Girl says "I'm down, if you're willing to buy me food lol"

[DonJuanjr]

I suppose it IS a sense of entitlement in certain respects, the same way some men feel entitled to certain things (a woman's body)?

Are you willing to pay for your platonic friends' meals every time you hang out?

 

[2Rocky]

Are you willing to pay for your platonic friends' meals every time you hang out?

If I invite...Yes...

 

[DonJuanjr]

If I invite...Yes...

What if they never asked to hang out?

 

[DonJuanjr]

^^^ You went down a different path, than where I was getting at.

My point is, if society expected for you to pay for your friends meals every time you hang out, you'd expect something in return. I think anyone would. Unless they were rich.. That's why men feel entitled to women's bodies after a financial investment. If a man isn't supposed to expect sex after financial investment on a date, then essentially the couple is just having dinner as platonic friends until the situation turns sexual.

2rockys point isn't relevant because as you said, it's still custom for men to ask out women. That's like having friends that never invite you to a meal out somewhere, and if you want to hang out with them somewhere, you are expected to pay for it.

 

[metalwater]

This sounds deranged. Most girls require some initial investment when dating. It is standard.

are men these days so poor that they worry about who is going to pay for dinner... perhaps they also ask for gas money and go dutch on the condom.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Did you read the last paragraph of my last post? If not, please do! We're on the same page about that DJ.

Then we can agree that the entitlement is justified for a man to expect a females body after financial investment.

 

[2Rocky]

What if they never asked to hang out?

Quid pro quo is not a sustainable relationship model. Platonic or Sexual....

 

[DonJuanjr]

Quid pro quo is not a sustainable relationship model. Platonic or Sexual....

Irrelevant.. You can't sit here and tell me you'd be perfectly fine always paying for friend's and family's meals in order for them to have dinner with you, knowing they would never offer to take you out for dinner.

 

[2Rocky]

Irrelevant.. You can't sit here and tell me you'd be perfectly fine always paying for friend's and family's meals in order for them to have dinner with you, knowing they would never offer to take you out for dinner.

Don't say never junior....

Sure I've had mooch friends and I don't invite them...but more often than not the people I take care of take care of me. You are not operating from a position of abundance...Find something you are abundant in to share ...Time, energy, affection, advice, a listening ear....Plenty of other folks have been generous with me in all those things without expecting them to be repaid...

 

[derby1]

the same way some men feel entitled to certain things (a woman's body)?

were told by modern society you enjoy s*x just as much......therefore it shouldn't be transactional.

for instance if you DM'd a guy this second, and said "can I come and ride you, im so horny"

he would fluff his pillows and bedspread so fast, it would be registered as a mini earthquake

 

[DonJuanjr]

I never said it wasn't, in fact to the contrary I acknowledged it was. That each gender has been conditioned to have their own expectations

My bad... I interpreted this statement:

What I have been conditioned to expect (from society) when a man asks me out. I suppose it IS a sense of entitlement in certain respects, the same way some men feel entitled to certain things (a woman's body)?

to be admitting that women's expectations for men to be paying for first dates aren't justified as is men's for female's bodies.

It's good to know that you meant females expectations for men paying for first dates isn't justified while men's expectations for females bodies is justified. I agree.

I don't know of any man who is gonna stick around paying for dates if/when that's not happening.

True, but you're disregarding the fact that it's common for most men to have a lot of first dates no second dates and no sex. A guy can easily have a dozen first dates with females that don't lead anywhere. Now he's constantly paying for first dates with nothing to show for it.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Sure I've had mooch friends and I don't invite them..

This is all that needed to be said. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[2Rocky]

This is all that needed to be said. Thanks for proving my point.

But across the board i'm well in the plus column. Enough that it was worth it....

 

[Billtx49]

But across the board i'm well in the plus column. Enough that it was worth it....

Yep, life’s not always about 1+1=2. It’s about doing what a man enjoys doing with others regarding his time and money…

 

[DonJuanjr]

If I interpreted correctly, I think my expectation of a man paying for a first date is equally as justified as a man expecting my body in some form or fashion (not necessarily full blown sex on the first date) but some show of physical attraction.

You did.. How is a woman's expectations for a man to pay for a first date justified when they're equally represented with well paying careers, and financial status? You can't say, "because a man expects my body". This is not a chicken/egg scenario. Society expecting men to pay to court females is a lot older than females equal status as men in society. Men are still expected to pay while females are equally represented in society.

 

[Striker_93]

Most girls require some initial investment when dating. It is standard.

Its standard when there attraction level is not high....

 

[Bokanovsky]

But try as I might, when a man requires ME to pay after HE asks me out, it doesn't leave me with a good feeling. I wish I could change that feeling, but I can't, it's like engrained within me to feel that way.

Oh, I undersand. But on the flip side, consider how a man might feel about the pressure to comply with an outdated and clearly unfair social convention. Especially in a situation where it's not clear whether there will be a second date. Perhaps this is why "going on a date" is a dying concept that is being replaced with "hanging out" among the younger generation. It just doesn't make any sense in the contemporary context.

 

[Bokanovsky]

The men I date are actually happy to pay. Call them chumps or whatever but there is a payoff for them too, I am not naïve enough to believe they pay from the goodness of their hearts. There IS something in it for them when they pay and I am sure I don't have to spell out what that is.

I understand that the concept of trading sex for financial resources (whether you get paid in cash or with food and drink) is not a new one. You may well be right when you imply that most women are essentially prostitutes at heart. And I don’t have a problem with that. The real problem is the bait and switch.

 

[SW15]

I learned around 2012-2013 from reading Manosphere writers like Roosh and Heartiste to avoid dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. Prior to 2013, I had some bad 1st and 2nd dates that were restaurant dinner dates.

It can be difficult to avoid dinner dates in restaurants in the early stages. As much they can be avoided, they should be avoided.

A lot of it comes down to assessing the woman in a potential dinner date scenario. A woman that is met on a dating website/swipe app is the worst candidate for an early stage dinner date but a woman met through a friend or acquaintance (social circle) is a better use of a dinner date.

Bad sign. A woman that's interested is not going to piisss you around for a month and then demand free food.

Definitely was a bad sign.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I learned around 2012-2013 from reading Manosphere writers like Roosh and Heartiste to avoid dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. Prior to 2013, I had some bad 1st and 2nd dates that were restaurant dinner dates.

It can be difficult to avoid dinner dates in restaurants in the early stages. As much they can be avoided, they should be avoided.

A lot of it comes down to assessing the woman in a potential dinner date scenario. A woman that is met on a dating website/swipe app is the worst candidate for an early stage dinner date but a woman met through a friend or acquaintance (social circle) is a better use of a dinner date.

If you can’t afford a $60 dinner, why are you dating?