I built it, they didn't come

[BeExcellent]

The correct question is how do you create the right vibe...

And the answer is going to pull you right out of your comfort zone and introversion and process driven existence and make you Hella uncomfortable...

You are smart as hell. You already know this. But it’s not what you want to hear because it’s not easy for you to solve.

Growth, real growth is never easy. You correct your attitude and therefore your vibe and you’ll completely change your results.

Now go reread the last part of my first post in your thread. The solution is sitting there.

Go do it.

Cheers

 

[allergictobs]

The correct question is how do you create the right vibe...

And the answer is going to pull you right out of your comfort zone and introversion and process driven existence and make you Hella uncomfortable...

You are smart as hell. You already know this. But it’s not what you want to hear because it’s not easy for you to solve.

Growth, real growth is never easy. You correct your attitude and therefore your vibe and you’ll completely change your results.

Now go reread the last part of my first post in your thread. The solution is sitting there.

Go do it.

Cheers

Thanks, you are definitely analyzing my situation correctly.

I've kind of known what the solution would be. What I'm not sure about and what even my first post was circling around - is it going to be worth it? This is where what you posted just a moment ago hits home:

You don’t like feeling as though you are wasting your time on such things that may go nowhere and feel frivolous while taking up your valuable time.

This here, in my view, is absolutely the biggest obstacle I face. I mentioned in some previous post that I view many issues through a cost-benefit analysis. Once I've determined that something is going to be largely a waste of time, I have a really difficult time getting to it.


You see, even if I managed to correct course and meet more women, at the age of 36, with a set of routines and a certain lifestyle, I strongly believe that I'm not going to find much happiness through social interactions with women. You are right about escorts and being process driven - I only value the outcome. Do you think it is possible to change that? Because I think it is a very deep part of someone's personality, probably determined before birth.

Since I don't place much value on social interactions, only on the end result (having sex), am I going to be more happy getting to the outcome directly (banging escorts) or going through all kinds of hoops to get into a relationship with someone I may not even be that into?

 

[BeExcellent]

Thanks, you are definitely analyzing my situation correctly.

I've kind of known what the solution would be. What I'm not sure about and what even my first post was circling around - is it going to be worth it? This is where what you posted just a moment ago hits home:

You don’t like feeling as though you are wasting your time on such things that may go nowhere and feel frivolous while taking up your valuable time.

This here, in my view, is absolutely the biggest obstacle I face. I mentioned in some previous post that I view many issues through a cost-benefit analysis. Once I've determined that something is going to be largely a waste of time, I have a really difficult time getting to it.


You see, even if I managed to correct course and meet more women, at the age of 36, with a set of routines and a certain lifestyle, I strongly believe that I'm not going to find much happiness through social interactions with women. You are right about escorts and being process driven - I only value the outcome. Do you think it is possible to change that? Because I think it is a very deep part of someone's personality, probably determined before birth.

Let me be really straightforward:
Since I don't place much value on social interactions, only on the end result (having sex), the question is, am I going to be more happy getting to the outcome directly (banging escorts) or going through all kinds of hoops to get into a relationship with someone I may not even be that into?

This is a key question. I don't know the answer.

The before birth personality thing is BS. It’s an excuse you are hiding behind. So let’s get that on the table straight away.

You ask is it worth it? It can be.

You compare yourself to other friends who you see settled in relationships to women you categorize as high quality. This suggests to me that observationally you see that what you yourself have never experienced IS possible. It DOES exist. So how come these guys have it, but you do not?

Touchy question to be sure. You have a growth curve to go through in this area. A growth curve with an outcome you cannot be assured of. Utterly annoying. But necessary.

Why not embrace it. The value lies in the journey, not the destination. Surely you have read The Odyssey?

This is why what I’m suggesting you do it. Chill out, let it ride & see what happens. You’re going to feel out of sorts since this is outside your usual competency (and thus you have avoided it to this point).

It doesn’t matter about 50% of other people blah blah blah. I assure that 100% of anyone else CANNOT live your life for you. Therefore nothing matters because nobody is you except you. Look. We all have our own special & unique crap we carry around and pull out and *think* about examining once in a while. That’s what this thread is. We are a safe anonymous group of who knows who on the internet right? We have no bearing on your life and so we are safe. Which is cool.

But to sort your actual life out you will have to do things in your real life that WILL make you uncomfortable. And help you sort this out.

 

[HyenaPrince]

The before birth personality thing is BS. It’s an excuse you are hiding behind. So let’s get that on the table straight away.

It's definitely not BS. Your genetics account for up to 50% of your personality. If your brain is wired in a certain way or shows a different thickness or volume, your personality will differ from that of another person. Nature and nurture are both important to our personality and intelligence development. It's definitely essential to raise and educate a human properly. But you can only get a person so far until their genetics start limiting them.

 

[BeExcellent]

It's definitely not BS. Your genetics account for up to 50% of your personality. If your brain is wired in a certain way or shows a different thickness or volume, your personality will differ from that of another person. Nature and nurture are both important to our personality and intelligence development. It's definitely essential to raise and educate a human properly. But you can only get a person so far until their genetics start limiting them.

Agree but OP is attributing his social ineptness too much to this. Unless he is full on Aspberger’s or some such. But if that were true he wouldn’t have the question he posed in the first place.

That’s why it’s an excuse.

 

[HyenaPrince]

Agree but OP is attributing his social ineptness too much to this. Unless he is full on Aspberger’s or some such. But if that were true he wouldn’t have the question he posed in the first place.

That’s why it’s an excuse.

Fair enough.

 

[zekko]

Extreme lifestyle, very much a lone wolf type of guy.

I think this explains your whole problem right here. You're a passionate, driven guy. A lot of PUA types will tell you be passionate, build your life, and women will come out of the woodwork. But life isn't that simple. You're following your own course, but there aren't many women on that course. The simple answer would be to build up your social life. The problem is that it doesn't sound like this is something you actually want, your heart wouldn't be in it. I can understand this, because I've lost a lot of motivation to be social as I've gotten older, I'm a natural introvert. When I was younger I pushed myself because I wanted to build my social skills, but now I really don't care. So you'd have to figure out if it would be worth it to you or not.

Having said that, I kind of like @CAPSLOCK BANDIT's idea about the travel partner, if you have the free time.

 

[forcerecon01]

I'm 40 going on 41 next month. I'm in the same boat you are but I really don't care. I'm not high status by any means but I get a nice pension from the military,rent an apartment and have my own car. I don't have to work for anybody. As stormrider put it women aren't **** and thats the truth. I say travel abroad and see life outside of your bubble. You will find that there is nothing wrong at all with you , just your environment bs. Why date women most want sex right away even. Invite the woman to your house and escalate towards sex most women will fu*ck you right there. As I said I think you need to travel more go to France, Thailand, other places geared towards real romance.

 

[fastlife]

Then how do "netflix and chill" invitations happen?

When "netflix and chill" was still a thing in 2012/2013, it was a socially savvy euphemism and Tinder was a hookup app--so you have girls who are self-selected for being horny choosing guys based mostly off of looks and the whole experience was novel and trendy. But even then, it was a low-probability opener. You'd still need to vibe and joke for at least a few messages before tossing that out there. Now, it's more of a meme and I wouldn't use it unless I was trying to be ironic or over-the-top cheesy player.

Girls are down for hookups, but they need to be attracted to you first and not feel like you're just using them for sex. And if you're a 36 y/o guy trying to game girls in their 20s, even if they're attracted to you, you're going to need a little more rapport since you're probably not who she pictures when she closes her eyes when she goes to sleep at night and there's more risk of her being judged by her peers. You also have to be able to disqualify yourself as a provider--but that looks less like, "I just want to fvck you and never take you out" and more like "I don't know, I'm a free spirit and I just feel trapped in relationships and I don't want to promise anything I can't deliver." Same message but very different delivery. For reference see James Franco getting put on blast by some very basic looking chick for failing to nail the delivery lol.

 

[allergictobs]

The simple answer would be to build up your social life. The problem is that it doesn't sound like this is something you actually want, your heart wouldn't be in it.

Yes, this is very much the essence of the problem. I think I'm simply too focused on the outcome of social interactions, as BeExcellent brought up.

I've thought about this quite a bit since yesterday, and I realized that there are exceptions, situations where I do actually enjoy social interaction without any outcome in mind. This happens with certain people that I connect well on some deeper, instinctual level. I don't even need to know them very well, the connection can be there almost instantly. In those cases, I do enjoy just talking or spending time with them.

Having said that, I kind of like @CAPSLOCK BANDIT's idea about the travel partner, if you have the free time.

It is an interesting idea, and I may very well try it.

 

[allergictobs]

Many big city life people have this problem. It’s because people were meant to live in small to medium sized clusters where things are more personable. I guarantee you if the OP was in some SEA town, he’d have a large sphere of influence throughout that town and many women lining up to date him without him having to change his core personality of being a go getter.

Big cities are not conducive to dating. Online dating and night clubs are society’s failed attempt to create chemistry.

You need proximity, shared interests, and mutual attraction for that chemistry thing to cook itself up. This happens so easily in a person’s youth (high school, college) but it disappears after that.

This is an excellent point. For the same reason, workplaces have, until recently, been good places for men and women to meet (these days, of course, you risk losing your job if you approach the wrong person).

I'm definitely not a big city person, I'm just there because of work (as are most other people). I will most certainly move to a smaller community once I get enough of office life.

 

[Mike32ct]

I've thought about this quite a bit since yesterday, and I realized that there are exceptions, situations where I do actually enjoy social interaction without any outcome in mind. This happens with certain people that I connect well on some deeper, instinctual level. I don't even need to know them very well, the connection can be there almost instantly. In those cases, I do enjoy just talking or spending time with them.

Exactly. You can still use some of the introvert's natural strengths. We like deeper conversations with people we "click" with. I also much prefer one-on-one conversations, which I think is also an introvert strength/preference.

Wit, sarcasm, puns, and callback humor (if you naturally have a good memory) are also good for brainy guys.

 

[Kotaix]

I'm more or less in the same situation you are. I'm 5'7", balding (albeit very slowly, widow's peak) and 42.

I have never been much for chasing women or smashing poon, and I'm not a party animal. I also lost my interest in trying to date because most women are just not as fun. The only real difference between us that I can see is that my circle of friends is heavily skewed towards women and not men, this comes from my blue pilled, male feminist days. But those days are gone, and I went thru a red pill rage phase where I wasn't fit company for a woman.

I decided to live for myself at one point early in 2019. Hit the gym, have fun with friends and date casually as the options came, which were few. I've had far more lucky dating in my 40s than I ever did when I was younger.

I did recently find a woman who I have very much in common with, and we have an excellent relationship, but it pretty much came out of the blue. We had great chemistry as friends and a lot of common interests. The interesting side note is that she's a pretty staunch feminist. I generally hate feminism at this point, but for some reason, things just work between us because she's not some insane bigoted product of modern feminism.

The hard truths I see in you:

You are uncompromising: It is NOT possible to have a relationship with anyone if you aren't able to give up some measure of control and at least play along with a woman's likes and dislikes. It takes two to tango. Men and women cannot truly see eye to eye, you can either accept this or you can be alone. If she really likes you, she will make an effort to engage in the things that you like as well, but it's unrealistic and selfish to expect that a woman will bend completely your likes and let you do as you please. You have to pick and choose your battles. This isn't just true of women, it's true of life.

You have an agenda when it comes to women (and possibly all people): You are also expecting to get something out of a woman, some kind of fulfillment and/or social validation. You can't have this in a relationship and expect it to work. If you give of yourself and expect to get anything in return then you have the wrong mentality.

You might be egotistical: My outlook on life improved greatly when I started looking into Taoism, Stoicism and Buddhism as a way to understand how the universe works, and to stop being so self-centered. Don't expect to be able to share or explore these ideas with women.

And a suggestion: pick up dancing. it's a great way to get to know women intimately in a socially acceptable way.

 

[redskinsfan92]

1. You're boring.

2. The market sucks, most guys are doing worse now(pre Covid) than they did pre 2015 regardless of improvement.

3. I recommend traveling and meeting people that way.

How is he boring?

 

[redskinsfan92]

Sh1t, I was starting to think it was just me.

 

[redskinsfan92]

My honest thought is this. Why not just f some escort. Cheaper in the end.

Rethought this: You want sex with genuine desire. Not transactional sex. Understandable.

 

[allergictobs]

My honest thought is this. Why not just f some escort. Cheaper in the end.

I have (mentioned about it in this thread too). The big question is, should I completely give up trying to date women and make escorts a permanent habit.

Like I've said many times in this thread, I'm not looking for companionship or love. Sex is the main goal for me, at least for now, and I see no problem with escorts. However, there is one important thing that an escort cannot offer: genuine submission based on desire.

I keep referring to the one LTR I had in my 20s, because it really was a very good relationship. She was very submissive to me in every way, and that's what I miss the most. I can never experience that with escorts.

 

[zekko]

For reference see James Franco getting put on blast by some very basic looking chick for failing to nail the delivery lol.

My favorite part in that whole bit is where he asks "What is your #?", and she says "What do you mean #?".

I guess this at least casts some doubt on those gay rumors about him.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

I have (mentioned about it in this thread too). The big question is, should I completely give up trying to date women and make escorts a permanent habit.

Like I've said many times in this thread, I'm not looking for companionship or love. Sex is the main goal for me, at least for now, and I see no problem with escorts. However, there is one important thing that an escort cannot offer: genuine submission based on desire.

I keep referring to the one LTR I had in my 20s, because it really was a very good relationship. She was very submissive to me in every way, and that's what I miss the most. I can never experience that with escorts.

What I read here is that "sex is the main goal for me...."

I didn't read " 'genuine submissive sex based on true desire' is the main goal for me"
You only stated that type of sex is important. You didn't state it is the main goal.

A little bit negative in your reasoning you could never experience that importance with escorts.
Why not? Anything may happen, anything is possible.

Stick to your main goal and maybe try sharing all these thoughts in this thread with one of the escorts you're hardest for and that you seem to keep hiring over and over.
Enough time spent together and two people may very well start genuinely desiring each other. Its my impression escorts don't work as escorts their whole lives anyways.

Look after your needs and goals first.

 

[redskinsfan92]

I have (mentioned about it in this thread too). The big question is, should I completely give up trying to date women and make escorts a permanent habit.

Like I've said many times in this thread, I'm not looking for companionship or love. Sex is the main goal for me, at least for now, and I see no problem with escorts. However, there is one important thing that an escort cannot offer: genuine submission based on desire.

I keep referring to the one LTR I had in my 20s, because it really was a very good relationship. She was very submissive to me in every way, and that's what I miss the most. I can never experience that with escorts.

Ok, so I'm correct on the geniune desire from her. Yeah, I understand that.