The best option for men is definitely MGTOW, the dating game is a lose lose game

[ChristopherColumbus]

A new term is needed for men that focus firstly on achieving their purpose/goals etc...and place women as secondary accessories to our lives.

MGTOW seems to want to purposely avoid women. Far too many of us (not SS but in general) place our happiness outside of ourselves. This is wrong and potentially catastrophic. As men we are creators, explorers, builders, etc. These things give us purpose. With purpose comes confidence and inner happiness. With a solid foundation then and only then can we truly enjoy the "gaming" of women. I think that is what MGTOW tries to accomplish with a few FA's taking it to the far extreme.

MGTOW hence is a mindset not a set of rules or a pendulum to swing on. It's the inner game component of MGTOW that should be extracted and placed as the forefront to "gaming women".

Most guys can get laid(standards aside)...but how many of us can say we are truly living our best life.

Excuse the rambling (caffeine).

You could be right. A lot of the arguments are really just semantic differences - people are reading different meanings into terms. If the established meaning of MGTOW is too far over toward the 'incel' side of things, anti-woman etc, then yes, another term is needed.

But then part of the problem is this drive for classification... that you must be this.. or that... as if you couldn't be all things in the right mix, at the right time. This is the problem of an overly analytical/ logical approach. It is reductive, and lacks a unified, comprehensive, pragmatic approach.

 

[Von]

Sounds every MGTOW have issues with chicks.

I am a monk mode myself due to GF/business/study.

Sure girls are crazy. It's always been like that.

Poor guy and ugly chick's have the game against them... true.

At the end of the day... you can always do something about it... but it's not easy.

Thats why people who succeed are those who work the most and been able to go through the suffering. Its a fair reward.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Sounds every MGTOW have issues with chicks.

I am a monk mode myself due to GF/business/study.

Sure girls are crazy. It's always been like that.

Poor guy and ugly chick's have the game against them... true.

At the end of the day... you can always do something about it... but it's not easy.

Thats why people who succeed are those who work the most and been able to go through the suffering. Its a fair reward.

So when it's said "it's too late" but your not yet in the grave then what?

 

[zekko]

A new term is needed for men that focus firstly on achieving their purpose/goals etc...and place women as secondary accessories to our lives.

MGTOW seems to want to purposely avoid women.

When I first heard of MGTOW, I assumed it was about men who had given up on dating women and decided to spend their time on other pursuits. Either because of the poor quality of the modern woman or because they had tried and failed repeatedly. However, I was told that this is not so, that MGTOWs are basically just like PUAs, they're using short term mating strategies and putting their own interests first. That definition bugs me, because that makes them the same as about 90% of the guys here.

I think MGTOW should be defined as I said in the first sentence above. And call the other guys PMF or something (Putting Men First).

 

[corrector]

Perhaps this is where the so-called 'incels' go wrong. They get angry, and stay just obsessed with women as the bro chasing all the hoes.

How do you figure that? Are we making generalizations again because some nutjobs did some mass shootings?

 

[corrector]

MGTOW seems to want to purposely avoid women. .

You mean enter into a relationship or commitment with a woman. I don't get the impression they want to avoid women completely without making a choice of whether to be celibate or not. If they don't want to be celibate then they have to deal with women but in such a way their emotional risk is next to nill. Ironically, I think allot of mindset on SS is actually MGTOW in so much that if marriage or LTRs are disfavored and you've got spinning plates then that sounds more like MGTOW to me. How is it then different from DJing?

I mean the fundamental question at the core is "can I really trust a woman", "how much can I trust a woman", and "how much exposure or risk am I willing to put in order to chase an fantasy or Disney romance and gain societal's approval as a happily married and balanced man?". If you are just spinning plates, visiting hookers, or have friends, then you don't actually really trust the women you are dealing with (or respect them for that matter) and are just the same as MGTOW since you are not taking on your social burden or expectation to get married and start a family. Face it, you don't see any woman you are dealing with as the future mother of your children, they are all damaged goods.

 

[corrector]

I am a monk mode myself due to GF/business/study.

You can't be on monk mode if you have a gf.

 

[Misterchaos]

You mean enter into a relationship or commitment with a woman. I don't get the impression they want to avoid women completely without making a choice of whether to be celibate or not. If they don't want to be celibate then they have to deal with women but in such a way their emotional risk is next to nill. Ironically, I think allot of mindset on SS is actually MGTOW in so much that if marriage or LTRs are disfavored and you've got spinning plates then that sounds more like MGTOW to me. How is it then different from DJing?

I mean the fundamental question at the core is "can I really trust a woman", "how much can I trust a woman", and "how much exposure or risk am I willing to put in order to chase an fantasy or Disney romance and gain societal's approval as a happily married and balanced man?". If you are just spinning plates, visiting hookers, or have friends, then you don't actually really trust the women you are dealing with (or respect them for that matter) and are just the same as MGTOW since you are not taking on your social burden or expectation to get married and start a family. Face it, you don't see any woman you are dealing with as the future mother of your children, they are all damaged goods.

Very good points. I accept and understand that people have freedom of choice. Women and men have the freedom to act in whatever way they please. These actions may not always be congruent with our beliefs or principles nevertheless they are free to make them. I guess what I'm saying is we should not fully trust anyone men or women for that matter for if they want to flip script we can't stop them. False expectations lead to devastation.

From what I understand MGTOW is taking women out of the picture altogether.No plates no nothing....maybe hookers. DJs can still be in a LTR. Marriage is a zero sum game and I won't speak on that but I'm mostly against it...

One side avoids completely while the other manages risk and puts himself first while still enjoying women for who they are.

Then again these definitions are created by the community and are subject to misinterpretation and modification.

 

[corrector]

No plates no nothing....maybe hookers.

What is the difference between plates and hookers? Isn't the main difference the set-up or how that is being arranged out, but they are both essentially the same thing. You can borrow or rent a movie right, but it's still not buying it. I think MTGOW is a position where it's not worth the price to buy, but worth to borrow or rent to whose who don't want to be celibate. To those who want to be celibate and really have no contact, then that's monk mode.

 

[Misterchaos]

What is the difference between plates and hookers? Isn't the main difference the set-up or how that is being arranged out, but they are both essentially the same thing. You can borrow or rent a movie right, but it's still not buying it. I think MTGOW is a position where it's not worth the price to buy, but worth to borrow or rent. Like a poorly reviewed mediocre movie you wouldn't go out of your way to see.

Plates you have to maintain and in order to do so you have to enjoy dealing with the complexities that is "woman" . Hookers is more or less pay...f***...and leave. No what are we text. No cuddling. No emotional requirements at all.

Renting a movie that is already released is like a hooker.

Convincing a film studio to let you sit in on a private screening before the movie has come out is like a plate. More work same outcome.

Some enjoy the work " interactions", some don't.

 

[Von]

So when it's said "it's too late" but your not yet in the grave then what?

Why would it be too late ?

It's never too late

 

[skinnyguy]

This entire forum could be summed up in two bullet points:

-alphas should invest time on tinder
-betas should go MGTOW

 

[Murk]

Why would men go their own way when a vagina is a legitimate, working tool.

 

[Murk]

This entire forum could be summed up in two bullet points:

-alphas should invest time on tinder
-betas should go MGTOW

yes

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

What you forget is that, the wall awaits, her fertility is failing her, and you're smv rises in time assuming you are not on phaghitree.

This is why you see all the older dudes on here saying that it’s not that bad and whatnot or saying to suck it up. They have an easier time because all the women from their era that have already hit the wall are just going psycho with sex and that’s all they want, or they give them sex so readily because they’re trying so hard to tie them down.

Musk puts in 80 hr work weeks. He's terraforming Mars. He is getting baes. If that dudes putting in 80 hours a week, you have no time for this low test cuckholdry rubbish.

Okay this is stupid. If he wasn’t getting bitches at all then THAT would be weird. Celebrities are on a whole other level dude, you shouldn’t even bring up such a person.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

MGTOW is like socialism. They are ideological concepts that give one the sense that it is all about making things fair, making things just, equalizing the playing field so that no one can succeed wildly at the expense of another. It's a great concept on paper.

But in practice it is bullsh*t. It enriches nobody's life. There is no balance achieved. There is no justice served. You're just another citizen in the Gulag who figured out how to prevent the guards from putting a bullet in your head.

Women are like the prison guards.

DJism is the rebellion.

Sex is Victory.

This was a very short but great read hahaha

 

[logicallefty]

I think the answer to what's MGTOW and what's not is in the word

Men Going THEIR OWN WAY

Their Own Way = Doing whatever the fvck they want that is out side of the blue bars of societal prison that most men submit to getting sent without putting up a fight. Let's talk about said prison:

Let's take a man and call him 'Andy'. Andy was raised to believe that his life was to be spent inside a prison ran by a female warden also known as his wife. Inside said prison he is supposed to get married and surrender his soul, dignity, assets, and spine to his wife, giving her a share of everything he has and will have the rest of his life. He is supposed to further his permanent ties with said warden by having her children, guaranteeing 18 years of her dictatorship. While getting an occasional dip in her vag for pleasure only WHEN and IF she feels like it. Andy is supposed to stay in said prison either until SHE IS NOT HAPPY AND RELEASES HIM, he dies, or until he swallows the red pill and jailbreaks out through a sewer pipe to freedom. If the warden chooses to release him from prison on her wishes and terms he will be sent to a halfway house where he is to live under home surveillance and be on parole for up to 18 years. In said arrangement the rules are dictated by his former warden and many other powerful agents of the State called Judges, States Attorneys, police, and Child and Family Services.

The way I see it, anyone not putting themselves on the same path as Andy is MGTOW. That could be from MGTOWs like me who still have sex with women and even LTRS, but will never again surrender to going to prison like Andy.. Will protect assests, reputation, dignity, and freedom above all else. All the way to the other extreme of the monk living in the Alaskan bush and never talking to another woman the rest of his life. To me, that's all MGTOW, again, because of the words "THEIR OWN WAY".

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

How do you figure that? Are we making generalizations again because some nutjobs did some mass shootings?

Once again, it comes down to the definitions of terms. What's happening in my opinion is that things haven't really been thought out... so different kinds of people are being lumped into the same category. This is why making distinctions is important.

So we have this term 'incels'. I don't really like it, but it seems to have established itself. Like yourself, I don't think it should be a derogative term, meaning that so-called 'incels' are potentially mass murders. As mentioned in a previous post, if this idea became established it would be disastrous.

Given the various attitudes developing [in the manosphere] towards women these days, there needs to be something of a colorful spectrum to portray the gradations. At one end would be complete monk mode, then the innocent incel, then the norm of this spectrum, the opportunist Don Juan, through to the other end of the complete pimp. As for the mass murderer, this should not even appear on the spectrum. That is about insanity... not about a rational attitude toward women.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Sounds every MGTOW have issues with chicks.

I am a monk mode myself due to GF/business/study.

Sure girls are crazy. It's always been like that.

Poor guy and ugly chick's have the game against them... true.

At the end of the day... you can always do something about it... but it's not easy.

Thats why people who succeed are those who work the most and been able to go through the suffering. Its a fair reward.

Yes, and it really is a cultural problem. People have not been taught how to cope with suffering. All they hear, like a monotonous drum beat, is that they must be happy. Life is not like that... people that pretend it is like that are delusional. I think this ability to cope with suffering safeguards us from the trap of addictions/ the desire to escape our self... it really is the other side of happiness.

This is why I think self-mastery [really just good old-fashioned self-discipline] is crucial today.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

When I first heard of MGTOW, I assumed it was about men who had given up on dating women and decided to spend their time on other pursuits. Either because of the poor quality of the modern woman or because they had tried and failed repeatedly. However, I was told that this is not so, that MGTOWs are basically just like PUAs, they're using short term mating strategies and putting their own interests first. That definition bugs me, because that makes them the same as about 90% of the guys here.

I think MGTOW should be defined as I said in the first sentence above. And call the other guys PMF or something (Putting Men First).

Or suspended operations until further notice.....

'Given up' is very strong. Perhaps it would be best to have sub-classes of MGTOW, or other terms altogether. It's obvious that there is more going on here in this field than can be 'classified' under the current terminology. I feel a Phd coming on.