Real reason for incels and why it is so hard to get a decent woman today

thelambofdeth

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And yet I am far from perfect but I ve never been without women ever since I am 14. A dry spell here and there ,but that motivated me to get my bow and arrow and make some kills. If your analysis was correct o would confirm your statement,yet I feel the need to debunk it.

If you go out your house with this mindset you'll ooze defeatist mindset to the world . Re read my posts, and let it sink in...your mind is your biggest enemy, it's not women, its your mind.

You'd be surprised how much p00n you'll get once you let go of this way of thinking and live life with pure joy.

Start embracing rejection instead of fearing it. You're in your prime , this is your time to shine bro. Make it happen, starting yesterday.
That's great mate. But the fact that you've been so consistently successful with women proves you simply can't fathom how other dudes have it. I'm only speaking for myself as there's dudes with a new women every day or whatever. Your success doesn't somehow debunk my experiences and vice-versa.

Like I said before, if my case was isolated or all success required was to "try moar" sites like this wouldn't exist. Like you guys just really don't get it. There's so much more of it than "embracing rejection". And it's clear you lot will just never understand, which sure, it's great for you...but not for the people going trough the strife when the people giving "advice" have no frame of reference and just list of false platitudes.
 

sangheilios

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have you thought of going abroad to seek a wife? Check out The Philippines, Thailand or Indonesia etc. If you have Facebook, join a couple of Expat groups and do some research. Also bloggers on youtube.
I have no interest in going overseas to find a woman. I do agree with the idea that women from places like this more often than not possess more traditional values when it comes to relationships, marriage, family, etc. They also are more likely to embrace their femininity, which is something that many western men crave because of our own women lacking these qualities. However, with all of that said, I feel that looking overseas is basically just setting yourself up for failure. Most of these women are honestly looking for a ticket to the west, particularly the U.S., and for all intents and purposes would be considered "gold diggers"......something I have absolutely 0 desire to bring into my life. I feel that there is nothing wrong with a western man looking to do something like this and I totally understand why he may do so, it's just not for me.
 

SW15

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cold approaching just isn't a logistical, realistic way to meet women now. In addition to the guys every woman has at her fingertips on OLD and SM, there are the guys in her social circle, guy at work/school, guys that orbiter around her, etc. And she gets to sit back and determine who she considers the very best. As a stranger, you're supposed to somehow break that barrier with just a first impression. That is why so many cold approaches lead to flaking and fake #s. You're just some rando on the street to them, and that's not how they look to meet men anymore.

Even with all the incels and simps being excluded, the ratio is still way too lopsided. Women don't looksmatch, bc of all the validation and praise they get, they're all looking to date/feck above their level, so that leaves pretty much all men expect the very apex with no options sans fatties, turbo sloots and single moms.
Cold approaching is one of the least efficient methods of getting sex and relationships. It's not much different than cold calling on the telephone to close sales, which has been discredited as a business generating since at least the 1990s. It's a royal pain to cold approach. However, the alternative of app swiping is actually worse than cold approaching. The major advantage of app swiping over cold approaching is that in theory the women are in the market for penis. It's unknown when you cold approach in the grocery store or park if the woman is seeking new penis.

I even use best practices of setting the date in-person before I get the number and my flake rate from daygame is still higher than I would like for it to be.

My only options are cold approaching and app swiping, so I've been forced into cold approaching simply because I don't have a better choice out there. It's difficult to swoop into a co-ed sports league and get dates from that. Participating in co-ed sports leagues is a form of weak social circle game. Yes, it is easier to talk to a woman after a game in a co-ed sports league than it would be to talk to a random woman at the grocery store, mall, or a bar. Many men have participated in kickball leagues (that was huge around 2007-2015), volleyball leagues, softball leagues, soccer leagues, or any other sports league with the hope of getting their penises wet from participating. Most men failed with that.

A lot of young women, gen z and millennials, have terrible social skills and are relatively clueless during interactions with men. I feel a lot of them wouldn't know how to process a cold/random approach out in public.

I personally don't cold approach, it's just never resulted in anything but awkward experiences, but I've observed many and the trend is the women are very awkward. I've seen approaches where men are approaching women that are somewhere around their looks match, so not an obese slob approaching a hot chick, and they'd just stand there awkwardly giving one word answers.
The friends I've made since moving to Dallas all are Millennials. I've seen terrible social skills from Millennial females, even the girlfriends/wives of my male friends. One of my friends wives claimed a few years ago that she'd never been approached in a grocery store. I don't think that's true she was a 7 in her absolute prime. I bet she got approached but didn't know how to process it. I've seen how awkward other yuppie White women who are wives of my friends/acquaintances are. I have no idea how they handled cold approaches, even the approaches from my friends. Among my friends, there were some cold approach starts and some social circle starts.

In a lot of my approaches and dates, I have perceived that women are quite passive in conversations. Few women demonstrate enough interest to ask a sufficient amount of questions. A lot of my interactions over the years have felt like I was doing way too much of the conversational heavy lifting. I have felt a lot like "the clown" Roosh described in this 2014 pre-Christianity conversion article.


I've had women who were at best 5's reject date offers with me and I'm well above their SMV. Delusional and entitled biatches.

A couple years ago I had a woman point out an obese woman and tell me that was my league and what I should be going for, I'm 6'4" and 235-240ish, I've been the same size for a while now and one of the fittest guys at my gym. I don't think all women are like this but it's become incredibly common.

I left the dating market about 3 years ago, the last date I had was back in June of 2019, and it was mostly due to just one bad experience after another with nothing to show for it. As of now, I'm in a place where I honestly have no real desire to go back, mostly due to what is being discussed on here.
You represent a horrible inefficiency in the mating market. A guy who is 6'4", 230-240 lbs, with big muscles is a top guy. A top guy deserves the poontang of an elite level looking woman. The fact that the top tier women and even the slightly above average women have basically ignored you is extremely odd.
 

AttackFormation

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I've had women who were at best 5's reject date offers with me and I'm well above their SMV. Delusional and entitled biatches.
You call them delusionally entitled for not agreeing to what you think they owe you? :rofl: i think the self awareness failed there mate... No person "should" agree to serve as your utility simply because you feel they are beneath you.

You represent a horrible inefficiency in the mating market. A guy who is 6'4", 230-240 lbs, with big muscles is a top guy. A top guy deserves the poontang of an elite level looking woman. The fact that the top tier women and even the slightly above average women have basically ignored you is extremely odd.
No one "deserves" shyt from another person simply for having certain attributes, and the fact that you guys talk like this and get petulant when women reject you is pathetic. It shows what a low point the discourse can reach.
 
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EyeBRollin

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You represent a horrible inefficiency in the mating market. A guy who is 6'4", 230-240 lbs, with big muscles is a top guy. A top guy deserves the poontang of an elite level looking woman. The fact that the top tier women and even the slightly above average women have basically ignored you is extremely odd.
Most women will consider 6’4 230-240 lbs to be too big by about 20 lbs. Big muscles really work against you after a certain point.
 

kavi

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Having muscles contributes little to your smv. Optimum is just being fit, lean, good-looking with good facial attractiveness and style.
Height can probably help to some extent as being tall wont put a guy into gym-bro/bodybuilder category which is not valued by women.

Im 5'8 and kinda slim, but athletic. I consider myself very-good looking just going by my experiences with women.

In a normal social environment with high-quality girls that I would be interested in, good-looks, personality, intelligence, social skills etc I would never consider a 6'4 Jacked dude as competition, but an confident slim-to-average build guy with good style, presences, looks that is what I would see as competition or a threat.

I currently work in hospitality so I am often serving food/drinks at different types of parties and events ie corporate drinks events and I get loads of attention from the women at the parties even though I am just a lowly server guy, not counting the numerous and different early 20s girls I work with daily. I always feel I am the most high value guy around, other than possibly a few at the events who may have good jobs or social status at the higher status events.

I think the most high-smv or highest game is gonna be middle-upper class guys who have that inner confidence, good looks and social skills, either by birth or privilege.

But being a good-looking guy I can say that it is all about energy and presence. In my earlier years though I was good-looking I was lost and had little power or presence just because I didnt get it and hadnt developed the correct 'energy' yet.

Forget muscles, I think even height is not as important (atleast IRL) as is often made out.
 
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thelambofdeth

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I really don't get good-looking guys listing good looks next to dressing well or being fit. You have no control over what your face looks like...you can't just list it among arbitrary traits that people can actually alter. Like no chit high facial attractiveness is optimal but you have no power over that. Good looks are the most important physical trait(and the one you have the least control over)...more news at 11...but that's binary. If a dude is 6'4 and in great shape, THAT should be enough to compensate. That fact that it isn't demonstrates why everyone who doesn't just naturally look like Ryan Gosling is fecked...
 

BillyPilgrim

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Most women will consider 6’4 230-240 lbs to be too big by about 20 lbs. Big muscles really work against you after a certain point.
They want to feel protected, not threatened or intimidated.
 

MatureDJ

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Stop saying this. Incel is their language, not ours. It assumes any boy that doesnt have sex, including people waiting for marriage, are whats wrong with society. As if having copious amounts of sex and being an alpha is what qualifies you as "safe" in this feminist society.

F*ck that. This has nothing to do with incels. Everything to do with the media continuing to go after a certain demographic while another one continues to do daily shootings (who are definitely not incels).
How tall are you? :rolleyes:
 

MatureDJ

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107 men are born for every 100 girls, since people in the west only have 1 or 2 kids at most it just means more males. It's more likely to have a female child the more children you have. This plus migration being mostly being Males on the 18-35 range does not help things at all.

I feel like we used to throw men away in wars whenever there was political turmoil, which would have resulted in the reverse situation. I've read that genetic evidence suggests that women were twice as likely as men to have children, so that at least suggests I'm on the right track. It may have been the norm for the male population to be perpetually lowered just as a function of survivorship bias at the societal level - and that could be where these traditions come from in the first place
It's OVER for 107Cels.
 

MatureDJ

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It's hard because guys lack volume. Talking to one or two women and then giving up is like sending out a job resume to one or two places and then giving up if they don't contact you back or you get an interview but not the job.

80% of the guys on this forum issues with women could be solved by more volume
My problem would have solved by more of the cubic root of volume. :mad:
 

thelambofdeth

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Cold approaching is one of the least efficient methods of getting sex and relationships. It's not much different than cold calling on the telephone to close sales, which has been discredited as a business generating since at least the 1990s. It's a royal pain to cold approach. However, the alternative of app swiping is actually worse than cold approaching. The major advantage of app swiping over cold approaching is that in theory the women are in the market for penis. It's unknown when you cold approach in the grocery store or park if the woman is seeking new penis.

I even use best practices of setting the date in-person before I get the number and my flake rate from daygame is still higher than I would like for it to be.

My only options are cold approaching and app swiping, so I've been forced into cold approaching simply because I don't have a better choice out there. It's difficult to swoop into a co-ed sports league and get dates from that. Participating in co-ed sports leagues is a form of weak social circle game. Yes, it is easier to talk to a woman after a game in a co-ed sports league than it would be to talk to a random woman at the grocery store, mall, or a bar. Many men have participated in kickball leagues (that was huge around 2007-2015), volleyball leagues, softball leagues, soccer leagues, or any other sports league with the hope of getting their penises wet from participating. Most men failed with that.
That's exactly WHY I hate cold-approaching, theoretically. You have no idea if she's taken, or not even interested in meeting new people. It's a literal shot in the dark...you don't know a single thing about her...how realistic is it that she'll actually give a stranger her real number and NOT flake on a date when she doesn't know you from Adam? You have a better chance of winning the lottery. OLD should be the cure for that, but women there are so shallow and don't even take it seriously to the point despite knowing they're there to meet men(theoretically) they have so many options it limits the men that will have a real shot bc they'll all focusing on the same men.

Its funny bc that's the same generic, regurgitated "advice" everyone spews..."just join hobbies or leagues...do cooking classes, or yoga, or softball or fitness classes to women"...not realizing that women don't go there to meet men, and tons of men are already doing that. Most meet-ups have contingencies in place to prevent this anyway, and most of them barely have any decent women there, to begin with.

I imagine day game social events has the best opportunities bc at least there's a shared interest but the degree of difficulty is through the roof.
 

mrgoodstuff

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One of the reasons not discussed is "group think" and "group identity politics", it's much bigger in the last ten years due to social media. Also "games" and negativity and drama have spread greatly.
 

SW15

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Its funny bc that's the same generic, regurgitated "advice" everyone spews..."just join hobbies or leagues...do cooking classes, or yoga, or softball or fitness classes to women"...not realizing that women don't go there to meet men, and tons of men are already doing that. Most meet-ups have contingencies in place to prevent this anyway, and most of them barely have any decent women there, to begin with.
Most of the people who spew that advice are people who have no business giving that advice. Most of them are in established LTRs. Most of them didn’t actually do the hobbies/classes/sports leagues method. I did the sports league stuff. That shiit is difficult. Tons of men are participating in every type of co-ed sports league trying to get vagina & most aren’t getting vagina from doing it. Some established couples also do a sports league together. Compared to co-ed sports leagues, you’re usually better off doing approaches at fitness class because of the better ratios there. However, even in spite of good ratios, fitness classes are not that good for dating. I’ve gotten dates at fitness classes but it’s a tough slog.

Meetup.com groups are complete shiit. Anything affiliated in any way with Meetup.com isn’t worth the time.

I was hugely disappointed with my efforts into co-ed volleyball & kickball leagues in the past.
 

Mike32ct

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Most of the people who spew that advice are people who have no business giving that advice. Most of them are in established LTRs. Most of them didn’t actually do the hobbies/classes/sports leagues method. I did the sports league stuff. That shiit is difficult. Tons of men are participating in every type of co-ed sports league trying to get vagina & most aren’t getting vagina from doing it. Some established couples also do a sports league together. Compared to co-ed sports leagues, you’re usually better off doing approaches at fitness class because of the better ratios there. However, even in spite of good ratios, fitness classes are not that good for dating. I’ve gotten dates at fitness classes but it’s a tough slog.

Meetup.com groups are complete shiit. Anything affiliated in any way with Meetup.com isn’t worth the time.

I was hugely disappointed with my efforts into co-ed volleyball & kickball leagues in the past.
I took ballroom dance for about 5 years per the “just take a dance class bruh” advice.

Didn’t get one single date the entire time.
 

HaleyBaron

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Most of the people who spew that advice are people who have no business giving that advice. Most of them are in established LTRs. Most of them didn’t actually do the hobbies/classes/sports leagues method. I did the sports league stuff. That shiit is difficult. Tons of men are participating in every type of co-ed sports league trying to get vagina & most aren’t getting vagina from doing it. Some established couples also do a sports league together. Compared to co-ed sports leagues, you’re usually better off doing approaches at fitness class because of the better ratios there. However, even in spite of good ratios, fitness classes are not that good for dating. I’ve gotten dates at fitness classes but it’s a tough slog.

Meetup.com groups are complete shiit. Anything affiliated in any way with Meetup.com isn’t worth the time.

I was hugely disappointed with my efforts into co-ed volleyball & kickball leagues in the past.
I took ballroom dance for about 5 years per the “just take a dance class bruh” advice.

Didn’t get one single date the entire time.
I can take tango lessons and get a date out of it with ease.
 

HaleyBaron

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Cool. There are a lot of variables. Your mileage may vary.
The variable is that Im capable of doing it, which is being lost on the discussion. Most guys who do these for the women suck at game. That is the simple truth. It is not surprising they are not getting women from it cause most men who go to these to "poach women" are incompetent to begin with.
 

SW15

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That's exactly WHY I hate cold-approaching, theoretically. You have no idea if she's taken, or not even interested in meeting new people. It's a literal shot in the dark...you don't know a single thing about her...how realistic is it that she'll actually give a stranger her real number and NOT flake on a date when she doesn't know you from Adam? You have a better chance of winning the lottery. OLD should be the cure for that, but women there are so shallow and don't even take it seriously to the point despite knowing they're there to meet men(theoretically) they have so many options it limits the men that will have a real shot bc they'll all focusing on the same men.
Men in previous generations prior to the Millennials might have had more patience with the uncertainties surrounding cold approach. Millennial & Gen Z men don’t have that sort of patience. If cold approach worked amazingly well, Match.com & other similar & subsequent would never have been invented. The early stage dating websites in the 1990s were invented because cold approaching even in the 1970s-1990s was a pain in the azz, even for the Boomers & early X’ers who were not dealing with the male surpluses of the Millennial generation. There are too many men out there. The quantity of competition is intense. Quality is debatable but quantity isn’t.

Dating websites & swipe apps didn’t solve anything. There’s not a lot that can be done with skewed sex ratios other than self improve to rise above the competition. There is a male arms race right now in self improvement because of the sheer quantity of men out there. A subset of women are self improving at the gym & getting breast implants/other plastic surgeries to compete for the commitment/resources of a Top 10-20% male.

I took ballroom dance for about 5 years per the “just take a dance class bruh” advice.

Didn’t get one single date the entire time.
I’m not surprised. You have mentioned balding issues before.

I’m not sure if ballroom dancing is anything like salsa dancing. With salsa dancing, lessons are the loss leader. You’re probably not going to get shiit at the classes. With salsa, the point has been to use the classes to get skilled so you can go to a bar/club & impress attractive women at the bar/club. If you go that path of trying to impress women at venues with salsa/Latin music & dancing, I’d also recommend being Spanish fluent or nearly fluent as well. That takes a lot of effort to have both great Latin dance skills & Spanish language fluency. Native Spanish speakers/early childhood learner speakers have a huge advantage there.
 
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