She wants a second public date before coming to my place.

[Peaks&Valleys]

I just have lots of experience, through trial and error. I've seen what works, and what doesn't work. A woman paying for herself does not mean she's a keeper. It just means she's independent and doesn't want to feel like she owes you anything. It's neutral.

A woman is a keeper if she's highly attracted to you and is coming into your frame, and not saying things like "I don't do that on second dates".

"I don't do that on second dates". I understand what you're saying here: A friend of mine would always hear "yeah we can go (hang out in your car/back to your place) but I'm not having sex with you" and he would immediately know, from that statement, it meant they were having sex. But I don't think the OP framed it that way, I have been wrong in the past though.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Men are the gate-keepers of commitment/LTRs. All women want commitment (until they get it, then they go looking for another guy that she "wants commitment" from). The key to a woman's heart is getting her wanting you to commit to her, you not giving it to her, and getting her to anxiously give you pu$$y in the hopes that you'll commit.

A woman "wanting a relationship" means nothing on it's own. All women want this, in an abstract way. In OP's case, she's just using the "I want commitment, so you must wait for sex" ruse as a way to turn OP into dancing monkey that doesn't get laid.

In some cases yes. But "case by case", it's "easy come, easy go" IME. Yes, I can hit once and hit twice. But when it comes to relationships, give it a minute, see what develops. Personally, I respect a woman who won't give it up on the first or second date.

 

[Barrister]

I wouldn’t cancel the 2nd date. I don’t think her saying she doesn’t want to come straight to your home is her saying she won’t bang by the end of the night. I’d go and do what you did the first time (since it sounds like you did everything right). I would continue to escalate. If you aren’t getting the feel good vibes and you don’t at least get farther than date 1 then I would eject and find other women.

You’ve been at this long enough you KNOW when you are fighting an uphill battle. If you feel that way then it’s time to move on. And for the record, despite what other posters have said, I tend to find women who do not put out date #1 are higher quality than those who do. This sometimes has nothing to do with how “alpha” you are.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Exactly. Women say this so they can have plausible deniability - "I told him we wouldn't have sex if I went back to his place. And then it just happened. not my fault" - It's how women hamster their behavior. You can actually help her with this by giving her the plausible deniability yourself. It's as simple as telling her that the reason you're going back to your place is to show her your record collection, or something non-sexual.

Right right. That's MY point, but if she actually sticks to her guns, then, hey, that's a good woman, no?

 

[LiveYourDream]

If getting laid was as easy as you pretend it is, forums like this wouldn't exist.

I never said or even implied getting laid is easy for men as a whole. Nor would I.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Not everything undesirable from a woman is done by her as an insult or frame steal maneuver. Maybe her anti-slut defense nature would simply prefer to be able START the date out with a drink, rather than walking straight through his front door.

Yes. A little tease and "maybe it's going to happen" thrown in there. Even after they've prepped and groomed for you to blow their doors off. The song and dance.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Women break their own rules if they are highly attracted. The last thing you want is a woman who sticks to her guns.

Why is this? Because women ultimately want to submit to the frame of a worthy man. She doesn't want to stick to her guns, because then she's leading the relationship. Her hindbrain doesn't want this, even if her forebrain is saying "He must respect me".

It's not about rules. Women have no "rules" when it comes to men. It's all instinct.

 

[jimwho]

Also, don't give the impression that the date at your place means sex. You don't want to give her the impression that you want to bang her.

Are you kidding he played with her snatchh at a public park. On the first date!

 

[TheNewStyle123]

I wouldn’t cancel the 2nd date. I don’t think her saying she doesn’t want to come straight to your home is her saying she won’t bang by the end of the night. I’d go and do what you did the first time (since it sounds like you did everything right). I would continue to escalate. If you aren’t getting the feel good vibes and you don’t at least get farther than date 1 then I would eject and find other women.

You’ve been at this long enough you KNOW when you are fighting an uphill battle. If you feel that way then it’s time to move on. And for the record, despite what other posters have said, I tend to find women who do not put out date #1 are higher quality than those who do. This sometimes has nothing to do with how “alpha” you are.

Thanks man! I’m with you. I agree, I think a girl who waits tends to usually be higher quality and an overall better lay.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

It's far, far better getting to know a woman after you've already banged her.

There's a terrible notion that you get to know a woman before banging her. It's the reverse. The foundation for getting to know a woman is first ensuring that she's highly attracted to you - and she demonstrates her attraction through sex.

You are highly mistaken here.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

Are you kidding he played with her snatchh at a public park. On the first date!

Hahahaha there was a lot of heavy petting literally going on on a park bench (no one else around that I could see though!)

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Women certainly have rules when it comes to betas. Those rules disappear when she has "chosen" a guy.

Women have a logical mind that they use to filter betas, and this is where they make rules. Their instinctual hindbrain takes over when attraction is triggered.

Okay when it comes to "betas" yes, they all of the sudden become logical, it's like the skies opened up and God suddenly blessed them with some magical skill they never had before, agreed. But when it comes to a desirable male, it's different, that's where I feel we're not understanding each other.

 

[LiveYourDream]

If her anti-slvt shield is being triggered then she's not attracted. Women evolve this shield so they don't get inseminated by inferior men - it's part of her hypergamous filter.

You can re-frame the anti-slvt shield by making it clear that you're still assessing her suitability. If she is assuming that you want to have sex with her, then there's work to be done to put her into a headspace of uncertainty. Women lose all their tingles when she knows the man's agenda is to bang her. It's boring for her.

Your telling the OP to now insist that she come to his place for the second date but somehow play it off to her that his intention isn’t sexual is also a bit far reaching, imho. Unwilling to meet out for a drink, and only willing to meet at his place, but he is not sexually motivated? Really?

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

The mistake is getting to know a woman who you haven't banged yet. That investment is not warranted because there is no ongoing-relationship potential if she is not highly attracted. And counter to what most people think, a woman knows if she's attracted to a guy very quickly. Her assessment is made within an hour of the first date.

So a female who is highly attracted to you must have sex with you on the first or second date? My point: A FEMALE WHO IS HIGHLY ATTRACTED TO YOU BUT DOESN'T HAVE SEX WITH YOU, is relationship material.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

" a highly-attracted woman wants is to know that you don't see her as an easy slvt"

Why is that?

Would you prefer her to have sex on demand with any man she finds attractive?

 

[EyeBRollin]

Some posts here are delusional. Most women aren’t coming to your place for date #2. Take the broad on another date then ask again for date #3.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Never give ultimatums.

Says the man who advises that women be nexted unless they sleep with a man on the first date. But virgins might get more than one date to put out.

You are welcome to your expectations @Pan87. I personally think they are a bit extreme.

 

[EyeBRollin]

That's not an ultimatum. You're giving her a choice. You would never say to a woman "If you don't come to my place then I'm not seeing you anymore" - that's pathetic.

You frame this as her choice (which it is). "Either you let me take you on a journey, or I wish you all the best, my darling." - do it with a cheeky smile and a positive vibe.

That's leaving a ton of ass on the table

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

This is very simple.

Women don't want Men to see her as "easy" because men don't find promiscuous women attractive, so women have evolved to hide their nature from men.

Men don't find promiscuous women attractive because it's a threat to paternity assurance, in evolution-speak. The existential threat for men is raising another man's children and wasting his resources on another man's offspring. The existential threat for women is being left alone to fend for herself, while impregnated.

Women would prefer a man to think she is highly-selective and chastened because a man is more likely to invest his resources into her.

These are all primitive forces that lurk behind the forebrain.

I'm on the notion that modern feminists should be burned at the stake, no? Well... what if modern women don't want to act like feminists and give up on the first date?

 

[TheProspect]

Mostly a good result. Not perfect, but good.

I second this.

There's a lot of extreme black and white thinking going on in this thread, OP I recommend taking it with a grain of salt.