Who here wants to get married and why?

[BeExcellent]

I recall that a while ago, you said that the only person you’ve ever felt attracted to after your divorce was your ex-husband, though you aren’t going to marry him again due to what occurred between you two. And if I recall correctly, he is still struggling to rebuild himself again and is no longer what most people would describe to be a high value man, at least not nearly to your purported level. Yet you still hold at least some attraction towards him. Now considering all of this, how does it make sense to us that simply improving ourselves can grant us the high value, dream women we desire?

I can think of 6 possible answers to this question. One of them being that female attraction is illogical and irrational. Another being Desdinova’s High Score Theory. The next being that part of you subconsciously regrets having left him. The fourth being some combination of the above. The fifth that you actually HAVE had men outside of your ex that attracted you, you just lied or were trying to convince yourself that you don’t like them, for one reason or another. And the last being that like previously, I am unable to discern the truth from my own intuition. Again, I hope it’s the last one.

Actually I dated a man for about 18 months who I was very attracted to. He was everything I desired in a man physically and knew how to lead and was just a delight to spend time with. There were three issues with him. One was he was far away, but I saw him regularly because I have business near his locale, one was he struggled with physical intimacy (once we got to that point about 6 months in) and the other was he had ongoing serious drama from his ex wife regarding his children. I heard from him this past weekend and he is STILL dealing with a legal nightmare post divorce custody entanglements. He liked me and told me along the way that I am "the sort of woman you marry" but that he simply does not have the emotional bandwidth to entertain a relationship currently. Knowing the details of his situation I tend to believe him. So perhaps a case of right person/wrong time. He's a great guy and I wish the best for him.

I am fond of my ex husband, (who was a high value man when we married) we have been through a lot, we had in many ways an enviable marriage. We became best friends in the marriage, the sexual union was off the hook, and we enjoy each other's company. We share many interests in dance, and nightlife and share similar family values. We have the 3 children together and we get along well. But we are better off not married. I cannot respect him or follow him the way a woman should respect and follow her man. I am 10-20 years further down the road of personal development than he is and he will never catch up. He cannot lead me. The divorce removed the toxic elements that were festering unresolved in the relationship and forced my ex to get back into the arena of life if you will. There is still enduring attraction because the intimacy was incredible, but there are other things that are now obvious incompatibility issues that cannot be overcome. I cannot look up to him and revere him the way I should as a woman and frankly the way he should be revered. That is for some other woman if he chooses (and I do hope he finds such a woman if he decides to), and my reverence is reserved for some other man. I will always love him but I cannot LOVE him with everything that I am. That was broken forever. It is impossible to LOVE someone who can't love themselves. I spent years trying to encourage him, to FIX him. I've learned that is folly (which is something reiterated here at SS.)

So where my ex is concerned I love him and will always love him but I am not his girl. I want to see him with a woman who can LOVE him as a man because I want to see him happy. For myself I am patient and blessed to have abundance and choice. My grandmother was a widow (at about 43 years of age) for 18 years before she found a suitable second husband, and she improved her own life and was patient in those years. I too am patient. I know the process and I know myself. I doubt I will remarry because I have financial obligations I must fulfill where my children are concerned and I am not going to do anything to jeopardize that.

I've recently begun seeing someone who appears thus far to have good compatibility with me and who can lead me. He is physically to my preferences and I find him sexy and very attractive both in his look and his manner. He is financially independent although I wouldn't consider him wealthy. The issue with him is whether he values novelty or intimacy. I don't know the answer yet. We are not yet exclusive and so the jury is out for the time being. Like me he has 3 children and his ties to his ex are close. We understand one another in that area. He also appreciates the nightlife, gets the cultural references from back in the day, and has danced Latin and Country for 20+ years. So we shall see how that goes. I expect things to develop slowly as they do where I am concerned. And meanwhile I still meet others.

When you have this sort of abundance you look at opportunity costs. If you enter an exclusive relationship with one person, what opportunity costs are you giving up that you don't know about yet? As @Howiestern explained in his post however, opportunity cost can be a double edged sword. You could pass up something assuming someone better is going to come along. That is a risk to be aware of. As Howie noted there are FEW people you'll come across in life that are WORTHY of say marriage or even LTR.

The trick that all of us wrestle with is our desire for closeness to another human being and how best to determine which other human being is worthy of our investment and closeness. It's not easy. In youth I think you have the benefit of idealism and in older age hopefully you have the benefit of wisdom.

I hope that has shed some light on your questions of me. My intent is not to be arrogant (although I know you see me that way) but to share for the benefit of those here.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Response 1.

So from what I could tell from this, women have much more standards to rate men upon, and those standards get harder to meet the higher up they get. Lots of criteria to meet. Second point is that from what I can tell, a man always has to date down it seems. This breeds for hypergamy. Sad fact of life I suppose.

So the answer to this first question would be that you need to be compatible in addition to high value, as you would put it......When women say something like this in regards to a man asking a question, the man interprets her response directly and more word for word, not the subtle nuances underneath the text which is how women tend to communicate. So I guess to translate into men’s speech, it’s nigh on impossible to find such a woman. You *can* but exceedingly difficult. Again, I’m not trying to be condescending but I’m interpreting this for my brothers of the future who are asking the same question I am now into a way they can better understand. Also there is a word limit which is why I shortened up the posts some.

Response 2

So the answer to my second question is pretty much the same as the first then, except that it adds that you need to be ready for it, and so does she.
__________________________________________
So you said 2 things that struck out to me:

The trick that all of us wrestle with is our desire for closeness to another human being and how best to determine which other human being is worthy of our investment and closeness. It's not easy.

In youth I think you have the benefit of idealism and in older age hopefully you have the benefit of wisdom.

For the first quote, I know that this is true because it is something that I’ve been struggling with pretty much my whole life. I have dealt with it now that I can survive without it and can cut off my relationships with anyone even if I don’t want to. I’ve learned how to finally have pride so that why. But there is an issue: I still FEEL myself not wanting to. I guess in essence, how do I stop myself from desiring this closeness? I want to permanently get rid of it. Don’t think that I wish to be this way for no reason. Until I truly lose this desire, no one will want to truly be close to me. I’ve noticed it time and time again. It’s a rather strange phenomenon actually haha. But I need to get rid of it. This will be be ultimate step I can take towards making myself a stronger person.

As to this second part, you are right about idealism. I’ve had it engrained in my since my birth for whatever fvcked up reason that I could live ‘happily ever after’. In fact, that’s why I’m still able to argue with Urbanyst and those other retards, albeit part of it is because I just like to piss them off since they cannot logically prove me wrong without changing the subject or diverting. Well anyway, I know that life doesn’t work that way and it ain’t a fairytale, that’s for sure. But there is that bit of hope that remains, partially due to the possibility that because it CAN happen (a successful happy marriage), it thus will. But I’m almost waiting on that hope in a way. I need to crush that hope; get rid of it entirely. It’s stemming from that same desire of desiring closeness too. The only way I can ever come across such a woman is when I no longer look for it or hope for it. This will be the icing on the cake for making myself a stronger person. How can I achieve these two goals (ESPECIALLY the first one)?

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

So from what I could tell from this, women have much more standards to rate men upon, and those standards get harder to meet the higher up they get. Lots of criteria to meet. Second point is that from what I can tell, a man always has to date down it seems. This breeds for hypergamy. Sad fact of life I suppose.

So the answer to this first question would be that you need to be compatible in addition to high value, as you would put it......When women say something like this in regards to a man asking a question, the man interprets her response directly and more word for word, not the subtle nuances underneath the text which is how women tend to communicate. So I guess to translate into men’s speech, it’s nigh on impossible to find such a woman. You *can* but exceedingly difficult. Again, I’m not trying to be condescending but I’m interpreting this for my brothers of the future who are asking the same question I am now into a way they can better understand. Also there is a word limit which is why I shortened up the posts some.

So the answer to my second question is pretty much the same as the first then, except that it adds that you need to be ready for it, and so does she.
__________________________________________
So you said 2 things that struck out to me:


For the first quote, I know that this is true because it is something that I’ve been struggling with pretty much my whole life. I have dealt with it now that I can survive without it and can cut off my relationships with anyone even if I don’t want to. I’ve learned how to finally have pride so that why. But there is an issue: I still FEEL myself not wanting to. I guess in essence, how do I stop myself from desiring this closeness? I want to permanently get rid of it. Don’t think that I wish to be this way for no reason. Until I truly lose this desire, no one will want to truly be close to me. I’ve noticed it time and time again. It’s a rather strange phenomenon actually haha. But I need to get rid of it. This will be be ultimate step I can take towards making myself a stronger person.

As to this second part, you are right about idealism. I’ve had it engrained in my since my birth for whatever fvcked up reason that I could live ‘happily ever after’. In fact, that’s why I’m still able to argue with Urbanyst and those other retards, albeit part of it is because I just like to piss them off since they cannot logically prove me wrong without changing the subject or diverting. Well anyway, I know that life doesn’t work that way and it ain’t a fairytale, that’s for sure. But there is that bit of hope that remains, partially due to the possibility that because it CAN happen (a successful happy marriage), it thus will. But I’m almost waiting on that hope in a way. I need to crush that hope; get rid of it entirely. It’s stemming from that same desire of desiring closeness too. The only way I can ever come across such a woman is when I no longer look for it or hope for it. This will be the icing on the cake for making myself a stronger person. How can I achieve these two goals (ESPECIALLY the first one)?

Your comment about closeness is very interesting to me.

Are you saying that you want to eliminate your desire for closeness because somehow it thwarts your ability to attract a woman who is worthy of your closeness?

Is it an attempt to not appear too emotionally needy? Which as we all know can be the death of a relationship for a man.

For what it's worth, in my opinion, that closeness , that openness, that intimacy, whether it is with your woman, your brother, your friend, your children, are what makes life worth living. I never want to lose that part of myself.

It is the beauty and glory of being human.

-Augustus-

 

[Fruitbat]

Your comment about closeness is very interesting to me.

Are you saying that you want to eliminate your desire for closeness because somehow it thwarts your ability to attract a woman who is worthy of your closeness?

Is it an attempt to not appear too emotionally needy? Which as we all know can be the death of a relationship for a man.

For what it's worth, in my opinion, that closeness , that openness, that intimacy, whether it is with your woman, your brother, your friend, your children, are what makes life worth living. I never want to lose that part of myself.

It is the beauty and glory of being human.

-Augustus-

Hail Caser

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Your comment about closeness is very interesting to me.

Are you saying that you want to eliminate your desire for closeness because somehow it thwarts your ability to attract a woman who is worthy of your closeness?

Is it an attempt to not appear too emotionally needy? Which as we all know can be the death of a relationship for a man.

For what it's worth, in my opinion, that closeness , that openness, that intimacy, whether it is with your woman, your brother, your friend, your children, are what makes life worth living. I never want to lose that part of myself.

It is the beauty and glory of being human.

-Augustus-

Well it’s a double-edged sword. So long as I desire it, I shall not have it. When I no long we desire it is when I shall obtain it. I’ve noticed this for a LONG time, pretty much my whole life. And as soon as I started to have hope that maybe someone wanted to get to to know me or care about me or whatever, they stopped giving a crap. Every. Single. Time. And the fact is this is a weakness of mine, this desire. Why should I feel this way?

No. I say I should not. I won’t get taken advantage of regardless of how close I feel towards a person. No one can make me love them more than I hate being weak. But I still need to eliminate this desire in order to completely self-actualize. Once I do, I will be able to stop procrastinating and keep laser-focus on what I need to do.

 

[BeExcellent]

For what it's worth, in my opinion, that closeness , that openness, that intimacy, whether it is with your woman, your brother, your friend, your children, are what makes life worth living. I never want to lose that part of myself.

It is the beauty and glory of being human.

I concur wholeheartedly with this sentiment. The joy in life emerges from our relationships. Don't seek to squash that potential for joy.

Now considering all of this, how does it make sense to us that simply improving ourselves can grant us the high value, dream women we desire?

To be very succinct and answer your question in a different but very direct way, think of it as your admission to the top club or top pool of people in life. Gaining admission to the group does not assure you success but it does assure you exposure. Once you get exposure it is up to you to get results...but the exposure to the best women gets you in the door and onto the radar screen. From there its about compatibility.

Well it’s a double-edged sword. So long as I desire it, I shall not have it. When I no long we desire it is when I shall obtain it

As you become self-actualized you'll BECOME steadfast in who you are as a man. You may find that you change from this "desire" for closeness (which appears to repel as you observe) a la

appear too emotionally needy? Which as we all know can be the death of a relationship for a man.

and you will come more from a place of recognition instead. As you self actualize and your inner game solidifies you'll develop the ability to recognize women worth your investment. And everything will flow naturally because you will recognize and you'll lead. I don't know how else to explain it. Being with the right person is effortless and feels comfortable and natural. It doesn't feel forced or contrived at all.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

As you become self-actualized you'll BECOME steadfast in who you are as a man. You may find that you change from this "desire" for closeness (which appears to repel as you observe) a la

I have self-actualized before. I’ve mentioned this before on here, it was when I was 15. I’ve since lost my way, but there are remnants that still remain from that time that will NEVER go away. No matter how low I am feeling, I will not let anyone walk over me. Even if I somehow get to the point where I am so distraught and sad that others would commit suicide in my position, I will not let someone walk over me and abuse me even if I desparately long for their companionship. Not even if I value(d) them above my parents. I refuse. This characteristic has been engrained into me when I was 15 and first started reading this site. It’s something that has now permanently become apart of me and will not go away even if I am broken inside. I’ve realized that this trait is not of someone who is not steadfast with who they are as a man. BE, I am. I just need to get rid of that one itch. When I get rid of the desire, I will be able to self-actualize (see: Maslow’s Heirarchy of Needs). I can skip the love/belonging needs and go straight into actualization. I already have strong esteem, I just don’t FEEL it. My identity is my own. I’ve already mastered it by now, which means I can directly enter the final stage in Maslow’s pyramid. This one thing is bothering me. I think I may know how I can get rid of it, though doing so through this method will make me even more mentally exhausted than I already am and I may fall down to a lower point than before I started, so it’s a gamble. I ask for different perspectives to see what wisdom I can glean from others and thus know myself better.

 

[Urbanyst]

It’s true. Most men aren’t worthy of women which is why most men struggle.

Absurd.

Explain using FACTS.

And like I said, those who have the traits of those 5 women are worth marrying because they don’t change unless you do first. Remember how the man is supposed to lead? Well if you change, she will follow your lead an change too. So you better cause her to change for ge better.

Also, last I checked men get old too

If you think you can attract hot college cheerleaders when you’re 60, you are an idiot.

Women change regardless of what men do.

You are talking out of your ass and showing your lack of worldly knowledge and experience lol.

 

[Urbanyst]

Lol, I'm going to help @guru1000 and @BeExcellent out. I'm going to fill in their side (benefits/why marriage would be smart). See below for the full breakdown:

#1.) Reason One - Marrying "Up": Marriage would be a smart decision and an overall "benefit" for the man, if it's based primarily on the man marrying "up" financially. So if the man makes $50,000 a year but the chick makes $200,000 a year with little to no debt, then the man is getting a very good deal out of this, especially if the man might be able to play a house-husband role, technically all of the leverage in Family Court shifts his way. Adding to this, if the chick is relatively decent looking without kids from another man, this makes the situation even better. This is technically @BeExcellent's marriage.

#2.) Reason Two - Business Promotion: Marriage would be a smart decision and overall "benefit" for the man, if the act of being married allows him to further his business or career directly from the act of being married. For example, it would be hard to run for a major political office without being married.

#3.) Reason Three - Citizenship: Marriage would be a smart decision and overall "benefit" for the man, if he is looking to gain citizenship.

#4.) Reason Four - Required Based On Family Network: Marriage would be a smart decision and overall "benefit" for the man, if it's a requirement from his family to continue receiving some sort of major family benefit, such as trust funds, taking over the family business, etc.

So in a nutshell, marriage is a smart decision and overall "benefit" for the man, if there's a direct financial or political gain that comes directly from the act of being married.

Note though, that these cases above will likely only apply to no more than 5% of men still left on the market that could potentially be married. Reason being is that women usually marry "up" and not "down", most men aren't looking for citizenship, most men aren't running for political office, and most family networks aren't setup to the point where you are required to marry in order to receive trust fund contributions.

So for the over 95% of other cases of men left on the market, marriage would not be a smart decision and overall "benefit" of the man. The man would be better off not entering a marriage contract. Also the raising of kids does not require a marriage contract, raising kids requires two decent parents along with a community that challenges and develops the kid(s) to grow into efficient adults.

You would think the people arguing with us would be able to come up with this stuff themselves right? Lol. I'm shocked by their lack of subject matter knowledge. Most of their thought process comes straight from Hollywood.

In the end.. marriage is only SMART for men in very unique situations that the vast majority of men will NEVER BE IN.

 

[Tenacity]

It’s true. Most men aren’t worthy of women which is why most men struggle.

And like I said, those who have the traits of those 5 women are worth marrying because they don’t change unless you do first. Remember how the man is supposed to lead? Well if you change, she will follow your lead an change too. So you better cause her to change for ge better.

Also, last I checked men get old too

If you think you can attract hot college cheerleaders when you’re 60, you are an idiot.

@Urbanyst I'm very much convinced this DoubleGreatest person is:

- Not 17 years old

- Not a dude

- Most likely a woman in her early to mid 30's

Just look at this person's post history and the commentary they provide. They sound very much like @sazc does. I am willing to bet nobody could pay this person $1,000 to post a picture.

 

[sazc]

@Urbanyst I'm very much convinced this DoubleGreatest person is:

- Not 17 years old

- Not a dude

- Most likely a woman in her early to mid 30's

Just look at this person's post history and the commentary they provide. They sound very much like @sazc does. I am willing to bet nobody could pay this person $1,000 to post a picture.

Is not me. Definitely a dude, and is younger. I've spoken to, and texted him, recently (Thursday), and I know his name. He's chill. His sister is funny, "my fam" "my dude" which I'm hearing about
A lot from the young set, lol, and she's pretty, but didn't know how to take a compliment . In fact, I've probably seen a pic of him when I creeped his sister's FB page, and they creeped mine. We creeped together, lol

And he knows me, etc

Why would he post a picture? Because @Tenacity has low self esteem and thinks trying to call someone out will make him 'seem' stronger? Pfffftttt.

In short @Tenacity you lose this pissing match. Seems like you need to find another thread to start an argument and get your attention needs satisfied thru.

"Pay attention to me wahhhhhhh!!!! I'm right!!!! Wahhhhhhh"

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Absurd.

Explain using FACTS.



Women change regardless of what men do.

You are talking out of your ass and showing your lack of worldly knowledge and experience lol.

Most men can’t get laid. That’s facts enough.

And I was referring to the type of women I mentioned before. If you refuse to admit that you’ve found any woman worthy at all throughout your whole life, either you just suck at life, don’t go out much, are angry and bitter because you were too stupid and inexperienced with women to guard yourself, or you weren’t/aren’t a man. Maybe some combination of the above. Anyone who’s actually HAD worldly experience knows what I’m talking about. You clearly don’t

 

[sazc]

@Tenacity just talked to IMTDG on the phone. We both laughed at your "challenge"! LOL

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

@Urbanyst I'm very much convinced this DoubleGreatest person is:

- Not 17 years old

- Not a dude

- Most likely a woman in her early to mid 30's

Just look at this person's post history and the commentary they provide. They sound very much like @sazc does. I am willing to bet nobody could pay this person $1,000 to post a picture.

I mean I have posted some pics here before. Just not with my face in them. My very first avatar was a shirtless pic of me. No woman in the world has a body like mine either. And not only that, my style is nowhere NEAR sazc’s. Cognitive dissonance coming from a weak and insecure man.

I tell you what though. If you ACTUALLY pay me a thousand bucks, I will PM you a picture of myself holding a sign that says I AM the double greatest, with #SoSuave or whatever. But I know for a fact you won’t.

 

[sazc]

I mean I have posted some pics here before. Just not with my face in them. My very first avatar was a shirtless pic of me. No woman in the world has a body like mine either. And not only that, my style is nowhere NEAR sazc’s. Cognitive dissonance coming from a weak and insecure man.

I tel you what though. If you ACTUALLY pay me a thousand bucks, I will PM you a picture of myself holding a sign that says I AM the double greatest, with #SoSuave or whatever. But I know for a fact you won’t.

Lol, set up a go fund me so he can donate anonymously

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Lol, set up a go fund me so he can donate anonymously

We’re online at the same time too, how tf can we be the same person? Tenacity’s gonna be short a thousand dollars lol

 

[sazc]

We’re online at the same time too, how tf can we be the same person? Tenacity’s gonna be short a thousand dollars lol

I suppose we could be one person with 2 accounts. But my half of us is posting from 6 flags down south while your half of us is posting from work up north. Is your half cold like my half is? It's chilly here!

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

As you self actualize and your inner game solidifies you'll develop the ability to recognize women worth your investment.

Or the dearth thereof...

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

I suppose we could be one person with 2 accounts. But my half of us is posting from 6 flags down south while your half of us is posting from work up north. Is your half cold like my half is? It's chilly here!

****ing freezing. But I’m used to it lol

 

[Asasione]

What are you talking about lol? I'm referencing your comment that top tier men don't have issues in this market of women. I just provided examples of millionaires and billionaires who have had failed marriages along with other failed relationships to show that your comment is not true.



What exactly do you want me to give an "earnest try"? Is it marriage?? And I'm not bitter about anything in relation to this topic lol, what exactly would I be bitter about? No woman has financially screwed me over.



What am I bitter about lol??



Honey if I sign a marriage contract, there's NO WAY I can be impervious to the things I'm "ranting about" (such as the potential financial disasters). Just being positive, happy, and having an uplifting attitude is NOT going to change the fact that the marriage contract I'm signing is B.S. I know the Law of Attraction/The Secret book that you read says different......but come on lol.



My plan is working fine. Understand this thread is to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of the Marriage contract. I am participating in it to lend my voice to the discussion, which honestly, is why it is over 20 pages....without Tenacity driving the debate/discussion this thread would be boring and would have died 18 pages ago .

Instead, pound for pound, this will go down as the THREAD OF THE YEAR on Sosuave.com

Aren't you the same idiot whose posted multiple rant threads about how you go off on women and are on the verge of wanting to beat them up? Stop pretending you are bitter asf, you also admitted in several occasions that you do want an LTR and possibly marriage (if it wasn't so screwed up) but the fact is you are bitter stop lying

If I want financial advise Tenacity you are a great resource, if it's relationship advise you definitely wouldn't even register as someone with a worthwhile opinion