.

Women need to look up to their man. That means it is essential that you convey with your aura that you couldn’t care less if they leave or stay.

Purposeful rejection of women is the golden key to obliterating your own fear of rejection, but 98% of you can’t see that. Some men can agree in principle but can’t bring themselves to actually do it.

“But Atom Smasher, won’t that make me an insufferable tyrant?”
On the contrary, it will turn you into a man who is friendly, kind, generous and fun to be around, but also a man who is not to be f’d with. It will make you a man whom women respect and admire. It will make you the man whom they go home and think about day and night, unlike the eager puppy dog men they deal with day in and day out.

Try it if you dare, and obliterate your fear of rejection. Life is paradox, friend.

 

[member160292]

I didn’t read through this entire thread, but I will say this: The most effective way to completely lose one’s fear of rejection is to set aside a year to reject women right and left and call them on the carpet for the stupid things they do and say. Visibly show your disgust with their behavior, but in a non-invested way.

Learn the power of physically turning your back on women.

Once you spend some time doing this, you will find that more and more women will find themselves immensely attracted to you. And you will find yourself automatically rewarding good behavior and rejecting them for bad behavior. And believe me, the vast majority will indeed be on their best behavior because they will FEEL your power.

Women need to look up to their man. That means it is essential that you convey with your aura that you couldn’t care less if they leave or stay.

Purposeful rejection of women is the golden key to obliterating your own fear of rejection, but 98% of you can’t see that. Some men can agree in principle but can’t bring themselves to actually do it.

“But Atom Smasher, won’t that make me an insufferable tyrant?”
On the contrary, it will turn you into a man who is friendly, kind, generous and fun to be around, but also a man who is not to be f’d with. It will make you a man whom women respect and admire. It will make you the man whom they go home and think about day and night, unlike the eager puppy dog men they deal with day in and day out.

Try it if you dare, and obliterate your fear of rejection. Life is paradox, friend.

Hey Atom,

Respect for that post.

On similar lines, I'm very direct in my communications. If they choose to follow, great if not, then so be it.
Recently, I was visiting my best friend and his female cousins said I was too blunt. I didn't see it as that since they were engaging with me and giggling. I was probably AMOG (lol, I hate that term but can't think of anything else) carrying conversations with everyone.
What's your take on being direct/blunt? Is it something you master along the way without offending people or something you own up to?