For those who deny the importance of Looks

[malz1]

A humorous reminder of how I knew absolutely everything when I was around 30.

Let me ask you a question. Can a woman date down? Can a well-rounded 9 date down to a 6 or 7? The answer is that they cannot. Even if just for the social implications, let alone attraction.

Men have the ability to mold women’s perceptions. Women are malleable. I’ve done it all my life. My girlfriends have consistently been raw beauties, 9s to use the shorthand we use. That’s not because I was physically a 9. It’s because I was able to leverage other equally important traits to my advantage.

My point to the men here who have an ear is that we don’t need to ruminate about and fixate on looks the way women do. Women evaluate the entire package that a man brings to the table, not just looks. Looks is only one part of the whole. Where a man lacks in one area, he can make up for it in another. That is part of the power of being a man. Not many men understand this. Certainly you don’t. But some do, and these are the average to fairly good-looking men who know how to cast their spell on women who are far above average.

I clearly focused on money and status too. Other traits that don't support either 3 features (lms) are mostly negligible. That's not to say average guys can't get women- they can- but those women have most likely settled. And I'm not speaking out of terms but from countless online reports, friends, studies (some more or less credible) and years of personal but critical observations. Many others have made the exact same conclusions from a wide body of information. So in a way you could loosely say that the results have been reproducible.

EDIT: In fact, such observations are so frequent and obvious in society that it's commonly reverberated; "Women just love money", "attract them with nice cars", "Being famous will get you laid", "Male models get boatloads of pvsy bro" "If I looked like George Clooney women would be all over me" etc etc. Whereas bluepill ideology is taught, these lms mentions are observed.

And a recent example from our very own Sosuave forum :

A typical casual example that can be found.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Lol really. Hail O King we wont debate you. Your word is spoken.



No one said that? Did i say that?
so us "retards" are not saying that physique is not important but i assure your "non debatable" position that i know and have known a great many puzzy slayers that didnt workout at all.
It helps for those that are not born "cut".
There is very very few ppl in this forum that 100% deny that looks are not important to some degree.
You are extreme in your view and unrealistic.

Here you go explain this one. Real life right now case in point. Lets post some real shyt instead of this hollywood i wanna be crap.
A Co worker of mine.
37 years old. Plays hockey, decent job nice pad.
5"8 maybe? 175 max. Not cut but not fat.
Not your run of the mill model. Not ugly either.
Spinning 2 plates. 36 yr old government manager and a 29 yr old 6'1" girl who is TALLER then him wants to have 3way with other women and share him. Openly kinky.
Im quite sure he's not carrying the physique to be courting a 10 inch dik. And from what i know they are not dumpster girls.

So genius boy is it his LMS getting him the puzz or his frame and game?
Which one Ye old non debatable master?

Taking one example of someone they know to prove a point is usually what women do.

"hey eating choccolate every night doesnt make you fat, explain how my friend brenda is skinny".

Mate its ok, really I explained what I have to, you can see from the feedbacks from other users if Im more or the less correct or Im insane.

I really dont understand whats so hard to understand in the fact that being good looking basically turns women on per se.

 

[zekko]

Ever notice that when women admire an attractive male, there's a kind of mass hysteria aspect to it? Almost like a collective orgasm. Whereas with men admiring women, it's more of an individual thing. Hey I like her legs, or she has a cute face type of thing. We don't all jump up and down together when we see a hot chick.

Part of this is the female tendency for group-think, which is why social proof is a thing. Another part is that truly attractive men are fairly rare. As compared with attractive women - most women can be attractive as long as they aren't fat.

My point to the men here who have an ear is that we don’t need to ruminate about and fixate on looks the way women do. Women evaluate the entire package that a man brings to the table, not just looks. Looks is only one part of the whole. Where a man lacks in one area, he can make up for it in another. That is part of the power of being a man. Not many men understand this. Certainly you don’t. But some do, and these are the average to fairly good-looking men who know how to cast their spell on women who are far above average.

That's true. Looks are a factor, and I think they're a bigger factor today than when I was growing up. But there is most definitely a lot more to being a man than simply looks.

 

[darksprezzatura]

You sound like a textbook keyboard jockey. "I fvcked new girls every week when i was obese and ugly bro, you just aint sh1t. Step your game up" yea sure...

Guess you won't believe I used to sleep with two different girls in a 24 hour time frame with a fat belly and a neckbeard. And I've done that many times with different sets of women.

Never had the energy to do that with three women. Maybe I will after the lockdown.

 

[AttackFormation]

Guess you won't believe I used to sleep with two different girls in a 24 hour time frame with a fat belly and a neckbeard. And I've done that many times with different sets of women.

Never had the energy to do that with three women. Maybe I will after the lockdown.

Even if you really did mind control women to want sex with you with your magical powers it doesn't matter, because the overall trend is that PUA has been rejected. If it worked like you say for men as a whole then its popularity wouldve grown and spread through society like early christianity, not collapsed and become a mocked trope that modern dating coaches take some care to distance themselves from.

Unless of course youll say you could do it because of your unique pimp daddy personality that those PUA tadpoles just cant reproduce, which then defeats your "just step your game up bro" admonition anyway, assuming you are both truthful and that you werent buying cheap wh0res or going out every night in the Canary Islands or greek islands and sweeping the area clean for black out drunk girls.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Ever notice that when women admire an attractive male, there's a kind of mass hysteria aspect to it? Almost like a collective orgasm. Whereas with men admiring women, it's more of an individual thing. Hey I like her legs, or she has a cute face type of thing. We don't all jump up and down together when we see a hot chick.

Part of this is the female tendency for group-think, which is why social proof is a thing. Another part is that truly attractive men are fairly rare. As compared with attractive women - most women can be attractive as long as they aren't fat.


That's true. Looks are a factor, and I think they're a bigger factor today than when I was growing up. But there is most definitely a lot more to being a man than simply looks.

Yes, I’ve noticed that too. They feel social safety in “lusting“ when they’re in a group. It’s like a spark in dry tinder in a group setting.

I find that contrary to popular belief, the upper 2% of women are less into looks and more into the quality and dominance of a man, and there exists a proportional trickle-down effect, all the way down to the lowly bar skanks, for whom male looks are everything. It makes perfect sense. Higher quality women = broader vision.

 

[malz1]

Yes, I’ve noticed that too. They feel social safety in “lusting“ when they’re in a group. It’s like a spark in dry tinder in a group setting.

I find that contrary to popular belief, the upper 2% of women are less into looks and more into the quality and dominance of a man, and there exists a proportional trickle-down effect, all the way down to the lowly bar skanks, for whom male looks are everything. It makes perfect sense. Higher quality women = broader vision.

I agree on this. Being that dominance plays into status then it is as such that someone upped their stats highly in the status category of lms. Ultimately looks is just an indicator of status and dominance is the more intimate factor to status for which their distinctions often blur. With that said, the more categories one excels in, the better they'll do.

 

[metalwater]

Don’t waste your life in angst about looks. Women aren’t that picky. Looks matter to a reasonable degree, but women perceive men as a total package, not looks alone. I can tell you straight out that I’m with a solid 9, and I’m no 9. She tells me virtually every single day that I’m “beautiful”, because the colors that are on my pallet all combine into a beautiful painting for her. I look okay, but other aspects of my personality and the way I present myself combine to ramp me up to a 9 in her eyes.

You present(write) well, consistently. Could be a 9 (depending on definition of that). Do you think it is possible that how your woman treats you is part of what moves you up too 9. As in, behind every good man is a good woman. Meaning if something went wrong with her and you, do you become a 6 or 7 in your own eyes and at the same time you still see her as 9. No wish for that to happen, just a question about understanding frame. Does she think other women see you as a 9? Do you think that?

In loose context, I see looks as very important to female group think. If woman is in the group think looks and status are the most important and all the other is without value. If we can in some way segment or they do it themselves away from the group think then other values can trump those. In the group think, status and looks are everything. Is it like that?

 

[darksprezzatura]

Even if you really did mind control women to want sex with you with your magical powers it doesn't matter, because the overall trend is that PUA has been rejected. If it worked like you say for men as a whole then its popularity wouldve grown and spread through society like early christianity, not collapsed and become a mocked trope that modern dating coaches take some care to distance themselves from.

Unless of course youll say you could do it because of your unique pimp daddy personality that those PUA tadpoles just cant reproduce, which then defeats your "just step your game up bro" admonition anyway, assuming you are both truthful and that you werent buying cheap wh0res or going out every night in the Canary Islands or greek islands and sweeping the area clean for black out drunk girls.

You're assuming lots of things. Having some "PUA" skills like roleplaying, humour, negs, triggering imagination, palm reading and all the fun stuff, coming from a place of non neediness and just giggles ADDS to your value.

Game is not a set of magical lines I say and get laid.

It's a mindset. You get what you deserve.

My definition of game is:

If I find a woman attractive, I approach her. I say and do stuff with her that I like. Her interest in me is either there or not.

I don't TRY to get her interested by impressing her.

Many times I get flat out rejected, and I quickly cover my losses and move on.

She has to be willing to comply to what I say, and "WANT" to continue being around me.

If she doesn't show interest back, I back out.

Match a woman's interest level and keep it slightly lesser.

Spinning more than one woman in my rotation helps too.

It rarely matters what I say.

My experience dictates that looks will help weaker game and get your foot in the door but numbers game and a good mindset trumps everything.

Have the balls to go out and GET WHAT YOU WANT AND DESERVE.

That's what I mean by step game up.

 

[malz1]

You present(write) well, consistently. Could be a 9 (depending on definition of that). Do you think it is possible that how your woman treats you is part of what moves you up too 9. As in, behind every good man is a good woman. Meaning if something went wrong with her and you, do you become a 6 or 7 in your own eyes and at the same time you still see her as 9. No wish for that to happen, just a question about understanding frame. Does she think other women see you as a 9? Do you think that?

In loose context, I see looks as very important to female group think. If woman is in the group think looks and status are the most important and all the other is without value. If we can in some way segment or they do it themselves away from the group think then other values can trump those. In the group think, status and looks are everything. Is it like that?

In case you haven't read behind the lines the guy is lying about dating 9's. I went along his story to point flaws in his logic for the ppl here but there's just too much naivete in what he's saying. He is almost 100% lying and I love it. He's just regurgitating old platitudes n pua advice in vague terms. And he seems to be a 40+ year old male which makes his dating of 9's even more silly. No average guy in his 40's is ever dating "9's". Have some common sense. For this guy to have had the balls to step toe to toe w/ someone who's actually in the dating community of 9's and 8's was a ridiculous feat in itself.

As for you, accept that you will never get a 9 or 8 unless your money is stacked or you become a high status man. The world isn't that easy. Some ppl thrive while others elsewhere starve. I've noticed that ppl cling on to this traditional idea of game (big boy pants on, personality, shower, decent attire) because they can't accept the idea of not getting a high quality female.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

Different looks get different reactions and generally most men react the same.

My biggest block in transforming back down to a more sexually desirable weight is the unwanted attention in environments where that type of attention is distracting. To me and others.
The look I have now is 'everybody's reliable chubby sister' and it has kept me consistently employed in labour jobs.
Office jobs are something I have no interest or experience in. The workers in that environment must have to use desirability (high smv) in order to smoothly interact with people.
I only have to interact with myself and tools and machines with limited communication. My brawn and steadfast reliability and ability to replicate consistent quality is way more important than my attractiveness.
I think I can only transform into the female version of the male figure competitor. Not bodybuilder, but still muscled and athletic. There was my Dad's nurse that's on the city women's football team that I admired. Like her body. It was distracting, but admirable more than desirable. If that makes sense. But I'm speaking from a different pov so we'll see.

 

[metalwater]

In case you haven't read behind the lines the guy is lying about dating 9's. I went along his story to point flaws in his logic for the ppl here but there's just too much naivete in what he's saying. He is almost 100% lying and I love it. He's just regurgitating old platitudes n pua advice in vague terms. And he seems to be a 40+ year old male which makes his dating of 9's even more silly. No average guy in his 40's is ever dating "9's". Have some common sense. For this guy to have had the balls to step toe to toe w/ someone who's actually in the dating community of 9's and 8's was a ridiculous feat in itself.

I try to perceive what I can but am still learning. Atom Smash, seems to give thoughtful advice to other men and seems to make decent moderator decisions. I am interested in his perceptions of the matter. He claimed to be HAPPY with his situation. I am NOT a 9 on a global scale, but locally... yes, even an 11... Then there is the whole... what is a female 9. We can take a group of 8,910 and sort them differently depending on our taste. This guy has what HE thinks is a 9 and HE thinks SHE thinks HE is a 9. GOLDEN.... I would love to be in that situation..

 

[Medina]

It amazes me the guys who say looks aren't important are the same ones who hit the gym every day to LOOK better (lol). Are you gonna give the same excuse that females give? That you "do it for yourself"

If money and status mattered then why isn't every Lawyer/Manager/Stock Broker swimming in pvssy? They're not. But Billy the Badboy gardener who cuts grass for minimum wage is

 

[malz1]

Different looks get different reactions and generally most men react the same.

My biggest block in transforming back down to a more sexually desirable weight is the unwanted attention in environments where that type of attention is distracting. To me and others.

This is just something you'll get used to working along side with. You'll eventually find it fun giving you more energy to get you through the day. Of course keep things light and professional. The main probs you might encounter though are from aggressive bosses that had received no reciprocated affection back. You'll have to figure that one out. Or maybe the metoo movement has changed things so that they're more cautious? I know males were affected but females still seemed to be in full force. My last female bosses gave me a hardtime because they thought I didn't "care about them". Lmao.

Funny story. One of the creepiest exp's I had to get over was that after catching someone staring at me while I was eating, I'd go back to eating but could just feel their eyes continue to watch me...eat. It felt soo weirrrd like you're getting studied.

 

[malz1]

I try to perceive what I can but am still learning. Atom Smash, seems to give thoughtful advice to other men and seems to make decent moderator decisions. I am interested in his perceptions of the matter. He claimed to be HAPPY with his situation. I am NOT a 9 on a global scale, but locally... yes, even an 11... Then there is the whole... what is a female 9. We can take a group of 8,910 and sort them differently depending on our taste. This guy has what HE thinks is a 9 and HE thinks SHE thinks HE is a 9. GOLDEN.... I would love to be in that situation..

Fair enough. Even though my criticisms may have seemed harsh, I don't really have anything against the guy. We can just agree to disagree at this point.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Nice spin game.

I don't think anyone is denying looking "sharp" attracts women. Ofcourse it does.
Using real life is paramount because the vast majority of guys come from normal life. Not to say they are not living good lives.
You cant compare model type hollywood life to what most guys will encounter.
Most fame locally will be a local TV personality, politician or a successful band etc etc etc.
Its the same as comparing most guys sexuall experience with porn movies when the reality is most men last 5-7 minutes.
Thats "her" reality.
Our reality on is subject is exactly what @Atom Smasher posted. A bit of work on fashion etc etc. Including muscle can jump you ahead. Ofcourse.
But the level that this has gone to plastic surgery and shyt is a bit nutty.

@cola Had a nice post about a while back about playing with your circle and improve on that.
Its an action statement for the words. "Stop comparing yourself to others" that doesn't mean to ignore social dynamics etc etc (for you guys who like to go over board). It means to know you are doing the best you can with the toolbox you have.
I Think the point is clear. You will drive yourself nuts with this looks thing. Think of it as the heart of the rotten voice in your head.
The negative voice will go from "your ugly" while in the mirror to "you look funny to them" when your socializing.
Always look look look in instead of looking outward. My 02

No spin at all, personal science is not relevant especially when there are no evidences...hoped it was not necessary to explain to other men.

Regaring your question, its a correct one so lets try to take away the celebrity factor.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsos.171790

Apparently women find universally attractive men who share certain physical features, do you believe you can make your shoulder broader with enough confidence? if so please let me now how, I would like to move to XL tshirt size.

Btw if you wanna see the data you will find everything bottom page...as if we needed money spent to find out that women are turned on for jacked guys.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1474704919852918#

Btw when they said women loved masculine features only cause they are ovulating...nevermind they do it in each and any case as if we needed money spent on studies to know that women always find masculine faces attractive....hey dont tell woody allen please he still thinks its about games and jokes.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797618760197

But hey its not only about women, looks only help you to get laid but body features make no difference in other feedbacks all right?

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[Atom Smasher]

I’ve been preaching for years that unlike how it is for women, it is utterly impossible for men to be universally attractive. Virtually all women are attracted to only a subset of men (archetypes as @stormrider puts it). Some women find muscular guys attractive, some leaner, more generally fit guys, and there are even many who are attracted to biker-types with beer bellies.

That’s why I say that men should identify their ideal type(s) and run with it.

When I personally talk about the number rating system that we generally use for women, it is shorthand as it’s difficult to identify and linguistically awkward to succinctly discuss archetypes.

Universal attraction for men is a myth. Run with your identified type and you’ll have no problem with an abundance of women. It’s almost effortless once you do this. When you do, you also become highly tuned into women’s IOIs, which so many men are normally blind to.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Looks do matter but it's not what most guys think it is. Take the typical wannabe prettyboy who goes out to buy a moisturizer, bleaches his hair, and ends up looking feminine. Or the chiseled guy who goes to the gym and gains 25 lbs of muscle and ends up with a pudgy looking face, And he works in an office. He's an office chode with muscles and looks like a poser. I know both types of guys. They heard somewhere that looks matter and went out and tried to apply a one size fits all approach only to ruin what was already naturally attractive about them.

Imagine if George Clooney thought to himself "I need to go to the gym and bulk up and gain 25 lbs of muscle and eat 6 times a day." He'd end up looking like a fvcking doofus. Or maybe he's playing a gym bro for a movie or something. But he won't look his natural best.

Looks matter. But you have to figure out what "look" looks best on you. It's not a one size fits all thing. That's why women have "types."

Women don't judge men on a 1-9 scale. They judge men based on archetype.

The brooding mysterious bad boy who's 160 lbs soaking wet with high cheek bones/cut jawline. The buff masculine alpha guy who can kick anyone's a$$. Both of these guys are good looking to different women, but they couldn't be further apart in terms of looks. Of course, you also have your Justin Bieber dweeby teen girl idol archetype.

David Beckham is good looking to women. But so is Vin Diesel. And they are not even the same type of "good looking."

As for myself, my best look is when I have extremely low body fat, not when I look like a body builder super hero. I've figured out what "look" maximizes my charm and haven't looked back....as I've said many posts ago. The key is to figure out what works for you (because you are a certain type), not figure out what is universally attractive, because there is no such thing.

Very well articulated.

 

[malz1]

I’ve been preaching for years that unlike how it is for women, it is utterly impossible for men to be universally attractive. Virtually all women are attracted to only a subset of men (archetypes as @stormrider puts it). Some women find muscular guys attractive, some leaner, more generally fit guys, and there are even many who are attracted to biker-types with beer bellies.

That’s why I say that men should identify their ideal type(s) and run with it.

When I personally talk about the number rating system that we generally use for women, it is shorthand as it’s difficult to identify and linguistically awkward to succinctly discuss archetypes.

Universal attraction for men is a myth. Run with your identified type and you’ll have no problem with an abundance of women. It’s almost effortless once you do this. When you do, you also become highly tuned into women’s IOIs, which so many men are normally blind to.

I'd agree that no man is liked by "every" female. But some men are liked by the vast majority >90% of females. Not including the okcupid data that revealed roughly 80% of females go after 20% of guys, my personal experience has shown that archetypes don't matter much. I'd recently ran a college experiment explained in my SMV thread detailing how every type of woman was basically drawn in. Athletes, emo druggies, top scholars (top 0.01% grades n accomplishments), cheerleaders, sororities, teachers, TA's, introverts, extroverts, musicians, weird girls, normal girls - we have every type of girl in college and they all fall for the same ppl.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

This is just something you'll get used to working along side with. You'll eventually find it fun giving you more energy to get you through the day. Of course keep things light and professional. The main probs you might encounter though are from aggressive bosses that had received no reciprocated affection back. You'll have to figure that one out. Or maybe the metoo movement has changed things so that they're more cautious? I know males were affected but females still seemed to be in full force. My last female bosses gave me a hardtime because they thought I didn't "care about them". Lmao.

Funny story. One of the creepiest exp's I had to get over was that after catching someone staring at me while I was eating, I'd go back to eating but could just feel their eyes continue to watch me...eat. It felt soo weirrrd like you're getting studied.

yes, that is socially unusual. A smartasz thing to say can be "take a picture, it'll last longer"
Some people do actually not realise they're staring rudely and that might have woken them up out of their reverie.

Dad told me to try boldly opening a full newspaper in their face for your privacy. Eventually they snap out of it and study someone else.
I wonder what its like to be a man with a female boss. Assume everything you say will go on the Jumbotron and you should be good. The females over 55 are definitely better bosses to have probably then you're not dealing with the fuokshow maelstrom that is their menstrual multihormonal cycles.

I have ultraconservative and extraordinarily well bred married family men where I work. Very fine examples of gentlemen. I know how fortunate I am and I'd like to stay here now until I no longer need to work. So no issues there. They are all like family and I've only been there13 months.

I feel safe to take better care of my body and appearance. Just trying to fine-tune, fine-plan an image in case I have to bounce back to construction.