How would you of handled this?

[guru1000]

YOU can't assume the intent of someone else. ?

Exactly. Thus why shaming liars is imprudent, before understanding the context. You understand the "motivation" by observing one's consistent behaviors/actions.

I could be standing on a line proclaiming I'm a paramedic (meanwhile I'm a CEO), and I will be there in case anyone pukes on the Disneyland ride out of humor. Different intent.

For example:

It was casual conversation in the line. I'm pretty sure he said it out if insecurity, responding to past employment Apparently he fabricated a fair amount of things and expected she would never call him on any of it. He made up stuff about being in the Navy seals, etc.

Navy seals, past under- or un-employment: Seems like he's touting himself up to mask insecurities. This signifies weakness. I would disqualify based on the operating motivation thereunder.

 

[ubercat]

What gets me is he fingered her and she didn't want to have sex. That's very odd especially after the whole bathrobe thing.

 

[sazc]

Exactly. Thus why shaming liars is imprudent, before understanding the context. You understand the "motivation" by observing one's consistent behaviors/actions.

I could be standing on a line proclaiming I'm a paramedic (meanwhile I'm a CEO), and I will be there in case anyone pukes on the Disneyland ride out of humor. Different intent.

For example:

Navy seals, past under- or un-employment: Seems like he's touting himself up to mask insecurities. This signifies weakness. I would disqualify based on the operating intent thereunder.

I don't advocate shaming liars. I advocate having a conversation (at some point) pointing out the lie, and asking why.
The words of their reply will tell you all you need to know.

I still contend that it is the utmost of disrespect to put *me* in that situation to begin with. My standards are such that I would walk. People are who they are. If they feel comfortable doing this, they aren't going to stop. You can't change insecurity (or any other ingrained belief a person had about themselves) Don't ever take on a person as a project.

In truth, most people aren't in touch with themselves enough to know that insecurity (or what have you) prompted the lie - and/or they would never be that vulnerable to admit they are insecure, if they did know that truth.

 

[DreamAgain]

Lying, a socially shamed construct, is broad, and, on it's face, does not designate a person's integrity (or lack of). What's relevant is one's intent.

Very often, those who belligerently shame "liars" are of ill intent themselves guised and thus contrived in the veneer of "truth." Look to the intent, which is demonstrated by one's actions to understand the true story.

Why would one's intent belie one's words, unless the goal is to deceive?

A person who is extensively late, and makes a habit out of it, clearly does not value the other person's time, barring some unforseen emergencies.

A woman who lies will attempt to deceive in other ways, this is almost a certainty.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

There is not a person on the planet who is 100% honest 100% of the time about 100% of things. I don't mind saying that because it's a true statement.

Woah woah woah, speak for yourself lady. I for one never lie. Granted, I might not tell everything that might be wanted to be known, but I never lie. Even if someone will get mad at me.

 

[guru1000]

This:

I advocate have a conversation (at some point) pointing out the lie, and asking why.

conflicts with this:

In truth, most people aren't in touch with themselves enough to know that insecurity (or what have you) prompted the lie - and/or would never be that vulnerable to admit they are insecure.

Hence, asking why is pointless, especially given, if YOU now think he is a liar, why would you lend credence to his answer to such a question.

Observe the behaviors/actions to understand the why.

I still content that it is the utmost of disrespect to put *me* in that situation to begin with. My standards are such that I would walk. People are who they are. If they feel comfortable doing this, they aren't going to stop. You can't change insecurity (or any other ingrained belief a person had about themselves) don't ever take on a project.

Too broad a construct to argue. And to say "if he lies, I'm OUT" is quite naive, as what if he lied to give his mother a comforting thought right before she died.

Lying to harm is very different than lying to help. Most lies fall within the thousands shades of grey in between. My interjection in this discussion is to direct that actions do not matter (in the scope of integrity), intentions do.

 

[sazc]

This:

conflicts with this:

Hence, asking why is pointless, especially given, if YOU now think he is a liar, why would you lend credence to his answer to such a question.

Observe the behaviors/actions to understand the why.


Too broad a construct to argue. And to say "if he lies, I'm OUT" is quite naive, as what if he lied to give his mother a comforting thought right before she died.

Lying to harm is very different than lying to help. Most lies fall within the thousands shades of grey in between. My interjection in this discussion is to direct that actions do not matter (in the scope of integrity), intentions do.

No conflicts with anything I have said. I have had the "why did you lie" conversation with people. It's very easy to tell the charachter of an individual by the answer they give.

Communication, conversation in a relationship is essential and healthy. It's a must.

If he lied to his mother and I asked him about it,and and he replied that it was to give his mother a comforting thought before she died, I would evaluate the content of the lie against his reason for lying, and go from there. THIS is why it's so important to talk about behaviors that bother you in a relationship. Better I ASK then to stew about something that bothers me, or worse, make faulty assumptions....

 

[guru1000]

No conflicts with anything I have said. I have had the "why did you lie" conversation with people. It's very easy to tell the charachter of an individual by the answer they give.

Then you are susceptible to liars.

If he lied to his mother and I asked him about it,and and he replied that it was to give his mother a confirmation thought before she died, I would evaluate the content of the lie again his reason for lying, and go from there.

This would show me you just "don't get it." Would be a disqualifier to me, not contrariwise, as it's self-evident. Akin to asking me, "Why did you lie to the front desk about reserving the Double-King suite instead of the Queen suite when we walked into the 5-star hotel." I prefer not to babysit those who can't keep up.

 

[guru1000]

I fail to see how being able to assess charachter based on someone's reply to being called out on a lie makes me susceptible to liars? Unless you really think I easily buy bvllchit.

If you were my man and you lied to the front desk about the level of our reservation.... First of all.. How embarrassing! Why wild you lie about that? To try to work am angle to get a better room?! I'm not down with being publicly humiliated by an employee of a hotel. Don't!

Second of all, if that's an acceptable manner of existing in the world for you, I would disqualify myself first.

That's either a new York 'thing' / attitude or we were raised in different social classes.

Lie to a hotel front desk about a reservation. Eek!

Probably different social classes. I take top-tier rooms whether they were made available to me or not.

Hey the truck driver will be more than happy with you on the bunk bed--and he won't dare to ever upgrade or lie

 

[sazc]

Probably different social classes. I take top-tier rooms whether they were made available to me or not.

Hey the truck driver will be more than happy with you on the bunk bed--and he won't dare to ever upgrade or lie

Lol, nice

Btw, the Disneyland non paramedic is a truck driver for a living....

 

[marmel75]

What gets me is he fingered her and she didn't want to have sex. That's very odd especially after the whole bathrobe thing.

No its not surprising...she wanted to be seduced...he went in with guns blazing and it was offputting...

How you do something is as important as what you are doing in this case

 

[guru1000]

Btw, the Disneyland non paramedic is a truck driver or a living....

Thus your aversion. Has everything to do with the person and not the lie.

Truck driver pretending to be a paramedic = Insecure deadbeat

10MM CEO pretending to be a paramedic = Funny as hell

You have been lied to all your life by truck drivers; hence your scarring.

 

[marmel75]

Thus your aversion. Has everything to do with the person and not the lie.

Truck driver pretending to be a paramedic = Insecure deadbeat

10MM CEO pretending to be a paramedic = Funny as hell

You have been lied to all your life by truck drivers; hence your scarring.

Women have been lied to all their life by men claiming to want a relationship when they just want to fvck.

 

[guru1000]

Women have been lied to all their life by men claiming to want a relationship when they just want to fvck.

Ha. The irony behind Sazc's "no lying" stance is women are wired to communicate covertly, very often through manipulation, and thus the biggest liars:

I'm not that kind of girl = She is that kind of girl
We're not having sex tonight = We're having sex tonight
I never do this = She always does this
What kind of girl do you think I am? = A slut

LOL. And on and on and on.

 

[sazc]

Thus your aversion. Has everything to do with the person and not the lie.

Truck driver pretending to be a paramedic = Insecure deadbeat

10MM CEO pretending to be a paramedic = Funny as hell

You have been lied to all your life by truck drivers; hence your scarring.

That's funny. I never dated the truck driver. My girlfriend married him. I didn't think much of him before she made that decision.

This is the second time that you are attempting to provoke by personally attacking aspects of my life you know nothing about. Up until this thread, I thought you held yourself in higher regard then to stoop to that level. Huh....

 

[sazc]

Ha. The irony behind Sazc's "no lying" stance is women are wired to communicate covertly, very often through manipulation, and thus the biggest liars:

I'm not that kind of girl = She is that kind of girl
We're not having sex tonight = We're having sex tonight
I never do this = She always does this
What kind of girl do you think I am? = A slut

LOL. And on and on and on.

You are taking my original point and moving out of the realm I was speaking about. Jeez, I must have really got to you, eh?

My basic point was that, I feel, it's important to not let the person you are dating lie to you, or in front of you.

Your point was that context matters. Okay, sure, fine. We all have different thresholds. If it feels cool to you, then let it go. However, if it feels even remotely questionable, (disrespectful, dysfunctional etc) recognize that as a red flag.

I will bring it up to him so I can see what meat the man is really made of. Do they try and dismiss? Do they gaslight? Do they take responsibility? Do they own it?

Yea, it's difficult. But who wants to hitch their wagon too sometime who thinks lying is status quo?

I've not had issues with any man, in a relationship, lying to me, since my 20s. I will call out aquaintances and friends if I see this behavior, because I have standards for all my relationships.

 

[guru1000]

. I will call out aquaintances and friends if I see this behavior, because I have standards for all my relationships.

This lacks a certain emotional intelligence, given you know he lied and likely why he lied, and if you didn't know why he lied and he is a liar, why would he then tell the truth.

Example: If I lied to my mother on her hospital bed saying everything was great at home, while it wasn't before she passed, and you asked me why I lied, I would think you're a moron. No pun intended.

It seems a certain something is missing in your thought process. I mean this is the most endearing way

 

[sazc]

This lacks a certain emotional intelligence, given you know he lied and likely why he lied, and if you didn't know why he lied and he is a liar, why would he then tell the truth.

Example: If I lied to my mother on her hospital bed saying everything was great at home, while it wasn't before she passed, and you asked me why I lied, I would think you're a moron. No pun intended.

It seems a certain something is missing in your thought process. I mean this is the most endearing way

Sometime is going to lie to me and I need to have emotional intelligence with them when I ask why they lied?

Uhhhhhhh no

Again, I don't make assumptions on behalf of people. Enablers do that. I expect people to be healthy and have accountability - even if that accountability includes the phrase "yea, I know that I lied, here's why I did that...."

Responsibility... It's part of healthy adulting, in my world.

EDIT: at this point we're both looking like tenacity, droning on and on over something we see similarly, but also differently enough to debate.

Feel free to chime in one more time and attempt to insult me. I'm signing off.

Ciao

 

[guru1000]

Sometime is going to lie to me and I need to have emotional intelligence with them when I ask why they lied?

Uhhhhhhh no

Again, I don't make assumptions on behalf of people. Enablers do that. I expect people to be healthy and have accountability - even if that accountability includes the phrase "yea, I know that I lied, here's why I did that...."

Responsibility... It's part of healthy adulting, in my world.

"Men should have accountability" professed by a woman? Haha. Congrats, this is the first time I heard this from a woman given most (hot) women are "angels who do no wrong."

Perhaps, before requesting accountability from men, you should take accountability that you do lie also. And neither you nor any man you ever met is perfect(ly honorable)

But to address you directly: Any woman who asks me why I lied when it's painfully obvious why I did, I construe as not on my level. Take it as you like.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]