She wants a second public date before coming to my place.

[EyeBRollin]

Quite the opposite. I found myself over-whelmed with ass when I started setting the frame of the dates.

I've tried the methods expressed here i.e. mandatory multiple dates before sex. Yes, you can definitely bang women doing this but I'd maintain that she would've banged you anyway on the first or second date if you guided her there. The risk with multiple dates is it actually worsens your chance - you're investing in a woman without her banging you is actually a turn-off for a woman. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but women do seem counter-intuitive when viewed through the male lens.

No. You guys want cheap sex. It doesn’t work that way. The most consistent way to get her to first dates sex is taking her to a couple different spots on the first “date.” However, you just end up spending the same amount of money. I don’t know why you guys insist that “game” will get you laid without dropping some cash.

 

[LiveYourDream]

That's not an ultimatum. You're giving her a choice. You would never say to a woman "If you don't come to my place then I'm not seeing you anymore" - that's pathetic.

You frame this as her choice (which it is). "Either you let me take you on a journey, or I wish you all the best, my darling." - do it with a cheeky smile and a positive vibe.

Your standard is your ultimatum. She sleeps with you on the first date or she’s nexted. That’s what you say you personally practice and advocate other men follow as well.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Your standard is your ultimatum. She sleeps with you on the first date or she’s nexted. That’s what you say you personally practice and advocate other men follow as well.

@Pan87 You are personally compatible with women who are more than willing to be pumped and dumped on a first date.

Some men will sleep with just about anything to get a lay.

Some men have higher standards and are willing to be a bit flexible to accommodate for that.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

@Pan87 You are personally compatible with women who are more than willing to be pumped and dumped on a first date.

Some men will sleep with just about anything to get a lay. Some men have higher standards.

Boom, exactly.

 

[Velasco]

A girl sleeping with you on the first date has nothing to do with whether or not shes high quality or not. If shes on the date with you in the first place it means shes attracted to you. From there all you need to do is make her feel like you guys are the same (cialdini's liking principle), up the sexual tension (verbal+physical escalation), and make her feel comfortable with the idea of sleeping with you on the first date (like shes not a slut for doing so). All failures to not closing girls on day 1, are usually down to on of these 3 points. From what I skimmed, it seems like he didn't do much in terms of making her feel comfortable with that, so he needs to take her out on another date outside of his home, for her do feel this way.

 

[LiveYourDream]

And your strategy, which women find infinitely slimy, is a covert contract of "If I take her on XYZ dates and invest in her then she will reward me with sex."

That is taking a very mathematical, male-logic approach to dating.

I never advocated that mindset. Nor would I.

I am a fan of spending time with people and activities I enjoy. OP enjoyed his ONE drink with this woman. I personally saw no harm in his meeting her out to enjoy another drink with her.

If sex happens, bonus. I didn’t get that OP’s whole world or his ego is revolving around whether he has sex with this woman or if it happens in 2 hours of meeting her, on a second date, or never. Thus I said I believe he’s doing just fine. I personally see no harm in his meeting her out and enjoying himself.

 

[manfrombelow]

Things are going well. Have fun on date #2.

Don't sweat her wanting to have one more date before coming to your place. That's no big deal.

I second this.

OP, you need to relax.

She is saying let's have at least another public date so I don't look like a slut before I fvck your brains out. It's only Anti-Slut Defense System. It's normal. No big deal here.

Have fun on your second date. Actually dating is more fun if you don't focus 100% of your mental energy thinking about the eventual outcome that is sex.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Each to their own. I personally really enjoy hanging out with women that I'm already banging. That's when the best dates occur, totally agenda-free where you can enjoy her company, knowing that she is highly attracted to you because you're already having sex.

I hear you. I also wish to caution you. It sounds like you use a woman having sex with you to validate yourself on some level. That it somehow gives you permission to relax in her presence more after that ‘hurdle.’ I am wondering if there is a way for you to enjoy yourself and a woman’s company from the very start, at the same level and ease? Maybe more outcome independence and less ego involvement? I don’t know. I think it would be great if you could.

 

[EyeBRollin]

If your mindset is "I must drop cash on a woman and take her on dates in order to get laid" then you are very much viewing sex as an explicit transaction. Nothing turns a woman off more than this. It's actually why women will sometimes split the bill with you, as I described in an earlier post. Women know you're trying to transact your way into her pvssy.

Tapping into a woman's emotional landscape is how you get proper, high-attraction sex. It's all about how you make her "feel". Money has nothing to do with it.

Women never split the bill with me, as I don’t allow it. I deal in reality. It is delusional to think guys will have consistent first or second sex by not taking women out on dates. I call bullshvt when I see it. You don’t have to take broads to Ruth Chris or McCormicks but they at least want the bare minimum illusion of courtship.

 

[Velasco]

When ur relaxed and go without an agenda is when you get needing to spend extra time and money you wouldnt otherwise spend had you done things right on day 1. You're relaxed yet focused on leading things towards your end goal. Something I wouldnt expect a girl to understand. As shes takes the more passive stance. The man understands hes role is to make things happen. The girl only needs to allow it to happen (shes fine without sex happening cuz she has a billion men that would happily fck her if she were to snap her fingers). After sleeping with her. The next time you guys see each other, sex is already a given (your fbuddies now). Less agenda. More relaxed.

 

[EyeBRollin]

She doesn't want an illusion of courtship - this is a transactional, medieval mating strategy.

She wants 2 things:

1. She wants to feel highly attracted to you

2. She doesn't want to feel like a slvt for having fast sex with you (so you give her plausible deniability, as discussed).

High attraction isn't built by an illusion of courtship. That's supplicating to her frame.

That is a strawman argument. You are leaving ass on the table by suggesting to the OP to next every chick that meets you at the park or whatever cheap ass first date you choose if she doesn’t sleep with you. It is terrible advice.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I suppose sex validates all of us. That's normal.

I would say that is a common perspective. I understand why.

Part of me is also inclined to note that it could also be unhealthy. It all depends on how and to what degree a person derives a sense of validation from sex.

 

[LiveYourDream]

@TheNewStyle123 I apologize. I got focused on conversations, without considering that it was all within your thread. I apologize if your thread feels overrun now. I apologize for my part. Hopefully your thread will get back on track, for you.

I am wishing you a good time on your next date and all that follows. I hope you will share how it goes for you.

 

[LiveYourDream]

It validates that you're sexually attractive to the opposite sex. I don't think that's unhealthy - it's a basic primal drive. Being successful with women is one of the most satisfying feelings a man can have. It's just nature. Every living creature on earth is driven by survival and replication (sex).

The bigger issues are with men who are not successful with women and try to rationalize it as virtuous. The rage inside builds as their "virtue" goes continually unrewarded by women. Society encourages it too because society doesn't want men to be successful with women. It breaks the matrix.

To quickly clarify, my concerns were deeper than that. Misplaced validation seeking comes in many disguises. Will leave that topic for another discussion someday.

Back to OP’s thread..,

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'd personally recommend first date should be drinks near your place at a bar. After 1 or 2 drinks and proper framing and seduction, you try to get her back to your place with a plausible excuse. If she refuses, you gauge the refusal. If it's a hard No, then you're fvcked. If she seems conflicted then you end the date amicably and then the second date is drinks at your place.

Who still does bar dates? Bars aren’t even open here. It’s a pandemic.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'm in Sydney. Bars have re-opened here. But when bars were closed it was even easier to get her back to mine under the illusion of Covid-safe drinks.

Not open where I am. There is a social contract. First “date” sex as an expectation leaves a lot of ass on the table.

 

[metalwater]

She doesn't want an illusion of courtship - this is a transactional, medieval mating strategy.

She wants 2 things:

1. She wants to feel highly attracted to you

2. She doesn't want to feel like a slvt for having fast sex with you (so you give her plausible deniability, as discussed).

High attraction isn't built by an illusion of courtship. That's supplicating to her frame.

I support this post.

OP, go on the second date. Have fun, unless you have a better offer for your time. No big deal.

For the overall discussion about girls interest level vs when she wants to or does fck. My experience for LTR from some that quickly wanted sex and others that I had to court or chase. Both types are interested in me. The ones that quickly wanted to fck, became more loyal LTR and only split because of my choice(by quick I mean same day as meeting). The ones that I chased, or waited for ended up not as good LTR and they ended up being the one to leave or do actions to cause a break. At the highest attraction level she does not feel like a slut, she feels like a winner and lucky. Will never see dual mate strat with this type, only the ones that have to be courted.

Apply red pill lense and it makes sense.

The entire topic of game maps directly into this. game is how to negotiate low interest.

If her interest level is super high, she will make it happen if you don't block her it will happen immediately or at the first opportunity. If her interest level is a little less you can game her and depending on skill and resources make it happen. gaming and courting are the exact same things. both are intentional actions to increase the interest level of the girl.

still have to be able to discern submission vs slut. slut is the one that will submit to others while transacting with you.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

@TheNewStyle123 I apologize. I got focused on conversations, without considering that it was all within your thread. I apologize if your thread feels overrun now. I apologize for my part. Hopefully your thread will get back on track, for you.

I am wishing you a good time on your next date and all that follows. I hope you will share how it goes for you.

Don’t even worry! This is all great advice on here. I’m not offended at all!

 

[derby1]

Thanks man! I’m with you. I agree, I think a girl who waits tends to usually be higher quality and an overall better lay.

No OP, please remind yourself its because she sees you as LTR

I lived with a Drug dealer back in my chaotic days, and rest assured. Non quality/Married/Quality

they all got the pants down within 1 hour

 

[manfrombelow]

No OP, please remind yourself its because she sees you as LTR

I lived with a Drug dealer back in my chaotic days, and rest assured. Non quality/Married/Quality

they all got the pants down within 1 hour

Why do men live with a woman, AT ALL???